What do you make of this guy?

[MrBlonde]

I would often see his advertisements in those magazines they have on the airplanes when I would go to my interviews. He's a doctor at a company called "Cenegneics" whereby as part of a program he takes and recommends for his patients HGH and testosterone in order to attain this physique. WTF?! Doesn't this constitute the height of the "quest for beauty" at any cost (including health). It also begs the question what role should a doctor have in all of this. As a future physician, I think the fact this doctor recommends such a regimen is reprehensible and makes him on the same level of a snake-oil saleman as far as scumbagginess is concerned. Thoughts?

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[airplanes]

He looks like a ripped Gene Hackman.

 

[Dissected]

I remember this from my flights too!! Its a shame, I think, but what can you do? He has excellent marketing and a system that people can get on to fell better about themselves and how they look. Unfortunately it will catch up with them eventually after their bodies are worn out. He looks ridiculous by the way


BTW the smiley progression in your signature made me chuckle

 

[ChubbyChaser]

That looks photoshopped.......ridiculous haha.

 

[Live4Life]

This definitely can't be good for you. Look at how distended how belly is.

 

[Character]

the guy looks amazing. and here is nothing wrong with his belly. its distended from a) eating alot which is required to build muscle mass when you train, and b) the huge abdominal muscles. theres nothing wrong with his body. people, stop hatin!

 

[135892]

I'd do him

 

[Live4Life]

the guy looks amazing. and here is nothing wrong with his belly. its distended from a) eating alot which is required to build muscle mass when you train, and b) the huge abdominal muscles. theres nothing wrong with his body. people, stop hatin!

I'm not hating, at 70 years old I think anyone is free to do what they want to their body. They have lived a long enough life at that point.

 

[Soccerdoc11]

I would probably classify him as a TOOL

 

[LossForWords]

Meh. People are free to do whatever they want. I know I won't be sending anyone any money to look like that when I'm 65. That's the beauty of getting old! There are no expectations so you can just get fat.

 

[GoldShadow]

But wouldn't it be awesome to look like that at 70? It's like something out of a video game or an anime or a comic book or a sci-fi story.

 

[KippocalypsE]

That guy simply has the genetics for that body (despite taking hormones).

 

[deleted74029]

http://www.cenegenics.com/video/dr_life_intro.html

 

[Lukkie]

steroids really aren't evil

anyone here see the documentary "bigger faster stronger"?

 

[p30doc]

steroids really aren't evil

anyone here see the documentary "bigger faster stronger"?

yea that was definitely an interesting movie which made some very good points

 

[Poiu86]

At 70 I think I would be concentrating more on cardiovascular fitness than on trying to look like a body builder. No thanks.


I'm tempted to call the number and see if I actually talk to a doctor....

 

[Dissected]

At 70 I think I would be concentrating more on cardiovascular fitness than on trying to look like a body builder. No thanks.


I'm tempted to call the number and see if I actually talk to a doctor....

Do it!!!

tell us who answers too, this could be good...

 

[tncekm]

As a future physician, I think the fact this doctor recommends such a regimen is reprehensible and makes him on the same level of a snake-oil saleman as far as scumbagginess is concerned. Thoughts?

This is a touchy subject for some very strange reason, but I'll go for it anyway. There is actually reasonable evidence (check PubMed) which suggests replacement levels of hGH and testosterone won't negatively affect health or psychology. What does this mean? Well, with reasonable exogenous testosterone treatment your lipid profile, liver profile, etc will all be just fine. The only detriment would be exogenous testosterone tends to damage the hypothalamus pituitary testicular axis and sperm production drops pretty drastically (thus testicle shrinkage). And, there are research studies on PudMed where they show psychologically normal men taking as much as 600mg/wk of testosterone (probably yielding 6-8x physiological levels for a 20yr old male) without any evidence of so-called "roid rage".

However, just like anything, taking too much will create issues. I.e. hGH tends to grow bones, organs, etc. Testosterone at high levels will create a horrible lipid profile, etc. So, professional bodybuilders are totally unhealthy but Joe-Bloe Average on hormone replacement therapy is likely to have his overall health and well-being improved with a reasonable course of treatment.

(Note: there are many different kinds of illegal steroids on the black-market and this example of "testosterone" doesn't necessarily apply to any of them.)

The anti-steroid campaign, to the best of my knowledge, is largely a result of people whining about athletics (i.e. the Olympic games in particular).

 

[tncekm]

At 70 I think I would be concentrating more on cardiovascular fitness than on trying to look like a body builder. No thanks.


I'm tempted to call the number and see if I actually talk to a doctor....

Cardiovascular fitness is actually directly related to muscular fitness, especially in the elderly. Blood pressure in veins is exceedingly low and reasonable levels of muscular contraction are required for normal circulation. In addition, just imagine the bone density the guy must have? I'm confident he's in reasonable health... he is 70yrs old after all.

If he gets his bloodwork done and everything looks fine, then so be it IMHO. Hell, even if everything didn't look fine. People are free to kill themselves with cigarettes.

 

[Dissected]

Cardiovascular fitness is actually directly related to muscular fitness, especially in the elderly. Blood pressure in veins is exceedingly low and reasonable levels of muscular contraction are required for normal circulation. In addition, just imagine the bone density the guy must have? I'm confident he's in reasonable health... he is 70yrs old after all.

If he gets his bloodwork done and everything looks fine, then so be it IMHO. Hell, even if everything didn't look fine. People are free to kill themselves with cigarettes.

yes but he's marketing this as a physician...a tad different

 

[Climberak]

Hmmm.... growth hormones and an immunosupressive steroid...

Sounds like a tumor waiting to happen.

 

[biophysicianai]

That guy simply has the genetics for that body (despite taking hormones).

The only detriment would be exogenous testosterone tends to damage the hypothalamus pituitary testicular axis and sperm production drops pretty drastically (thus testicle shrinkage)

 

[EpiPEN]

Hm... I would need to see the state of his testicles before I make judgment

 

[Narmerguy]

Hm... I would need to see the state of his testicles before I make judgment

I'd rather not be presented with that thorough of a case for this drug...

 

[cyclin M]

Here's what I think of him:

 

[EpiPEN]

I'd rather not be presented with that thurough of a case for this drug...

at the risk of getting warned by admins... I will show the pictures of some walnuts...

*EDIT*

Actually, maybe Prunes would be more similar

and to keep this post on topic...

doctors shouldn't use steroids unless it's for medicinal purposes

 

[TheGreatHunt]

Hmmm.... growth hormones and an immunosupressive steroid...

Sounds like a tumor waiting to happen.

No more than tumors are already "Waiting to happen" in healthy 25 year old males, according to your logic...

Also, I wonder if this is beneficial? This would definitely help take away all of that unnecessary fat that slovenly Americans carry around with them.

Additionally, the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis really doesn't have to suffer from this, this is something that, unfortunately, bodybuilders seem to be more aware of than most doctors nowadays. There are cancer drugs known as "Selective Estrogenic Receptor Modulators" or SERMs for short, which bind competitively to estrogen receptors (Clomiphene Citrate and Tamoxifen Citrate). These negate some of the effects that aromatase seems to have, which is to aromatize testosterone to estrogen.

There are other drugs, known as "Aromatase Inhibitors" which serve to reversibly bind, or bind in a suicide fashion to aromatase, which knocks it out, preventing(depending on the drug), the ability to change testosterone(or androstenedione) to estrogens.

Bodybuilders also use HcG, known as Human Chorionic Gonadotropin, which is an analogue of LH, usually produced in women during pregnancy. LH binds to LH receptors, stimulating endogenous testosterone production. There are good papers out there that demonstrate the ability to rescue endogenous testosterone levels in males after long periods of steroid abuse, and we're not talking close to physiological levels, we're talking about 2000mg Sustanon(A mix of testosterone+esters which metabolize differently) along with Nandrolone PhenylPropionate etc...

Anyway, the take home message is that most effects of steroids seem to be reversible.

And because I know you'll all want some type of article evidence, here are a couple:
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0015-0282(08)01495-7

case studies:

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all?content=10.1080/01485010500315891

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...nel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Anyway, don't go out and do roids or anything... but I often think that people perpetuate what they heard once upon a time in High School health class... Think about where you get your information from. JMHO

 

[TheGreatHunt]

By the way, when I say "Most of the effects of steroids seem to be reversible". I'm talking about the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis damage, not heart damage that may result from multiple times the amount found in a normal body(Like a said 2000mg sustanon/wk etc... Very stupid).

Also, roid rage is a ridiculous concept IMHO. If you act like a ***** when you're not on steroids, then that will only be exemplified when taking steroids, not a sudden change from Dr. Jekyll to Mr. Hyde...

I want to make sure people understand that I'm saying there are risks to extreme supraphysiological levels of androgens, but I would say there is scant evidence(none?) for mal effects on the high end of physiological levels...

 

[dragonfly99]

As an internist, I think that growth hormones and sex hormones should not be given out except by one's personal physician, and/or a physician who specializes in male or female health and deals with issues of sexual dysfunction and/or aging in a comprehensive, learned manner. There are situations where testosterone replacement could be medically warranted (not to supraphysiologic levels). These people just want to make money and the truth is we don't know that treating otherwise healthy aging folks with growth hormones and sex hormones isn't harmful. With growth hormone in particular, there certainly could be an increased risk of some cancers. First, do no harm.

And yes, I do think it is unethical for an MD or DO to push growth hormones and/or sex hormones to a healthy population/general consumers. IMHO, the fact that we (physicians) don't do things like this is what makes us different than the others (snake oil salesmen, some of the so-called naturopathic doctors with little formal education, etc.).

 

[dragonfly99]

I also think this picture looks photoshopped.

 

[Climberak]

No more than tumors are already "Waiting to happen" in healthy 25 year old males, according to your logic...

While I'm not positive on the amount of growth hormone and testosterone that he is taking, it has be substantially more than what you would find in your average 25 year old male to get that kind of body. You're absolutely right in your assertion that some tumors will happen no matter what, but it is naive to think that by adding these specific chemicals in abnormal amounts there will be no change in oncogenesis.

 

[Chemist0157]

That picture really looks photoshopped.

He must have gotten that body picture off my Facebook page .

 

[Handyman73]

I won't say anything bad about him - it looks like he could kick most of our butts!

 

[Dissected]

While I'm not positive on the amount of growth hormone and testosterone that he is taking, it has be substantially more than what you would find in your average 25 year old male to get that kind of body. You're absolutely right in your assertion that some tumors will happen no matter what, but it is naive to think that by adding these specific chemicals in abnormal amounts there will be no change in oncogenesis.

significantly?? I dunno, ex: french fries have acrylamide, and people have freaked out about it and sued the major food manufacturers. but it is in such small amounts that it is very hard to find evidence that it will lead to tumorigenesis 1. It is obviously more than than the body is 'normally' going to be consuming, but it doesn't seem to significantly increase the concern for cancer 2. Hell, peanut butter is a mutagen according to the ames test.

As far as GH is concerned, there are known chemical pathways downstream (IGF-1) that are proto-oncogenes, but the link to GH treatment and cancer is weak..plus in a study that found a link, 3, the increase in cancer occurred over an entire lifetime of treatment. Not the case here. Testosterone is known to suppress oncogenesis in prostate cancer, and be a risk in breast cancer (not normally an issue for males with normal BMI).

I don't think this treatment is healthy, but cancer causing? extremely hard to prove in 70 year old patients who are already at extremely high risk for cancer simply because of their age!!