What disabiltiy and Life insurance companies do you use?

[PatrickBateman]

I'm in the process of researching life insurance and disability insurance companies. I'm looking for a policy with as many of the following terms as possible:

Own occupation;
Non-cancellable;
Lifetime benefits;
Future insurablity:
Cost of living;
Residual and recovery benifits.

For life insurance I'm looking for whole as opposed to term, with the option to increase coverage at a later stage.


What company do you use? Any chance you could tell me what the terms are and a ballpark figure for what your premiums are? Thanks.

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[MM9]

I'm in the process of researching life insurance and disability insurance companies. I'm looking for a policy with as many of the following terms as possible:

Own occupation;
Non-cancellable;
Lifetime benefits;
Future insurablity:
Cost of living;
Residual and recovery benifits.

For life insurance I'm looking for whole as opposed to term, with the option to increase coverage at a later stage.


What company do you use? Any chance you could tell me what the terms are and a ballpark figure for what your premiums are? Thanks.

I've done some research but have not purchased anything yet so I don't have any companies to recommend. But I'd like hear your opinions, and anyone else's opinions, so I'll share mine.

In my opinion, Term life is definitely the way to go. Whole life functions as an investment as well as life insurance, but doesn't do either one particularly well. My father in law, who works in this general field, always offers to punch anyone in the face who is thinking about Whole life. His suggestion is to grab some term life so you're insured until your 60's and hopefully you won't need it beyond that (your kids are grown, college is paid for, the house is mostly paid off, and retirement fund is looking good). Term life rates are quite good right now (say 500/year for 500K) and you can put away the money you'll save. What is your rational for wanting Whole Life?

I'm less certain about DI (Disability Insurance). All the things you listed sound great, but I was quoted well over 1000$ a year for a "super" policy like that. Own Occupation, residual coverage, non-cancellable, and lifetime benefits are must haves. However, I'm thinking of doing without the cost of living rider. It was suggested to me that if you have to cut something, this is the thing to cut. Thoughts?

 

[PatrickBateman]

I've done some research but have not purchased anything yet so I don't have any companies to recommend. But I'd like hear your opinions, and anyone else's opinions, so I'll share mine.

I'll be glad to share what I find out as I learn it.

In my opinion, Term life is definitely the way to go. Whole life functions as an investment as well as life insurance, but doesn't do either one particularly well. My father in law, who works in this general field, always offers to punch anyone in the face who is thinking about Whole life. His suggestion is to grab some term life so you're insured until your 60's and hopefully you won't need it beyond that (your kids are grown, college is paid for, the house is mostly paid off, and retirement fund is looking good). Term life rates are quite good right now (say 500/year for 500K) and you can put away the money you'll save. What is your rational for wanting Whole Life?

You might be right about the term insurance. What's important to me is renewability and the option to increase so that I can find a decent policy and get limited coverage during residency and increase the policy after that when I'd be earning more. The LI is basically to cover my wife until my investments mature. My rational for whole was that I was under the impression that renewability and extendability were only available through whole. I now see that's not the case so I'm looking into both. Whole as an "investment" isn't very impressive to me.

I'm less certain about DI (Disability Insurance). All the things you listed sound great, but I was quoted well over 1000$ a year for a "super" policy like that. Own Occupation, residual coverage, non-cancellable, and lifetime benefits are must haves. However, I'm thinking of doing without the cost of living rider. It was suggested to me that if you have to cut something, this is the thing to cut. Thoughts?

Yeah it's hard to get good terms with DI. After the HMO's hit medicine a lot of surgeons and other doctors quit their jobs claiming "emotional trauma" and cashed in on their DI. Since then most companies don't offer it and the ones that do charge a lot for it. I do think it's very important though. When I get around to specific premiums and companies I'll tell you what I find. But if $1000 a year was the best I could find with good terms, I think I'd take it.

 

[Sugar72]

What's important to me is renewability and the option to increase so that I can find a decent policy and get limited coverage during residency and increase the policy after that when I'd be earning more. The LI is basically to cover my wife until my investments mature. My rational for whole was that I was under the impression that renewability and extendability were only available through whole. I now see that's not the case so I'm looking into both. Whole as an "investment" isn't very impressive to me.



.

You should think about a term policy that is guaranteed renewable - like a 20y or 30 yr term policy. I have 500,000 of 30yr Term. It is $250 a year and will stay in place for 30years. I am old and don't think I will need it after 60 yr old - my kids will be grown and I hopefull will have invested wisely - blah blah blah. It is a way better deal than whole life for a resident. If you invest the difference between your termlife coverage and your whole life coverage it would probably be about $800 - $1000 more a year to invest growing(preferable in tax free product) in 30 years it would almost assuredly beat the return on your whole life product. That being said there probably is a place for whole life in the investment strategy of in someone with a much higher tax burden if you do it pretax from a corporation or something. My finances are definately not that complicated yet! It is never too late to switch out of a whole life product and save some money.

I hope someone has some more info on disability to post. I definitely don't have much experience with that except I know you should own your own that you can carry from job to job and I don't think as residents we can get much!

 

[linden]

For disability, we went with Berkshire (own occupation, noccancellable and gaurenteed renewable, lifetime benes, cola, etc). Rates depend on specialty and waiting period- if you're in your fourth year or have yet to start intern year, you qualify for lower rates. There were several payment options - either constant rate or choose a graduated rate that starts lower and increases so pay less during residency and can opt to go to standard rate later.

Pay the standard rate, have all previous mentioned terms, pay about $1100 annually for the student bene $2100/mo. If went with the graduated option, I think the rate started off in the $800s and went up every year. the resident bene is 3500/mo and will most increase the premium to $1700. attending level bene is 6500/mo (with all there is a 3% cost of living increase in the bene). bought policy right before start of intern year so currently have med student bene and can decide to bump up to resident at anniversary date any year. specialty is probably mid level risk (not a surgeon - their rates are higher). policy is for a 90 waiting period (less than 90 days was much more expensive but more than 90 not much cheaper).

 

[PatrickBateman]

Ok, I spoke with a couple of places. My school put me in touch with a firm that deals mainly with medical professionals and give an institutional discount. The should be emailing me early next week with quotes from, Gaurdian, Metlife, Principle, and Standard.


BTW for anyone waiting until the move to purchase DI that might be a mistake. There are different rates for each state so you might want to arrange this before you hit the road.

 

[gungho]

There is another aspect to whole life (cash value) insurance that hasn't been mentioned. You can access the cash built up in a policy as a loan to buy a car, house, etc. When you pay the loan back, you are paying yourself the principal plus interest minus a small spread for the company, typically 1%. You can't deduct this interest if you're buying a house, but a 1% cost isn't bad. There are other aspects that are too involved to discuss on this forum, but it's something to consider. I bought a whole life policy as a resident, wasn't sure I was doing the right thing then, now have a pretty good chunk built up, plus have some supplemental term for protection. Term probably is better for most people starting out; some combination may be better for some people. It's a complicated issue, something to ask your financial advisor/insurance agent about.

 

[doctordi]

I am glad to see that all of you are interested in disability insurance. I am a financial planner and my company specializes in disability insurance for residents and physicians, we perform educational seminars at residency programs often. Please feel free to email me for more information, quotes or just plain advice. Ok the basics

Lock in young and healthy with a non-cancellable guaranteed renewable policy you will lock in to the rates and benefits more cheaply than if you wait. With this type of coverage the company can never change your benefits or increase your rate.

While in residency females can often qualify for and obtain unisex rates saving up to 20% on current and future premium.

Specialty specific true own occupation is a must for physicians (to my knowledge only two companies are offering true own occ to age 65 for all specialties). This benefit allows you to work in another occupation or medical specialty and still collect your benefit.

Residual or Partial disability allows you to return to work and still collect a benefit if your income has dropped due to disability.

Future increase option is also very important. The amount of coverage you can purchase is determined by your income. This option allows you to purchase increases in coverage as your income increases without proving health or insurability. All you have to prove is income.

Cost of Living Adjustment is very valuable if you are disabled for a long period of time your benefits will increase with the consumer price index keeping your monthly benefit level with inflation.

Lifetime benefits (only one company currently offers) If you become disabled young and have not had time to save for retirement this can be really valuable. Most companies pay to age 65-70.

Life Insurance

Term insurance is the way to go for young people who need it to serve an immediate need. I do suggest obtaining term coverage that is convertable to whole life because at some point you will need whole life for estate planning purposes.

Whole Life serves a valuable purpose for protection, estate planning, asset protection purposes, and tax planning.

Hope this helps and contact me with any questions or concerns.

 

[nole stomper]

1. Northwestern Mutual Financial Network

2. Northwestern Mutual Financial Network

3. Northwestern Mutual Financial Network

They are the best in the business. They may cost a little more, but their dividends are unbeatable because they're one of the few (i think 2 or 3) mutual companies left.

 

[inositide]

which company is giving you 500k/30yr term life insurance for only $250 a year?

The best I can find is $37/month. Also, I think return on premium is a good thing even though it costs a few dollars more per month. Do other people agree with this?

Thanks.

 

[HTD]

I have disability with Provident. My agent has added an additional policy to cover what provident cannnot. More importantly, I developed a relationship with my agent as an intern that made it much easier to trust him when it came time to get my life insurance policies. I have 10 year term and my wife has 20 year term. We have 2,500,000.00 each. It sounds corny but I really sleep better at night knowing that my children and the family left behind to raise them are well provided for in the event of my premature death.

I reccommend getting on that now. Usually the policies provided by hospitals for residents and employed staff are very weak and they limit your ability to obtain better coverage on your own. I created a bit of a fuss to get a waiver on the disability policy that my hospital gave me for FREE so that I could pay for better coverage on my own.

Good Luck!

 

[PatrickBateman]

I created a bit of a fuss to get a waiver on the disability policy that my hospital gave me for FREE so that I could pay for better coverage on my own.

How did that work? Do they give you the money that they would have paid into your employer-provided insurance plan to put toward your private policy? Is that an attending-only move?

 

[doctordi]

Northwestern mutual is one of the only mutual companies left (Guardian is another) and while their life insurance is very good their disability policy is not the best choice for physicians for the following reasons.

Their definition of total disability reads as follows
Unable to perform the material and substantial duties of regular occupation and not gainfully employed. An own occupation rider may be purchased for extra premium but doctors are limited to a two year own occ period.

Other companies are offering doctors specialty specific own occupation coverage for a period of five years or to age 65.

For disability right now Guardian/Berkshire is unbeatable.
Union Central, Mass Mutual, and Standard of Oregon also have good contracts but at this time cannot compete with Guardian.

For more information feel free to contact me.

 

[Finally M3]

Disability: Guardian, resident salary, option to triple coverage w/o another medical, all the bell's & whistles

Life: Term, NW Mutual. Need to D/W financial planner regarding converting to a whole life once graduating (for assett prot, not investment purpose).

 

[12R34Y]

Guardian/Berkshire is the best deal for disability hands down.

they're awesome and are the most comprehensive for physicians.

later

 

[google1234]

During residency, is it a bad idea to stick with the group hospital DI policy and buy disability insurance after residency? I can't seem to get straight answers about whether my premiums would be higher doing it that way or not (assuming good health over the next several years). The quotes I've been getting are so high....

 

[Attila]

During residency, is it a bad idea to stick with the group hospital DI policy and buy disability insurance after residency? I can't seem to get straight answers about whether my premiums would be higher doing it that way or not (assuming good health over the next several years). The quotes I've been getting are so high....

Yes, it's a bad idea. You need to get a policy now that has the option to be extended later. If you wait and apply later you won't get rates or terms that are as good. The younger you are the better the policy you get. Not to mention that the group coverage that you get through your program isn't nearly adequate. The terms that you need are listed in the OP. Your program's group coverage generally has none of these.

 

[daisygirl]

I have disability with Provident. My agent has added an additional policy to cover what provident cannnot. More importantly, I developed a relationship with my agent as an intern that made it much easier to trust him when it came time to get my life insurance policies. I have 10 year term and my wife has 20 year term. We have 2,500,000.00 each. It sounds corny but I really sleep better at night knowing that my children and the family left behind to raise them are well provided for in the event of my premature death.

I reccommend getting on that now. Usually the policies provided by hospitals for residents and employed staff are very weak and they limit your ability to obtain better coverage on your own. I created a bit of a fuss to get a waiver on the disability policy that my hospital gave me for FREE so that I could pay for better coverage on my own.

Good Luck!

Is Provident also known as Unum Provident? Thanks.

 

[GammaRay]

I am glad to see that all of you are interested in disability insurance. I am a financial planner and my company specializes in disability insurance for residents and physicians, we perform educational seminars at residency programs often. Please feel free to email me for more information, quotes or just plain advice. Ok the basics

Lock in young and healthy with a non-cancellable guaranteed renewable policy you will lock in to the rates and benefits more cheaply than if you wait. With this type of coverage the company can never change your benefits or increase your rate.

While in residency females can often qualify for and obtain unisex rates saving up to 20% on current and future premium.

Specialty specific true own occupation is a must for physicians (to my knowledge only two companies are offering true own occ to age 65 for all specialties). This benefit allows you to work in another occupation or medical specialty and still collect your benefit.

Residual or Partial disability allows you to return to work and still collect a benefit if your income has dropped due to disability.

Future increase option is also very important. The amount of coverage you can purchase is determined by your income. This option allows you to purchase increases in coverage as your income increases without proving health or insurability. All you have to prove is income.

Cost of Living Adjustment is very valuable if you are disabled for a long period of time your benefits will increase with the consumer price index keeping your monthly benefit level with inflation.

Lifetime benefits (only one company currently offers) If you become disabled young and have not had time to save for retirement this can be really valuable. Most companies pay to age 65-70.

Life Insurance

Term insurance is the way to go for young people who need it to serve an immediate need. I do suggest obtaining term coverage that is convertable to whole life because at some point you will need whole life for estate planning purposes.

Whole Life serves a valuable purpose for protection, estate planning, asset protection purposes, and tax planning.

Hope this helps and contact me with any questions or concerns.

I found your post of basic information very useful. Not for me, per se, because I already knew the info. But for a novice, I think your points are both clear and useful. Maybe your post should should be stickied.

 

[doctordi]

Thank you for your compliment. I am new to these forums what does it mean for a post to be stickied? how do I go about doing this?

 

[doctordi]

Daisy Unum is often referred to as UNUM Provident

Google as other people have mentioned it is a good idea to obtain personal coverage now.

Right now Guardian is writing the most liberal contract in the market. The DI industry constantly changes and for the most part companies are reducing the benefits they offer. Obtaining the coverage now has several benefits.

1. Rates are determined at an attained age and by health so every year you wait price goes up and you increase your chance of something in the area of your health affecting your coverage.

2. You lock into occupational class benefits. Guardian just extended their own occupation period for surgeons, invasive, ER docs etc. from a five year period to age 65.
If a company changes the benefits they are offering you are locked into YOUR benefits.

3. The amount of personal coverage the company will issue is also determined by other coverage (They make an exception for Group DI provided through the school). So if you get out and are offered group disability even if you don't get it the company will decrease the amount of coverage they will write you. YOU NEED PERSONAL COVERAGE as the bulk of your disability you want to lock in to the maximum personal benefit and have your group add to it (group insurance is not affected by how much personal coverage you have)

4. For females unisex rates are often obtainable. Females are more expensive than males but unisex rates will save them money on the entire contract. So a female with a future increase option will have unisex rates on the current premium as well as future increases in coverage. Over the life of a contract this is VERY significant savings.

5. You guarantee your insurability. If something happens to your health (believe me it does not take much to get rated or declined) you don't have to prove health again for increases in coverage. You only have to prove that your income qualifies you for the increase requested.

I know this stuff is confusing please feel free to contact me with any questions.

 

[teninepit]

I am glad to see that all of you are interested in disability insurance. I am a financial planner and my company specializes in disability insurance for residents and physicians, we perform educational seminars at residency programs often. Please feel free to email me for more information, quotes or just plain advice. Ok the basics

Doctordi, while I am all about sharing information and helping others I need to call you out. Your post is clearly a solicitation for business. And as I am sure you are aware of (or at least should be) you cannot solicit business in states you are not registered in. I would strongly advise you to stick with the advice and drop your bolded post above or links to your website.

 

[teninepit]

I've done some research but have not purchased anything yet so I don't have any companies to recommend. But I'd like hear your opinions, and anyone else's opinions, so I'll share mine.

In my opinion, Term life is definitely the way to go. Whole life functions as an investment as well as life insurance, but doesn't do either one particularly well. My father in law, who works in this general field, always offers to punch anyone in the face who is thinking about Whole life. His suggestion is to grab some term life so you're insured until your 60's and hopefully you won't need it beyond that (your kids are grown, college is paid for, the house is mostly paid off, and retirement fund is looking good). Term life rates are quite good right now (say 500/year for 500K) and you can put away the money you'll save. What is your rational for wanting Whole Life?

Term insurance is fine if you are looking for something cheap. However that said, consider it basically renters insurance. You pay for something but probably will never get any tangible value from. Permanment insurance, whole life (do not ever buy, companies are selling less and less of this in fact), universal life(UL), variable universal life at least provide you a rate of interest in return as well as a death benefit. While too many nuances to get into here, UL IMHO is the best way to maximize cost/return while providing insurance death benefit as well.

Further, everyone needs to suck it up and pay for OWN OCC DI. It is expensive but worth every dime. You absolutely need it to protect your income God forbid something happens were you cannot work. Find an agent in your area that is not tied to a single company so he/she can provide you quotes from several different companies.

Further, nothing against your father-in-law but he clearly does not work in estate planning. Doctors especially given your probable high net worth when all is said and done will certainly be subject to estate tax. (your smoking something if you think estate tax is ever going away). Insurance is a valuable way to pay the estate taxes due. To say someone does not need insurance beyond 60 because the kids are gone is rather short sighted. You are going to leave your kids with huge taxes when you die. Taxes that are due IMMEDIATELY. Selling the house or whatever takes time to raise the money. Insurance can be used to pay the taxes since your kids will have it in hand within a week or two after your death.

One more thing, term rates can be very cheap, even less than posted above, find a good agent in your area for whatever type of insurance is suitable for you.

 

[doctordi]

I am here to share information which is exactly what I do. If someone wants my professional services then great. My website clearly states on the home page which states I am licensed to do business in which is in compliance with insurance regulations. If someone wants me to offer advice and wishes to obtain insurance in a state where I am not licensed I will refer them to a partner or colleague who is licensed in that state. I am in the process of obtaining licenses in all the states and need to update my site to reflect recent license approvals. I am in compliance with all industry standards and will remain to operate with high ethical standards.