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What Constitutes URM?
Started by entdreams47
You can check both races. Each school can decide for themselves if they consider mixed race students to be underrepresented in medicine.
If you identify with a group whose representation in medicine is significantly less than an under-served population in our society, you may be considered UiM. Each school decides who is UiM for themselves.
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Just be forewarned that this may very well bite you on the ass if you lack a demonstrated commitment to underserved communities and/or communities of color, and you show up for interviews and the interviewees see this white kid. it wouldn't be the first time it happened.
To me, 25% AA doesn't count as URM.
To me, 25% AA doesn't count as URM.
Hi Goro, Why would you say the commitment to underserved communities and/or communities of color "validates" URM status? If 100% AA would you hold same opinion? What if 25% but very dark complexion/hair? At what percentage does this become a requirement in your opinion when not applying to a mission based program? Judging URM status seems so murky to me, maybe everyone should give a DNA sample🙂
Go away. Don't start that garbage.
So many white kids try to game the system by checking the URM box that with some candidates, you have to walk the walk and not merely talk the talk.
One of my SDN advisees had >20 IIs and 19 rejections, due to this very scenario.
One of my SDN advisees had >20 IIs and 19 rejections, due to this very scenario.
It's not murky at all. In fact blacks and Mexicans face discrimination in similar ways that an interviewer would judge your status, with their eyes. All Goro is saying is that is a blonde white girl walks in an starts talking about her life as a Mexican/Black girl then there might be issues.
He is also saying that just having a skin color isn't a free pass, you need to have demonstrated service to your community. Med schools don't just admit blacks and Mexicans because they are that race, they do it with an expectation that they might service that community better in medicine (which traditionally is underserved otherwise).
I am of mixed race myself, technically speaking. However, I was raised white, look white, and identify as white. Although I could've claimed URM, I chose not to, and still proclaim myself as non-URM for purposes related to this forum.
Because of my name, an interviewer who was URM asked me about my ancestry. I told my story, and when they asked me why I didn't put down URM status, I told them that I didn't believe in using my ancestry for the sole purpose of gaining an advantage, and that I'd rather let my achievements and work do the talking. They told me that that was one of the most honest answers they had ever received. Subsequently, I did get accepted.
If you talk the talk, be ready to walk the walk. You absolutely do not want to come off as disingenuous.
Because of my name, an interviewer who was URM asked me about my ancestry. I told my story, and when they asked me why I didn't put down URM status, I told them that I didn't believe in using my ancestry for the sole purpose of gaining an advantage, and that I'd rather let my achievements and work do the talking. They told me that that was one of the most honest answers they had ever received. Subsequently, I did get accepted.
If you talk the talk, be ready to walk the walk. You absolutely do not want to come off as disingenuous.
I actually had a question about this. I'm 100% URM, but my community doesn't really exist in my college town. Instead, I've worked heavily with the homeless in a clinical setting. Do you think that that will reflect my desire to work in an 'underserved' area well, if I state it as such?
Wait what? Your advisee had 20 interview invites and 19 post-interview rejections?! Sorry but this is rather shocking, and I would believe it has also to do with poor interview skills.
I am in a similar situation and yes I think it may still reflect that.
oh so 20 secondaries and 19 pre-interview rejections you mean.
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But one acceptance 😉
So does a person who is 100% black and is privileged also get the advantages of being a URM? Or is being a URM also tied with being disadvantaged as well?
Don't think they are tied...I know so many Nigerians who are privileged/wealthy out the wazooo but bc of the way Race is perceived in America they are considered urm and assumed to be disadvantaged among other stereotypes....and on top of that we are grouped into being African American instead of Nigerian American or just Black which complicates things even more.
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From my understanding those two are separate entities.
Underrepresented minority is not the same as disadvantaged. You can be disadvantaged and part of an over-represented ethnicity
@Goro Hypothetical: If President Obama had a twin brother and if that brother married a WASP, could/should their kids identify racially as black/African-American and white on the AMCAS?
Should such a person deny the ethnicity of one of their four grandparents?
Should such a person deny the ethnicity of one of their four grandparents?
Wouldn't they mark down both? 50% AA and 50% White-anglo-saxan
This is very interesting actually as I think about this situation from a latino american perspective..... Years ago I am sure that anyone from latin heritage would be considered URM... But now I know that Cubans are not considered URM because they were able to establish themselves here in the US, while Mexican-Americans and some others are still URM... I wonder if this same thing will happen with Black community. I think a big step would be deciphering between Nigerian American/African-American and other subsets, just as latin americans have done
On the AMCAS, you can self-identify by checking as many boxes as you wish. I don't believe there is any requirement to check percentages. In this case, the applicant has one black grandparent (from Kenya) and three white grandparents.
@Goro says this shouldn't count as URM
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there are other groups in the US that as face value "look white" but identify as black....they are known as Creoles and actually used to pass for white to enter into certain parts of society ....I think it just matters who self identify as. For my college application I put other and wrote Nigerian American
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😕😕 well, having the money to attend all 20 interviews is something. but it's sad to have that most of that wasted in the end.
It's not hard to decipher. They are culturally different. I grew up in a very Nigerian household....my name is Nigerian and most of us are raised to be pretty nationalistic and there are tons of Nigerian milieus across the country. Actually I remember being taught to say I was from Nigeria and not America.
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Yeah I make sure to list Cuban-American because that is what my grandparents and mother have always considered us. If a medical school does not consider that condones URM status/would add diversity to their class then hopefully I can do that through my accomplishments and personality 🙂
I understand they are culturally different, very much so. But I think any subset from Africa would be considered URM while Latino countries do not have the same
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Well see the thing is...an important justification for AA is that these people will go back to their communities and serve...and also relate better to patients of their own race. If you look totally white, I don't think a black person would relate (a big part of the relating comes from the observable skin color; you don't have all day to talk about your backgrounds etc) any better to you than a Caucasian doctor.
Since you are 75% Italian, I can bet money that you haven't affiliated much with the black community.
Since you are 75% Italian, I can bet money that you haven't affiliated much with the black community.
I agree. It's about Selfidentification. Bc from an African perspective they would still be considered Kenyan even if they are mixed or one of their parents is white. I have cousins who are mixed and they are raised to think they are Nigerian esp if their father is Nigerian, didn't matter if their mom were white or any other nationality.
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Would be 25% AA and 75% white
Oh, applicants can check whatever box they want. I'm more interested in the perception of the Adcom and interviewers when they see the candidate walk into the room. As @gyngyn has mentioned, people have been disingenuous about his, and it's blown up in their faces.
For example, what reaction would these candidates get?
For example, what reaction would these candidates get?
Reminds me of an application that came in from an applicant from a very, very affluent suburb of a large American city (you know the type). Self identified as American Indian (Native American) and white. That might have been the kiss of death but something like a 3.89/39 turned the tide in the applicant's favor.
Of course, given that schools can be sanctioned by LCME (accrediting agency) for having too little diversity in its student body and faculty, I would bet that some schools will count anyone who checks a box as URM if they are also good enough to get admitted.
Of course, given that schools can be sanctioned by LCME (accrediting agency) for having too little diversity in its student body and faculty, I would bet that some schools will count anyone who checks a box as URM if they are also good enough to get admitted.
Oh, applicants can check whatever box they want. I'm more interested in the perception of the Adcom and interviewers when they see the candidate walk into the room. As @gyngyn has mentioned, people have been disingenuous about his, and it's blown up in their faces.
For example, what reaction would these candidates get?
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Black folks can spot Black folks (usually). Those last two are clearly Black. (And I love the first woman on suits!) How would a non- black adcom see them? As anything BUT black, haha.
Ah, with 8 years of hearing about his damn birth certificate, I forgot he was half white. Oops.
Your average white employer isnt going to be able to discern between a "poor" black and a "rich" black
I know black ppl that look like this....I know Nigerians that look like this and some have green eyes too....actually when I go to Nigeria ppl think I'm mixed [emoji848] bc I guess I don't fit the stereotype bc I'm like very very fair among other features. It's such a hard call. The first girl is mixed btw she's half black and I love her on suits!!
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Ok. [emoji849] [emoji53] what is your point? They can't discern btw a poor white person and a rich white person either.
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I know, I've watched suits forever. I just don't put her in the "clearly Black to Black people category".
Black folks come in alllllll shades. You made me think of Jidenna (sp). A lot of Jamacians have fair skin as well.
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Yup Jidenna is a great example!! We are from the same ethnic group in Nigeria and a lot of us look mixed/ambiguous.
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I dont think white people have a history of racial discrimination against white people. (unless we get into the whole Irish thing).
ok. I'm going to leave this here because I don't want to go into any debate about race on SDN. It's not worth it. Thank you for your input though.
Feel free. I have personally experienced employers in my hometown with blanket policies that they do not hire blacks on principle. This isnt a thing that people make up. Its not an imagined reality.
The point is that if someone walks up who clearly doesnt look black or mexican then its hard to imagine them facing racial discrimination.
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Ok. I am going to respectfully decline bc I think you are trolling.
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Funny you say that.
Another anecdote was in my church. We have about 100 people each sunday and I happen to be the only non-white (Mexican) in the membership (when I still went to church). One day in my adolescent years a black family decided to come to the church one sunday, the first time I believe that had happened.
They came a few weeks and then around 4 weeks later they never came back again. At a later time, my grandfather told me that some of the other church members confronted the pastor and told him "if those blankers' children keep coming to sunday school, we will stop donating to the church."
This was in rural NC. That instance kind of opened my eyes on why the blacks/mexicans in my community did not go to the church that I went to. Previous to that I thought blacks in my community simply werent christians.
Lucky for me I as adopted into a fairly upstanding white family so I am well accepted in the church (also im only half mexican and fair skinned).
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Omg.
Do you honestly think this doesnt happen all.the.time in rural communities? You can keep trying to pass me off as a troll but I have seen this **** with my own eyes.
