What do you think of the University of Cincinnati's 2011 match list?

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clarkalim

Figuring things out...
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http://comdo-wcnlb.uc.edu/PDFDocuments/StudentAffairs/MatchDay/matchday2011location.pdf

It seems like most of the students stayed in Ohio, at least half. Is this a bad sign? I wanted to do MD/MS Nutrition here, because it's like one of the two schools that actually have the program. But, I don't want to jeopardize my chances of getting into a good fellowship. But, maybe I'm just not understanding how all of it works. Does the match list have anything to do with how good the students did/how good the medical school is?

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http://comdo-wcnlb.uc.edu/PDFDocuments/StudentAffairs/MatchDay/matchday2011location.pdf

It seems like most of the students stayed in Ohio, at least half. Is this a bad sign? I wanted to do MD/MS Nutrition here, because it's like one of the two schools that actually have the program. But, I don't want to jeopardize my chances of getting into a good fellowship. But, maybe I'm just not understanding how all of it works. Does the match list have anything to do with how good the students did/how good the medical school is?

It's pretty common for a state school to match a majority of students in-state. People want to do residency in-state for the same reason they wanted to go to med school in-state.

The quality of the match list is more a reflection of the quality of the students than it is an indicator of the quality of the medical school.
 
Match lists are good for nothing.
 
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It's pretty common for a state school to match a majority of students in-state. People want to do residency in-state for the same reason they wanted to go to med school in-state.

The quality of the match list is more a reflection of the quality of the students than it is an indicator of the quality of the medical school.

Okay. Well, I'm a California resident going to school in Washington, DC, so I'm definitely not an in-state resident...but, if I do well on the USMLE step 1 and 2 and all that stuff, I should be okay to get into a good residency and fellowship based on what I'VE done and how I've done on tests, not on the medical school I graduated from? Or does the school name play a part too?
 
This is good stuff from my state school...

"With medical school graduates choosing to leave the state of Georgia for residency training, the majority of graduates preferred to train at a well-known out-of-state program. Fifty-four percent of respondents had not ranked any Georgia GME program in their top three choices. This year only 21.% matched into programs in Georgia."
 
Okay. Well, I'm a California resident going to school in Washington, DC, so I'm definitely not an in-state resident...but, if I do well on the USMLE step 1 and 2 and all that stuff, I should be okay to get into a good residency and fellowship based on what I'VE done and how I've done on tests, not on the medical school I graduated from? Or does the school name play a part too?

Definitely. Your med school has no more bearing on where you go for residency than does your undergrad on where you go for medical school. That is to say, the name of your school may carry some weight but it really comes down to your personal aptitude. Top 10 medical schools have stellar match lists because they have stellar students, not because they have some sort of magic curriculum that all other schools lack.
 
The quality of the match list is more a reflection of the quality of the students than it is an indicator of the quality of the medical school.

I wonder if you really know what you are talking about? Medical school match lists are a reflection of where their students wanted to apply to, not a reflection of anything else (much less the quality of students).

While that may be reasonable for some of the URM schools, that is not a reflection of 99% of the US MD granting schools, where there are plenty of students who could leave the state if they wanted to, and a large percentage of students who could have matched into more "competitive" residencies.
 
So basically, what I'm getting is this. The moral of the story is, if I do well in medical school, I'll match well? I shouldn't be worried about going to a big-name school like Harvard, Stanford, UCSF, etc in order to match into a good residency (but also shouldn't necessarily go to a no-name school either)?

By the way, I'm interested in a Pediatrics residency and Neonatal-Perinatal Medicine fellowship if that changes anything.
 
Peds is easy to match into from any MD granting US medical school.

Peds at Boston Children's Hospital will require you to be an all-star, with near AOA scores, letters, and research. Where Peds at most places will require average scores at best.
 
Peds is easy to match into from any MD granting US medical school.

Peds at Boston Children's Hospital will require you to be an all-star, with near AOA scores, letters, and research. Where Peds at most places will require average scores at best.

Oh okay, great to know. What does everyone else think about what fahimaz7 has said above?
 
Peds is easy to match into from any MD granting US medical school.

Peds at Boston Children's Hospital will require you to be an all-star, with near AOA scores, letters, and research. Where Peds at most places will require average scores at best.

Competitive Peds programs require competitive applicants, from CHOP, to Pitt, to Arkansas to UCSF, you have to be competitive to match there, as it is in similar competitive Derm programs. The difference in Pediatrics versus something like Derm is the "lower tier" applicants and programs. To match in Derm, you have to be a rockstar pretty much wherever you apply, even to the lesser known programs. If you're not, you probably won't match to any program in Derm. In Peds, you can be a below average to average applicant and match at a program, but it may not be the most "prestigious" (whatever people define that as). That's the difference.


On topic of match lists, they mean very little. You do your best, your application will speak for you, not the name of the school on your diploma.
 
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The whole point of most state schools is that they're trying to keep people IN STATE. That's why many of them tend to have a preference for in state applicants (except some of the highly ranked ones because they're trying to keep their average MCAT/GPA up). Ohio state schools tend to attract instate people who want to stay in ohio (as has been stated before). If you want to do a residency OOS, it shouldn't be a big deal. Cincinnati isn't the most highly ranked school in the world but it also isn't unknown.

Also, I wouldn't rule out going in state if I were you. Cincinnati's Children's Hospital is one of the most highly ranked in the country and their neonatology program is especially good. Going for Pediatrics at Cincinnati would definitely be nothing to look down on.

Of course you are jumping the gun a bit looking at residencies, considering you haven't even taken the MCAT yet...

I would definitely consider staying in-state for Cincinnati Children's.

But, I don't really see myself as jumping the gun. I like to think ahead and always have a plan at every time, even though I know perfectly well that that plan may change with time. I like to be in the know about what I'm doing sooner than later. It doesn't stress me out at all, like it may some. It actually gives me peace of mind.
 
On topic of match lists, they mean very little. You do your best, your application will speak for you, not the name of the school on your diploma.

THIS IS WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR...thanks!
 
Competitive Peds programs require competitive applicants, from CHOP, to Pitt, to Arkansas to UCSF, you have to be competitive to match there, as it is in similar competitive Derm programs. The difference in Pediatrics versus something like Derm is the "lower tier" applicants and programs. To match in Derm, you have to be a rockstar pretty much wherever you apply, even to the lesser known programs. If you're not, you probably won't match to any program in Derm. In Peds, you can be a below average to average applicant and match at a program, but it may not be the most "prestigious" (whatever people define that as). That's the difference.


On topic of match lists, they mean very little. You do your best, your application will speak for you, not the name of the school on your diploma.

Isn't that what I just wrote?
 
Isn't that what I just wrote?

Nope. You wrote "Where Peds at most places will require average scores at best." is simply false. Most Peds programs require one to be competitive. One cannot be average or worse and expect to match at "most places." Sure, you'll probably match, but don't expect to have doors open to most places.
 
Wut?

Sooo this whole time you were looking for something to confirm your own idea? You needed another random person to confirm what fahimaz said? You do realize that the other random person is just a random person who doesn't even have 20 posts and fahimaz is a medical student right? Time for you to be a little less trusting I think.

I'm about 99% certain that Jimmy has more experience than i do in this matter. Go look at his post history. He knows more about the treatment of culture negative endocarditis than I can even begin to think about.

Either way, Peds isn't a hard residency to get, unless you are aiming at the top programs in the country. If that's the case, it doesn't matter if it's Derm, Plastics, or Peds.. they are all going to require you to be a great student with well above average scores, letters, and research.

What I personally love is the fact that she hasn't even taken the MCAT, and for some reason I'm wasting my time responding to this. When I first read her post, I assumed that she was a Cali resident who was matriculating into a medical school in Washington. Since that's not the case, this is a complete waste of time. She's 5-6 years away from even starting a peds residency...
 
Sooo this whole time you were looking for something to confirm your own idea? You needed another random person to confirm what fahimaz said? You do realize that the other random person is just a random person who doesn't even have 20 posts and fahimaz is a medical student right? Time for you to be a little less trusting I think.

<20 posts don't reflect the amount of medical training I have, or my experiences in graduating from medical school, residency interviews, residency, etc. *Shrug*
 
Wut?

Sooo this whole time you were looking for something to confirm your own idea? You needed another random person to confirm what fahimaz said? You do realize that the other random person is just a random person who doesn't even have 20 posts? I mean what he's saying is true (at least from what I've gathered) and I think he's at least a med student too but still....time for you to be a little less trusting I think.

Dude. This is just a forum. It's not like I'm making any major life decisions based off of what is said here. I'm taking in everything that is said and actually discussing it with medical students and faculty here at my own school. I thanked both of them. Calm down. :)
 
THANKS GUYS! No need to argue! :)

I appreciate all of the advice that I've been given.
 
What I personally love is the fact that she hasn't even taken the MCAT, and for some reason I'm wasting my time responding to this. When I first read her post, I assumed that she was a Cali resident who was matriculating into a medical school in Washington. Since that's not the case, this is a complete waste of time. She's 5-6 years away from even starting a peds residency...

I like to do my research and be in the know sooner rather than later. Some people like surprises, I don't. Can you blame me?

We all have our different approaches to the ways we do things. Respect it.
 
Nope. You wrote "Where Peds at most places will require average scores at best." is simply false. Most Peds programs require one to be competitive. One cannot be average or worse and expect to match at "most places." Sure, you'll probably match, but don't expect to have doors open to most places.

Out of the 2300 spots in the US for a pediatric residency, the average Step 1 score is ~215. That's what, 5 points below the national average for step 1? Does this not imply that >50% of the people who matched into Peds in the US were "below average", in terms of step 1 performance?

I would say that "most" places require you to be an average US medial student, since the vast majority of them will at least look at your application, which is a lot better than what will happen at the top sites in the country.
 
I like to do my research and be in the know sooner rather than later. Some people like surprises, I don't. Can you blame me?

We all have our different approaches to the ways we do things. Respect it.

A few pearls for you..

1. SDN is full of over achievers, just like yourself, who need to have a 15 year plan
2. You have to take the MCAT prior to getting into any MD/PHD program, and be a very competitive applicant to get accepted into these
3. You will most likely change your interest and focus once you get to medical school
4. It's not easy to get AOA and a 250+ on step 1, just as it's not easy to graduate with a 4.0 and a 40 MCAT (although the former is more difficult than the latter).
5. Get off SDN while you still can, and don't come back. It's a waste of time
 
Nope. You wrote "Where Peds at most places will require average scores at best." is simply false. Most Peds programs require one to be competitive. One cannot be average or worse and expect to match at "most places." Sure, you'll probably match, but don't expect to have doors open to most places.

Idk, I posted on the thread in allo that one of the fellows in peds here at my school interviewed at all of the top peds programs (bch, chop, rainbow babies, ucsf, Cincinnati, etc) and went to a top program with a step 1 in the high 190s and top 1/3. I don't know if there were extenuating circumstances but thought I'd throw it out there.
 
A few pearls for you..

1. SDN is full of over achievers, just like yourself, who need to have a 15 year plan
2. You have to take the MCAT prior to getting into any MD/PHD program, and be a very competitive applicant to get accepted into these
3. You will most likely change your interest and focus once you get to medical school
4. It's not easy to get AOA and a 250+ on step 1, just as it's not easy to graduate with a 4.0 and a 40 MCAT (although the former is more difficult than the latter).
5. Get off SDN while you still can, and don't come back. It's a waste of time

Sweetheart, I know these things. I've heard them all before. Because I DO MY RESEARCH and talk to others. Thanks, though.

SDN is not a waste of time to me. It's a valuable source of information with all of the current medical students, MD-PhDs, residents, attendings, etc that use the site.

If you think it's such a waste of time, then you can get off SDN. But I like being here. This is a great website. :)
 
first you need to take an MCAT so you can have a halfway decent idea of what schools you can even get into.

Certainly true!

But...I still like to seek knowledge.

I honestly don't see why anyone has a problem with that. But okay. I got what I needed and now I'm exiting stage left. Thanks everyone.
 
Out of the 2300 spots in the US for a pediatric residency, the average Step 1 score is ~215. That's what, 5 points below the national average for step 1? Does this not imply that >50% of the people who matched into Peds in the US were "below average", in terms of step 1 performance?

Take a look at your link again from above. The average was 219 for matched US applicants, it drops to 214 when to add in the foreign medical grads, which unsurprisingly changes the average score.

BTW, mean =/= 50 percentile of applicants, unless the population fits a normal distribution. Peds is hardly a standard bell curve when 33/1674 went unmatched in 2009 (suggesting that programs were even taking some of the lowest percentile of students).
 
Idk, I posted on the thread in allo that one of the fellows in peds here at my school interviewed at all of the top peds programs (bch, chop, rainbow babies, ucsf, Cincinnati, etc) and went to a top program with a step 1 in the high 190s and top 1/3. I don't know if there were extenuating circumstances but thought I'd throw it out there.

Yeah, I would guess there is more to the story. Who knows, maybe he/she blew apart Step 2, knew some helpful letter writers, or had research etc that made them more than just a Step 1 number. But it is n=1.
 
Take a look at your link again from above. The average was 219 for matched US applicants, it drops to 214 when to add in the foreign medical grads, which unsurprisingly changes the average score.

BTW, mean =/= 50 percentile of applicants, unless the population fits a normal distribution. Peds is hardly a standard bell curve when 33/1674 went unmatched in 2009 (suggesting that programs were even taking some of the lowest percentile of students).

My ~215 was with the foreign medical grads. They have a ~98% chance of matching with a step 1 score of a 220. Either way, it's not a difficult specialty to get in to, and most pediatricians have no desire to train at the top programs in the country.
 
Sweetheart, I know these things. I've heard them all before. Because I DO MY RESEARCH and talk to others. Thanks, though.

SDN is not a waste of time to me. It's a valuable source of information with all of the current medical students, MD-PhDs, residents, attendings, etc that use the site.

If you think it's such a waste of time, then you can get off SDN. But I like being here. This is a great website. :)

You joined the forum 4 months ago. I joined it 7 years ago. While you may think you've done your research, you obviously haven't b/c you are asking very simple questions that 98% of the pre-meds on this forum already know the answer to.

Also, I'm not your sweetheart. I don't know you any more than anyone else on this site, and those pearls of wisdom include quite a few things that everyone on here could benefit from realizing. Medical school is a journey, of which almost every matriculant has this plan of being AOA with a 250+ board score, so they can match into the residency of their dreams, in the field that they "knew they wanted to be in since they were 3 years old"

While it may happen for some, it is truly the outlier in the class who completes the 4 year program and is still going to enter into the field that they came in lusting after.

PS. It's also a bad idea to have your picture on this forum, as ADCOM members will be able to see exactly who you are, and then look at the last 300 posts that you have made. Multiple medical schools do just that, as well as look you up on facebook/myspace.
 
Yeah, I would guess there is more to the story. Who knows, maybe he/she blew apart Step 2, knew some helpful letter writers, or had research etc that made them more than just a Step 1 number. But it is n=1.

I think peds in general is a specialty that looks at the whole applicant more than other specialties. That's simply what I've gathered from speaking with a lot of students who've matched into peds and residents/fellows.
 
Let's be peaceful guys.

No need to attack each other.
 
Right you definitely aren't...first you need to take an MCAT so you can have a halfway decent idea of what schools you can even get into.

Oh, is taking the MCAT a pre-req for asking a legit question on SDN? Wow, things make so much more sense now....
 
You joined the forum 4 months ago. I joined it 7 years ago. While you may think you've done your research, you obviously haven't b/c you are asking very simple questions that 98% of the pre-meds on this forum already know the answer to.

Also, I'm not your sweetheart. I don't know you any more than anyone else on this site, and those pearls of wisdom include quite a few things that everyone on here could benefit from realizing. Medical school is a journey, of which almost every matriculant has this plan of being AOA with a 250+ board score, so they can match into the residency of their dreams, in the field that they "knew they wanted to be in since they were 3 years old"

While it may happen for some, it is truly the outlier in the class who completes the 4 year program and is still going to enter into the field that they came in lusting after.

PS. It's also a bad idea to have your picture on this forum, as ADCOM members will be able to see exactly who you are, and then look at the last 300 posts that you have made. Multiple medical schools do just that, as well as look you up on facebook/myspace.

would you mind letting us all know when you are planning on taking Step I? at least then we can anticipate a (temporary?) endpoint for the shrillness.
 
would you mind letting us all know when you are planning on taking Step I? at least then we can anticipate a (temporary?) endpoint for the shrillness.

June 21st. Honestly though, I wouldn't have responded to this post if I had realized she wasn't matriculating yet and/or hasn't even started an AMCAS application.

Pre-allo forum gets the best of me sometime, which is why I try to avoid even getting into these discussions.
 
If peds is one of your interests, you'll have the opportunity to work at Cincinnati Children's during medical school. It is on par with Boston, CHOPS and St. Louis.

While people from this years class may have had a fair number stay in the state, you have 2 top 10 hospitals within the state according to US News and World Report(Cleveland Clinic and Cincinnati Children's)
 
If peds is one of your interests, you'll have the opportunity to work at Cincinnati Children's during medical school. It is on par with Boston, CHOPS and St. Louis.

While people from this years class may have had a fair number stay in the state, you have 2 top 10 hospitals within the state according to US News and World Report(Cleveland Clinic and Cincinnati Children's)

You seem to be forgetting about Rainbow Babies and Children's hospital, which is affiliated with University Hospitals (Case) and is consistently within the top 5 nationally.

Edit: ...as far as NICU goes, anyway.
 
You seem to be forgetting about Rainbow Babies and Children's hospital, which is affiliated with University Hospitals (Case) and is consistently within the top 5 nationally.

Edit: ...as far as NICU goes, anyway.

Yeah I just took a quick look at US News and World Reports general list for children's and general hospitals. If I were to look at specialties, I probably would have come up with more.
 
You seem to be forgetting about Rainbow Babies and Children's hospital, which is affiliated with University Hospitals (Case) and is consistently within the top 5 nationally.

Edit: ...as far as NICU goes, anyway.

They seem to be forgetting about all the other hospitals that ranked consistently within the top 5 nationally for one particular area as well.
 
http://comdo-wcnlb.uc.edu/PDFDocuments/StudentAffairs/MatchDay/matchday2011location.pdf

It seems like most of the students stayed in Ohio, at least half. Is this a bad sign? I wanted to do MD/MS Nutrition here, because it's like one of the two schools that actually have the program. But, I don't want to jeopardize my chances of getting into a good fellowship. But, maybe I'm just not understanding how all of it works. Does the match list have anything to do with how good the students did/how good the medical school is?
No. Match lists can't be interpreted that simplistically, because people take many other factors besides program prestige into consideration when deciding where to apply, interview, and rank residency programs.

First, as someone else pointed out, a lot of Cinci students are probably from OH, and they have family and friends there. These folks are likely to want to stay in OH regardless, because it's where they're from. Also, four years is a long time, and people's priorities have a tendency to change as they hit their late 20s and early 30s. So, even the students who came to Cinci from OOS may have gotten married, bought houses, and/or had children while in medical school. It's not easy to pick up and move to Cali when you have bought your dream house; your spouse loves their job; and you have great day care for the kids all in Cincinnati.

Here's an example that should make what I'm saying very clear. In my case, I'm from FL. So, say I wanted to match in Orlando for personal reasons like the ones I gave above. I list all of the other FL programs as my subsequent choices, radiating out away from Orlando (i.e., Tampa or Gainesville would be preferable to Tallahassee or Miami). However, I wind up matching at Duke, a well-known program in another state that I ranked near the bottom of my list based on geography. In this situation, from *my* perspective, it wouldn't be a very good match, even though it would look very good to you from the outside.

One other reason why match lists are difficult to interpret is that there is also no guarantee that people have even matched into the specialty they wanted. So, say I really wanted to go into plastic surgery, which is very competitive. My advisor says to me, "Q, you only got a 190 on your Step 1, your surgery rotation grades were only "passes" and not "honors," and you don't have any plastics research. You might want to reconsider your specialty choice." So instead, I decide to apply in general surgery, which is much less competitive. I wind up matching to a solid gen surg program at a well-known school, and it's one that I ranked near the top of my list. But remember, gen surg was not the specialty I actually wanted. So again, you have the situation where it looks like a good match from your perspective, but it's not the ideal match from mine.

Unfortunately, the information that really would be helpful to get from a match list (i.e., where the graduates *wanted* to go, and what specialty they *wanted* to go into) is not available. This is why many people (including me) will tell you that reading a match list is actually not very helpful in terms of telling you where you will be able or not able to go for residency. And again, what you think you want as a new med school freshman may be very different from what you want (or are able to get) as a graduating med school senior.

Hope this helps. :)
 
Nope. You wrote "Where Peds at most places will require average scores at best." is simply false. Most Peds programs require one to be competitive. One cannot be average or worse and expect to match at "most places." Sure, you'll probably match, but don't expect to have doors open to most places.
If peds requires competitive applicants, what specialty doesn't require competitive applicants?

Peds does not require competitive applicants. You might have to have a definite interest in peds and good LORs demonstrating your abilities in pediatrics, but that's different.
 
So, say I really wanted to go into plastic surgery, which is very competitive. My advisor says to me, "Q, you only got a 190 on your Step 1, your surgery rotation grades were only "passes" and not "honors," and you don't have any plastics research. You might want to reconsider your specialty choice." So instead, I decide to apply in general surgery, which is much less competitive. I wind up matching to a solid gen surg program at a well-known school, and it's one that I ranked near the top of my list.
Good luck with that. ;)
 
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