What can I do?

[Goatsie]

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Alas, another "what-are-my-chances thread". PLEASE PLEASE give me some advice, I'm quit panicked...

Situation: I'm about to graduate from a public university (BA-biochemistry/chemistry); low gpa (2.75); volunteering in hospital (oncology/post-op); have research experience; getting old (early 20s); haven't taken the MCAT, yet; a non-traditional student (in the sense that I'm a first generation college graduate)

Question: What can I do to get into med school? How do post bac programs help me get into m-school? What's the difference between DO and allo? What are my chances (I don't know if I can take an answer of "none")?

I've read that many people have a low gpa situation such as myself and it would be a tremendous help if someone could answer some of my questions and perhaps give some advice and give some encouraging statements.

Thank you in advance, I appreciate ALL constructive comments.

 

[DrMidlife]

Alas, another "what-are-my-chances thread". PLEASE PLEASE give me some advice, I'm quit panicked...

Don't panic. There are MUCH worse things than not going to med school. Academic credentials aside, if there's ANYTHING you want to do as much as medicine, it's probably smarter to do the other thing. And if you decide to go for it, great.

What's the difference between DO and allo?

DO is what you are more likely to get into, starting from a 2.75. DOs and MDs get arguably the same education and training. DO schools are arguably more forgiving/accepting of nontrads. (DOs also study OMT/OMM, which is the basis of chiropractic, which is why DO is arguably controversial.) DOs have arguably fewer practice opportunities. Some states, and some countries, don't recognize DO. There are fewer DO schools in the US.

All those "arguably"s should be your clue that DO vs. MD is arguably the #1 running SDN argument.

Somebody's going to mention the Caribbean, which is where you can become the equivalent of a foreign medical graduate if you have money or credit.

getting old (early 20s);

I'm 41 and applying this year. If you couldn't literally be the grandparent of one of the 18yo kids applying this year, then shut up about old.

a non-traditional student (in the sense that I'm a first generation college graduate)

This is very good. Some schools will view you as underrepresented and give you more wiggle room with numbers.

volunteering in hospital (oncology/post-op); have research experience;

This is also very good. Keep doing both - build up multiple years of involvement. Look for other community activities that you enjoy and can describe with a passion. Try to get your name on a paper, and make sure you can describe what you worked on.

haven't taken the MCAT, yet;

Now might be the time, meaning this winter or spring. You want to have completed bio/chem/ochem/physics, which I assume you have, fairly close to test time, so that you don't have to review. With your GPA, you probably need a prep course.

Your MCAT score is going to be a very important companion number to your GPA. It can't fix your GPA. But a strong MCAT will give you credibility. Strong in my mind is over 30, preferably over 35.

I'm about to graduate from a public university (BA-biochemistry/chemistry); low gpa (2.75);

OK, so 2.75 is low. Schools also look at your science GPA, so you need to know what that is as well. Note for the record that undergrad GPA is separate from graduate GPA, so you arguably can't fix your GPA by going to grad school.

You might be able to get into a Caribbean school with sub-3.0. You might be able to get into DO with sub-3.0. But the frank question is whether you are ready for the rigors of med school, where your classmates got a whole lot of A's to your B's and C's.

You can take more classes to improve your GPA. Note that I said improve, not fix. If you do the math, you'll see that you will need to spend years getting above a 3.0 or 3.2, and a 3.5 is probably the upper limit. It's also a mistake to plan on getting a 4.0 "from now on." You might find, like I have, that you can't just turn a switch and start getting a 4.0: it doesn't mean you're not smart, but it might mean that you have to truly suffer while your classmates don't, or that you need to work with a tutor/coach/shrink. You might not have a 4.0 in you. Maybe you do.

With GPA damage that can't be undone (which you and I both have), the only real saving grace is to show a strong, consistent, upward trend. That is ALWAYS the story when a low GPA candidate gets in.

If that BA is the teaching option instead of the grad-school-prep BS option, then you may need to take the harder versions of ochem and bio than you took.

Situation: I'm about to graduate from a public university (BA-biochemistry/chemistry); low gpa (2.75); What can I do to get into med school? How do post bac programs help me get into m-school?

If you've already taken the med school prereqs (genchem, ochem, bio, physics), then you can't take a traditional premed postbac.

You can always find a school that will let you take more classes, to show GPA improvement. You can consider getting a second bachelors.

You can think about an SMP (special masters program), which puts you through the first year of med school to demonstrate that you're a worthy applicant. This is the do-or-die, last-ditch option for allo, because everybody in an SMP has just as much to prove, and if you don't win against your classmates, you might lose everything.

In your shoes, I would push to get ready for the MCAT, and based on that, see where I'm at. If I'm happy to do DO, and my MCAT score is 30ish, I'd apply DO. Otherwise, I'd graduate and take time off. I'd almost certainly do a Peace Corps gig, gain a strong second language, and then see where I'm at when I return. If I still want to go for medicine, I'd probably start a second bachelors and put a strong application together.

My $.02. Best of luck to you, and keep us posted.

 

[Goatsie]

Much obliged to your response. After reading it (over and over), my chances seem stark at best, but the damage to my gpa has been done and like you said (and I agree) is to show an upward trend.

If I may ask you, have you been accepted into a school? What did you (or anyone else reading) do when you were in my shoes (did you join the PC or did you take time off; and what did you do with your time off)? As for a 2nd language, I am fluent in an East Asian language (I prefer not to reveal my ethnicity).

Lets suppose I finished school (like I'm going to soon), what are some things that I can do immediately, to work towards med school? MCAT. Check. Look for SMPs? Re-do some science courses?

I would like try the "allo" route.

Edit: deleted some poorly worded statements

 

[QofQuimica]

Much obliged to your response. After reading it (over and over), my chances seem stark at best, but the damage to my gpa has been done and like you said (and I agree) is to show an upward trend.

If I may ask you, have you been accepted into a school? What did you (or anyone else reading) do when you were in my shoes (did you join the PC or did you take time off; and what did you do with your time off)? As for a 2nd language, I am fluent in an East Asian language (I prefer not to reveal my ethnicity).

Lets suppose I finished school (like I'm going to soon), what are some things that I can do immediately, to work towards med school? MCAT. Check. Look for SMPs? Re-do some science courses?

Also, it seems like DOs are less desirable, so, like anyone else, would probably want to go the "Allo" route.

If I were in your shoes, I'd start by educating myself properly about all of the options. Your out-of-hand dismissal of the DO route based upon second-hand perceptions does not suggest to me that you really know very much about DOs. Considering that you have a 2.75 GPA, you're really not in a position to be obstinate about only doing things your way or no way. I'm not saying you can't possibly redeem yourself, but you have a long road ahead of you, my friend.

FYI, DOs are equivalent to MDs in this country. They do the same jobs, specialize in the same fields, etc. Most patients will not know or care whether you have an MD or a DO; nor will your colleagues. Even if you want to work in an academic center, it can be done via the DO route. There are even schools that offer DO/PhD programs for people interested in research.

You basically have three options for becoming a physician: attend an American allopathic school (get an MD), attend an American osteopathic school (get a DO), or attend an international school. What you choose to do will depend on two things: your ultimate goals, and how much time, effort and money you're willing to put into making yourself an acceptable candidate for medical school. If your goal is to be a physician practicing in the US, then I recommend that you choose one of the first two options. Of these two, the DO option is significantly easier for someone in your position, because AOMCAS allows grade substitutions, while AMCAS does not. In other words, say you took physics I and made a C. You retake it and make an A. AMCAS will average them together, giving you a net B. In contrast, AOMCAS will substitute the A for the C, giving you a net A. Clearly, you can raise your GPA to an acceptable level much higher and much faster via the DO route.

The other thing you should do is to find yourself a mentor. As a first-generation college student, you more than most people need to find someone who can guide you through this process and help prepare you for the future. There is probably an office of diversity at your college. You should go there and make an appointment with a counselor to get help. Best of to you. 🙂

 

[Goatsie]

I chose my words wrongly and apologize if I may have offended anyone. I did not mean to suggest that DOs are less than MDs nor did I intend to imply such.

I don't know much about D.O. (actually, nothing, before I even found this forum). I will be wiser in the future.

As for what to do next; the consensus seems to be that I need to up my gpa. Agree?

 

[Meatwad]

As for what to do next; the consensus seems to be that I need to up my gpa. Agree?

I think that goes without saying, yes.

Get it up to at least a 3.0, then do an SMP. Coupled with a killer MCAT score, and good ECs, and you could probably get into some DO schools, and maybe if the stars are aligned for ya, an MD school.

 

[Meatwad]

Just my 2 cents on the DO thing:

If you have the oppurtunity to get into an osteopathic school, take it. The education is great, like others have mentioned, and your future will not be limited because of it. The only thing it could possibly damage is your ego (i.e. you feel you are a failure without the initials MD after your name). If you are that attached to two letters, this probably isn't the right field for you to begin with.

With that said, search for match lists of osteopathic schools around these fora. A match list is a list (ha, obviously) that lists (redundant of me, eh?) what specialty graduates match into and where they go (hospital's name and location). Every year, students from MD schools match into dermatology, radiology, otolaryngology, urology, etc. Ditto for DO students. A really nice aspect of osteopathic medicine is they can apply to allopathic residencies, as well as osteopathic residencies. MDs can only apply to MD residencies. This could change in the future, but this has been the way it has worked up until now.

 

[QofQuimica]

I chose my words wrongly and apologize if I may have offended anyone. I did not mean to suggest that DOs are less than MDs nor did I intend to imply such.

I don't know much about D.O. (actually, nothing, before I even found this forum). I will be wiser in the future.

As for what to do next; the consensus seems to be that I need to up my gpa. Agree?

I don't know if you were referring to me; if so, I wasn't offended. I'm actually an MD student. 😉 But I can tell you that at my highly research-oriented school, there are plenty of DOs, including some of my profs. The only way I know the difference is by looking them up on their dept. staff pages.

Basically, med school is a means to an end. It's not an end in and of itself. What I mean is, when you say your goal is to go to med school, what you presumably really mean is that your goal is to become a physician. Med school is only how you get there; no one wants to be a professional med student, not even me. As long as you end up where you want to be when it's all over, it really doesn't matter too much how pretty the vehicle you rode in was. 🙂