What do top IM programs look for in a P/F world?

[IR3A4]

---

Members don't see this ad.

In a P/F environment, what are top IM programs looking for? In particular I'm talking about the NYC ones, as that's where I'm from and want to go back to (NYP-Columbia/Cornell, Mount Sinai, NYU).

Is research heavily favored here? Can ECs matter more? Will Step 2 be the biggest factor?

I know it's all conjecture but would love to hear your thoughts. I'm pretty set on staying in NYC, but unfortunately the residency programs in NYC are a handful of top tier programs, and then a large spattering of community programs that I've only heard bad things about.

 

[Lawpy]

AOA will still be key

 

[IR3A4]

AOA will still be key

Thanks! Wish my school was more transparent about what allows folks to qualify for AOA. Still a M2, so just keeping my exam scores 1SD above the mean as I imagine there's not much more I can do to shoot for it.

They had talks last year about us "not worrying" as they're moving away from grades. But they 1) didn't say what the new grounds would be 2) obviously that makes me worry as grades are far more objective and I do well on exams hahaha

 

[Davidfromcali]

School reputation, LOR , rotation grade in IM, might be more emphasis on EC's

 

[IR3A4]

School reputation, LOR , rotation grade in IM, might be more emphasis on EC's

School reputation is meh, probably considered a low-rank MD, and IM rotation grade makes sense, and I hope there's emphasis on the ECs haha.


What about research? That's definitely my weakest area that I can control. I plan to start diving into that, but I'm only semi-interested in research.

 

[Davidfromcali]

School reputation is meh, probably considered a low-rank MD, and IM rotation grade makes sense, and I hope there's emphasis on the ECs haha.


What about research? That's definitely my weakest area that I can control. I plan to start diving into that, but I'm only semi-interested in research.

Research can only help. Ive heard research isn't as important to have in IM as compared to surgical subs , derm, ect. but that research in the context of P/F step 1 could help set you apart from the crowd. Step 2 is still scored so the screening algorithm may not even change at some places but who knows

 

[AzBasRad]

Look into your school's prior match list and get in touch with any alumni who may have matched into those programs. Don't forget about Montefiore and Northshore/LIJ - both of which can give you solid training and prepare you for any future fellowship. I think the nursing staff at Northshore is probably friendlier.

To get into top tier IM programs:
The basics: School prestige (most important unfortunately), board scores (Step 2 CK), Academics (Honors in IM Clerkship, SubI, Class rank - top quartile/quintile), Strong LoRs with specific examples.

AOA is still important now, especially from low tier schools. Its importance may dissipate in the future as more schools are calling to dissolve their chapters or hold elections after match day.

Research: I agree with @Davidfromcali. Its important to have the experience but not as important to have extensive pubs.

"X" Factor: This could be extensive research if you're into it. Often times, ECs in the form of community involvement, advocacy and extensive leadership can be very important. At my low-tier med school, all of my peers with top grades, boards and AOA with extensive involvement/leadership with underserved communities interviewed and matched into t25 programs. All of them noted that their community involvement were brought up and praised during their virtual interviews.

 

[IR3A4]

Look into your school's prior match list and get in touch with any alumni who may have matched into those programs. Don't forget about Montefiore and Northshore/LIJ - both of which can give you solid training and prepare you for any future fellowship. I think the nursing staff at Northshore is probably friendlier.

To get into top tier IM programs:
The basics: School prestige (most important unfortunately), board scores (Step 2 CK), Academics (Honors in IM Clerkship, SubI, Class rank - top quartile/quintile), Strong LoRs with specific examples.

AOA is still important now, especially from low tier schools. Its importance may dissipate in the future as more schools are calling to dissolve their chapters or hold elections after match day.

Research: I agree with @Davidfromcali. Its important to have the experience but not as important to have extensive pubs.

"X" Factor: This could be extensive research if you're into it. Often times, ECs in the form of community involvement, advocacy and extensive leadership can be very important. At my low-tier med school, all of my peers with top grades, boards and AOA with extensive involvement/leadership with underserved communities interviewed and matched into t25 programs. All of them noted that their community involvement were brought up and praised during their virtual interviews.

Thanks for the input! And yeah I forgot about Monte and Northshore/LIJ (I used to work there so maybe my brain decided to blank it out hahaha).

Glad to hear about the last part, I suppose the crucial thing is, when the time comes, figuring how to appropriately reflect what I've done in my apps. That's always been my weakness, but it's certainly a crucial point in my app atm (I started up and ran a student-run clinic and it's been most of my timesink the last year).

 

[GoSpursGo]

Research is less of a must for IM in general, but it *is* a must for top-tier programs which are basically as competitive as surgical subs.

I also think you more or less should plan to complete step 2 CK in time for you to receive interviews. There are only going to be so many chances for you to differentiate yourself from other applicants, and you need to take that opportunity.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Look into your school's prior match list and get in touch with any alumni who may have matched into those programs. Don't forget about Montefiore and Northshore/LIJ - both of which can give you solid training and prepare you for any future fellowship. I think the nursing staff at Northshore is probably friendlier.

To get into top tier IM programs:
The basics: School prestige (most important unfortunately), board scores (Step 2 CK), Academics (Honors in IM Clerkship, SubI, Class rank - top quartile/quintile), Strong LoRs with specific examples.

AOA is still important now, especially from low tier schools. Its importance may dissipate in the future as more schools are calling to dissolve their chapters or hold elections after match day.

Research: I agree with @Davidfromcali. Its important to have the experience but not as important to have extensive pubs.

"X" Factor: This could be extensive research if you're into it. Often times, ECs in the form of community involvement, advocacy and extensive leadership can be very important. At my low-tier med school, all of my peers with top grades, boards and AOA with extensive involvement/leadership with underserved communities interviewed and matched into t25 programs. All of them noted that their community involvement were brought up and praised during their virtual interviews.

Top IM programs are basically all prestige wh*ores. They just want to brag about where their residents come from. Without the school name, you may always be less desired at those places even if you have all the other bells and whistles..

 

[flasheroonie]

In a pass-fail world, it just means that the rest of your application means that much more overall.

 

[aldol16]

It's most likely going to be based on your school (top tier schools have always enjoyed an advantage and it will be even more so now), Step 2 CK scores, and research productivity and/or other significant ECs. The one thing that has always baffled me is how they convinced students from non-top tier schools to accept this P/F Step 1 thing when it's clearly not in their favor to do so.

 

[aldol16]

Research is less of a must for IM in general, but it *is* a must for top-tier programs which are basically as competitive as surgical subs.

Probably more important to have some demonstrated research (abstracts and at least 1 publication) as opposed to the sheer quantity that surgical subspecialties require nowadays.

 

[Redpancreas]

Filterables. IM is the largest residency program in the US. Step 2CK and AOA status. Honors in IM is also probably a major factor. Prestige can get you far if you're a middling candidate but if you have mostly everything but prestige, the local prestigious program will program invite you (Drexel/NJMS -> UPenn IM, etc.)

 

[Chromium Surfer]

Filterables. IM is the largest residency. Step 2CK and AOA status. Honors in IM is also probably a major factor. Prestige can get you far if you're a middling candidate but if you have mostly everything but prestige, the local prestigious program will program invite you (Drexel/NJMS -> UPenn IM, etc.)

In the context of this thread, are you implying that someone from a Top 20 med school can still get into a top IM program as a middling candidate? If not what is your gestalt meaning of "getting far" because of prestige?

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

In the context of this thread, are you implying that someone from a Top 20 med school can still get into a top IM program as a middling candidate? If not what is your gestalt meaning of "getting far" because of prestige?

Prestige is probably confined to t10 or t5.

 

[Redpancreas]

In the context of this thread, are you implying that someone from a Top 20 med school can still get into a top IM program as a middling candidate? If not what is your gestalt meaning of "getting far" because of prestige?

Yes to the bolded.

 

[Elite Medical Prep]

New York programs can be similar to California programs in that they like to see a long-standing commitment to being in the area, so if you have lived in the state or grew up there that tends to help as a hook. If you don't, you may want to consider doing an away in the city to demonstrate geographic interest. Otherwise it'll fall mainly on Step 2 score, your letters, research and other ECs, and school reputation.

 

[IR3A4]

New York programs can be similar to California programs in that they like to see a long-standing commitment to being in the area, so if you have lived in the state or grew up there that tends to help as a hook. If you don't, you may want to consider doing an away in the city to demonstrate geographic interest. Otherwise it'll fall mainly on Step 2 score, your letters, research and other ECs, and school reputation.

Grew up, lived in, went to undergrad in so hopefully that helps!

I figured I'd also try and do an away at one of the programs there too. I know doing away at programs you want to get in have their pros and cons so I figure 1 away would be the best. If it goes super well it'd help with matching there + great NYC letter. If it goes mediocre, it's just 1 program that may be off the list.

 

[notretired]

It's most likely going to be based on your school (top tier schools have always enjoyed an advantage and it will be even more so now), Step 2 CK scores, and research productivity and/or other significant ECs. The one thing that has always baffled me is how they convinced students from non-top tier schools to accept this P/F Step 1 thing when it's clearly not in their favor to do so.

I'm not sure anyone was "convinced" to accept the rather unilateral decision made by the nbme

 

[Deltasidearm]

Anecdotally, I've talked to 5-6 IM residency directors at different programs and literally every single one said that they plan on primarily just looking at Step 2 instead of Step 1 once P/F hits.

 

[aldol16]

Anecdotally, I've talked to 5-6 IM residency directors at different programs and literally every single one said that they plan on primarily just looking at Step 2 instead of Step 1 once P/F hits.

I think there was a NEJM article surveying program directors and a majority said the same thing.

 

[Goro]

Networking, networking, networking!

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Anecdotally, I've talked to 5-6 IM residency directors at different programs and literally every single one said that they plan on primarily just looking at Step 2 instead of Step 1 once P/F hits.

I think there was a NEJM article surveying program directors and a majority said the same thing.

<sarcasm>What a surprise. It's almost like you didn't really need a survey</sarcasm>

 

[IR3A4]

Networking, networking, networking!

Any tips on networking hahahaha ;_;

This is just like one skill I am very much lacking and for some reason find it quite intimidating.

 

[Ganon]

Any tips on networking hahahaha ;_;

This is just like one skill I am very much lacking and for some reason find it quite intimidating.

Develop hobbies that people connect with!

Got my first big-boy job because of wakeboarding. Very little practical overlap between wakeboarding and ICU nursing but there you have it.

 

[IR3A4]

Develop hobbies that people connect with!

Got my first big-boy job because of wakeboarding. Very little practical overlap between wakeboarding and ICU nursing but there you have it.

idk if I should be taking advice from 1980s TV Ganon

 

[Ganon]

idk if I should be taking advice from 1980s TV Ganon

I do tend to blame everything on the moblins and wizzrobes...