What does Allied Heatlh Professional mean???

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NeilD

NeilD

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Can someone explain the concept of Allied Health Professional. Real world guys are telling me they do surgery, on staff, perform HP but can't admit without a co admit MD, can't vote at meetings and this Allied Health thing means we are on par with, Audiologist, Speech Therapist, PT, etc....

Sorry for another controversy but ARE WE or ARE WE NOT Physicians???
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NeilD said:
Can someone explain the concept of Allied Health Professional. Real world guys are telling me they do surgery, on staff, perform HP but can't admit without a co admit MD, can't vote at meetings and this Allied Health thing means we are on par with, Audiologist, Speech Therapist, PT, etc....

Sorry for another controversy but ARE WE or ARE WE NOT Physicians???
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We are physicians. Medicare recognizes our profession as physicians and the badges I have from the hospitals I work at say "Physician Staff" on them.

Are you asking if we still have work to do to garner recognition? The answer is "of course!"

Are you prepared to work at it like the rest of us do on a daily basis?

Please do a little research on these forums before posting your questions, as many of us have hashed this out many times in previous threads/posts. I know I seem cynical, but I feel the need to question your motives again. The way you are approaching these questions seems a little fishy to me.
 
Sorry I sound "fishy". I have an older Pod brother who is struggling and a Pod Uncle who lately are becoming very negative and also asking me if I want to apply to Med School? I'm having anxiety about the people closest to me and in the profession in my case raising these questions. I'm a third year and have borrowed a lot of money and spent a lot of time as all of us so it is bothering me.

I doubt I'm gonna post much in the future anymore, getting tired of suggesting or asking questions that threaten peoples sense of security with our profession. Will keep it to myself.

Thank you
 
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NeilD said:
Can someone explain the concept of Allied Health Professional. Real world guys are telling me they do surgery, on staff, perform HP but can't admit without a co admit MD, can't vote at meetings and this Allied Health thing means we are on par with, Audiologist, Speech Therapist, PT, etc....

Sorry for another controversy but ARE WE or ARE WE NOT Physicians???
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I'm not sure where you are getting the term "Allied Health Professional." I think there are some places where podiatrists are under the heading of "Allied Health" or something along those lines (military comes to mind possibly), but I haven't seen many of those cases. Like Kidsfeet said, at the hospital I am at currently (and hope to do my residency), the badges all say "Physician" or "Dr.", never "Allied Health Professional." There is a podiatrist here in Michigan who just became chief of staff for a good-sized hospital system. From what I have seen, areas where pods are still considered "Allied Health Professionals" as opposed to physicians are becoming fewer and farther between. It could be that your brother and uncle are practicing in one such area. Like I mentioned in another thread, maybe expanding your geographic opportunities would show you a more realistic view somewhere else.
 
NeilD said:
I doubt I'm gonna post much in the future anymore, getting tired of suggesting or asking questions that threaten peoples sense of security with our profession. Will keep it to myself.
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If you feel more comfortable that way, that's your decision to make.

I take issue with your comment about "threatening people's sense of security". I think your own security is feeling threatened, frankly. You are already invested in Podiatry (you are a podiatry student, right?), yet are asking all of these questions after the fact. Perhaps it would have been wise of you to get into all these issues before applying to school.

If you are in your third year, I would find it very hard to believe that these issues your uncle and brother have have just come about all of a sudden. Did you talk to them before applying to Pod School? Didn't they give you a heads up before you matriculated? That is what's "fishy" to me.
 
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Sorry to chime in again, but I find this thread and the other thread by NeilD very concerning.

Here is a 3rd year Pod student with 2 family members in our profession who doesn't seem to be very educated about the issues concerning our profession, and the issues we deal with on a daily basis in practice.

Is this a representation of what is out there in the student population? Don't people research these things before investing in their future? Especially with family members in the profession. Sorry, this really worries me.
 
Podiatrists are considered "providers" and non physicians in many medical groups, hospitals, and states. It all depends, there is little to no uniformity or consistency, still no universal scope of practice.

Medicare defintion of "physician" status is for billing purposes. This is not inflammatory, or "negative," merely, reality.

The attorney general (AG) in CA and PA does not consider podiatrists as physicians---they are "providers," whereas in other states they are classified with MDs, yet are seperate.

If the term, "physician" is used then perhaps, it refers to a physician of the foot and sometimes ankle. However, are dentists, called dental physicians, and thereby physicians of the dentition. Or NDs? are they naturopathic physicians?


Until the field gets USMLEs, LCME, ACGME, ABMS, ABSITE, then perhaps the profession can move forward.
 
Thanks Traum, that is the most helpful reply I could ask for and have been trying to research it myself but really didn't understand a lot of the definitions. I really wasn't that close to my Pod uncle or my brother and we rarely discussed the field. I mostly just followed my brother and read all the literature from the school. Thank you and thanks for not making me sound stupid.
 
Naturopathic Physician is how the refer to themselves. Some states allow them full prescription rights, the field gains more legitimacy every day.
 
You are certainly "not stupid." You are a critical thinker--which severely lacking in the states. The VA and PA courts do not permit podiatrists to testify on injury causation for bunions because in their opinion, DPMs are not physicians, and therefore, cannot render medical expert opinions on injury causation.

Courts have ruled that podiatric school and medical school have a "bright line" of differentiation. Whereas MDs/DOs are full scope, full medical standardized trainined, pods have foot training and therefore, not physicians in their definition.

The military, pods are impt, yet not classified with MDs/DOs/DDS--they are not in the medical corps. DPMs are in the "service corps." They are classified with ODs, PTs, and audiologists. All the name changing, and meetings ad infinitum, means little. What matters is educational training, LCME, ACGME, and then ABMS, then parity will occur, thereby on par with MDs, not just rhetoric and empassioned speeches, etc...

Wish you the best in your future. Keep up with critical thinking, questioning everything, you are paying 6 figs plus interest--demand excellence from yourself and your training.
 
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Traum said:
The VA and (...) courts do not permit podiatrists to testify on injury causation for bunions because in their opinion, DPMs are not physicians, and therefore, cannot render medical expert opinions on injury causation.
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This is absolutely not true. I was there when this "legislation" was initiated. The Pods in VA made a huge mistake by accepting this "provision" if they were allowed to maintain their position as Medicaid providers. It's just one of the many reasons I left that State. Basically, they accepted never being considered "expert witnesses", so that they could continue seeing the lowest paid payor with the most percentage of "aberrant" patients. I fought against this and ultimately lost, obviously. I can't speak for PA.
 
Traum said:
You are certainly "not stupid." You are a critical thinker--which severely lacking in the states.
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I never implied that NeilD was stupid. I do question your estimation of his critical thinking, as I would expect someone to initiate this type of thinking before investing as much as he has. "Critical" thinking after the fact is important, but with this type of investment it seems a little too late for that in this regard.

Have you ever lived anywhere else but "in the States"? I have, and can tell you that lack of critical thinking is a world wide affliction.
 
In that well known case, pods cannot testify against an orthopod regarding bunion injury causation, b/c they do not have medical training--"clear bright line" per appeals court; pods attend podiatric training that consists of only the foot, not medical school, which is medically based. That was the court's decision. PA too. Your statement is confusing, VA pods made the provision, then you left the state in dismay/protest-what not. It is, what it is. Pod cannot testify as experts on bunion injury causation--even though DPMs are stated to be the "premier" foot and sometimes ankle specialists.

Yes, in the states, being 19/19 for health care quality out of all the first world nations, yet #1 for health spending is something that will be dealt with by the govt. GPs and physician extenders (NPs/PAs) are what is needed; not more foot and sometimes ankle surgeons, or more of the same podiatric rhetoric and empassioned speeches. Critical thinking by many is in very, very short supply. Most are "too busy," apathetic, ignorant, or indifferent. That is reality.
 
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Traum said:
In that well known case, pods cannot testify against an orthopod regarding bunion injury causation, b/c they do not have medical training--"clear bright line" per appeals court; pods attend podiatric training that consists of only the foot, not medical school, which is medically based. That was the court's decision. PA too. Your statement is confusing, VA pods made the provision, then you left the state in dismay/protest-what not. It is, what it is. Pod cannot testify as experts on bunion injury causation--even though DPMs are stated to be the "premier" foot and sometimes ankle specialists.
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Sorry, but no. Podiatrists agreed to that stipulation. I didn't and won't. I really don't think you have your facts straight. The reason this happened in VA was so Podiatrists would maintain the ability to bill for services under Medicaid. It wasn't a court's decision/ruling at all. The VPMA proposed this to the State legislature and it was agreed upon. It was a compromise (although faulty) that Podiatrists made.

Why is my statement confusing? It wasn't the only reason I left, but one of the many. I stated that in my initial comments. As I don't know the exact reason for this in PA, I can't comment, but if your facts are as false as they are for VA, maybe there is more to it than what you claim.
 
Traum said:
IYes, in the states, being 19/19 for health care quality out of all the first world nations, yet #1 for health spending is something that will be dealt with by the govt. GPs and physician extenders (NPs/PAs) are what is needed; not more foot and sometimes ankle surgeons, or more of the same podiatric rhetoric and empassioned speeches. Critical thinking by many is in very, very short supply. Most are "too busy," apathetic, ignorant, or indifferent. That is reality.
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"Many" who? Whose reality?
 
Please google the PA court decision too regarding pods as expert witnesses, and the courts evaluation of their training compared to MDs/DOs.

Very enlightening. Critical thinking, independent thinking.
 
NeilD said:
I really wasn't that close to my Pod uncle or my brother and we rarely discussed the field.
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But now you are banking on their opinions about your future? Sorry buddy, but your story has more holes than a brick of Swiss cheese.

It's not a matter of making you seem stupid. It's a matter of knowing what you got yourself into and researching these things BEFORE you invested.
 
Traum said:
Please google the PA court decision too regarding pods as expert witnesses, and the courts evaluation of their training compared to MDs/DOs.

Very enlightening. Critical thinking, independent thinking.
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I will and thank you.

That doesn't minimize your lack of factual information about what happened in VA.
 
Thanks, and remember: Phillip K Dick's definition of reality: "That which occurs even after we stop believing in it."
 
Traum said:
Thanks, and remember: Phillip K Dick's definition of reality: "That which occurs even after we stop believing in it."
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Inherent belief has absolutely nothing to do with it in this case.
 
This is a complete waste of everyone's time please ignore this individual. This is a big joke and all this individual is causing is a fuss. If he is what he says then that is everything that is wrong with the profession, enrolling students as such.
 
G0dFather said:
This is a complete waste of everyone's time please ignore this individual. This is a big joke and all this individual is causing is a fuss. If he is what he says then that is everything that is wrong with the profession, enrolling students as such.
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And you say this because??
 
Kidsfeet said:
Sorry to chime in again, but I find this thread and the other thread by NeilD very concerning.

Here is a 3rd year Pod student with 2 family members in our profession who doesn't seem to be very educated about the issues concerning our profession, and the issues we deal with on a daily basis in practice.

Is this a representation of what is out there in the student population? Don't people research these things before investing in their future? Especially with family members in the profession. Sorry, this really worries me.
Click to expand...

Amazingly.....No. Blows my mind. And I see it a lot. And you should be worried about possibly having some of these people as future colleagues.
 
It is good to hear contrasting opinions. I don't think it scares anybody off. This goes hand in hand with Kidsfeet's question. Anybody who is serious about the profession will not be deterred from some SDN post.
 
You guys have nothing to worry about. This guy isn’t a 3rdyr podiatry student. In fact he is not even a podiatry student to begin with. Hecomes here to bash podiatry because he is jealous of everything podiatry is andhow podiatry is and continues to be a rising star. I challenge him to name hispodiatry school and the student in his Dean's list this year. I assure you thisguy is a fake and his total waste. We have nothing to worry about, he is not a colleagueand never was and never will be. He will always be looking at us and just befilled with rage and anger toward our profession and how good we have it. And justin case he reads this, podiatry was chosen as one of the top 10 best paying jobsin United States.
 
dare1183 said:
You guys have nothing to worry about. This guy isn’t a 3rdyr podiatry student. In fact he is not even a podiatry student to begin with. Hecomes here to bash podiatry because he is jealous of everything podiatry is andhow podiatry is and continues to be a rising star. I challenge him to name hispodiatry school and the student in his Dean's list this year. I assure you thisguy is a fake and his total waste. We have nothing to worry about, he is not a colleagueand never was and never will be. He will always be looking at us and just befilled with rage and anger toward our profession and how good we have it. And justin case he reads this, podiatry was chosen as one of the top 10 best paying jobsin United States.
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How do you know this for certain?
 
come on guys, NeilD = Traum. i reckon traum likes to listen to neil diamond.
 
Guys, please listen. Neil is a guy who was ejected from theNY school for cheating. Ask anyone in the class of 2010 and class of 2011. Whatelse do you expect from some disgruntled individual like him? if he can’t cheatand become a podiatrist, then he will just go on to bash podiatry to fulfillhis need to feel that he still better than the rest of his classmates whostayed ,graduated and now doing residencies. Come on Neil, give it up. Ithought you will stop making up stories like back in days. Its over Neil, go toRoss or the Caribbean school, they will tolerate your cheating habits, but justremember, you may be go through the school just fine with your cheating skills,but you will never become a doctor.
 
Dear Podiatry Student Moderator:

Please correct the erroneous assertions that the student and myself are the same.
Why is anything remotely critical of podiatry, met with caustic, visceral reactions, and must be "one person," etc...If folks want the profession to move forward, we must challenge and capsize the status quo. Or perhaps, community college acceptances are the new pathway to fill seats?

We appreciate your critical thinking skills and ability to moderate a board with integrity and honor.

Thank you.
 
hematosis said:
come on guys, NeilD = Traum. i reckon traum likes to listen to neil diamond.
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Started reading this thread. Saw Traum and thought the exact same thing. Once PADPM and Jonwill comment on this thread, it will be one of the greatest threads in history. We already got Airbud, Kidsfeet, Traum, Traum-Troll, Godfather. I mean... hey, this is looking good... I still want Gimli back though...
 
No Dtrack yet. But seriously, why are students on this forum so high strung and defensive when anyone says anything somewhat critical of podiatry. It is a bad habit and very unbecoming. And this is coming from me...
 
You have a lot of nerve Dare! I have never even been to NY - You are very confindent in your ignorance. I start asking a lot of simple questions that we ALL should know and everybody gets
defensive. This sucks! Is everybody a Pod student ZOMBIE - aren't you curious about these things and why on earth is everybody so threatened???
 
Hey Neil, that very way you act just incites more dislike. Don't group podiatry students together like that. If you want to make a reasonable case, actually present data, observations, and conclusions in a logical manner and ignore the trollers. But if your real purpose is just to screw around, well then things are justified. Of course you COULD do something to prove you're a student and not just pronounce your innocence willy nilly. I've trolled many a forum, and from my point of view, you don't seem to know much. Only a fine arts major would use anecdotal evidence to try and prove a point. How about, you tell kidsfeet to email you at your official school email and if you respond, we know you are who you say you are.
 
SuperFeisty said:
Hey Neil, that very way you act just incites more dislike. Don't group podiatry students together like that. If you want to make a reasonable case, actually present data, observations, and conclusions in a logical manner and ignore the trollers. But if your real purpose is just to screw around, well then things are justified. Of course you COULD do something to prove you're a student and not just pronounce your innocence willy nilly. I've trolled many a forum, and from my point of view, you don't seem to know much. Only a fine arts major would use anecdotal evidence to try and prove a point. How about, you tell kidsfeet to email you at your official school email and if you respond, we know you are who you say you are.
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Or he could just mention the Dean's list at his school and maintain anonymity. Either way, who cares?
 
"Beloit Health Systems in Beloit, Wisconsin has announced that Dr. Bob Sage [DPM] has been elected for a 2-year term as Chair of the Surgery Department"

-PM News

Not bad for an "Allied Health Professional" :rolleyes:
 
Traum said:
You are certainly "not stupid." You are a critical thinker--which severely lacking in the states. The VA and PA courts do not permit podiatrists to testify on injury causation for bunions because in their opinion, DPMs are not physicians, and therefore, cannot render medical expert opinions on injury causation.

Courts have ruled that podiatric school and medical school have a "bright line" of differentiation. Whereas MDs/DOs are full scope, full medical standardized trainined, pods have foot training and therefore, not physicians in their definition.

The military, pods are impt, yet not classified with MDs/DOs/DDS--they are not in the medical corps. DPMs are in the "service corps." They are classified with ODs, PTs, and audiologists. All the name changing, and meetings ad infinitum, means little. What matters is educational training, LCME, ACGME, and then ABMS, then parity will occur, thereby on par with MDs, not just rhetoric and empassioned speeches, etc...

Wish you the best in your future. Keep up with critical thinking, questioning everything, you are paying 6 figs plus interest--demand excellence from yourself and your training.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure this is accurate. I was flown into PA to testify as an expert witness regarding "bunion" and causation and for another case in PA that wasn't bunions, but causation for an amputation case. The attorney did not want to use a local DPM and wanted a more unbiased view.

IF you are referring to the inability in some states for a DPM to testify as a witness for or against an MD/DO than you are correct. But similarly, in these areas an MD/DO can not testify as a witness against a DPM. They consider the two professions different, with differing standards of care, protocol, etc.

But I know for a fact that a DPM can testify against or for another DPM (for many reasons including causation) or in a case as an expert witness in product liability, etc., since I was paid to travel to PA for such cases.

I have never been hired to testify in VA, so have no idea what the law states.
 
I just want to make quick comment regarding the profession. I'm home on spring break and sat down with a podiatrist today to discuss the profession.

He told me basically what everyone else has said on here which was a huge relief because I am always skeptical of online message boards.

He said that the amount of respect that podiatrist have gained from the medical community in the last decade is astronomical. Essentially, there will always be bad DPMs and bad MDs/DOs. He said that being apart of a small population coupled with the fact that DPMs have a separate schooling/boards turns them into an easy target for naysayers more so than their MD/DO counterparts.

He told me that if you truly are a good DPM then the medical community for which you choose to be apart of will ultimately recognize that. It just "requires a little more time,effort and imagination", in his words. Of course with this information he also informed me of the negatives which included himself working in a nursing home for 5 years, driving a car held together by duct tape and barely being able to get by with his student loans. He told me that he's seen a lot of DPM's get lazy out of school and think that everything will just magically fall into place. He told me that sometimes that works for MDs, but it almost never does for pods and optometrists.

Just a comment on salary for those who are interested. My mother got her first nursing job with this pod so so many years ago so I think he was a little bit more open with me, but he told me he makes over $175,000/year with his own practice and does not do surgeries.

Cheers. Go pods.
 
frankcfromny said:
I just want to make quick comment regarding the profession. I'm home on spring break and sat down with a podiatrist today to discuss the profession.

He told me basically what everyone else has said on here which was a huge relief because I am always skeptical of online message boards.

He said that the amount of respect that podiatrist have gained from the medical community in the last decade is astronomical. Essentially, there will always be bad DPMs and bad MDs/DOs. He said that being apart of a small population coupled with the fact that DPMs have a separate schooling/boards turns them into an easy target for naysayers more so than their MD/DO counterparts.

He told me that if you truly are a good DPM then the medical community for which you choose to be apart of will ultimately recognize that. It just "requires a little more time,effort and imagination", in his words. Of course with this information he also informed me of the negatives which included himself working in a nursing home for 5 years, driving a car held together by duct tape and barely being able to get by with his student loans. He told me that he's seen a lot of DPM's get lazy out of school and think that everything will just magically fall into place. He told me that sometimes that works for MDs, but it almost never does for pods and optometrists.

Just a comment on salary for those who are interested. My mother got her first nursing job with this pod so so many years ago so I think he was a little bit more open with me, but he told me he makes over $175,000/year with his own practice and does not do surgeries.

Cheers. Go pods.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for sharing this. I think it will give many food for thought.
 
A thought just popped into my head too...sorry for not letting this issue go!

I think pods are considered physicians but even if they're not, who cares? Does a title really make one feel better about themselves? Pods provide valuable patient care in the health care industry.

I am an EMT which is pretty low in the healthcare world, but I love doing it and feel great about caring for a patient even if it is just taking their vitals, telling them they'll be OK and suggest they relax in the shade and drink some water. I can't even tell you how appreciative ER doctors and nurses are towards us when we transport a patient to a hospital. We are all in this together.
 
I don't think it's as much about the respect and adoration of fans and beautiful women as it is about what those things entail; namely, a solid and consistent scope of practice nationwide.

Does it matter what some random fellow thinks of you? Well....I suppose that depends on whether or not he writes legislation.

I recall doing some psychology research years back that showed no increase in driving ability or awareness when using a hands-free headset as opposed to a hand-held phone, meaning basically that the problem isn't using your hands to dial or hold a phone, but rather with your ability to focus on something in front of your face instead of the abstract conversation you're having with an invisible person.

Did any of that matter when they passed legislation?

It doesn't matter what the reality is, only what the perception is (at least as far as getting things put into law). Being seen as "not quite physicians" isn't a good thing when you're trying to assure parity in reimbursements, or prevent infringement on your scope of practice.

It's important for yourself to define your "self" by your own standards, and to not let other people adjust it without good cause.

At the same time, it's important to understand how other people's view of you necessarily impacts your livelihood.
 
Big Deal, the Podaitrists I've talked to say " big deal ". Some podunk hosptial in the middle of nowhere. Nobody else wanted the position or there were only couple people on staff anyway.
The Podiatrist on the other site said that is not unusual at all. Show me where a Pod is the Chief at a big city Medical Center or University.
 
neild said:
big deal, the podaitrists i've talked to say " big deal ". Some podunk hosptial in the middle of nowhere. Nobody else wanted the position or there were only couple people on staff anyway.
The podiatrist on the other site said that is not unusual at all. Show me where a pod is the chief at a big city medical center or university.
Click to expand...


beloit where????? Is it on the map???
 
NeilD, if you don't have anything positive to post, just don't. I've followed your posts for a bit now, and from what I can tell, you're bitter and disheartened. Maybe you should consider a change of profession.
 
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