What did you learn/advice re: internship app process?

[psychanator]

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Hey ya'll!

As the internship application process is currently in session, I thought it would be helpful to have a thread where current and previous applicants can share things they've learned throughout the process and advice for people who will be applying in the future, or current applicants who won't match and will need advice for Phase II. There are lots of people with great advice on these boards, so if you have any words of wisdom (re: tracking hours, essays, letters of rec, selecting sites, timeline of when to start things, etc. etc.) please feel free to share!

 

[cara susanna]

I learned quite a few things:
- For some sites, rankings are mostly made prior to the interview and the interview itself actually doesn't matter that much.
- My subjective feeling during interviews did not at all correspond to my eventual match results. I didn't match at sites where I'd felt a strong connection and felt that I had nailed the interview. Similarly, I matched at a site where I felt like I had made no impression at all.
- The term "open house" appears to have many different definitions and what will actually happen during an open house varies from site to site.
- Honestly, I learned just how broken the system truly is. The application process felt very random to me and matching more like winning the lottery than anything.

I don't think that I have any advice aside from what I've given in other threads, other than to take care of yourself as best as you can during the application process.

 

[WisNeuro]

I will say that in the 4 selection processes that I've been a part of, the interview has definitely changed the "pre-rankings" of a significant number of applicants each year. I do think that the top applicants usually stay the top applicants, but many ranked near the bottom move into the upper half of the top tier and vice versa.

 

[463951]

Practice interviewing! Try and arrange at least one mock interview with a faculty member or your DCT. During my mock interview, I was surprised at how flustered and inarticulate I was, even when my DCT threw me an easy question (e.g., what is your dissertation about?). So I practiced a lot, by myself, using my cats as the interviewers, lol. I just practiced out loud the questions that I anticipated (e.g., why this site, describe a difficult case, what are your goals, what are you looking for in a supervisor), and it really helped. The interviewing will get easier as you move through interviews, but better to be prepared for those first couple by practicing beforehand.

Read this book – http://www.amazon.com/Internships-Psychology-Workbook-Successful-Applications/dp/143381210X – (available as an ebook) that details out the internship process from beginning to end. I found it very helpful, particularly the sample questions – both questions you may be asked by interviewers, and sample questions you could ask interviewers/current interns at the interview.

Don't book two interviews on two consecutive days. It is good to have "padding" in between interviews, especially if you are traveling far in between two interviews. You never know what will come up, and you may need to reschedule your flight, so that extra day will really come in handy. Last year, there was that "polar vortex," and a LOT of my flights were running very late, or were canceled, but luckily, I had time in between interviews, and was able to make it to them all by rescheduling canceled flights, or arriving a little later than anticipated.

Don't check your luggage. It's a pain, and often times you will be running from one place to the next, and you will be thankful that you don't have to stop and check your luggage, and then wait for it after you arrive. Or your luggage could straight up get lost, and you could end up showing up to the interview in what you wore on the plane. If you absolutely must check your luggage, at least carry your suit on with you.

Try to schedule interviews geographically. This is not always possible, because it depends on when sites get back to you, but try to schedule your interviews by geographic region if you can. So, if you have three interviews in one week, it's much easier to bounce around from Arkansas to Mississippi to Kentucky, than to bounce from Chicago to Seattle to Florida or whatever.

Relax and be yourself. This sounds cliché and easier said than done, but once you get to the interview, remind yourself that you were selected to interview for a reason, the site wants to get to know you better. Let them get to know you. 🙂

 

[Rivi]

I learned that even Sigmund Freud would look like a babbling idiot at times during the all-day gauntlet style interviews they put us through. In other words, don't be too hard on yourself.

 

[PsychBoxe]

- One of the sites I applied to did not heavily weigh clinical hours (e.g. intervention and assessment) into their ranking because they assumed applicants inflated these figures. They instead focused on LORs, previous training, and professional presentations
- It's very difficult, at least it was for me, to gauge the sites that would offer me an interview. I almost did not apply to the site I matched to because I did not think I met some of their criteria. On the other hand, I did not get interviews at a few "safety sites" (misnomer for sure) that, on paper, I thought I was qualified for.
- In terms of interview day: The way you interact with fellow applicants and current interns of the site can be one of the most important parts of the interview.
- Applicants vary in their competitiveness. Observe this pattern during group interviews and try and avoid being pulled to ask questions for the sake of participation. Quality and curiosity over quantity and compulsion.
- Be genuine and humble.

 

[psychanator]

- One of the sites I applied to did not heavily weigh clinical hours (e.g. intervention and assessment) into their ranking because they assumed applicants inflated these figures. They instead focused on LORs, previous training, and professional presentations

This is very helpful, thanks everyone so far! I have a question re: hours. Have you guys found that sites generally stick closely to the minimum hours listings on the directory and brochures?

 

[PsychPhDone]

Two unexpected things I experienced/learned during the Internship Interview Gauntlet:

1. I made friends! Get to know your fellow applicants. You'll probably see the same people over and over, and you might even match with some of them. My experience was that most people were eager to talk about non-psychology things/travel woes AND nobody seemed "competitive" in the off-putting way.

2. I did fun things! Try to book in some "padding" to your schedule, whether it's an extra day in a fun city or a weekend with a grad school friend currently on Internship. Getting to sleep in late in a hotel and then head to the beach one weekend and then catch up with a friend the next was absolutely vital to me in terms of keeping refreshed and motivated during the process.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

To echo PsychPhDStudent…definitely try and squeeze in an extra day here or there to guard against burnout. For the cities/sites I was most interested in attending I tried to schedule an extra day before/after the interview to explore the city/area. I kept a M, W, F interview schedule and just flew to each city instead of flying home. I got home I think twice in the month of Jan (MWF x 4, and a random TH interview). I used PriceLine for all of my hotels, and that saved me a chunk of money. BiddingForTravel is a treasure trove of good info about bidding in different cities. I like high-end places, which typically offer the deepest discounts on PL. The net cost for a PL 4* room compared to an online rate of a 2.5-3.0* room was ~$20-$25/nt in most cities sans NYC/CHI/SF. I off-set the extra costs by staying with friends/family on a handful of interviews and bringing my own hotspot to avoid the $10-$20/day internet fees. I also joined every hotel chain rewards program. I booked my flights on Southwest whenever possible, as I could change a ticket at no cost (it happened at a place that "forgot" to confirm the date we discussed). I also used mileage and hotel pts for later flights.

 

[voyeurofthemind]

Can any application reviewers share the nature of the ranking system? Is it done by a rubric with sections that evaluate clinical experience, research / scholarly productivity etc.? How is a total rank score typically calculated?

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Can any application reviewers share the nature of the ranking system? Is it done by a rubric with sections that evaluate clinical experience, research / scholarly productivity etc.? How is a total rank score typically calculated?

It's likely going to be inappropriate for reviewers to comment on the nature of the ranking system(s) they use, unfortunately.

I can second WisNeuro's comment, though, that particularly outside of the very top applicants, interviews can play a very large role in "mixing things up" re: pre- vs. post-interview rankings.

 

[WisNeuro]

I won't go into details about particulars in ranking systems outside of the fact that it varies pretty wildly from site to site. Some sites like research productivity, some weigh LOR's more heavily, some don't even really consider essays, etc. There is no one rubric or system that works for everyone. I will say, however, that it has been my experience that the total applicant is judged. Meaning that they can compensate for some weaknesses with strength in other areas.

Also, reputation matters. You can have a ton of clinical hours, but if it's all at places or with people with no/poor reputation, it's diminishing returns after you reach a certain bar. Same thing with pubs/posters. Don't only publish in non-refereed sources. Most people do not consider those publications. Also, you need to be presenting at national/international conferences, only presenting at your school's research day is also not something that is really counted.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Some general points I've seen/used across a few different sites:
-Point system for the initial review of the application (Likert Scales for topic areas like: Clinical, Research, LOR, Dissertation Progress, Fit, etc.)…a typical first cut opportunity. Dissertation progress (or lack there of) was a big point of exclusion for at least one site…as no one wanted to have a trainee get stuck in Limbo…it is bad for the student and reflects poorly on the site.
-Committee review of apps…typically a second round review, as there are too many apps to do this for every received app.
-Pre-interview ranking…which helps set the invite list…very similar to what I imagine the NCAA Basketball Selection Committee experiences. Sometimes there are too many apps from a given program, so some get culled. Other times there are apps that may not be the cookie cutter…but people want to give them a chance bc they could be a great fit.
-Interviews…followed by post-interview survey sheets on each app. The surveys are aggregated and then the list is re-visited.
-Final rankings are done by the DCT.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Some general points I've seen/used across a few different sites:
-Point system for the initial review of the application (Likert Scales for topic areas like: Clinical, Research, LOR, Dissertation Progress, Fit, etc.)…a typical first cut opportunity. Dissertation progress (or lack there of) was a big point of exclusion for at least one site…as no one wanted to have a trainee get stuck in Limbo…it is bad for the student and reflects poorly on the site.
-Committee review of apps…typically a second round review, as there are too many apps to do this for every received app.
-Pre-interview ranking…which helps set the invite list…very similar to what I imagine the NCAA Basketball Selection Committee experiences. Sometimes there are too many apps from a given program, so some get culled. Other times there are apps that may not be the cookie cutter…but people want to give them a chance bc they could be a great fit.
-Interviews…followed by post-interview survey sheets on each app. The surveys are aggregated and then the list is re-visited.
-Final rankings are done by the DCT.

I can second that the bolded above as also happened as sites where I've been involved in the process. As WisNeuro mentioned earlier, this gets back to the whole applicant being evaluated. Thus, someone could have what would be considered a mid- or low-tier strength of application, but if faculty are interested in getting to know the person a bit more because of essays/past experiences/life story/etc., a couple of these applicants very well might be invited to interview.

Also, just to reiterate what's been said in every APPIC thread for the past 5 or so years--plenty of qualified, interesting, and well-trained applicants don't make the cut (whether for interview invites or at the final ranking). It's generally not personal, although interview red flags can certainly come into play, and often comes down to splitting some pretty fine hairs.

 

[hillies]

Can any application reviewers share the nature of the ranking system? Is it done by a rubric with sections that evaluate clinical experience, research / scholarly productivity etc.? How is a total rank score typically calculated?

My advisor contacted his former internship's DCT since I'm applying there--a very well known program in Chicago--and was informed that they use an algorithm based on research productivity, program reputation, and some other factors to choose their interviewees/interns. Very humanistic, well-rounded approach, it seems.

 

[WisNeuro]

Got to use something to make the rankings.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Got to use something to make the rankings.

Yep; we have to try our best to inject at least some degree of objectivity into the whole process.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

I'm still bitter about this one because I learned it the hard way: counseling centers want to see counseling center experience prior to internship. My research interests are related to gender and diversity issues, so many counseling centers appealed to me because of their focus on these topics. My program didn't offer a CC practicum. I didn't get a single interview at a CC (the vast majority of sites I applied to) and my DCT and I were puzzled because I had a good application and seemed to be a good fit on paper. So, my DCT called up and asked these programs for feedback. The uniform answer was that I hadn't worked in that environment before. I've heard this from others too now that I have friends working in those settings. I find this highly frustrating because one of the reasons I wanted to work there was to expand my skills! Fortunately, I applied to 3 CMH's and got interviews there and matched. Thank goodness!

So I will boil my advice down to: apply to a variety of sites and think about who would want you just as much as where you want to go.

Good luck!

 

[smalltownpsych]

I'm still bitter about this one because I learned it the hard way: counseling centers want to see counseling center experience prior to internship. My research interests are related to gender and diversity issues, so many counseling centers appealed to me because of their focus on these topics. My program didn't offer a CC practicum. I didn't get a single interview at a CC (the vast majority of sites I applied to) and my DCT and I were puzzled because I had a good application and seemed to be a good fit on paper. So, my DCT called up and asked these programs for feedback. The uniform answer was that I hadn't worked in that environment before. I've heard this from others too now that I have friends working in those settings. I find this highly frustrating because one of the reasons I wanted to work there was to expand my skills! Fortunately, I applied to 3 CMH's and got interviews there and matched. Thank goodness!

So I will boil my advice down to: apply to a variety of sites and think about who would want you just as much as where you want to go.

Good luck!

I applied to a couple of counseling centers for internships and got the same result. An inability to see how other related experiences could make for a better intern or post-doc or even psychologist is a problem IMO. I was hired into my last position as a clinical director for a private organization in part because I did not have experience in the exact same setting and would thus bring an outsiders perspective.

I would love to work in a college counseling center but probably never will for this reason. Also, they don't pay very well either. 😱

 

[hillies]

Yep; we have to try our best to inject at least some degree of objectivity into the whole process.

Yes, of course! Although the implication of the conversation was that applicant essays, clinical hours, LORs, previous experiences, etc. were ignored in favor of just a couple other factors. That's why it was slightly off-putting.

 

[WisNeuro]

The essays, for the most part yes, the hours, no. What was said was that the quality matters with those hours. Places rank quality of training experiences more highly than hours. So, if you're getting those hours at prac sites, make sure they're reputable and varied. And LOR's are huge when they come from people we know well, connections matter. Some writers write canned letters. As in, from one school especially, I've seen almost the exact same letter about 30 times over the year. When every letter you write says that the student is in the top 10% of students you've supervised, well, I have a hard time believing you've had an exceptionally good run with that many students.

 

[psychRA]

I will second the advice about not checking your luggage. Be aware that you may have to check your carryon bag if the overhead bins fill up, especially now that airlines seem to be booking completely full flights. The last few times that I've flown, they began the boarding process by announcing that the flight was full and that everyone in the last boarding group (or even the last two boarding groups) should plan to check all bags that don't fit under a seat.

You can't control whether your flight is full, so try to make sure that your interview outfit stays with you at all times. The year that I interivewed, I went out an bought the smallest roller bag that I could find (places like Marshalls and TJMaxx have good deals) to increase the odds that it would fit on a crowded flight. To be extra safe, I put my interview outfit and grooming essentials in a separate pouch inside my roller bag, and before I boarded a flight I would pull out the pouch and stuff it into my smaller carryon bag. If you carry a purse, bring an empty backpack that will accomodate your purse as well as your interivew outfit so that you can combine bags to stay under the 2-carryon limit when you board the plane. You may wrinkle your outfit a bit, but ironing it at your destination will be faster than scrambling to find a new outfit because the airline lost your bag.

 

[cara susanna]

I will second the advice about not checking your luggage. Be aware that you may have to check your carryon bag if the overhead bins fill up, especially now that airlines seem to be booking completely full flights. The last few times that I've flown, they began the boarding process by announcing that the flight was full and that everyone in the last boarding group (or even the last two boarding groups) should plan to check all bags that don't fit under a seat.

You can't control whether your flight is full, so try to make sure that your interview outfit stays with you at all times. The year that I interivewed, I went out an bought the smallest roller bag that I could find (places like Marshalls and TJMaxx have good deals) to increase the odds that it would fit on a crowded flight. To be extra safe, I put my interview outfit and grooming essentials in a separate pouch inside my roller bag, and before I boarded a flight I would pull out the pouch and stuff it into my smaller carryon bag. If you carry a purse, bring an empty backpack that will accomodate your purse as well as your interivew outfit so that you can combine bags to stay under the 2-carryon limit when you board the plane. You may wrinkle your outfit a bit, but ironing it at your destination will be faster than scrambling to find a new outfit because the airline lost your bag.

I did the same and, guess what, they actually did lost my luggage for one interview. But I had my suit in my carry-on overnight bag! That actually reminds me to add: don't just think about your suit, think about other things that you might need for the interview if they lose your luggage. Or else you'll have to run and buy deodorant the morning of the interview like I did. 😉