What does a IMG that can match in GAS look like?

[211498]

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Hi there!

I'm a 3rd (of 6) year med student in a German med school. I'm neither a US citizen nor a GC holder. Currently I'm thinking about going to the US after med school and starting an anesthesiology residency. I want to take STEP1 next spring, I think the preparation time that I'm planing with will be sufficient (4 months of easy learing, 1-2 hours a day; 3 months of full time learning). But anyways I don't want to aim too high, so let's calculate with a score of 210. Also I'm planing to do my remaining electives in the US, within the next 2 years twice 4 weeks (maybe EM and IM) and a total of 32 weeks in my last year (in our last year we do three 16 weeks rotations, surgery, IM and an optional specialty, mine would be anesthesiology obviously, we can only do two of those rotations abroad). To match the year after my graduation I propably can't do STEP2 CK before begining of the interviews, so I can't count on that, CS schould be done by then though. Also I plan on doing STEP3 before d-day. To finish med school within the planend 6 years it will be hard to do any major research, so I don't count on that either.

I'm sorry if this question has been asked before, but with the given facts would you think that I have ANY chance to match ANYWHERE? If yes how could I increase my chances (except from scoring as high as possible)?

Any input appreciated!

Regards,
Dominik

 

[fakin' the funk]

Here's one practicing his laryngoscopy technique:

 

[jetproppilot]

Here's one playing for tuition money.

[/IMG]

 

[211498]

Thanks very informative, I didn't know that both Ali G and Phil Ivey are also in GAS.

 

[Planktonmd]

Thanks very informative, I didn't know that both Ali G and Phil Ivey are also in GAS.

May I ask you why you want to leave Germany and train in the U.S.?
Just for my personal education and no bad intentions behind this question.

 

[211498]

Sure you may, I'm happy to answer.

First I have to state, that I like my homecountry, especially the place where I was raised, IMHO there is hardly any other place that I enjoy spending my summer more than there.

Regarding my professional future the things are different though. Some of my close friends are residents here, my mother is in her own practice and our family has many friends who are physcians in many different specialties, so I would say that, because of that and the fact that I see how working in Germany is like when doing my electives and roations here, I know what it is like to be a physician in Germany. And I find that what I hear and see very frustrating, allmost all hospitals are hardly finding any new employees, so that there's more work for those already there, you're doing a ridiculous amount of administrative work, that could easily be done by others. Your financial situation is hardly improving when finishing your residency (an attending usually only earns 500-2000€/month more before taxes than a resident).
This brings me to the point at that I say to myself "Why not try it somewhere else?", I can come back to Germany if I don't like it there, they'll welcome me with open arms. So why the US? I'm only fluent in German and English, my French is bad, I don't speak any other languages. So the english speaking countries as well as Switzerland and Austria remain, it is very hard nowadays to find a residency in the UK as a foreigner (even if from the EU). I hear that the training and the prospectives after the residency are very good, I have relatives there, I like the country and the culture, I visit the country on a regualr basis (I'm there during this summer BTW). So why not try to start a new life there?

 

[PainNGas]

Education is more sturctured (read structured) than in good ol' Germany.

Medical school educastion is about the same, just much less expensive and with vacation. and the stigma of being an IMG.

 

[RussianJoo]

Hi there!

I'm a 3rd (of 6) year med student in a German med school. I'm neither a US citizen nor a GC holder. Currently I'm thinking about going to the US after med school and starting an anesthesiology residency. I want to take STEP1 next spring, I think the preparation time that I'm planing with will be sufficient (4 months of easy learing, 1-2 hours a day; 3 months of full time learning). But anyways I don't want to aim too high, so let's calculate with a score of 210. Also I'm planing to do my remaining electives in the US, within the next 2 years twice 4 weeks (maybe EM and IM) and a total of 32 weeks in my last year (in our last year we do three 16 weeks rotations, surgery, IM and an optional specialty, mine would be anesthesiology obviously, we can only do two of those rotations abroad). To match the year after my graduation I propably can't do STEP2 CK before begining of the interviews, so I can't count on that, CS schould be done by then though. Also I plan on doing STEP3 before d-day. To finish med school within the planend 6 years it will be hard to do any major research, so I don't count on that either.

I'm sorry if this question has been asked before, but with the given facts would you think that I have ANY chance to match ANYWHERE? If yes how could I increase my chances (except from scoring as high as possible)?

Any input appreciated!

Regards,
Dominik

i think it's going to be almost impossible for you to match into gas. I am a US citizen who is going to graduate from a caribbean school, we did our first 2 years in the caribbean and our clinical years (last 2) in the US. I got a 227/95 on step1, will probably get a higher score on step2 because I am studying more now and partying less. And I am very worried about matching into Gas. If I was a US grad I wouldn't worry at all but i am considered an IMG and Gas is very competative for IMGs. So besides imporving your score, doing research and publishing papers, and getting amazing letters of recomendation there's nothing more you can do. I think the ECFMG put out the % of IMGs and FMGs that matched out of all that applied and it was something like 54% matched, and that's into all residencies, and most matched into Family Practice or Internal Medicine. Matching into a specialty will be very hard. I say stay in germany with your friends and family. You should do medicine because you love it not because you want to be rich. Maybe you picked the wrong proffession? Coming from a family of doctors you might feel obligated to become a doctor. If you truely love medicine then it shouldn't matter how much money you make.

 

[jennyboo]

It's rare but not impossible. The question to ask yourself is, do you really want to do this? Do this only if you're willing to move countries for your career and if you are really able to accept you might STAY in the US for decades, if not for the rest of your life. This is a huge commitment. (For one thing, if you don't finish training in Germany and then finish residency in the US, you will be fully qualified in only the US.) I know people who have done this; most are unusually ambitious in their careers and unusually committed to their work.

Another thing to realize is that if you do anesthesiology residency in the US, you are NOT automatically qualified to practice critical care (i.e. in an intensive care unit) as you would be in Europe. Critical care in the US is shared territory and you can do it three ways:
1) Internal medicine residency + pulmonary/critical care fellowship (4-6 years)
2) Anesthesiology residency + critical care fellowship (5 years)
3) General surgery residency + critical care fellowship (6 years)

If you have significant interest in critical care, you should know that you can do any of the above but you MUST do a fellowship after finishing residency. No fellowship, no critical care.

If you are truly interested and you are a candidate with something special to offer (research publications, previous full qualifications in another specialty, strong interest in academics, strong interest in critical care, pharmacology or physiology research), I might suggest seeking a residency position OUTSIDE the Match at a program that is very interested in recruiting academic talent. There are some very famous programs (Mass General, Johns Hopkins, that type of program) that reserve a number of residency positions outside the Match for just this type of candidate. Most likely you would feel underqualified applying, but in order to sell yourself you pretend you're qualified and apply (hey, there are no opportunities if you don't at least ask for them).

Of course, you can still apply through the Match like a regular US grad. However, applying through the Match as an "average" candidate puts you on uneven footing with the US grads being given preference. (When everyone is average, they choose the US grad.)

In summary, if you are determined to get a position you should be creative and consider getting one in a nontraditional way. It's not impossible to get one through the Match, but in order to be successful you have to ignore anyone who tells you the Match is the only way to do it (and also tells you your chances are poor).

 

[Winged Scapula]

I want to take STEP1 next spring, I think the preparation time that I'm planing with will be sufficient (4 months of easy learing, 1-2 hours a day; 3 months of full time learning). But anyways I don't want to aim too high, so let's calculate with a score of 210.

Scoring below the average is probably not a good idea especially for an IMG who needs a visa. I'd suggest some recalculating of the score you are aiming for.

 

[211498]

Thanks to everybody for their input.

@RussianJoe: I think you misunderstood me. The decission to become a physician was my own, plus I'm actually not coming from a "familiy" of doctors, it is only my mother who is a psychiatrist, not to much an inspiration for me to study medicine. My idea of coming to the US is not based on greed, I'm simply not willing to support a medical system that treats its members like slaves, here in Germany not only the doctors are unhappy, also nurses PAs, etc are.

@jennyboo: Yes, you're right. In Germany critical care is one of the main parts of being an anesthesiologst. But I have to admit, that my focus of intrest is mainly on perioperative care.

@Winged Scapula: This is what I thought, well I havn't taken Step1 yet, so maybe it is actually possible to score high. I'll try my best.

Once again thanks to everybody!

 

[amyl]

my program, cleveland clinic, takes ten foreign grads in january. however, i think many are already anesthesiologists in other countries. i think the spots are pretty competitive and you would need better scores at the least...but its a fabulous program and it doesn't hurt to apply. the other place i met european fmgs on the interview trail was miami. again, i am not sure below average scores would help you much there. try to do any away at one of these places, score as well as possible, apply super broadly (like everywhere) and have a back up plan...like some medicine programs or something if you want to come to the US.

 

[RussianJoo]

Thanks to everybody for their input.

@RussianJoe: I think you misunderstood me. The decission to become a physician was my own, plus I'm actually not coming from a "familiy" of doctors, it is only my mother who is a psychiatrist, not to much an inspiration for me to study medicine. My idea of coming to the US is not based on greed, I'm simply not willing to support a medical system that treats its members like slaves, here in Germany not only the doctors are unhappy, also nurses PAs, etc are.

@jennyboo: Yes, you're right. In Germany critical care is one of the main parts of being an anesthesiologst. But I have to admit, that my focus of intrest is mainly on perioperative care.

@Winged Scapula: This is what I thought, well I havn't taken Step1 yet, so maybe it is actually possible to score high. I'll try my best.

Once again thanks to everybody!

What makes you think that being a doctor in the US is any different? a lot of docs in the US are very unhappy as well and are treated as slaves. Medicine in the US is for the most part controlled by the insurance companies now. they decide what procedure you're going to have done because they decide if they will pay for that procedure or not and how much reimbursement the doctor will get for that procedure. Also unfortunately the US is heading towards united health care just like most of the world and thus medicine will be even more controlled by the government and by people who don't know anything about being a doctor. So if you think you're going to escape that by going to the US you will be very disappointed.

 

[fastosprintini]

hi gomer, to answer your question , you need to look like me!
ok, no need to get worried , but i am a german graduate (1991) , left the country right after medical school and lived and worked in britain for 5 years , did mainly anesthesia.
i came to the us in 1996, did anes. residency and painfellowship , life is good now...😀
yes , you can match in anesthesiology, i realize it will be more competitive and difficult than in my time when pd's took anybody with a pulse, but i feel strongly that in this country at least you can achieve anything if you put your mind to it👍
so , get going ,don't get discouraged by naysayers , you have certainly an early start good luck , fasto

 

[zackmorris fan]

I have spoken in depth with FMG's who matched in anesthesiology at ccf so I am very familiar with fmg match. Basically, you have to be an outstanding candidate to match, meaning scores above 220 (separate match that starts in october) in anesthesiology, with extensive research publications. I know an fmg who matched without research but she had very high step 1 and 2 scores. Most of the fmg's that are accepted typically do clinical research at Outcomes research for half a year to a year and a half. doing clinical research basically gets you into the door, and you basically work hard to prove yourself. I think half of the research fellows each year are offered positions. The fmg's at outcomes research are truly outstanding, most are top physicians in their respective country, many with surgical backgrounds. Although not impossible, I think an fmg who matches successfully at the clinic needs to have a very strong CV, more so than allopathics and do's.
I hope this helps.

 

[bulgethetwine]

What makes you think that being a doctor in the US is any different? a lot of docs in the US are very unhappy as well and are treated as slaves. Medicine in the US is for the most part controlled by the insurance companies now. they decide what procedure you're going to have done because they decide if they will pay for that procedure or not and how much reimbursement the doctor will get for that procedure. Also unfortunately the US is heading towards united health care just like most of the world and thus medicine will be even more controlled by the government and by people who don't know anything about being a doctor. So if you think you're going to escape that by going to the US you will be very disappointed.

Judging from your two posts, there are lot of reasons other than your low board scores and IMG status that you won't match in GAS. As for the OP:

Go for it.

Difficult, but not impossible.

 

[RussianJoo]

Judging from your two posts, there are lot of reasons other than your low board scores and IMG status that you won't match in GAS. As for the OP:

Go for it.

Difficult, but not impossible.

low board scores? I scored well above the average anesthesia applicant on step1 and plan on scoring even higher on step2. And by "other reasons" I guess you mean my negative attitude? well to be honest I am just trying to be realistic and not get my hopes too high. But I am a very hard worker and very sociable, that combined with the fact that my clinical rotations are done at US hospitals, where US medical students rotate, will put me at a great possibility of pre-matching at a community hospital, and even possibly matching at a university program if I don't take the pre-match offer.