What course should I start with?

[paperaeroplane]

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I was recently accepted to a post bac informal program at Portland State, and I was wondering what course I should take over the summer. I have not taken any previous science or math courses since high school, so I need to take all the pre med courses. I am not in a big rush to finish in a year. I just want to make sure I do well in my classes. They offer General Chemistry which lasts for about 2 months...I also need to take Calculus, Bio, Physics, and Organic Chem. For General Chemistry, though, I am not sure if I need to take a prereq class. I took Chemistry in high school, but that was so long ago, and I don't remember anything. They have a prep class for Gen Chem and Physics in the summer. Would it be advisable to take that before I take Gen Chem, and take Gen Chem in the fall? Also, should I take one or two classes over the summer? And if so, which two classes?

Thanks so much for your input.

 

[DrMidlife]

Somebody is going to tell you that you can take the whole year of bio with labs during the summer. Don't. Too much too fast. Maybe next summer, if you must. Same goes for chem/physics/ochem that's offered in a condensed summer format.

I like the looks of the chem/physics prep class. That's plenty. If you want to do more, then I'd suggest more math or writing. Math 111 looks good. Any class where you can have to turn in writing, and where you get feedback, is a good use of time. If nobody's paying attention to how many classes you take this summer, then it doesn't matter. Make the best use of your time - do whatever is going to set you up to succeed.

Also look at the Chem 299 headstart class that's in September (probably the week before fall quarter starts). These are always a good idea.

When you say "gen chem is 2 months" are you talking about starting chem this summer? Not a bad idea, if you think you're ready to do well.

In planning ahead, you have 4 subjects, a year each, with labs. Keep in mind that you need to finish a year of chem before you can (or should) start ochem, so that's the schedule long pole: 6 quarters. In theory, you can take chem, bio & physics during the regular year, and do a condensed year of o-chem during the summer, but then it's August before you can effectively start MCAT prep and you have to wait another year to apply anyway. So slowing it down over 6 quarters, balancing the load, taking on MCAT prep as well during the last 2 quarters, that will be more reasonable. Also try to get some biochem, genetics & other upper div science if you can.

Best of luck to you.

 

[pdeco1]

I have an Econ degree. Took all of the simple sciences to get my requirements the first time around.

I decided to jump in with both feet this summer.

I am taking Chem1 (summer A) and Bio1 (summer C) w/both labs. I have A's in all four classes heading into finals for Chemistry. It has been tough, I have class everyday for 3-4 hrs and about 5-6 hrs of studying, lab reports, reading etc.. It is a huge investment in time and energy, but I totally enjoy it and am thinking about taking Chem 2 Summer B to get it out of the way.

Chemistry is just a lot of reading, understanding new vocabulary and applying basic algebra. I think it is totally doable over the summer. I would not waste time in a prep class.

Good luck!

 

[clausewitz2]

I second pdeco1, provisionally. I am taking Gen Chem this summer in a similarly condensed format, and I'm doing pretty well (challenges are coming from a horrifically disorganized lecturer, rather than the material itself). If you are comfortable with algebra and can retain semantic information reasonably well, Chem is not so bad. But then, I also found non-calc Physics to be trivially easy, and I know that this is not everyone's experience.

If you do this and follow my example, though, be prepare for about a week where nothing seems to make any sense, followed by a sudden "aha" clicking moment, after which point it's difficult to see how you found the material hard in the first place.

 

[student1799]

I would stringly second Dr. Midlife's advice about taking pre-chem and pre-physics, and maybe a math class, this summer.

I did something similar when starting my postbacc program in '06, and was really glad I did. I'd been out of college for over 20 years, so my school recommended it, but I'd have probably done so anyway. I took pre-chem, pre-physics and precalc; the first two were non-credit "warm-up" classes, while the precalc course was a regular college math class for a grade.

I was VERY grateful for the warm-ups, especially in physics, because I'd never taken college physics. The instructor was great,and the regular physics class in the fall moved so fast that I'd have been lost without the prep. (I ended up getting an A.) The chem warmup was well worth it also.

Dont try to jump right into regular college science classes without a warmup if you haven't taken them before, because it could be quite a shock. Better to give yourself time to get up to speed first.

 

[atomi]

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[DrMidlife]

I am going to get beat on for this, but I am dead serious when I say that ochem should be taken first of the four.

Interesting. Given my (complete and total lack of comfort or non-painful) success in ochem I'm open to such an idea. Expound, please.

 

[njbmd]

I was recently accepted to a post bac informal program at Portland State, and I was wondering what course I should take over the summer. I have not taken any previous science or math courses since high school, so I need to take all the pre med courses. I am not in a big rush to finish in a year. I just want to make sure I do well in my classes. They offer General Chemistry which lasts for about 2 months...I also need to take Calculus, Bio, Physics, and Organic Chem. For General Chemistry, though, I am not sure if I need to take a prereq class. I took Chemistry in high school, but that was so long ago, and I don't remember anything. They have a prep class for Gen Chem and Physics in the summer. Would it be advisable to take that before I take Gen Chem, and take Gen Chem in the fall? Also, should I take one or two classes over the summer? And if so, which two classes?

Thanks so much for your input.

General Chemistry and General Physics both require a high degree of comfort and skill with algebra/trig. If you math skills are "rusty", then take a math refresher before taking either of these classes. In addition, I always advise students against trying to take pre-med coursework over the summer. The summer is very condensed and moves rapidly. If you have been away from academics/science work for awhile, take your first science course in the fall and use the summer to refresh your math.

You need high quality work (i.e. no grade less than B+) so start slow, get excellent grades and most of all, make sure that you master the material. Rushing and doing mediocre work will not get you into medical school.

 

[MedicineMike]

Ive been out of school for 2 years and started this summer with Chem I. It was definitely an eye opener having my first class being Chem I w/ lab in an 8 wk summer course! I just had my first test and beginning to feel a lot more comfortable with it.

If I had to do it all over again, I would have started with bio I this summer. It is a little easier/less demanding than Chem I.

If it has been a very long time, I suggest you ease into it! Good Luck

 

[sindadel]

While you don't need much specifically from gen chem for ochem, I feel that a comfort with the periodic table and valence theory is pretty essential. So I too would be interested to hear atomi's proposition. 🙂

 

[andrewmoquin09]

When I am still studying, I never thought of a second course after I finish my degree. It's just a waste of time. I still have many priorities and goals to accomplish. But for all those who really love schooling, it's not bad to go on schooling but if you are just happy with what you are right now, then why think of the other one?

 

[atomi]

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[clausewitz2]

Pardon the question that I am sure has been answered about a million times - so ochem, of the four major prereqs, is the least important for the MCAT? Does that mean taking the MCAT before taking, say, ochem II is feasible? It would make the timeline I'm sketching out for myself alot more manageable, just because I have some time constraints on when I should optimally be applying (essentially to solve the two-body problem, as it were).

 

[sindadel]

Yes, there's not much second semester ochem on the MCAT. Depending on the score you are aiming for, taking ochem II after the MCAT is pretty reasonable. Maybe check in the MCAT forum as well though as they stay on top of their game. 🙂

 

[student1799]

Ochem is by far the least covered of the four on the MCAT (i.e., only a handful of questions). It is in the process of being phased out for med school admissions.

Can't argue with you here.

The importance of the prereqs is for MCAT preparation.

Now here's where we part company.

It may well be true that orgo (aka ochem, aka "organic", depending on where you're from 🙂) is not very important for the MCAT. But the prereq courses are NOT just for MCAT prep; the GRADES you get in these courses are seen as a very important barometer of your aptitude for science and ability to handle the med school curriculum.

Having taken both G Chem and orgo, as well as the MCAT, I would consider it absolutely suicidal to attempt orgo before G Chem. (In fact, most colleges won't even allow it. My school wouldn't even let you register for orgo I until you'd completed both semesters of G Chem.) It's true that there isn't a lot of overlap in material between the two courses, but you need to get an overall orientation in chemistry, as well as familiarity with atomic structure, orbitals, valence electrons, etc., in order to have any hope of doing well in orgo.

And not only is the material inherently more challenging in orgo, the workload tends to be much heavier as well. Most premeds find this to be the single most challenging course they take, from a sheer endurance standpoint if nothing else. Why take your hardest course right off the bat, when you're just getting used to taking college science courses, and run the risk of doing badly? You could end up having to retake the class AND have a bad grade marring your record. I really think that would be a foolish risk to take.

Different schools do things differently, but in my 2-year postbacc program, the course sequence went like this:

Year 1 fall: Calc I, Physics I+ lab, G Chem I, G Chem lab [1 sem--can take either fall or spring]

Year 1 spring: Calc II or stats, Physics II + lab, G Chem II

Year 2 fall: Orgo I, Bio I, Orgo lab or Bio lab [1 sem]
Year 2 spring: Orgo II, Bio II, Bio lab or Orgo lab

I thought this sequence made a decent amount of sense conceptually. To me, G Chem and physics have a lot in common, as do orgo and bio. (My school's bio course is very biochem-heavy, so it wouldn't have been wise to take it before getting through the G Chem sequence.)