What do you feed your dog or cat?

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Could anyone recommend a good dental diet? One of my cats has had a lot of dental problems; I'm told it's her breed. My other 3 cats do just fine on Wellness w/ 2 cleanings/year. Since I adopted her from a shelter I don't know for sure, but she looks primarily Himalayan. I get her teeth professionally cleaned twice a year (when I get her groomed, so as to lower the times she has to receive anesthesia). However despite this she has had to have 2 teeth removed. Since she's been on the Hill's T/D for the past year and a half she hasn't had any dental problems whatsoever, but I don't like the idea of feeding her this primarily, if at all, because of the ingredients. I started mixing in a little canned and dry Wellness food about 6 months ago, which consists of about 1/2 her diet, and it hasn't seemed to lessen the benefits of the dental diet.

Any thoughts on alternatives? Is Royal Cannin any better? Or should I stick with what I'm doing (or remove the Wellness)?

I want her to have a good diet but don't want to put her health at risk from the dental issues. She's about 7 years old, if that makes a difference, and is solely indoors.
 
Food really doesn't affect teeth in terms of one canned food vs another canned food/one dry vs another dry. I am not comfortable with the risk of a raw diet (and find that most are not nutritionally balanced) but I imagine it would make for cleaner teeth. Personally I think you have to just continue what you're doing. You could try brushing teeth after meals if she would let you.
 
CanadianGolden said:
Food really doesn't affect teeth in terms of one canned food vs another canned food/one dry vs another dry. I am not comfortable with the risk of a raw diet (and find that most are not nutritionally balanced) but I imagine it would make for cleaner teeth. Personally I think you have to just continue what you're doing. You could try brushing teeth after meals if she would let you.
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Thanks for the info. I don't think I know enough about raw diets to successfully implement one, so right now that wouldn't be an option. I've tried brushing her teeth, and she's not too keen on that. Since whoever had her before me declawed her in front and back, she's quite the biter. I've tried wearing thick gloves, but she just goes for other areas, rather successfully. I tried various water additives but didn't have much success with those. Thanks again!
 
VAgirl said:
The DVM who wrote the stuff that Electrophile linked to seems to say that cats will self regulate their food intake better on wet food. My guy eats waaay too much when left to his own devices with dry food, though, and given how darn hungry he seems to be all the time, I cannot imagine he wouldn't gorge on wet food if given the chance, too. Does anyone have any experience with cats that overeat not overeating with canned food? I'm starting to consider giving it another go since he's on meal times and will be hungry, so maybe making him eat the wet won't be as hard this time. Also, maybe this time he won't throw up every day. That'd be nice.
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VA Girl,

I caught this in passing and likely you've dealt with this already... but recall that wet food contains about 80% moisture. It's harder for a cat to overeat on this because it is not as nutritionally dense as dry food.

If your cat throws up a lot, you might consider more meals with smaller portions. Some cats seem to just scarf their food down and trigger a bout of vomiting... I have an old cat who has always been that way. We minimize it by feeding frequent small portions (tablespoons) and feeding on the porch... 🙂
 
ccrose3 said:
Thanks for the info. I don't think I know enough about raw diets to successfully implement one, so right now that wouldn't be an option. I've tried brushing her teeth, and she's not too keen on that. Since whoever had her before me declawed her in front and back, she's quite the biter. I've tried wearing thick gloves, but she just goes for other areas, rather successfully. I tried various water additives but didn't have much success with those. Thanks again!
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On interesting thing is that vets often used to say that dry food kept cat teeth cleaner.

Lately I have begun to hear the reverse...

My guess is that it probably depends on the food... I suspect the grain-free ones might actually contribute less to plaque and tartar.
 
And to answer the question,

I feed:

CANNED:
Innova EVO
Newman's Own
Wellness
Precise...
(they get a good amount of variety... stomach problems have never seemed to result)

DRY:
Wellness CORE
Orijen

TREATS:
Dried Bonito flakes
Freeze-dried Salmon
Greenies for cats

I tend to be very wary of the big three, as Electrophile is (and others are), but don't really trust myself to provide a good raw diet to my cats, either. If I had easier access to humanely-raised and properly-fed/slaughtered farm animals, perhaps I would, but I personally cannot imagine giving my cats raw food from the factory farm industry. They do occasionally get steamed fish or meats, though.
 
This thread has been an interesting read. It seems there is just as much controversy among vets about food/nutrition as there is among pet owners. I can only share my experience with various vets and pets.
My interest in pet nutrition has gradually developed, mostly due to one of my orange tabbies. I had been feeding my cats IAMs. I thought it was a better quality food than say Friskies. Although at the time I did not think to read ingredient lists. Kudos to Iams marketing department I guess. My cat developed struvites along with UTI. My vet put him on Medical S/O kibble. Here is where I think vets that "only" sell Hills or Medical or other things at their office go wrong. As a client, I assume you are the expert and if you are telling me this is what my pet needs to be healthy I believe you. So I was willing to pay more for Vet food. When he continued having issues with infections and crystals, my vet recommended I only feed the Medical s/o wet food. The wet food was more expensive than dry but vastly less expensive than monthly vet visits (especially emergency visits on Christmas day). The food seemed to make him puke a lot. He was a fairly young cat at the time.

I do recall my vet saying rather off hand that cats should not really eat dry food. They do much better on wet. This piqued my interest - basically if this is the case then why do you sell cat kibble? or at the very least inform people that wet is generally better. So I researched. A lot. I take pet food company data with a grain of salt and likewise the other extreme. Then I read the ingredients on that food the vet had me giving my cat. And I was livid. Mostly because I thought as a vet they were the expert and also because I was paying top dollar for corn and who knows what else thinking it was a premium product because my vet sold it.

So I dumped the vet food and switched all of my cats onto canned food. Generally they like Wellness, but I switch up the brands often. They each get a can a day, with extra water added.
The result of this is: Yes it is more expensive than kibble but I spend way less at the vet (sorry!) I have to break up their feedings into 3x a day as they seem to get a little too hungry at night. They pee a lot so cat litter needs to be changed a bit more.

My slightly chubby orange tabby has never had another struvite/infection. The other 2 cats have never had any kidney/bladder issues. Plus they are all lean. My 13 year old tortie is bright eyed and glossy. My orange tabby who we were convinced was not going live a long life is also 13 and has no apparent health issues.

So now when in the pet section of a grocery store with a fellow shopper or if someone brings up cat food, I do what vets (the ones I have encountered) don't seem to tell anyone. Look at the ingredients. Is the main ingredient corn? Why would a cat eat corn? Cats should eat wet food... etc.

Not that I am anti-corn. I myself partake of it occasionally. Is it a source of protein? Probably. Is it the top choice for a protein source for an obligate carnivore? I doubt it. I have had a vet try to explain to my why corn is great for pet food. Don't pee on my leg and tell me its raining, when they stop the corn subsidies and corn becomes more expensive, the pet food companies will find a new wonder protein ingredient. My anger about the issue arises mostly not so much about corn in pet food, but in vets selling it to unsuspecting clients who think they are doing a good thing for their pets.
Don't underestimate the power you have to influence your clients and don't underestimate the intelligence of your clients.

I'll put my dog food stories in another post. 🙂
 
Continuing my pet food story... three cats weren't enough, so I got three dogs.

Now with the dogs I was a little more food savvy through my experience with the cats.Also dogs seem to be a little more forgiving in the food department. So I started off with kibble. Origen hit all the high points on my ingredients list but seemed a little too rich for their tummies. They appeared to tolerate Acana well. It has more carbs like oatmeal or potato as I recall, but it seemed to agree with them better. But I am a believer in variety so I switched up brands/foods more often than the usual pet owner. But I was never really comfortable that a bunch of dried out pellets could really be the best way to be nourished. So I mixed it up with canned food like Wellness or Natures Instinct. Also Stella and Chewy's dried. But it was a little expensive so when the grocery store started carrying Pet Select in the refrigerated section I thought we would also mix in some of that. i liked that it was "fresher", but it still seemed like fake food.

So I researched raw diets and homemade diets. At this point I was wondering if I could feed them cheaper and more nutritious if I just made it myself. So I started the Great Dogfood Experiment.

I decided I wasn't quite comfortable doing raw feeding exclusively. It seemed a little too extreme for me and I was not sure if I could do it properly, But I have managed to keep myself alive for almost 40 years so how hard could it be to keep three scavengers alive and well?

Apparently it is a miracle I have managed to feed my family without running every recipe through Balance It all these years. Also homemade food recipes, even those written by vets are horribly dangerous. Apparently even vets are not qualified to know what to feed a dog. Poor dogs! Everyone must consult a nutritionist. I have found that opinions such as these defy common sense - I can be entrusted to feed a human baby but don't even attempt to feed the dog without a consult! Many sources that I read seemed to advise it was much better to feed kibble than anything else because it is 100% balanced and anything less is tantamount to neglect. Of course when I checked the sources of these types of statements they were always vets working for Science Diet or whoever.

Obviously I am not going to just plop down a ball of hamburger for my dog every day and think it will be a balanced diet. Neither would a dog's nutritional requirements be exactly the same as my human baby. So I sought "expert" advice. I knew my normal vet was not really to be trusted in the petfood department (see catfood story above) so I looked up a holistic vet in my area and went in for a consult. I thought maybe she could give me a few pointers about what to look out for, maybe explain the calcium/phosphorus requirements for my dogs. Recommend a supplement or something. I'm pretty aware of the usual things dogs shouldn't eat like onions, grapes but I figured if there was something I should be on the look out for she would let me know. Point me toward some reputable information sources etc.

I apparently was under the misapprehension that "holistic" meant treating the entire animal, ideally naturally. Not naturally in the sense of here is an extract of whatever the latest fad is it cures everything, but you know - you have dry skin you should eat more fish rather than handing out a prescription.

She appeared to be appalled that I would even consider attempting to feed my dog myself. She said that she had made homemade food for her dog before that turned out to be horribly imbalanced and it was extremely expensive (she fed bison). I said well, that is why I came to you , you know a vet, who could provide some guidance. She said she could not advise me to not feed 100% balanced meals to my dogs. And I said I dont' want to feed unbalanced meals to my dogs, but even I don't eat 100% balanced at every meal and even if I believed that kibble with all the nutrients extruded then added back in could possibly provide 100% nutrition to my dogs, what happens when I give them a piece of cheese as a treat - wouldn't that "unbalance" this perfectly balanced nutrition?

Then she said if human food came in a kibble that was 100% balanced nutritionally, she would eat it. I said you, the holistic vet, would rather eat kibble than real, unprocessed whole food? So I paid my money and left, none the wiser. Except if someone could tell me how a holistic vet is different than a regular one I'm all ears.

So I am feeding my dogs mainly the DIY recipes from Justfoodfordogs. They do not eat the same thing every day. They do not even eat the same thing in the evening as they do in the morning usually. They very much enjoy dog food making day as they get to sample. I also give them a bit of coconut oil. Mainly because I had some in the cupboard and think it is good for skin etc. And I like to experiment. After feeding my dogs this way for several months I have noticed their fur is softer and shinier (not sure if coconut oil or whole food?). I think sometimes they eat more balanced meals than I do. Although I think some of the recipes a touch carb heavy, but I grew up on meat and potatoes so if they don't seem to have issue with it, then I guess I'll continue on. I have to make sure to label the dogfood as my husband has come close to thinking it was leftovers in the fridge.

I don't think I was feeding my dogs poorly before and maybe I will go back to regular dogfood at some point, but they appear to be thriving despite my efforts. What made me sad was the complete lack of support from the vets. I don't think I am extreme in any of my views and I am willing to listen to other ideas. I respect well researched, objective scientific inquiry.

What I wish that holistic vet would have done was to say, it is difficult to feed 100% balanced food at every meal, and here are the dangers you may face. Here are the dangers of feeding kibble. If you want to proceed on this course, I'm not a nutritionist but I'll provide some basic nutrition guidelines, point you to some reputable sources.

I don't think that is too much to ask.
 
Yup, you can stop.

Clearly you're one of those that is a "my opinion is right despite multiple experts and scientists telling me otherwise."

So many points of your posts I could rip to shreds with science, but science hasn't convinced you yet, so not worth my time.

I do find this part of your post hilarious considering that you've proven you don't believe this:

Sixpets said:
I respect well researched, objective scientific inquiry.
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If you actually want to get educated on nutrition and feed your pet well on a home cooked diet, rather than consulting a "holistic vet" (nebulous term that means nothing really other than to attract a certain type of clientele), you can consult an actual veterinary nutritionist. For like $200-500 they will do that for you using whatever ingredients you want to use. Like literally, any ingredients your heart desires can be incorporated for the most part.

I'm fine with home cooked diets as long as they are balanced. You cannot balance a cat/dog's diet by rotating ingredients like many people do because they all tend to be deficient in the same things. In order to make it work for my cat using only one type of human multivitamin, it took a diet of caviar and lobster as protein sources to make it balance for my cat (this was a thought/educational experiment). Unless someone can name me one or two major nutrients that home cooked diets often are deficient in for both dogs/cats other than taurine for cats (and how to address those deficiencies) I wouldn't trust them to formulate their own diet. I do point my clients to reputable sources for home cooked diets if need be, if they really want to risk a home cooked diet or their pet needs it, I will even balance a meal for them in as foolproof a way as I can. It would still be best done by an actual nutritionist, and honestly $300-500 is a drop in the bucket for these pets, but the diets I can formulate for them is individualized, meets NRC/AAFCO minimums for macro and micro nutrients, uses specific supplements that are actually quality controlled, and sure as hell beats whatever lay person formula they're coming up with themselves or they're finding on the Internet. I don't even charge people to do this. I just do it out of the kindness of my heart because I feel really bad for my patients, and it would eat at my soul for not at least giving a better alternative to the **** the owner is feeding. There is only one dog/cat supplement line for home cooked diets that I trust because the company literally spends 50% of the product revenue on quality control, which like no other company does.
 
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DVMDream said:
Yup, you can stop.

Clearly you're one of those that is a "my opinion is right despite multiple experts and scientists telling me otherwise."

So many points of your posts I could rip to shreds with science, but science hasn't convinced you yet, so not worth my time.

I do find this part of your post hilarious considering that you've proven you don't believe this:
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From this forum alone I know that not all vets believe that pet food corporations have the corner on what is best to feed animals. If there is such disagreement even among professionals, who do you expect a non-vet to believe? How about instead of "ripping things to shreds", show me the science behind corn as a preferred feed for cats for one. I'm not saying cats can't eat it. Logic tells me it might not be the best quality ingredient in cat food.

Why do vets only sell crappy food? Why don't they sell better quality brands of kibble?

I did say "objective" scientific research. This cannot be done by organizations who have a dog in the fight. It would definitely be easier and cheaper to feed my animals No Name Brand kibble that is $5 a bag and "a complete and balanced diet". If you can point me to some research that is not funded by dog food corporations, I'd be less skeptical of their results. Not to say I have not read the usual studies too but I'd certainly be less cynical if the researcher was not in danger of losing her job over her results.

As for having a nutritionist vet every recipe - this is why I went with the recipes from Justfoodfordogs. Because they are designed by the much vaunted nutritionists and come with supplements which are designed specifically for each recipe.
 
Sixpets said:
From this forum alone I know that not all vets believe that pet food corporations have the corner on what is best to feed animals. If there is such disagreement even among professionals, who do you expect a non-vet to believe? How about instead of "ripping things to shreds", show me the science behind corn as a preferred feed for cats for one. I'm not saying cats can't eat it. Logic tells me it might not be the best quality ingredient in cat food.

Why do vets only sell crappy food? Why don't they sell better quality brands of kibble?

I did say "objective" scientific research. This cannot be done by organizations who have a dog in the fight. It would definitely be easier and cheaper to feed my animals No Name Brand kibble that is $5 a bag and "a complete and balanced diet". If you can point me to some research that is not funded by dog food corporations, I'd be less skeptical of their results. Not to say I have not read the usual studies too but I'd certainly be less cynical if the researcher was not in danger of losing her job over her results.

As for having a nutritionist vet every recipe - this is why I went with the recipes from Justfoodfordogs. Because they are designed by the much vaunted nutritionists and come with supplements which are designed specifically for each recipe.
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The bolded is your problem. Until you can realize that just because Hill's does thorough and lengthy research on their own products to be sure the diets do what Hill's claims doesn't make the research invalid, then you will never understand.

Until you can get past that thought, you won't be able to understand the science because you will refuse to even look at it.

Just because research is funded by a specific company, the research that is published doesn't become invalid, it is still very much applicable.

And vets don't "only sell crappy food". What exactly is your definition of "crappy food". From what you have posted it is any food that doesn't follow your OPINION on what a dog or cat should eat. While opinions are all fine and dandy, that doesn't make the food crappy, nor does your opinion on what a food should have make a food that contains those ingredients a good food.

And the vets I worked with, only sold prescription foods. Nothing else. And they didn't only sell from one company either.

I'm not even one to say that someone can't make a pet's diet at home, provided they can consult the appropriate nutritionists to be sure it is a balanced diet. I do have something against someone who has zero education going around and doing this:

Sixpets said:
So now when in the pet section of a grocery store with a fellow shopper or if someone brings up cat food, I do what vets (the ones I have encountered) don't seem to tell anyone. Look at the ingredients. Is the main ingredient corn? Why would a cat eat corn? Cats should eat wet food... etc.
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Why the hell are you giving any advice to anyone about what to feed their pets? Are you a vet? Are you a veterinary nutritionist? Do you even know what macro/micro nutrients a cat needs? What about if that cat has stones? What if that cat has hyperthyroidism? What if that cat has diabetes? What if that cat has CKD? Do you really think you should be advising anyone whose pet you know nothing about on what to feed it?


I also looked at your website above... still reading on their "research" however their "research" was *gasp* funded by themselves, so if you are to apply your same bias, that means you can't believe their research either. If you decide that somehow their research is more valid than any research done by Hill's, Purina, or Royal Canin then you are a hypocrite.
 
Sixpets said:
Why do vets only sell crappy food? Why don't they sell better quality brands of kibble
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You state this like it's an absolute fact and not your opinion based on your unscientific bias against certain ingredients. What is really important about the food is nutrient profile and bioavailability. And ingredient labels are almost always misleading.
 
I can not find anywhere on that website that states that their diets are designed or created by veterinary nutritionists. If you have a link that states otherwise, please link it.

They look like a company riding off the new fangled "all natural, GMO free is better" and they are making bank for it. Dogs eat poop, socks, hair ties, dirt, and anything else they randomly decide to get their mouths on, they don't need organic, all natural, GMO free BS anything.

Also, they sell "olive leaf detox"... dogs need to be detoxed? From what? That is what their liver is for.

Their idea of "immune function increase" from their research was because globins increased and albumin decreased. That happens in many disease processes too. So what is their point? That doesn't indicate an increase in immune function.
 
WildZoo said:
You state this like it's an absolute fact and not your opinion based on your unscientific bias against certain ingredients. What is really important about the food is nutrient profile and bioavailability. And ingredient labels are almost always misleading.
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Ok I should have rephrased that. If you had a choice of selling two foods that meet basic nutritional standards, why would you choose the ones that appear (from examination of the ingredients) to be inferior? Are the nutrients in corn as "bioavailable" as in meat for a carnivore?
 
Sixpets said:
Ok I should have rephrased that. If you had a choice of selling two foods that meet basic nutritional standards, why would you choose the ones that appear (from examination of the ingredients) to be inferior? Are the nutrients in corn as "bioavailable" as in meat for a carnivore?
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Here's what Hill's states about that:

http://www.hillspet.com/cat-care/corn-an-amazing-grain-mature-adult-cat.html

Here's what just food for dogs states about dogs eating carbs:

"Recent studies suggest that dogs have actually evolved to process carbohydrates alongside humans in their domestication process. Dr. Chavez was consulted for an article by the LA Times on a study published in Nature that revealed exactly this: dogs are designed to process carbohydrates better than their wolf ancestors."

And this damn justfoodfordogs website is going to piss me off real fast. They do not have a boarded nutritionist or even a "team of boarded specialists" as they claim. They have one boarded specialist, a veterinary toxicologist. No one there is a boarded nutritionist, no one. Their director of nutrition is just a DVM who has an interest in canine nutrition. He isn't boarded.
 
DVMDream said:
I can not find anywhere on that website that states that their diets are designed or created by veterinary nutritionists. If you have a link that states otherwise, please link it.
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http://company.justfoodfordogs.com/faq/
http://company.justfoodfordogs.com/...09/2016-17-JFFD-Vet-Guide-20150915.pdf?a1371a

Don't think that because I chose their recipes as an option that I believe my dogs need to be fed GMO free and all organic. Nor do they probably need detoxing. I also understand that the jury is still out on whether natural, less processed diets are preferable to kibble. Human nutrition is leaning that way so I am inclined to think it is probably better for animals as well. I have chosen this route mainly because it is slightly cheaper than what I had done before and I know exactly what is going into their bellies. And it isn't melamine. Of course, Costco occasionally has recalls on their meat but I have chosen to take the risk that they would be quicker to recall human food than feed grade food for animals.

You seem slightly antagonistic and condescending. Two qualities I would prefer not to have in my vet. I think we can agree that you did not choose a career as a vet because you hate animals. I did not get pets because I hate animals. So we have something in common. I do not think that all pet food is bad. I am skeptical about the motives of large corporations who process food - both animal and human. And I am skeptical of vets who are schooled by these corporations and are not able to see any alternatives.

As I said in my post, I did not run off willy nilly to make my own dog food, I researched, I went to a vet who I thought might have some schooling in nutrition, I read multiple books published by DVMs, I read opinions on all sides of the spectrum along with research from all sides. I found this forum and thought hey now I can get some real information about what vets really think and found the same diverse opinions as every where else. So I have concluded that there is no conclusion to this debate.
 
Sixpets said:
http://company.justfoodfordogs.com/faq/
http://company.justfoodfordogs.com/...09/2016-17-JFFD-Vet-Guide-20150915.pdf?a1371a

Don't think that because I chose their recipes as an option that I believe my dogs need to be fed GMO free and all organic. Nor do they probably need detoxing. I also understand that the jury is still out on whether natural, less processed diets are preferable to kibble. Human nutrition is leaning that way so I am inclined to think it is probably better for animals as well. I have chosen this route mainly because it is slightly cheaper than what I had done before and I know exactly what is going into their bellies. And it isn't melamine. Of course, Costco occasionally has recalls on their meat but I have chosen to take the risk that they would be quicker to recall human food than feed grade food for animals.

You seem slightly antagonistic and condescending. Two qualities I would prefer not to have in my vet. I think we can agree that you did not choose a career as a vet because you hate animals. I did not get pets because I hate animals. So we have something in common. I do not think that all pet food is bad. I am skeptical about the motives of large corporations who process food - both animal and human. And I am skeptical of vets who are schooled by these corporations and are not able to see any alternatives.

As I said in my post, I did not run off willy nilly to make my own dog food, I researched, I went to a vet who I thought might have some schooling in nutrition, I read multiple books published by DVMs, I read opinions on all sides of the spectrum along with research from all sides. I found this forum and thought hey now I can get some real information about what vets really think and found the same diverse opinions as every where else. So I have concluded that there is no conclusion to this debate.
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There is no boarded veterinary nutritionist anywhere on that website or in what you linked.

This thread is also many many years old. A lot has changed in those years.

I also wasn't instructed on animal nutrition by any of the pet food companies. You assume this to be true, but it isn't, at least for me.

I'm not being condescending, I'm pointing out the flaws in your arguments.

If you actually came to see me as a dedicated pet owner to doing a home based diet for your dog. And showed a distinct interest in doing that, and that you have the means to do it well, I'd give you the resources and offer referral to a boarded nutritionist.

I'll state again, I have nothing against people who want to spend the money and have the time to cook a balanced diet for their dog. I'll work with them. I do have issues in these people suggesting this diet to people in pet stores, you don't have this knowledge and can seriously harm an animal this way.

I'd rather see a pet on a well balanced commercial dog food than to see a pet on an unbalanced home based food. Reason being that the home based diet takes time, money and effort. Many people aren't as invested as they need to be for it to work.
 
Sixpets said:
Ok I should have rephrased that. If you had a choice of selling two foods that meet basic nutritional standards, why would you choose the ones that appear (from examination of the ingredients) to be inferior? Are the nutrients in corn as "bioavailable" as in meat for a carnivore?
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The veterinary diets that most vets sell are chosen because there is extensive research put into them that doesn't go into most other brands. There's a reason you don't see big marketing campaigns for Hill's and RC. A lot of their profit goes to food trials and research.
 
Sixpets said:
As I said in my post, I did not run off willy nilly to make my own dog food, I researched, I went to a vet who I thought might have some schooling in nutrition, I read multiple books published by DVMs, I read opinions on all sides of the spectrum along with research from all sides.
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Researching is good, knowing your sources are credible is better.
Try here: http://www.acvn.org/
Boarded veterinary nutritionists who have gone through extensive schooling and training and would be best qualified to get you the answers you're looking for.
If you want to talk to a boarded veterinary nutritionist, try http://www.acvn.org/directory/
 
Sixpets said:
http://company.justfoodfordogs.com/faq/
http://company.justfoodfordogs.com/...09/2016-17-JFFD-Vet-Guide-20150915.pdf?a1371a

Don't think that because I chose their recipes as an option that I believe my dogs need to be fed GMO free and all organic. Nor do they probably need detoxing. I also understand that the jury is still out on whether natural, less processed diets are preferable to kibble. Human nutrition is leaning that way so I am inclined to think it is probably better for animals as well. I have chosen this route mainly because it is slightly cheaper than what I had done before and I know exactly what is going into their bellies. And it isn't melamine. Of course, Costco occasionally has recalls on their meat but I have chosen to take the risk that they would be quicker to recall human food than feed grade food for animals.

You seem slightly antagonistic and condescending. Two qualities I would prefer not to have in my vet. I think we can agree that you did not choose a career as a vet because you hate animals. I did not get pets because I hate animals. So we have something in common. I do not think that all pet food is bad. I am skeptical about the motives of large corporations who process food - both animal and human. And I am skeptical of vets who are schooled by these corporations and are not able to see any alternatives.

As I said in my post, I did not run off willy nilly to make my own dog food, I researched, I went to a vet who I thought might have some schooling in nutrition, I read multiple books published by DVMs, I read opinions on all sides of the spectrum along with research from all sides. I found this forum and thought hey now I can get some real information about what vets really think and found the same diverse opinions as every where else. So I have concluded that there is no conclusion to this debate.
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Please get better sources.

There's this idea that only fresh ingredients are good for pets. Companies that do research give dogs their food for the life of that dog (and they generally have decent lives). Many of the smaller companies cannot afford to do this kind of research. Cats and dogs can process nutrients from carbohydrates and vegetables. There is sort of a split on dry versus wet food in cats. Wet food is great because most cats probably don't drink enough water. But it also predisposes them to dental disease.

If you came to SDN just to debate vet nutrition, you came to the wrong forum. This is intended to be a forum for pre-professional and professional students.
 
Also - as far as not trusting the dog food companies' research and studies, I would rethink that. Purina did a lifetime study on simple diet restriction (ie, feeding less food) and found that dogs lived longer and healthier lives with a restricted calorie diet as opposed to letting them eat as much as they wanted. And they published it. If it were all about Purina making more money, why would they tell people to feed their pets less? Surely they would make more money if people just let their pets eat as much as they wanted, and have to go out and buy more food more often.
 
I also want to add that cooking food is processing it. We know for a fact that consuming raw meats is not good for many pets (risks of e. coli, salmonella, etc), even though many non-vets advocate for it.
 
dyachei said:
I also want to add that cooking food is processing it. We know for a fact that consuming raw meats is not good for many pets (risks of e. coli, salmonella, etc), even though many non-vets advocate for it.
Click to expand...
This one always gets me. If you wouldn't eat raw meat, why feed it to your pets? Theoretically the health benefits would be the same for you as for them, and the risks are similar as well.
 
kcoughli said:
This one always gets me. If you wouldn't eat raw meat, why feed it to your pets? Theoretically the health benefits would be the same for you as for them, and the risks are similar as well.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm not sure what the thought process is. I do know parasitism and bacterial diseases are prevalent enough to stop me from ever considering it.
 
WhtsThFrequency said:
Kale is an abomination that needs to be purged from the earth. Show me someone who likes eating kale and I will show you a damnable liar.
Click to expand...

I could never eat that s*** by itself... but I make a kale/brussel sprout salad. It sounds horrible (I hate brussel sprouts) but it's SO GOOD! Even all the meat eaters in my lab loved it! And the dressing has lemon juice so it lasts forever.




On a more related note, I feed my dogs purina pro plan and my cat gets purina one. It seems to work great.
Not a fan of blue buffalo just because of all the issues we see with GI problems that seem to be related to diet. My doctor even had to petition for a recall after seeing 2 cats with some rare degenerative bone disease and talking with other vets who were seeing the same thing.. common denominator --> blue buffalo! But I don't know too much about it besides they put a lot of $$$ in advertising and not too much in research, and it's super high in protein. The vets I work for always highly discourage people from feeding it but it works for some!
 
I am of the opinion that every animal is an individual and, therefore, different animals will do better on different foods. My own dog gets what most here would apparently consider a lower-quality food, namely Mighty Dog (a canned food from Purina) with Greenies for treats. She is over 10 years old, is doing great, has never had a serious medical issue in her entire life, has never had any skin issues (no hair loss, itching, or skin infections), and I can count the number of days she has either vomited or had diarrhea on one hand (and I would still have fingers leftover). She defecates once daily like clockwork and her feces have an ideal consistency. I did consider "upgrading" her food once, but gave up that notion when I thought about the fact that her favorite hobby is sniffing out and then scarfing up wild rabbit poop in my backyard...
 
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