What do you do when you get a poor representation grade?

[oaklandguy]

So I recently had one of the worst professors I have encountered. A couple of my friends were in the class and we share mutual feelings about the professor. The professors grades literally popped out of thin air, he never gave an explanation about them. This professor taught Composition II. I personally received an A in Comp I, and a C in Comp II. How did I manage this? I have no idea. I don't understand the inconsistency in the department, and I know that if I had a different prof I would have gotten another A. The prof was really really bad, I would explain more in depth, but I don't feel the need to.

I sent an email to the chair of the department showing my concern and complaining about the professor.

So my question is was this a poor move on my part? I am usually not the type to complain about grades, but I feel as though this was ridiculous and is a horrible representation of my effort in the class and of my writing skills. What would you have done being in my scenario and is there anything else I can do?

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[apumic]

So I recently had one of the worst professors I have encountered. A couple of my friends were in the class and we share mutual feelings about the professor. The professors grades literally popped out of thin air, he never gave an explanation about them. This professor taught Composition II. I personally received an A in Comp I, and a C in Comp II. How did I manage this? I have no idea. I don't understand the inconsistency in the department, and I know that if I had a different prof I would have gotten another A. The prof was really really bad, I would explain more in depth, but I don't feel the need to.

I sent an email to the chair of the department showing my concern and complaining about the professor.

So my question is was this a poor move on my part? I am usually not the type to complain about grades, but I feel as though this was ridiculous and is a horrible representation of my effort in the class and of my writing skills. What would you have done being in my scenario and is there anything else I can do?

Is there a legitimate complaint?

If all you had to say was what you just said, it's going to get thrown out pretty quickly. (Some professors are more difficult than others; you may have not risen to the expectations; etc.)

OTOH, if there was a legitimate issue that can be laid out and handled, that will receive better attention. Without knowing what really went on in the class it's impossible to say.

Of course, complaining to a chair unnecessarily is likely to make you enemies which could have a negative impact down the line. (Dept chairs do talk so if you alienate the English dept chair and s/he is aware of your aspirations, all it takes is a negative mention of your name to the bio or chem dept chair to potentially do quite a bit of damage down the line.)

 

[Ativanigans]

You might have a leg to stand on if the prof's grade distribution is significantly different from the rest of the department's

 

[JJMrK]

That's what's tough about subjective grading. It's all shades of gray.

It's possible your professor is using some type of comparison grading. I once had a non-science prof grade essays by giving the best one a 100, the second best a 97, third best a 95, fourth a 93, etc all the way down to 60%. If something like that is going on (or there is some other method to the madness) you may not have much luck.

 

[CoolWhipp]

You got a bad grade.

Let it sink in.

Breathe.

Tough it up and keep on pushing.

 

[oaklandguy]

I figured there wasn't much I could do about it. I should've complained earlier the teacher basically told me where I was standing in the class, B+/A- at the time and then he told me I had a 3.0 after my final paper, and all of a sudden I see a C on the transcript and I'm just blown away. The teacher refuses to give anyone a 4.0 if that will help my case to the chair. I really hope no one else takes this guy because he doesn't have a scale, he literally just grades you on how he's feeling, no rubrics for any papers and no actual written assignment, he just vaguely describes papers orally. Very unorganized, will mention an assignment and then one month later tell you that this assignment is due next class. I am ready to cope with a C in a non-science class that every other prof gives everyone A's in (considering re-taking in the summer just to show med-schools I can freaking write even though in the first semester of the class I had gotten an A). It just sucks seeing your cgpa going from great to ugh especially because of a gen-ed writing class. But yeah, my friend received the highest grade in the class and he was given a 3.4.

The e-mail I wrote had some parts that are very brutal for instance: you are doing a disjustice to the University by keeping the man on your staff, the inconsistency in the department is ludicrous, I cannot imagine spending my xxxx $ amount in a more foolish way than having paid to take this horrible prof and come out of the class knowing less than I know. Keep in mind the textbook was a Scott McCloud comic book, I mentioned this in the e-mail.

If the grade distribution is different, which I am sure it will be, what can this do for me? Does it just add credibility to my argument? It just so happens that my two worst grades in the class the professor decides not to allow us to do re-writes even though all of our other papers had the option of doing a re-write afterward. It also happens that when handing back papers with grades, the only red mark on my paper was the word effect underlined because I was supposed to use the word affect, yet I managed a 1.5 on that paper... FML. If it was a piss poor performance on my part I wouldn't be complaining, like I've gotte a C before and I've gotten a 4.0 and I know the difference and I know for a fact that this class shouldn't be my worst grade in undergrad. To top it all off, I met with the professor in his office on a few occasions to discuss my grade and he was telling me he wanted to write me an LOR... LMAO that dude is going no where near my application, what is he gonna write on the LOR the student is a C student according to me so he belongs in your med-school? Dude is a joke, end rant.

 

[orthomyxo]

IMO, the OP should definitely have the right to complain about a prof if he thinks that they graded unfairly. After all, you are paying to go to the school. But, I think that writing to the department head will only cause more harm than good because I doubt they'll change your C.

 

[IDoIt4Love]

trust me you're not alone; I'm sure many of us have been there. If there are a good number of people complaining, and/or people have been complaining to the chair THROUGHOUT the semester, then I definitely think you have a shot at being heard; the prof may be forced to curve or something. If this is the first time you're complaining and/or you're the only one complaining, then they may not do anything about it. Either way you really don't have anything to lose by voicing a legitimate complaint.

one caveat though: if the professor you are complaining about is IN THE DEPARTMENT YOU ARE MAJORING IN, then I'd be a lot more cautious. you don't want to have a bad name in the department. but if not, complain away and good luck!

 

[Tatastrophy]

I am not sure what you mean by "out of thin air"...you are being really vague in your post so I am going to address two scenarious:
-If you disagree with the grades he gave you on paper (which resulted in a crappy overall grade....) then see if you can have another prof read them over and give you feedback on what they would have given you. If they disagree with your first prof-you may have a case. If not...you gotta realize that different subjects taught at college level are taught for those who excel (even though my HS classes were exceptionally demanding, they were a piece of cake compared to the classes I took for my minor)-english just may not be your thing.
-Another scenario is that you did well on his papers and participated in class (believe me, they care whether you contribute to discussion). But come grade time your mark for the class is way off-bring that to the attention of the appropriate people...ask the prof himself what happened or appeal.
Other than that-you are pretty much stuck with what you earned.

The e-mail I wrote had some parts that are very brutal for instance: you are doing a disjustice to the University by keeping the man on your staff, the inconsistency in the department is ludicrous, I cannot imagine spending my xxxx $ amount in a more foolish way than having paid to take this horrible prof and come out of the class knowing less than I know. Keep in mind the textbook was a Scott McCloud comic book, I mentioned this in the e-mail.

upon reading your later posts, i saw this and am pretty sure that you completely killed your case. first rule of a persuasive essay-appeal to your opponent.

 

[csmittyB]

What would you have done being in my scenario...?

Gotten angry---->Chilled out---->accepted it---->moved on. I wouldn't have written the chair b/c I doubt that it would change anything.

If you don't feel the grade is representative, retake the class with another teacher.

It seems like you have finally learned that LIFE IS NOT ALWAYS FAIR.

 

[apumic]

upon reading your later posts, i saw this and am pretty sure that you completely killed your case. first rule of a persuasive essay-appear to your opponent.

Have you read anything by Robert Cialdini?

I'm assuming you meant appeal, not appear, although appearing before your "opponent" in person is probably more effective than writing a letter. Honestly, though, the whole "opponent" mentality is ineffective in and of itself. Cialdini is a world-renowned expert on persuasion. His book Persuasion: Science and Practice is probably the "Bible" of persuasion (and resisting persuasion). For the OP to get what he wants, Cialdini describes 6 weapons of persuasion:

• Reciprocity - People tend to return a favor. Thus, the pervasiveness of free samples in marketing. In his conferences, he often uses the example of Ethiopia providing thousands of dollars in humanitarian aid to Mexico just after the 1985 earthquake, despite Ethiopia suffering from a crippling famine and civil war at the time. Ethiopia had been reciprocating for the diplomatic support Mexico provided when Italy invaded Ethiopia in 1937.

• Commitment and Consistency - If people commit, orally or in writing, to an idea or goal, they are more likely to honor that commitment. Even if the original incentive or motivation is removed after they have already agreed, they will continue to honor the agreement. For example, in car sales, suddenly raising the price at the last moment works because the buyer has already decided to buy. See cognitive dissonance.
• Social Proof - People will do things that they see other people are doing. For example, in one experiment, one or more confederates would look up into the sky; bystanders would then look up into the sky to see what they were seeing. At one point this experiment aborted, as so many people were looking up that they stopped traffic. See conformity, and the Asch conformity experiments.
• Authority - People will tend to obey authority figures, even if they are asked to perform objectionable acts. Cialdini cites incidents, such as the Milgram experiments in the early 1960s and the My Lai massacre.
• Liking - People are easily persuaded by other people that they like. Cialdini cites the marketing of Tupperware in what might now be called viral marketing. People were more likely to buy if they liked the person selling it to them. Some of the many biases favoring more attractive people are discussed. See physical attractiveness stereotype.
• Scarcity - Perceived scarcity will generate demand. For example, saying offers are available for a "limited time only" encourages sales.

Of those, reciprocity, liking, consistency, and social proof would all be helpful here. Of course, coming off as the chair's enemy is going to make it very easy for the chair to resist any persuasive attempts.

 

[Tatastrophy]

Have you read anything by Robert Cialdini?

I'm assuming you meant appeal, not appear, although appearing before your "opponent" in person is probably more effective than writing a letter. Honestly, though, the whole "opponent" mentality is ineffective in and of itself. Cialdini is a world-renowned expert on persuasion. His book Persuasion: Science and Practice is probably the "Bible" of persuasion (and resisting persuasion). For the OP to get what he wants, Cialdini describes 6 weapons of persuasion:

• Reciprocity - People tend to return a favor. Thus, the pervasiveness of free samples in marketing. In his conferences, he often uses the example of Ethiopia providing thousands of dollars in humanitarian aid to Mexico just after the 1985 earthquake, despite Ethiopia suffering from a crippling famine and civil war at the time. Ethiopia had been reciprocating for the diplomatic support Mexico provided when Italy invaded Ethiopia in 1937.

• Commitment and Consistency - If people commit, orally or in writing, to an idea or goal, they are more likely to honor that commitment. Even if the original incentive or motivation is removed after they have already agreed, they will continue to honor the agreement. For example, in car sales, suddenly raising the price at the last moment works because the buyer has already decided to buy. See cognitive dissonance.
• Social Proof - People will do things that they see other people are doing. For example, in one experiment, one or more confederates would look up into the sky; bystanders would then look up into the sky to see what they were seeing. At one point this experiment aborted, as so many people were looking up that they stopped traffic. See conformity, and the Asch conformity experiments.
• Authority - People will tend to obey authority figures, even if they are asked to perform objectionable acts. Cialdini cites incidents, such as the Milgram experiments in the early 1960s and the My Lai massacre.
• Liking - People are easily persuaded by other people that they like. Cialdini cites the marketing of Tupperware in what might now be called viral marketing. People were more likely to buy if they liked the person selling it to them. Some of the many biases favoring more attractive people are discussed. See physical attractiveness stereotype.
• Scarcity - Perceived scarcity will generate demand. For example, saying offers are available for a "limited time only" encourages sales.

Of those, reciprocity, liking, consistency, and social proof would all be helpful here. Of course, coming off as the chair's enemy is going to make it very easy for the chair to resist any persuasive attempts.

haha yea, I did mean appeal....used "opponent" in a sense that he is someone that is not likely to take your side without you presenting a strong case for yourself...which I would assume would include looking like a reasonable and humble young man that shows respect to people who he seeks help from.
I think we have the same point-don't piss off the people whose help you require.
Never read Cialdini's work, seems like it could be useful for future reference.

 

[JJMrK]

I figured there wasn't much I could do about it. I should've complained earlier the teacher basically told me where I was standing in the class, B+/A- at the time and then he told me I had a 3.0 after my final paper, and all of a sudden I see a C on the transcript and I'm just blown away. The teacher refuses to give anyone a 4.0 if that will help my case to the chair. I really hope no one else takes this guy because he doesn't have a scale, he literally just grades you on how he's feeling, no rubrics for any papers and no actual written assignment, he just vaguely describes papers orally. Very unorganized, will mention an assignment and then one month later tell you that this assignment is due next class. I am ready to cope with a C in a non-science class that every other prof gives everyone A's in (considering re-taking in the summer just to show med-schools I can freaking write even though in the first semester of the class I had gotten an A). It just sucks seeing your cgpa going from great to ugh especially because of a gen-ed writing class. But yeah, my friend received the highest grade in the class and he was given a 3.4.

The e-mail I wrote had some parts that are very brutal for instance: you are doing a disjustice to the University by keeping the man on your staff, the inconsistency in the department is ludicrous, I cannot imagine spending my xxxx $ amount in a more foolish way than having paid to take this horrible prof and come out of the class knowing less than I know. Keep in mind the textbook was a Scott McCloud comic book, I mentioned this in the e-mail.

If the grade distribution is different, which I am sure it will be, what can this do for me? Does it just add credibility to my argument? It just so happens that my two worst grades in the class the professor decides not to allow us to do re-writes even though all of our other papers had the option of doing a re-write afterward. It also happens that when handing back papers with grades, the only red mark on my paper was the word effect underlined because I was supposed to use the word affect, yet I managed a 1.5 on that paper... FML. If it was a piss poor performance on my part I wouldn't be complaining, like I've gotte a C before and I've gotten a 4.0 and I know the difference and I know for a fact that this class shouldn't be my worst grade in undergrad. To top it all off, I met with the professor in his office on a few occasions to discuss my grade and he was telling me he wanted to write me an LOR... LMAO that dude is going no where near my application, what is he gonna write on the LOR the student is a C student according to me so he belongs in your med-school? Dude is a joke, end rant.

I don't think you helped yourself. That's pretty strongly worded.

 

[apumic]

haha yea, I did mean appeal....used "opponent" in a sense that he is someone that is not likely to take your side without you presenting a strong case for yourself...which I would assume would include looking like a reasonable and humble young man that shows respect to people who he seeks help from.
I think we have the same point-don't piss off the people whose help you require.
Never read Cialdini's work, seems like it could be useful for future reference.

Yeah, I figured we really meant the same thing.

Cialdini's stuff is interesting for sure. He's basically an applied social psychologist who has spent his life doing marketing research, but his ideas have wide and interesting applications both in and outside business and the marketplace. What much of it comes down to is the 6 "weapons of influence" listed above and how each one works, including when it works best and strategies for not succumbing to its influence in one's own life.


OP, my suggestion in the future would be to something along the lines of the following (this is roughly what I generally do when I am in a similar situation and I am sure I have a strong case):

1) Run the situation by a few other people (typically trusted friends and maybe a mentor who is outside the situation) -- this gives me perspective and lets me cool down so I don't come off irrational, heated, etc.
2) Talk with the person directly involved (e.g., the prof here) and get the facts -- make sure I have it straight; if resolved, stop; if not resolved, consider whether continuing is truly worth it and if it is, go onto 3 (otherwise let it go)
3) Run the facts by an outside person (a mentor of some sort; someone older and wiser)
4) Plan out how I can present this and how I can be on the supervisor/chair/whatever's side
5) If the person has time for me, Present my problem to the person in authority with an emphasis on how it will help them (never threatening, never insulting, never "intimidating")
6) Present a solution or ask how "we" can solve it (in other words, present the problem and offer my help in solving it -- brainstorm together, ask questions, etc.)
7) Never stay too long and never press too hard -- be socially sensitive as well as sensitive to the person's time, busyness, etc. (don't approach this right before grades are due, for instance -- which pretty much screws you over if you're arguing a grade at the end of the semester but that's really just one more reason to pursue problems early on instead of procrastinating solutions)

 

[oaklandguy]

Thanks for all the advice everyone, I was quite angry when I wrote the email to the chair and it probably wasn't the best call on my part. I was angry because the professor had lead me to believe that I would be getting a different grade in the class than the one I received. When a prof tells you that you are at a 3.3-3.5 in the class and then you see below a 3.0 it really shakes you up especially when you have a strong final project and you did extra credit at the end of the class.

For now I will speak with the Chair of the department of my major and let him know my situation this is not the head of the Writing Department. Hopefully he will have some advice, if not I will take my case elsewhere. I will hope to get a response from the Chair of the Writing Department. I will suggest to my friends that they write an e-mail to the Chair as well. If nothing gets done it is not the end of the world by any means, I honestly just don't want other students to have to go through what I had to go through and waste their time and money on a "pointless" class with this professor when there are many other options. I still cannot comprehend my A in first semester and C in second semester. Then again, writing is all subjective I guess.

 

[oaklandguy]

Alright so I've gotten four people to e-mail the chair of the department (I work fast), I also have read through the Senate meetings reported grade distributions and the teacher's grades of the class are (from the grades I know that people have acquired in his class which is a 20 person class) definitely not in accordance with the University and the Departments grade distributions. I wonder if they can take the average grade in that class for this semester and make the average grade from this class the same as that? He is also not a professor, not an assistant prof, he's a special lecturer which probably means he is of very little use to the university, he teaches about 3 courses a semester. I don't really care to get the guy fired or not, I just want a grade that properly represents my writing skill and effort in the class and the three people I have spoken with feel as though they have been robbed when it comes to their grade.

 

[apumic]

Alright so I've gotten four people to e-mail the chair of the department (I work fast), I also have read through the Senate meetings reported grade distributions and the teacher's grades of the class are (from the grades I know that people have acquired in his class which is a 20 person class) definitely not in accordance with the University and the Departments grade distributions. I wonder if they can take the average grade in that class for this semester and make the average grade from this class the same as that? He is also not a professor, not an assistant prof, he's a special lecturer which probably means he is of very little use to the university, he teaches about 3 courses a semester. I don't really care to get the guy fired or not, I just want a grade that properly represents my writing skill and effort in the class and the three people I have spoken with feel as though they have been robbed when it comes to their grade.

Do you have someone in your group that did well in the course? (relative to the mean -- preferably the top person or close to him/her)
If every complaining is someone w/ a C it's not going to carry the weight of a top student complaining. A top student either in that dept or a top student from that class complaining will gather more attention simply b/c that person has credibility w/ the dept.

 

[oaklandguy]

Do you have someone in your group that did well in the course? (relative to the mean -- preferably the top person or close to him/her)
If every complaining is someone w/ a C it's not going to carry the weight of a top student complaining. A top student either in that dept or a top student from that class complaining will gather more attention simply b/c that person has credibility w/ the dept.

Someone who got a solid grade in that class 3.0>x>3.5 is complaining as well. They have the highest grade in the class out of the 5-6 people I have spoken to from the class. The class had 20 people in it. It is a mandatory class which every student at the University must take in order to get a degree from the University, but there were no writing majors in the class. I let the head of the department know my GPA and the fact that I had gotten an A in the earlier section of the class and have gotten A's in other writing classes such as a Philosophy class and an other class that was classified as a Writing Intensive course. The thing is most of the people that I have spoken with have received grades that are sub 2.0, so I don't know how much weight it's going to have but even the sub 2.0 students had received greater than 3.0 grades in their first semester of the course. The Chair has not responded to any emails yet, but we will wait and see.

 

[Tatastrophy]

wow OP.
I don't know whether you deserved that C or not but from what you wrote-I'd say you have no class of sense of foresight. You, yourself say that this is not the end of the world and in the same breath suggest that you hope that your professor gets fired.
It is a C, shut up and take a seat.

 

[oaklandguy]

wow OP.
I don't know whether you deserved that C or not but from what you wrote-I'd say you have no class of sense of foresight. You, yourself say that this is not the end of the world and in the same breath suggest that you hope that your professor gets fired.
It is a C, shut up and take a seat.

I do not want the teacher to get fired, I believe I just stated that I do not want them to get fired. If I stated that I wanted this teacher to be fired earlier I did it out of pure anger and spite. Realistically when I first saw that grade I pondered and wondered how I could get a C in that class when the majority of my papers were A's. I had two poor performances in the class, but only missed 2 class periods and always participated in the class. I also made sure I turned in all my assignments in a timely fashion. I cannot look to the syllabus to see the grading scale to his class because there isn't a grading scale to his class, so I am left in awe of the fact that I can manage 4.0's in classes like gen chem, orgo, and bio, and be sitting on a C in a gen-ed writing class. I know that those classes have nothing to do with writing, but I also obtained an A in the first semester of writing, so there must be some type of inconsistency in the department and that is my gripe.

I have to realize that it is not the end of the world because there is a large chance that the grade won't get changed and the fact is I still have a solid GPA for me to work with and time to improve it. Plus, I've gotten a C before in a math class so I know what it's like and I know what type of effort is deserving of a C and what is deserving of an A. And again, I am not the only one who is sending complaints about this professor, there are now five other people sending e-mails to the Chair, that must stand for something.

 

[ahmcadams]

The e-mail I wrote had some parts that are very brutal for instance: you are doing a disjustice to the University by keeping the man on your staff, the inconsistency in the department is ludicrous, I cannot imagine spending my xxxx $ amount in a more foolish way than having paid to take this horrible prof and come out of the class knowing less than I know. Keep in mind the textbook was a Scott McCloud comic book, I mentioned this in the e-mail.

I really hope you're poorly paraphrasing your e-mail to the dept chair and chose your words far more diplomatically than you've recounted here. Insulting the instructor and, by proxy, the department, is just awful. The instructor might have higher, yet ultimately fair, grading standards, you might be overrating your own abilities, or perhaps this really is a disjustice [sic]. Regardless, you're not doing yourself any favors with that sort of hastily conceived message.

Your worst-case scenario was initially a bad grade with a small chance of department intervention. If you make an enemy of the administration, even in a field peripheral to medicine/science, you open yourself up to far less desirable outcomes.

 

[oaklandguy]

Well the Chair emailed me back. He basically said that he wants to add my e-mail to the list of reviews for the professor because apparently they read through them and decide on professors based on the reviews (I highly doubt that it plays an extensive role, but I believe him for some reason), and he said as far as reviewing my grade he wants me to talk over specific grades with the instructor, so I will do that. If the instructor does not comply the chair wants me to file a written complaint and meet with the Chair or chief adviser. Depending on the meeting if the chair or chief adviser cannot do anything for me he said that a grievance committee will be formed to listen to both sides of the story and to settle the dispute.

I will for sure follow through with this because I feel as though the worst that can happen is I sit with a C and feel as though I have a decent argument to make due to the overall grade distribution of the class.

I again appreciate everyone's advice. Wish me luck.

 

[s1lver]

Ouch. I can imagine going from a C to an A but not the other way around unless you didn't do half of the required writing assignments.

English Composition is one subject where RateMyProfessor would have helped.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

disjustice is not a word.

you deserve that C for composition.

 

[oaklandguy]

I use spell check before I turn papers in and that is not an exact quote from the e-mail, I think I said disservice or something of that nature, but anyways he responded.

Yeah, I should've used RateMyProfessors.com, I had signed up for a certain professor and the University switched up all the professors last minute and all the classes were full anyways.

 

[Dannyw]

WOW.......

for real? I would never think to do a thing like this. You should be embarassed of yourself.

 

[oaklandguy]

WOW.......

for real? I would never think to do a thing like this. You should be embarassed of yourself.

To e-mail a chair because a prof told me I had an B+ in his class and he ends up giving me a C even though I got an A on my final paper? You seriously wouldn't do anything?

 

[298609]

Keep in mind the textbook was a Scott McCloud comic book, I mentioned this in the e-mail.

what's wrong with graphic novels?

I could def. see a book like Blankets being used for a college english class.


ps: don't write emails to people who are important when you're still angry. write a letter, rip it up, go to sleep, then write another, less angry one in the morning.

 

[oaklandguy]

what's wrong with graphic novels?

I could def. see a book like Blankets being used for a college english class.


ps: don't write emails to people who are important when you're still angry. write a letter, rip it up, go to sleep, then write another, less angry one in the morning.

I personally feel as though the fact that the only book assigned for the class being a comic book that has very little if nothing to do with improving writing skill shows the professors lack of care to improve his students' writing skills. Either way, it was part of why I disliked this class. And Yes, I should never have submitted that e-mail. But, the Chair responded much more civilly than I did.

Now, I finally have the grade distributions, much thanks to MyEdu.com, and I have found out that this certain professor gives out 8% A's, 48% B's, 30% C's, 12% D's, 2% F's. The average for the Department is 33% A's and 42% B's. One teacher last semester gave 89% A's. 8% compared to 89%, I wonder if anyone in the department could look me in the eyes and say I have an equal opportunity at receiving an A having taken the teacher I took. Hopefully these charts help my case.

And once again, I thank everyone for the advice, especially the grade distribution advice, I probably wouldn't have known that grade distribution would be so differentiated between profs.

 

[apumic]

I personally feel as though the fact that the only book assigned for the class being a comic book that has very little if nothing to do with improving writing skill shows the professors lack of care to improve his students' writing skills. Either way, it was part of why I disliked this class. And Yes, I should never have submitted that e-mail. But, the Chair responded much more civilly than I did.

Now, I finally have the grade distributions, much thanks to MyEdu.com, and I have found out that this certain professor gives out 8% A's, 48% B's, 30% C's, 12% D's, 2% F's. The average for the Department is 33% A's and 42% B's. One teacher last semester gave 89% A's. 8% compared to 89%, I wonder if anyone in the department could look me in the eyes and say I have an equal opportunity at receiving an A having taken the teacher I took. Hopefully these charts help my case.

And once again, I thank everyone for the advice, especially the grade distribution advice, I probably wouldn't have known that grade distribution would be so differentiated between profs.

So what you're saying is that this prof doesn't inflate grades and gives grades in a well-distributed manner when much of the dept inflates grades. Nope, actually hurts your case. He's doing his job.

 

[Seraph 84]

I suck it up.

I don't care to get straight A's in college.

 

[oaklandguy]

So what you're saying is that this prof doesn't inflate grades and gives grades in a well-distributed manner when much of the dept inflates grades. Nope, actually hurts your case. He's doing his job.

The entire department is wrong and he's right? Seriously dude? Let me guess, my organic profs were wrong, my gen chem profs were wrong, my bio profs were wrong, my physics prof is wrong, my Arabic profs were wrong, my philosophy prof was wrong, my first writing prof was wrong, but this guy is right. I'm a C student and everyone giving me A's is just inflating grades. The overall grade distribution that the OU senate puts out is 15% A's. The whole institution is wrong, but this professor is the one doing his job.

 

[apumic]

The entire department is wrong and he's right? Seriously dude? Let me guess, my organic profs were wrong, my gen chem profs were wrong, my bio profs were wrong, my physics prof is wrong, my Arabic profs were wrong, my philosophy prof was wrong, my first writing prof was wrong, but this guy is right. I'm a C student and everyone giving me A's is just inflating grades. The overall grade distribution that the OU senate puts out is 15% A's. The whole institution is wrong, but this professor is the one doing his job.

Now, I finally have the grade distributions, much thanks to MyEdu.com, and I have found out that this certain professor gives out 8% A's, 48% B's, 30% C's, 12% D's, 2% F's. The average for the Department is 33% A's and 42% B's. One teacher last semester gave 89% A's. 8% compared to 89%, I wonder if anyone in the department could look me in the eyes and say I have an equal opportunity at receiving an A having taken the teacher I took. Hopefully these charts help my case.

8/48/30/12/2 is a pretty generous distribution, really. It's slightly skewed in the negative direction (that is, the mean is around a B-). The rest of the school supposedly gives out 15% As, which is on the high side but definitely nowhere near the 30% you're saying the dept does as a whole. (My guess would be that the dept as a whole gives out more As in its upper division courses as most depts have this trend since 300 & 400 lvl courses are generally only taken by majors.) If this prof gives 8% As, I'd say he's right about where he should be.

Of the courses I took last semester, a quick glance at the distributions tells me about 10-15% got As, 25-30% got Bs, 35-40% got Cs, 10-15% got Ds, and the rest failed in each class (the means were around a C+ or B-). In a freshmen liberal arts course I TA'd for a couple of years, the average grade was an 82%, not that many people got As and most got Bs, while some ended up w/ Cs, Ds, and Fs.

My guess would be you may not be as strong a writer as you had assumed. You can't expect As in everything but you seem to feel entitled to an A in everything.

 

[oaklandguy]

8/48/30/12/2 is a pretty generous distribution, really. It's slightly skewed in the negative direction (that is, the mean is around a B-). The rest of the school supposedly gives out 15% As, which is on the high side but definitely nowhere near the 30% you're saying the dept does as a whole. (My guess would be that the dept as a whole gives out more As in its upper division courses as most depts have this trend since 300 & 400 lvl courses are generally only taken by majors.) If this prof gives 8% As, I'd say he's right about where he should be.

Of the courses I took last semester, a quick glance at the distributions tells me about 10-15% got As, 25-30% got Bs, 35-40% got Cs, 10-15% got Ds, and the rest failed in each class (the means were around a C+ or B-). In a freshmen liberal arts course I TA'd for a couple of years, the average grade was an 82%, not that many people got As and most got Bs, while some ended up w/ Cs, Ds, and Fs.

My guess would be you may not be as strong a writer as you had assumed. You can't expect As in everything but you seem to feel entitled to an A in everything.

Sorry if I did not state this earlier, the 8% is for the teacher as a whole, the 33% is for the 100 level courses which only 3 are offered, level 101, 150, and 160. I'm not saying I'm the best writer in the world, but lets be realistic, other classes involve writing. In fact there are courses classified as Writing Intensive courses and in one of these courses I have received a 4.0. I also received an A in the Writing 150 class, and a 4.0 in a Philosophy class whose total grade consisted of 3 papers.

I know it may seem like just another pre-med complaining, but the reality is that 6 students that I have spoken with did 2 grades better in their previous writing course. I.E. dropped from an A to a C, or B to a D, or C to a F. If it was just me I would understand that I am a poor writer. But when the entire class suffers this hard of a grade drop, it means something. I know what it takes to get an A in Writing because I have done it before. I also know why someone would deserve a C, because believe me I've gotten them and from my experience I definitely don't feel as though I deserve a C.

And what pisses me off the most is that the prof told me I had a B+ in his class halfway through the semester so that I wouldn't complain. He also told my buddy he had an A and then my buddy ended up getting a B. Apparently my essays were good enough to get me a full-ride scholarship, same with my buddy with the B. (You have to write essays and give like a speech at a banquet thing for the Presidential Scholarship award at my school). My bud has also won quite a few writing awards back in high school, so if he's not an A writer then who is? This prof probably would've given Shakespeare a B too, I'm pretty sure he grades on how much he likes you as a person more-so than how far you've progressed in your writing skill.

 

[apumic]

It's really all conjecture at this point. You probably write fine. If you got an A the first semester and a C the second, that does seem odd. I have, however, seen papers by some students who were seniors at the time and seriously wondered how they graduated HS, much less got into college, with their level of writing. (This was at a highly selective/top 50 UG, albeit I don't really think ranking UGs has much value.) Sometimes students really have no idea their level of ability/skill in writing (or lack thereof). I do not think you are one of those students but it is always something to consider. OTOH, the fact that this prof gave grade estimates so far above what he actually awarded each student seems quite strange.

 

[riverjib]

I figured there wasn't much I could do about it. I should've complained earlier the teacher basically told me where I was standing in the class, B+/A- at the time and then he told me I had a 3.0 after my final paper, and all of a sudden I see a C on the transcript and I'm just blown away. The teacher refuses to give anyone a 4.0 if that will help my case to the chair. I really hope no one else takes this guy because he doesn't have a scale, he literally just grades you on how he's feeling, no rubrics for any papers and no actual written assignment, he just vaguely describes papers orally. Very unorganized, will mention an assignment and then one month later tell you that this assignment is due next class. I am ready to cope with a C in a non-science class that every other prof gives everyone A's in (considering re-taking in the summer just to show med-schools I can freaking write even though in the first semester of the class I had gotten an A). It just sucks seeing your cgpa going from great to ugh especially because of a gen-ed writing class. But yeah, my friend received the highest grade in the class and he was given a 3.4.

The e-mail I wrote had some parts that are very brutal for instance: you are doing a disjustice to the University by keeping the man on your staff, the inconsistency in the department is ludicrous, I cannot imagine spending my xxxx $ amount in a more foolish way than having paid to take this horrible prof and come out of the class knowing less than I know. Keep in mind the textbook was a Scott McCloud comic book, I mentioned this in the e-mail.

If the grade distribution is different, which I am sure it will be, what can this do for me? Does it just add credibility to my argument? It just so happens that my two worst grades in the class the professor decides not to allow us to do re-writes even though all of our other papers had the option of doing a re-write afterward. It also happens that when handing back papers with grades, the only red mark on my paper was the word effect underlined because I was supposed to use the word affect, yet I managed a 1.5 on that paper... FML. If it was a piss poor performance on my part I wouldn't be complaining, like I've gotte a C before and I've gotten a 4.0 and I know the difference and I know for a fact that this class shouldn't be my worst grade in undergrad. To top it all off, I met with the professor in his office on a few occasions to discuss my grade and he was telling me he wanted to write me an LOR... LMAO that dude is going no where near my application, what is he gonna write on the LOR the student is a C student according to me so he belongs in your med-school? Dude is a joke, end rant.

I'm going to be honest with you, and you're not going to like it. If your writing here is any indication of how you write, you deserve a C. English comp is considered a joke by pre-meds who easily ace some tough subjects, but if taught properly, it requires tremendous insight and command of the English language. If he had you analyze childrens' books, that would not diminish the quality of the course. If anything, it shows ingenuity and more importantly, that he's concerned about the quality of your analysis and writing than he is in making sure you can decipher the works of writers like Shakespeare and Virginia Woolfe, who different but are decidedly difficult to read.

Your performance in a non-science course that is supposed to be "easy" is not based upon reality. These professors don't care who you are, or how many A's you have in physics or chemistry. You're insulting English majors everywhere. I'm a science geek, and I generally regard my non-science courses as necessary but annoying, and I always hope that they won't require as much work for 3 credits as my 6-hour pharmacology lab (and subsequent 20-page lab reports) requires for 2 credits. Sometimes, they comply with my wishes. When they don't, I appreciate that I'm being forced to actually learn something. I'm guessing you're a state school student, like I am. At schools like Yale and Johns Hopkins, we'd be killing ourselves and spending nights in the library just to produce a 10 page paper that is worthy of an A-.

This is probably half the reason the Ivies and similar private schools still are so prestigious...you have to treat a 3-credit poly sci or English course like you treat organic chem. I would struggle to maintain a 3.5 as an English or psych major at such schools. Writing was always my forte, but it requires more independent and in-depth analysis than the sciences do. And that's excluding basics like perfect grammar and diction, which you haven't mastered.

So suck it up! And appreciate that someone in your school expects you to be literate beyond your expectations. Don't be such a snob about "easy" classes. Treat them with respect. And when you do have an "easy A" class, be thankful that you didn't have to work as hard as you should have to work.

That said, unless you have REAL grounds for complaint, shut your mouth. It will only reflect poorly on you. I have concrete knowledge that the TAs in my medical physiology course were literally giving exams and quizzes to certain students ahead of time. One student in my class (a medical student) actually emailed me a PDF of the quiz the day before it was given. It disgusted me, because I spent the whole semester studying as hard for those four credits as I did for the other 17. But I didn't say anything, because the minute you start complaining, you gain a bad reputation faster than you ever could have legitimately earning straight A's. Many professors are unfair, but you're not going to change that by complaining. You're better off just dealing with it, moving on, and learning from your own mistakes.

 

[riverjib]

I figured there wasn't much I could do about it. I should've complained earlier the teacher basically told me where I was standing in the class, B+/A- at the time and then he told me I had a 3.0 after my final paper, and all of a sudden I see a C on the transcript and I'm just blown away. The teacher refuses to give anyone a 4.0 if that will help my case to the chair. I really hope no one else takes this guy because he doesn't have a scale, he literally just grades you on how he's feeling, no rubrics for any papers and no actual written assignment, he just vaguely describes papers orally. Very unorganized, will mention an assignment and then one month later tell you that this assignment is due next class. I am ready to cope with a C in a non-science class that every other prof gives everyone A's in (considering re-taking in the summer just to show med-schools I can freaking write even though in the first semester of the class I had gotten an A). It just sucks seeing your cgpa going from great to ugh especially because of a gen-ed writing class. But yeah, my friend received the highest grade in the class and he was given a 3.4.

The e-mail I wrote had some parts that are very brutal for instance: you are doing a disjustice to the University by keeping the man on your staff, the inconsistency in the department is ludicrous, I cannot imagine spending my xxxx $ amount in a more foolish way than having paid to take this horrible prof and come out of the class knowing less than I know. Keep in mind the textbook was a Scott McCloud comic book, I mentioned this in the e-mail.

If the grade distribution is different, which I am sure it will be, what can this do for me? Does it just add credibility to my argument? It just so happens that my two worst grades in the class the professor decides not to allow us to do re-writes even though all of our other papers had the option of doing a re-write afterward. It also happens that when handing back papers with grades, the only red mark on my paper was the word effect underlined because I was supposed to use the word affect, yet I managed a 1.5 on that paper... FML. If it was a piss poor performance on my part I wouldn't be complaining, like I've gotte a C before and I've gotten a 4.0 and I know the difference and I know for a fact that this class shouldn't be my worst grade in undergrad. To top it all off, I met with the professor in his office on a few occasions to discuss my grade and he was telling me he wanted to write me an LOR... LMAO that dude is going no where near my application, what is he gonna write on the LOR the student is a C student according to me so he belongs in your med-school? Dude is a joke, end rant.

I'm going to be honest with you, and you're not going to like it. If your writing here is any indication of how you write, you deserve a C. English comp is considered a joke by pre-meds who easily ace some tough subjects, but if taught properly, it requires tremendous insight and command of the English language. If he had you analyze childrens' books, that would not diminish the quality of the course. If anything, it shows ingenuity and more importantly, that he's concerned about the quality of your analysis and writing than he is in making sure you can decipher the works of writers like Shakespeare and Virginia Woolfe, who different but are decidedly difficult to read.

Your performance in a non-science course that is supposed to be "easy" is not based upon reality. These professors don't care who you are, or how many A's you have in physics or chemistry. You're insulting English majors everywhere. I'm a science geek, and I generally regard my non-science courses as necessary but annoying, and I always hope that they won't require as much work for 3 credits as my 6-hour pharmacology lab (and subsequent 20-page lab reports) requires for 2 credits. Sometimes, they comply with my wishes. When they don't, I appreciate that I'm being forced to actually learn something. I'm guessing you're a state school student, like I am. At schools like Yale and Johns Hopkins, we'd be killing ourselves and spending nights in the library just to produce a 10 page paper that is worthy of an A-.

This is probably half the reason the Ivies and similar private schools still are so prestigious...you have to treat a 3-credit poly sci or English course like you treat organic chem. I would struggle to maintain a 3.5 as an English or psych major at such schools. Writing was always my forte, but it requires more independent and in-depth analysis than the sciences do. And that's excluding basics like perfect grammar and diction, which you haven't mastered.

So suck it up! And appreciate that someone in your school expects you to be literate beyond your expectations. Don't be such a snob about "easy" classes. Treat them with respect. And when you do have an "easy A" class, be thankful that you didn't have to work as hard as you should have to work.

That said, unless you have REAL grounds for complaint, shut your mouth. It will only reflect poorly on you. I have concrete knowledge that the TAs in my medical physiology course were literally giving exams and quizzes to certain students ahead of time. One student in my class (a medical student) actually emailed me a PDF of the quiz the day before it was given. It disgusted me, because I spent the whole semester studying as hard for those four credits as I did for the other 17. But I didn't say anything, because the minute you start complaining, you gain a bad reputation faster than you ever could have legitimately earning straight A's. Many professors are unfair, but you're not going to change that by complaining. You're better off just dealing with it, moving on, and learning from your own mistakes.

 

[298609]

I personally feel as though the fact that the only book assigned for the class being a comic book that has very little if nothing to do with improving writing skill shows the professors lack of care to improve his students' writing skills. Either way, it was part of why I disliked this class. And Yes, I should never have submitted that e-mail. But, the Chair responded much more civilly than I did.

[/B] 8% compared to 89%, I wonder if anyone in the department could look me in the eyes and say I have an equal opportunity at receiving an A having taken the teacher I took. Hopefully these charts help my case.

1) how many books do most english classes give you that are strictly about writing? tell me if i'm wrong; i've never taken an english class where the book has been a how-to book ...rather than a piece of literature. (except for creative writing, which was an upper upper upper level class and he gave it for recommended reading)

2) what the professor chooses to give you to read is most likely the last thing to show disrespect to his students. he has to like the book enough to put up with teaching it time after time. it's most likely not a terrible book. you don't learn to write by reading about writing. you learn to write from reading others words and WRITING.

anyway that's a little beside the point, i just think it kind of comes across like you have an attitude to begin with about the class and english as a subject.


3) your main goal in any classroom should NOT be getting the A. It doesn't matter if this is a pre req or not. your main goal SHOULD be learning as much as you can (which usually corresponds to getting an A). if one teacher gives out the 8% curve (which, as others have said, is actually pretty fair) then he is pushing you to LEARN MORE FROM HIM to get the grade everyone wants.

believe me, i feel for you...i hate getting non-a's as much as everyone else here, but if you present your case like you did up there^ the chair is going to think you are grade-grubbing.

it used to be few and far between got A's in english...it's considered by many to be a harder topic than some sciences (have you ever read a gen chem text? try reading it outloud. it's worse). C+A-->B average in college english is pretty darn good. if your sGPA is good, you'll be fine.

 

[Optimalsauce]

The e-mail I wrote had some parts that are very brutal for instance: you are doing a disjustice to the University by keeping the man on your staff, the inconsistency in the department is ludicrous, I cannot imagine spending my xxxx $ amount in a more foolish way than having paid to take this horrible prof and come out of the class knowing less than I know. Keep in mind the textbook was a Scott McCloud comic book, I mentioned this in the e-mail.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=8822194&postcount=142

Ouch. Faculty? I have never undermined OU's faculty. It's administration on the other hand? The faculty even hates the administration. Again, that was a different thread. The students, you probably know more than I do, but I have yet to meet any pre-med students with the stunning statistics you are stating who have seem to be sociable. The way I went about saying it may have been harsh and demeaning and I apologize for this, for the 5th time now? My anonymity is not a problem, I stand by everything I say, and I highly doubt you would know who I am if you ever saw me. And if you did please say something to me.

Oaklandguy, could you please keep it to yourself? Let's try to create a positive image for OU.

 

[apumic]

Oaklandguy, could you please keep it to yourself? Let's try to create a positive image for OU.

All the students I've met from OU seemed like great people. I roomed with a premed from OU awhile back studying abroad and the guy was both smart and way chill. I have no clue what his GPA was (nor do or would I care), but he was quite sociable and intelligent.

The school has a good rep on the outs.