What can you do clinically as an ABD?

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futureapppsy2

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This is just out of curiosity... I have a friend whose been ABD (all but dissertation) for a year and half now, and I was wondering to what extent a student who is ABD could legally, ethically, and practically perform clinical work at this point given the lack of both a doctorate and official "student" status. I do know that after completing her internship, she was able to stay on for a year as supervised "post-doc" at the site, but I can't imagine someone who doesn't have a doctorate would qualify for many (if any) outside post-doc positions.
 
This is just out of curiosity... I have a friend whose been ABD (all but dissertation) for a year and half now, and I was wondering to what extent a student who is ABD could legally, ethically, and practically perform clinical work at this point given the lack of both a doctorate and official "student" status. I do know that after completing her internship, she was able to stay on for a year as supervised "post-doc" at the site, but I can't imagine someone who doesn't have a doctorate would qualify for many (if any) outside post-doc positions.

I know someone who is ABD and currently working as a senior clinical staff at a university counseling center. He's been working there for two years and I believe he's still not done with his dissertation.
 
Wow, I thought all post-docs required completion of internship AND dissertation. Apparently, not always the case....?

This is just out of curiosity... I have a friend whose been ABD (all but dissertation) for a year and half now, and I was wondering to what extent a student who is ABD could legally, ethically, and practically perform clinical work at this point given the lack of both a doctorate and official "student" status. I do know that after completing her internship, she was able to stay on for a year as supervised "post-doc" at the site, but I can't imagine someone who doesn't have a doctorate would qualify for many (if any) outside post-doc positions.
 
Wow, I thought all post-docs required completion of internship AND dissertation. Apparently, not always the case....?

How can you be a POST-doc, if you haven't received your doctorate?
 
A lot of college counseling center jobs will take an ABD applicant. Of course, these positions usually don't pay well (under 40k).
 
Apparently, they let her stay on using one of the (informal) "post-doc" positions they offer to some of their interns each year, even though she hadn't yet completed her dissertation.

Despite it being called a "post-doc," she would not be able to count any of those hours towards licensure. I did the same thing. I still had to do a formal post-doc to get all of my hours even after the informal position.
 
Despite it being called a "post-doc," she would not be able to count any of those hours towards licensure. I did the same thing. I still had to do a formal post-doc to get all of my hours even after the informal position.

Yep. The hours ended up counting for nothing official, really.
 
Yep. The hours ended up counting for nothing official, really.
That is a trap for a lot of people who can't get their research done.....they get stuck in limbo. A buddy of mine was going on his 9th year (History), and his department was really on him about finishing. I can't imagine being 6-7+ years in and still not having it done. I'm on my 6th year now, and I can't wait to finally have something to show for it.
 
It is possible to work in some state, county or municipal systems as a "mental health practitioner, unlicensed" and you are legally practicing under the supervision of licensed staff (sometimes co-signatory is required). As an ABD, you can be in master's level's positions, probably with some community based organizations, as well. You will however,be competing in the hiring process with folks with terminal master's degrees who may be seen as more likely to stay in the position, so they may be preferred at time of hire.

What you don't want to do is get into a clinical job that is so exhausting or interesting that you don't have time and energy to get the dissertation done! I've sometimes encouraged ABDs at the end of post-doc to take a non-clinical job that has some income potential (even tending bar or waiting table!) and hours that will help them get done, rather than an all-consuming clinical job or "psych assistantship" that will allow them to continue procrastinating on getting the big paper done. Everybody's different--but the further you get from "school" the harder it is to get finished...
 
This brings up the issue of "how valuable is the dissertation...really?" Unlike most in my department, my advisor emplors us to use archival data and not to collect our own data unless we are gunning for hardcore academia. Even then she argues that it not really a big deal what you do. Obviously, this is because collecting data often adds many months, if not a years in some cases. Not too mention the headache of data entry if you have alot of variables. I know for some the dissertation is a "life's work" that follows their long time interests and may even be the start of their academic research for the future. However, for many, including myself, it is simply a valuable learning process in which the actual product wont amount to much, or at least is secondary to what the process taught you. There is no ticker tape parade when its done (although you often think there should be) and it likley that it not many people will read it frankly. I've been rambing and kinda lost my point, I know. I think my point was that i wish some faculty would evolve and be more flexible with the dissertation. i know some faculty push and push their students to do this and do that, collect more participants, etc. I just wish it were simply viewed as a capstone project/paper that allows a the student to move on. I think if people, including faculty, were a little more realistic and humble about what the dissertation really is, we wouldn't have people taking 4-5 years to write them and shooting their careers in the foot because of it. No dissertation is worth that in my opnion, especialy if your are going to be a full time practitioner.
 
There should be a designation "ABI," for those who have finished dissertation but are waiting patiently for internship match. It is more humiliating than ABD because one has no control over the Match.
 
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