What do you think about Chiropractors?

[konstantin123]

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😎 think its a good field or just a bunch of quckbusters?>

 

[Dr.Inviz]

i think theyre real cool cats.

 

[AustinFinklea]

Definately a noble profession. The only reason anybody would have to call a chiropractor a scam artist is if they, themselves, had a bad experience.

 

[konstantin123]

Do's have to do 500 hours of intern adjustments.(cracking backs) like chiropractors.

 

[Taus]

for purely musculoskeletal issues (mainly back pain)...they can be effective...its only the ones who try to go beyond that and "treat" other medical conditions and/or the ones who don't first rule out other conditions that can present at "back pain"..thats when it can get into the realm of quackery

 

[konstantin123]

yes the famous one is sir mem you have a sublaxitive spinal problem. you have to come in 4 days a week.😱

 

[PlasticMan]

What were told at school was that the father of chiropractoric medicine was this guy named Palmer. He was a student of A.T. Still who decided HVLA was all that was needed for healing; hence decided to stop studying under steal and started chiropractic medicine. The osteopaths claim that Chiropractics was started using a limited part of osteopathic medicine; another words, chiropractics was started from osteopathy.

 

[Taus]

Do's have to do 500 hours of intern adjustments.(cracking backs) like chiropractors.

manual medicine (which is way more then "cracking backs") + the thousands and thousands of hours it takes for standard medical education...

and no...DO's don't teach the "subluxation" theory and don't have pt's come in for a rediculous amt of appointments like that....

 

[konstantin123]

plus the thousands and thousands of standard medical education....

yup

 

[ingridska]

Chiropractors have their place in the field of care. But they are not the equivalent or even a healthy alternative to a D.O. They are completely different approaches, and chiropractors are very limited in the knowledge and care they can give when compared to a physician.

 

[scpod]

What were told at school was that the father of chiropractoric medicine was this guy named Palmer. He was a student of A.T. Still who decided HVLA was all that was needed for healing; hence decided to stop studying under steal and started chiropractic medicine. The osteopaths claim that Chiropractics was started using a limited part of osteopathic medicine; another words, chiropractics was started from osteopathy.

The story, as we were told it, was that Palmer was actually a patient of Still's. He was taught by a guy who never actually graduated from Still's medical school. Apparently, there is some rather recent documentation to verify this.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Here's what I think about chiropractors:

 

[emeddo]

The director of the museum at Still's namesake read to us from the actual journals that show where Palmer and a drop out/kicked out student of the university got together. He also read Still's description of the man as a student who eventually associated with Palmer and it wasn't one I would ever want on my dean's letter. The director told us that the Chiropractors try to tell a different story, but all of the records point otherwise and we have access to the largest collection of them here in Kirksville.

 

[DNA Helicase]

I don't think about chiropractors.

 

[Sailing Girl]

I think about chiropractors every Sunday when I listen to Supertalk F.M. 99 Empowering your health with Dr. Asa Andrew. It's a radio show based in Nashville where people call in with their "medical" problems. I listen to it via internet streaming. I learn a lot about health and wellness from this radio program. Last week's show had a G.I. doctor calling in for holistic advice for his wife's IBS. I was rather impressed. I've also followed some of his advice and my health has improved tremendously.

 

[Ferrismonk]

Chiropractors are great at doing what they are trained to do: Realigning the musculoskeletal system to promote the body's natural healing processes. The problem lies in the fact that they don't have any actual medical training. I know that many chiropractors try to expand thier business by suggesting various herbs and supplements (i.e. the only drugs they are allowed to prescribe), and this is where patients can sometimes run into trouble. It just doesn't make sense to put a pharmacologically active substance into your body without a proper medical exam.

I know many people that have had success with chiropractic services (hence why insurance companies have started to pay for these services), but you just have to be careful when accepting actual medical advice from them. I thought about becoming a chiropractor myself actually, but in the end I choose to be an osteopathic physician because the medical training I will receive will allow me to serve my community in a greater capacity.

Hope this helps. 🙂

 

[Futuredoctr]

When I shadowed my osteopathic physician, I asked him about this because he often refers people to the chiropractor next to his office. He told me that to do quality omm, you need a substantial amount of time. He was already spending a good 30-45 min per patient, and just could not afford to do omm, so he would send them to the chiropractor next door, with specific instructions of what was wrong and needed worked on.

 

[8744]

Chiropractors are great at doing what they are trained to do: Realigning the musculoskeletal system to promote the body's natural healing processes.

You should run, not walk, as fast as you can away from this attitude. I like DOs. I am in a combined MD/DO program. But there is absolutely no basis for your assertion about that realigning the musculoskeletal system promotes the body's natural healing process and if you profess such a faith you will be justifiably ridiculed as a quack.

Look, medicine has believed a lot of things that now seem ludicrous. At one time bleeding (cupping) was the cure for everything. But we learn and we move on. Don't persist in believeing in the 21st century version of cupping.

 

[Hardbody]

😎 think its a good field or just a bunch of quckbusters?>

My father swears by them.

 

[beanpole3]

You should run, not walk, as fast as you can away from this attitude. I like DOs. I am in a combined MD/DO program. But there is absolutely no basis for your assertion about that realigning the musculoskeletal system promotes the body's natural healing process and if you profess such a faith you will be justifiably ridiculed as a quack.

Look, medicine has believed a lot of things that now seem ludicrous. At one time bleeding (cupping) was the cure for everything. But we learn and we move on. Don't persist in believeing in the 21st century version of cupping.

Where is there a combined MD/DO Program?

 

[Taus]

Where is there a combined MD/DO Program?

he's talking about residency...not med school

 

[91z4me]

OK, I am new here but there is a LOT of people talking about what they don't know about so I think I will try to help with this a little bit.

The problem lies in the fact that they don't have any actual medical training.

Your right Chiropractors don't get medical training but they do get quite a bit of education in Microbiology and Biochemistry and have extensive knowledge of the human body through Gross Anatomy just like most other doctors in healthcare. I don't think just because someone treats something differently or thinks of it differently that they should automatically be discounted because they practice differently than others.

I know that many chiropractors try to expand thier business by suggesting various herbs and supplements (i.e. the only drugs they are allowed to prescribe), and this is where patients can sometimes run into trouble. It just doesn't make sense to put a pharmacologically active substance into your body without a proper medical exam.

I actually totally agree with this because many Chiropractors who don't practice like that are given a black eye by the ones that do.

You should run, not walk, as fast as you can away from this attitude.

So your saying that you don't think a problem in the spinal chord will have outreaching effects on the vicera?

As for the discussions of D.D. Palmer and Andrew Still I think that their personal correspondence speaks for itself. The wrote to each other quite often and debated quite a bit about the Rule of the Artery vs the Rule of the Nerve. Is that something that Dr. Still would have done if he held a low opinion of Dr. Palmer? Or is it not more likely that they were on level footing as leaders in growing/persecuted proffesions?

 

[FoughtFyr]

OK, I am new here but there is a LOT of people talking about what they don't know about so I think I will try to help with this a little bit.

I won't even point out the irony.

Your right Chiropractors don't get medical training but they do get quite a bit of education in Microbiology and Biochemistry and have extensive knowledge of the human body through Gross Anatomy just like most other doctors in healthcare.

Do not confuse sitting in a class with the same title as a medical school course with learning the same material.

I don't think just because someone treats something differently or thinks of it differently that they should automatically be discounted because they practice differently than others.

True. But in order to be valid that different methodology has to be scientifically proven. Chiropractic isn't.

I actually totally agree with this because many Chiropractors who don't practice like that are given a black eye by the ones that do.

Hmm, I thought (from you post on another thread) that the "standards of practice" for chiropractic are so tight as to prevent such problems.

So your saying that you don't think a problem in the spinal chord will have outreaching effects on the vicera?

No, if there is a real problem with the spinal cord (i.e., fractures with impingement) in can have outreaching effects on the viscera. The fictional creation of DD Palmer, "the subluxation", doesn't have outreaching effects on the viscera.

As for the discussions of D.D. Palmer and Andrew Still I think that their personal correspondence speaks for itself. The wrote to each other quite often and debated quite a bit about the Rule of the Artery vs the Rule of the Nerve. Is that something that Dr. Still would have done if he held a low opinion of Dr. Palmer? Or is it not more likely that they were on level footing as leaders in growing/persecuted proffesions?

Oh my. Enough said.

- H

 

[8744]

...So your saying that you don't think a problem in the spinal chord will have outreaching effects on the vicera?

As for the discussions of D.D. Palmer and Andrew Still I think that their personal correspondence speaks for itself. The wrote to each other quite often and debated quite a bit about the Rule of the Artery vs the Rule of the Nerve. Is that something that Dr. Still would have done if he held a low opinion of Dr. Palmer? Or is it not more likely that they were on level footing as leaders in growing/persecuted proffesions?

Whoa. I didn't say that. I just mean that "alignment" of otherwise normal spines is useless and has no proven benefit. What a chiropracter calls "abnormal" is usually a normal and harmless anatomical variant. Nobody's spine is absolutely straight (um, curved). Not even close.

As for what the ancients did or wrote to each other, I'm sure I could dredge up something written by Aristotle which, although completely wrong according to what we know today, was still a respected part of medical knowledge 500 years ago. Nobody is saying that Andrew Still was an idiot, a *****, or a quack, just that a lot of what he postulated and believed has turned out ot be wrong. No harm, no foul. But to persist in your beliefs in the face of real evidence is nothing short of cult-like behavior.

The difference between you and me is that if a treatment modality is found to be a load of crap I just shrug my shoulders and say, "Oh well, I guess I won't be doing that anymore." You seem to have a lot emotionally invested in manipulation.

 

[Ferrismonk]

You should run, not walk, as fast as you can away from this attitude. I like DOs. I am in a combined MD/DO program. But there is absolutely no basis for your assertion about that realigning the musculoskeletal system promotes the body's natural healing process and if you profess such a faith you will be justifiably ridiculed as a quack.

Now I'm not in medical school yet, so forgive me if I seem ignorant, but may I ask why you say you "like DOs" but disagree so strongly with one of thier basic tenants? As for OMT, while it is true that it is not the cure all that Dr. Still may have originally thought, you can't argue with it's effectivness. Here's a few examples that I've dug up:

NEJM Volume 341:1426-1431
Osteopathic manual care and standard medical care have similar clinical results in patients with subacute low back pain. However, the use of medication is greater with standard care.

Spine. 21(15):1746-1759, August 1, 1996.
Cervical spine manipulation and mobilization probably provide at least short-term benefits for some patients with neck pain and headaches.

Neurosurgery. 33(1):73-79, July 1993.
...the data suggest that SMT demonstrates consistent effectiveness as an alternate treatment for adults with acute low back pain

Cephalalgia. Volume 22 Issue 8 Page 617 - October 2002
In two studies, patients receiving spinal manipulation showed comparable improvements in migraine and tension headaches compared to drug treatment

European Spine Journal. Volume 9, Number 3 / June, 2000
Because osteopathic manipulation produced a 12-month outcome that was equivalent to chemonucleolysis, it can be considered as an option for the treatment of symptomatic lumbar disc herniation, at least in the absence of clear indications for surgery.

JAOA. Vol 100 No 12 December 2000 Page 776-782
The treatment group had a significantly shorter duration of intravenous antibiotic treatment and a shorter hospital stay.

I'm not saying that these articles are by any means comprehensive, but there IS evidence that OMT can reduce hospital stays, reduce the amount of drugs needed to control pain, and generally make people feel better. I've seen OMT work myself when my wife was having terrible shoulder pain after using crutches post knee surgery. The MDs my wife went to kept ratcheting up her narcotics to little effect except to make her loopy. We finally mentioned this to our family DO who "realigned her musculoskeletal system". Her pain was immediately relieved. I am aware that OMT can't cure everything, but when I'm a physician I cannot refuse a non-invasive therapy that heals people, regardless of whether or not it might seem "quacky".

Look, medicine has believed a lot of things that now seem ludicrous. At one time bleeding (cupping) was the cure for everything. But we learn and we move on. Don't persist in believeing in the 21st century version of cupping.

Just as a side note, cupping isn't bleeding. Cupping required a small vacuum to be created under a bell jar placed on the skin. Bleeding was simply that, they opened up a vein and let some blood out. 🙄

 

[FoughtFyr]

Now I'm not in medical school yet, so forgive me if I seem ignorant, but may I ask why you say you "like DOs" but disagree so strongly with one of thier basic tenants? As for OMT, while it is true that it is not the cure all that Dr. Still may have originally thought, you can't argue with it's effectivness. Here's a few examples that I've dug up:

First, when you get to medical school you will learn it is generally more accepted to analyze each paper you offer as proof just a bit. But, I do appreciate your post.

The problems I have with chiropractic are far less about the SMT in general and far more to do with their training, standards, and "care". As an emergency physician I have seen many serious chiropractic misadventures that have resulted in severe morbidity and even mortality. The problem is that these patients had no hope of being cured by the chiropractor. A DO has a variety of tools at their disposal. Yes including SMT, but also including drugs and surgery. It is a risk versus benefit thing. BTW - I have also never had SMT other than by another resident as tx for a muscle knot in my back. Felt good, but the problem was not one I would have sought care for normally.

- H

 

[Packamylase]

he's talking about residency...not med school

He's referring to Michigan State.

 

[8744]

He's referring to Michigan State.

MSU has both an Osteopathic medical school (COM) and an Allopathic medical school (CHM). They have joint first year classes (for now, that is, because the College of Human Medicine is moving to Grand Rapids in 2010) but I think everything else is seperate.

My Emergency Medicine program is accredited by both the respective Allopathic and Osteopathic boards and we have an about even mix of DOs and MDs. The DOs have to do an extra intern year or a "tracking" year for reasons which have never been adequately explained to me.

 

[8744]

....Now I'm not in medical school yet, so forgive me if I seem ignorant, but may I ask why you say you "like DOs" but disagree so strongly with one of thier basic tenants?

I like Moslems and Hindus but I disagree very strongly with their basic tenants. Hey, not every disagreement needs a war fought over it.

But if you conducted a poll, you would find that many DOs are not "believers" either. At my program there is no functional difference between DO and MDs except that the DO interns, as they have a "tracking year" behind them, are a lot more useful than raw MD interns. Not too much OMM going on at any of the fine DO residency programs around here. Of course, our program tends to select MD residents with prior experience so it's a moot (or "mute" to use the recieved SDN spelling which is rediculous) point.

Besides, we're talking about chiropractors here, not DOs. A chiropractor is to a DO what a ferret is to a merry-go-round.