What does a lab do if they dont get a R01 NIH grant?

[UpperEastSide]

Close their doors? what other agencies do you turn to, ya i know depending on the kind of research a lab specializes in, smaller grants can be written to smaller agencies. But its not the same as an R01.

Also, so the typical life of a PhD is really just winning 4-5 R01s throughout their career- pretty hard life don't ya think.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[raltima07]

They could get funding through the school, or collaborate with another lab, but yes, they are screwed

 

[catswym]

Close their doors? what other agencies do you turn to, ya i know depending on the kind of research a lab specializes in, smaller grants can be written to smaller agencies. But its not the same as an R01.

Also, so the typical life of a PhD is really just winning 4-5 R01s throughout their career- pretty hard life don't ya think.

There are MANY other organizations that fund labs, even just considering government: NSF, DOE, DOD for examples.

Then there are a million private orgs that fund.

I don't know if your last comment was sarcastic but finding funding is extremely difficult and people do leave because it's too hard.

 

[soundnin]

...ya i know depending on the kind of research a lab specializes in, smaller grants can be written to smaller agencies. But its not the same as an R01...

seriously, many many R01 equivalent funding out there that are field specific.

 

[chiapet874]

either they apply for other grants, or they attempt to stay operating until the next grant application cycle.

It's really not a huge deal actually- in reality the only ppl who really get paid out of the grant are the post-docs. Most graduate students are paid through their department in exchange for TA work.

In addition, most labs have stock piles of supplies, so in an event of no grants- they can still do stuff for some time.

 

[soundnin]

either they apply for other grants, or they attempt to stay operating until the next grant application cycle.

It's really not a huge deal actually- in reality the only ppl who really get paid out of the grant are the post-docs. Most graduate students are paid through their department in exchange for TA work.

In addition, most labs have stock piles of supplies, so in an event of no grants- they can still do stuff for some time.

😕

 

[RogueUnicorn]

either they apply for other grants, or they attempt to stay operating until the next grant application cycle.

It's really not a huge deal actually- in reality the only ppl who really get paid out of the grant are the post-docs. Most graduate students are paid through their department in exchange for TA work.

In addition, most labs have stock piles of supplies, so in an event of no grants- they can still do stuff for some time.

lolque

 

[anfleisch]

What lab can stay operating for an entire grant cycle without cash. Likely, they would have to apply for other grants, yes. Or try to get money from their institution as a backup for a short time. Obviously, that last part would be tough at the moment.

 

[UpperEastSide]

There are MANY other organizations that fund labs, even just considering government: NSF, DOE, DOD for examples.

Then there are a million private orgs that fund.

I don't know if your last comment was sarcastic but finding funding is extremely difficult and people do leave because it's too hard.

you can't apply for an NSF and NIH grant. They fund differnet things- NIH focused on human disease, and NSF focused on broader important research in chemistry/physics/ other nonhealth sciences.

Also, for all you aspiring MSTPs, after you submit an R01, you only have 1 chance to revise a grant following inital submission. If they don't like your revision enough to fund, you can't write a 3rd proposal for the same project, thus essentially all your PhD/ MS students are screwed if there project is included in the grant. Its true graduate students will get paid through the department, but you can't continue research if you can't order reagents if your out of funds.

I figured this is a common senerio because only ~8% of R01 submissions lead to funding.

 

[kami333]

Why, did your PI just lose his R01?

 

[GellaBella]

Hopefully the lab has other smaller grants that will allow them to continue forward in the absence of an RO1. If there is no funding coming in at all...well that is a really bad situation. If they are part of a university the university can sometimes give money for a certain period of time (a year or 2) with the assumption that the PI will continue trying to get grants throughout that entire time. If you are not funded after several attempts often you cannot be considered for tenure (if you don't have it already) and you may be basically fired and have to move to a new university that will give you more time to try and get a grant.

In my grad program we (phd candidates) were paid through the PI's grants, along with the PI salary, and anyone working in the lab.

The life of a PI is very difficult, you are constantly writing for grants and writing papers. I know my PI had to take pay cuts and let a few technicians go when we lost one grant until we were able to secure another RO1.

 

[catswym]

you can't apply for an NSF and NIH grant.

lolsob

 

[Kaustikos]

Apply for credit cards?

 

[30Percent]

When I researched as an undergraduate the lab next door had issues securing funding. His graduate students ended up having to transfer to new labs so they could get paid. All he had left was one senior doing his research and he was about to graduate. It was sad because when I first started there were two graduate students with a few undergraduates in that lab. It was a very lively lab, but at the end it was just depressing.

 

[Dr McSexy]

Apply for credit cards?

When my PI came under financial stress due to loss of grant, I pulled out my AmEx Centurion and essentially had my ticket to medical school.

 

[smarts1]

What happens when a lab is down to one post doc, a lab tech, and an undergrad fresh out of college with some research experience? That was the situation in my lab for around 2 years, when I started working there as a high school student. My PI always told me that the lab had no money, and I always wondered how the lab was doing for 2 years... I seriously thought the lab might have closed. But I don't know much about the lab system/grants to know how much having only one post doc can affect the lab.

 

[yohji]

-collaborate with other researchers
-layoffs until they get new funding
-it's much easier for MDs because they can always increase their clinical time when funding becomes tight
-there are other funding sources like the CDC, NCI, etc.

4-5 R01s is hardly enough to get a researcher through a career.

 

[UpperEastSide]

4-5 R01s is hardly enough to get a researcher through a career.

They support you for 4-5 years. The avg PhD grad will be in their late 20s, completetion of a postdoc will get you to early to mid 30s, then late 30s early 40s is probably when you score your first big grant. By the time you are 60, if you've had a successful career you will have won around 4 or 5 grants. And then you retire. Obviously this is an oversimplification, but its my view of the life of a PhD (and why i would never want this kind of life).

 

[kami333]

What happens when a lab is down to one post doc, a lab tech, and an undergrad fresh out of college with some research experience? That was the situation in my lab for around 2 years, when I started working there as a high school student. My PI always told me that the lab had no money, and I always wondered how the lab was doing for 2 years... I seriously thought the lab might have closed. But I don't know much about the lab system/grants to know how much having only one post doc can affect the lab.

You rip the time space continuum😀

It all depends on the PI and how the lab is structured. The lab I'm currently in didn't have a postdoc for a couple of years, just techs and a grad student. I know of a PI who doesn't have any techs or postdocs, just grad students. And several successful labs I know have only techs. As long as the people in the lab are knowledgeable and can think critically, it doesn't really matter what their titles are. You just want to avoid the situation where the only person who knows the science and can design experiments is the PI, they need to be focused on getting more money. As long as the number of personnel isn't decreasing, it's a non-issue.

Having a postdoc or grad student in the lab can be important for tenure track PIs though, since a lot of institutions consider being a good capable mentor an important aspect.

PS. All PIs say they don't have money. One of my old PIs had multiple R01s and DOD grants (he was one of the highest funded at our institution), yet he was always complaining about how much more money we needed. It's just the nature of the job, grant funding can be unpredictable so you try to save as much as possible.

 

[random cell]

PS. All PIs say they don't have money. One of my old PIs had multiple R01s and DOD grants (he was one of the highest funded at our institution), yet he was always complaining about how much more money we needed. It's just the nature of the job, grant funding can be unpredictable so you try to save as much as possible.

Another reason PIs say they need more money even though they were awarded a $1M grant or something is because grants expire and you need to actually use up all that money before a certain date. Otherwise you lose it. It's not like a bank account where you can stash millions, so that is just another reason PIs constantly must seek funding sources. Although I guess if you are super rich from starting a profitable company your research can effectively become self-sustaining, but that is rarer than a unicorn.

 

[smarts1]

You rip the time space continuum😀

It all depends on the PI and how the lab is structured. The lab I'm currently in didn't have a postdoc for a couple of years, just techs and a grad student. I know of a PI who doesn't have any techs or postdocs, just grad students. And several successful labs I know have only techs. As long as the people in the lab are knowledgeable and can think critically, it doesn't really matter what their titles are. You just want to avoid the situation where the only person who knows the science and can design experiments is the PI, they need to be focused on getting more money. As long as the number of personnel isn't decreasing, it's a non-issue.

Having a postdoc or grad student in the lab can be important for tenure track PIs though, since a lot of institutions consider being a good capable mentor an important aspect.

PS. All PIs say they don't have money. One of my old PIs had multiple R01s and DOD grants (he was one of the highest funded at our institution), yet he was always complaining about how much more money we needed. It's just the nature of the job, grant funding can be unpredictable so you try to save as much as possible.

Hmm yeah, that's interesting. I remember when a new postdoc came to our lab, she was so surprised we only had one postdoc for two years. On top of that, before I started working at the lab, we apparently had 5 postdocs.... Which makes me wonder what my PI did to make them all go away (Btw, one postdoc left our lab to go to the lab next door)...