What can I do to strengthen my application? Possible red flag.

[psammoma_body]

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Hello everyone,

I'm IMG from European medical school, interested in residency in pathology.

I have a couple of years of clinical inactivity after medical school for the family reasons. Is this a big red flag? I'm aware it certainly is in other specialties, but I would think patholgy is more forgiving? I don't think medical school and clinical rotations prepare you much for residency in pathology anyway.

I've recently taken Step 1 and 2, with scores falling between 230-240 for Step 1, and 240-250 for Step 2. My next step is taking Step 2 CS, as well as Step 3, as soon as possible, but certainly before applications are due in September 2018. (I would like to get Step 3 out of the way, because I want to focus solely on learning pathology during residency; besides, I doubt path residency will do much in preparing me for Step 3.)

What else do you think would be the most helpful in strengthening my application?

Observerships? Research?

I have yet to look up how to find observerships. I assume is not easy, especially because I'm geographically limited due to my husband's work and very small kids. But I will absolutely do my best to find one, because my exposure to field of pathology has been limited to Europe. Also, I assume LORs from US pathologists would be of a great help, and further show my commitment to the specialty. What do you think is adequate lenght of such observership(s)?

Furthermore, I don't have any research experience. If I get involved now, I'm not sure if I can do any meaningful research and produce results/papers in relatively short period of time (before applications in September). Or maybe I'm wrong?

(Another thing I'm working on are my English skills. English is not my native language, and I'm currently taking classes to improve my speaking and writing skills. I understand that in pathology written words are the main product of your work, and also communication with other doctors and co-workers is crucial, so I want to be as fluent and professional as possible.)

What do you think are my chances of getting interview invites?

Thanks!

 

[tiredguy]

Meaningful observerships, the more official/formal the experience the better, with LOR's from pathologists. Research might help but not without strong evidence that you are committed to pathology and practicing pathologists can vouch for you.

 

[Pathbusiness]

Couple of years is normal for IMG's. You have good scores. Try to get some LOR's and observership. Almost any pathology program can use grossing help!!

 

[psammoma_body]

Thank you, I appreciate your answers.

Meaningful observerships, the more official/formal the experience the better, with LOR's from pathologists. Research might help but not without strong evidence that you are committed to pathology and practicing pathologists can vouch for you.

Yeah, I figured observerships with LORs > reaserch.

Couple of years is normal for IMG's. You have good scores. Try to get some LOR's and observership. Almost any pathology program can use grossing help!!

This all sounds encouraging (except the last sentence haha).



What level programs do you think I have chances of getting interview invites to? It's hard to gauge my chances, but I really hope I can match somewhere other than so-called IMG mills, given the current job market situation.

 

[Pathbusiness]

You can match into a good university program. Do the leg work to see which ones have a mix of IMG's and AMG's. Almost every program has to fill their spots with IMG's these days.

 

[Euchromatin]

It sounds to me like you are doing the best you can in your circumstances to prepare for the 2018 application cycle. I think it is great you have steps 1 and 2 CK done and will have CS and step 3 taken care of soon. I think that will be very reassuring to program directors. Kudos to you for continuing to improve your English fluency as well. I agree with others that observership(s) will likely be of more value in your current situation vs trying to set up a research project specifically. If an attending you meet does incidentally offer to let you help with a feasible project, all the better (even if you don't end up with first author publication, presumably that mentor would get to know you and would write a strong letter). I would recommend trying to set up observerships of at least one month (the typical length of most U.S. medical school "rotations") at places you are planning to apply to for residency. Your best bet would probably be to just to directly contact pathology departments with residency programs in your area. You could start by talking to/emailing the program secretary/administrative staff, but, as your situation is a little bit outside the norm, I would anticipate you will probably need to speak to either the residency program director or maybe the medical student rotation coordinator (if there is such a person and it isn't the PD)

As long as you pass CS and step 3 (no one really cares about the scores on those two), make a good impression in person at your observerships, get a few strong LORs from US pathologists, and offer a little bit of explanation/justification for your training gap in your personal statement, I would anticipate you will get invites to most pathology residency programs you choose to apply to. Depending on how many other applicants they get, it is possible a few of the big name places might not offer an invite, but a surprising number of traditionally prestigious places have not completely filled during the match in the last few years (and they often have large programs with many spots available), so you might have a shot in some of the top tier programs too.

 

[psammoma_body]

It sounds to me like you are doing the best you can in your circumstances to prepare for the 2018 application cycle. I think it is great you have steps 1 and 2 CK done and will have CS and step 3 taken care of soon. I think that will be very reassuring to program directors. Kudos to you for continuing to improve your English fluency as well. I agree with others that observership(s) will likely be of more value in your current situation vs trying to set up a research project specifically. If an attending you meet does incidentally offer to let you help with a feasible project, all the better (even if you don't end up with first author publication, presumably that mentor would get to know you and would write a strong letter). I would recommend trying to set up observerships of at least one month (the typical length of most U.S. medical school "rotations") at places you are planning to apply to for residency. Your best bet would probably be to just to directly contact pathology departments with residency programs in your area. You could start by talking to/emailing the program secretary/administrative staff, but, as your situation is a little bit outside the norm, I would anticipate you will probably need to speak to either the residency program director or maybe the medical student rotation coordinator (if there is such a person and it isn't the PD)

As long as you pass CS and step 3 (no one really cares about the scores on those two), make a good impression in person at your observerships, get a few strong LORs from US pathologists, and offer a little bit of explanation/justification for your training gap in your personal statement, I would anticipate you will get invites to most pathology residency programs you choose to apply to. Depending on how many other applicants they get, it is possible a few of the big name places might not offer an invite, but a surprising number of traditionally prestigious places have not completely filled during the match in the last few years (and they often have large programs with many spots available), so you might have a shot in some of the top tier programs too.

Thank you for taking the time to reply and give me this valuable advice. I was contemplating how to best go around finding observerships and who to actually talk to, so your post has been really helpful.

Even tough I'm aware that pathology is not that competitive, I have to say I'm actually a little suprised that you guys suggest that I will have no trouble matching, even to some good programs. (Of course, provided I leave good impression in person, obtain strong LORs which will attest to my commitment, work ethic and interest, and as long as I do well on the interview day - show good interpersonal skills and that I'm nice, enthusiastic, and humble person.) For example, looking at 2017 Match data, 33% of independent applicants (all non-US seniors) who put pathology as their only choice went unmatched..

 

[psammoma_body]

You can match into a good university program. Do the leg work to see which ones have a mix of IMG's and AMG's. Almost every program has to fill their spots with IMG's these days.

Thanks, that exactly what I did, and I see that even some of what can be considered prestigious programs have a good amount of IMGs.. although, so far I've seen that almost all of them did some kind of research. I'll keep looking..

Do you think it's a good idea to contact current residents of the programs I'm interested in?

 

[Euchromatin]

Do you think it's a good idea to contact current residents of the programs I'm interested in?

I wouldn't recommend it. Although it varies depending on the program, I don't think the residents will generally have much influence over whether you would be selected/allowed to do an observership and I think cold emailing a random resident/chief resident would not be the ideal channel to use. If you already know someone who is a path resident somewhere, that would obviously be an exception and perhaps they could be a contact point for you to get more info about the way that particular place sets up its rotations, etc. It is possible the department could also refer you to a resident to get additional info/help (especially if you are not from the area) after your rotation is set up, but I wouldn't count on that either.

Once you get an observership/rotation then you will presumably have plenty of opportunities to interact with the residents in person while you are there. From what I can recall when I was a resident, not many applicants contacted us via email (or whatever) outside of their in-person rotations and interviews. Because the rare applicants that did email us were typically in the bottom tier, I, personally, came to associate getting emails (usually rather short and generic messages to thank me for my time during their rotation and/or interview) with the most struggling candidates and subsequently felt they smacked of desperation. This could just be my personal bias and perhaps others have different perspectives, though.

 

[MSTP18]

Definitely pursue step 3 if you have the time. I repeatedly heard programs tell the IMGs at interview day that passing step 3 prior to residency helps with visa status and thus ranking. I can't offer you any details because, as an American, I didn't really pay much attention to visa talk. Maybe someone else with some knowledge/experience on the matter can chime in?

 

[psammoma_body]

I wouldn't recommend it. .... /QUOTE]

This totally makes sense. And I can see how you got to associate these emails with bottom-tier applicants. The idea of contacting residents has just popped in my head, without really thinking it through. I guess my idea was to contact IMGs in the program to see how they got there, and maybe find out are they happy in the program, what is their typical day like, etc. But now that I think about it, I don't see the point of cold-emailing. As you said, there will be plenty of opportunity to interact with them during rotation, and also on interview day or pre/post-interview social event, if the program has one, so I will have a chance to get a feel for the program then.

 

[psammoma_body]

Definitely pursue step 3 if you have the time. I repeatedly heard programs tell the IMGs at interview day that passing step 3 prior to residency helps with visa status and thus ranking. I can't offer you any details because, as an American, I didn't really pay much attention to visa talk. Maybe someone else with some knowledge/experience on the matter can chime in?

Thanks for your input. That's great to hear that you heard first-hand that program directors value Step 3. I've just started studying for it, and hopefully will have a date of the exam soon. Yes, Step 3 is necessary for getting H1B visa (but not J1 visa). But I would appreciate any additional info if someone has more experience.

 

[Leismania]

Hi!
I am IMG, graduated from Medical School in 2014, currently doing Residency in Biochemistry in my home country. (Since July 2018)
I wish to apply for Pathology Residency in US. To follow the path, I've received the ECFMG Certification, with Step 1 score 256, step 2 CK 251, PASS in CS. I plan to give Step 3 by May 2019, do 3-4 months Observerships in Pathology for good LORs'. So far I don't have any USCE.
Can anyone help me understand whats the best way to approach to get a Observership in Pathology?

Thank you for reading this. Any little input can be valuable to me. Your situation seems similar to me, upto an extent. Could you share how you went along with it?

 

[Unty]

Email every chair in the country. Tell them how much you love Pathology. Emphasize LOVE. Tell them you LOVE Pathology more than your wife. Tell them your scores and tell them how smart you are. Tell them you love Pathology one more time. Tell them you are willing to do what it takes to get your foot Into their department.

Play the odds and hope one person will reply back.

 

[LADoc00]

Email every chair in the country. Tell them how much you love Pathology. Emphasize LOVE. Tell them you LOVE Pathology more than your wife. Tell them your scores and tell them how smart you are. Tell them you love Pathology one more time. Tell them you are willing to do what it takes to get your foot Into their department.

Play the odds and hope one person will reply back.

Dunno. No one really loves Pathology that much, some interest? sure. But this isnt the equivalent of playing on the Golden State Warriors or being some legendary Adult Film Star...I would more emphasize your incredible scut abilities, go the "ultimate minion" route like Taj from Van Wilder.

 

[Unty]

lol I was kidding but seriously email and make phone calls to program coordinators would be good first start unless you know a resident in a program who can vouch for you.

 

[psammoma_body]

Your scores are excellent. Take Step 3 as soon as you can. For multiple reasons, a lot of program directors love to see that you cleared it out of the way.

With scores like this, you will get interview invitations, even without US path experience. And you can match into a good university program. Assuming you don't have any major red flags, and that you have at least something in your CV that shows that you're committed to path.

However, I do think that it's is a good idea to do an observership or two, especially in the place you would like to match at. It would also be an opportunity for you to see what you're getting yourself into, and you can potentially make some useful contacts during that time. Also, with observership in US under your belt you will have a better understanding of what you're looking for in a residency program and which questions to ask during your interviews. Send me a pm for more details.

Best of luck! 🙂

 

[psammoma_body]

Also do you know any graduates from your medical school/home country that are doing path in the US? They can be good sources of information for you 😉

 

[deleted314957]

Have you given any thought to practicing at home?

 

[Leismania]

Email every chair in the country. Tell them how much you love Pathology. Emphasize LOVE. Tell them you LOVE Pathology more than your wife. Tell them your scores and tell them how smart you are. Tell them you love Pathology one more time. Tell them you are willing to do what it takes to get your foot Into their department.

Play the odds and hope one person will reply back.

I'm mailing various faculties in all the Pathology Departments I find. Not much success so far, however. A friend suggested Global Observerships Programs and i've applied for that too, At international Medical Institute, Miami. Just hoping someone may give a consideration to my request. As far as my interest is concerned, I'm genuinely interested to further research in any sub-component in Pathology.

Have you given any thought to practicing at home?

Thats another option. But in my country, in fields such as Pathology, Biochemistry, that competitiveness, that real interest is lacking. I belive if I can get in US, I can do better justice to myself.

 

[Leismania]

Your scores are excellent. Take Step 3 as soon as you can. For multiple reasons, a lot of program directors love to see that you cleared it out of the way.

With scores like this, you will get interview invitations, even without US path experience. And you can match into a good university program. Assuming you don't have any major red flags, and that you have at least something in your CV that shows that you're committed to path.

However, I do think that it's is a good idea to do an observership or two, especially in the place you would like to match at. It would also be an opportunity for you to see what you're getting yourself into, and you can potentially make some useful contacts during that time. Also, with observership in US under your belt you will have a better understanding of what you're looking for in a residency program and which questions to ask during your interviews. Send me a pm for more details.

Best of luck! 🙂

I'm thinking along similar lines. And yeah, thanks for that, I'd like to know more about the small details, and obstacles along the path, as much as possible. How one set of progression may be better when compared to another and such.