What does being competitive for a school actually mean?

[osprey099]

I'm going to apply this Spring and I recently had a meeting with my pre-med committee head advisor and he told me that my stats would make me "competitive" for my state school (which is my first option). My question is what does competitive mean in terms of percentages? I hear this term get used a lot but I'm not quite sure what to make of it. Does it mean:

A) 25% chance (i.e. you're in the mix just like everyone else and might be accepted)
B) 50% chance (50:50, who knows? up to luck)
C) 75% chance (barring any lack of social skills that may be displayed during the interview, you should be able to get in)

Thanks.

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[yellowfish]

I'm going to apply this Spring and I recently had a meeting with my pre-med committee head advisor and he told me that my stats would make me "competitive" for my state school (which is my first option). My question is what does competitive mean in terms of percentages? I hear this term get used a lot but I'm not quite sure what to make of it. Does it mean:

A) 25% chance (i.e. you're in the mix just like everyone else and might be accepted)
B) 50% chance (50:50, who knows? up to luck)
C) 75% chance (barring any lack of social skills that may be displayed during the interview, you should be able to get in)

Thanks.

Competitive is a qualitative description and to try to quantify it wouldn't make too much sense. It means (or, your pre-med advisor probably meant) that your grades and MCAT are in the range or higher than most students accepted to that school. Ceteris paribus, if you really want a "percentage" answer, I'd have to go with A. Pretty much nobody has a 75% chance at an individual school.

 

[Doctor Strange]

You're applying... In the spring?

Sent from my LT28at using SDN Mobile

 

[osprey099]

You're applying... In the spring?

Sent from my LT28at using SDN Mobile

Yea, we start our individual committee applications in April. We have to get approved by our pre-med committee before actually applying.

 

[osprey099]

Competitive is a qualitative description and to try to quantify it wouldn't make too much sense. It means (or, your pre-med advisor probably meant) that your grades and MCAT are in the range or higher than most students accepted to that school. Ceteris paribus, if you really want a "percentage" answer, I'd have to go with A. Pretty much nobody has a 75% chance at an individual school.

So from what I'm getting from your post is that being "competitive" is pretty much the best an applicant can ask for since it means he/she is about avg to the avg matriculant to that school?

 

[La Presse]

Residency may also contribute in the overall competitiveness of an applicant.


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[drizzt3117]

Competitive is a qualitative description and to try to quantify it wouldn't make too much sense. It means (or, your pre-med advisor probably meant) that your grades and MCAT are in the range or higher than most students accepted to that school. Ceteris paribus, if you really want a "percentage" answer, I'd have to go with A. Pretty much nobody has a 75% chance at an individual school.

Uh what? I'd argue certain people have Essentially 100% chance to be accepted to their state school, depending on the state and circumstances.

 

[NickNaylor]

I'm going to apply this Spring and I recently had a meeting with my pre-med committee head advisor and he told me that my stats would make me "competitive" for my state school (which is my first option). My question is what does competitive mean in terms of percentages? I hear this term get used a lot but I'm not quite sure what to make of it. Does it mean:

A) 25% chance (i.e. you're in the mix just like everyone else and might be accepted)
B) 50% chance (50:50, who knows? up to luck)
C) 75% chance (barring any lack of social skills that may be displayed during the interview, you should be able to get in)

Thanks.

Assuming you have an app with no glaring weaknesses and all of the typical stuff, I would consider an applicant "competitive" if their numbers were at or above the median. This is obviously completely arbitrary (as is any definition). It's also important to know that "competitive" in this context just means "a good shot." It by no means implies a guaranteed acceptance.

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

When people talk about being competitive, what they mean is that you're at least on par with the people typically accepted to that school, which would then imply that your chances of being accepted there are realistic (note that "realistic" =/= "good", just that "it could happen"). Hence use of the word "competitive"; it means "you are capable of competing with the other applicants".

Think of it like being in the Olympics. If you weigh 400 lbs you're probably not very competitive for the 500m dash. Even if you're the standard fare of Olympic athlete though, you're only competitive for the 500m dash; that doesn't mean you're going to win the race but merely that you can at least take part in the race without humiliating yourself.

 

[yellowfish]

Uh what? I'd argue certain people have Essentially 100% chance to be accepted to their state school, depending on the state and circumstances.

You can argue all you want, we'll never know.

 

[circulus vitios]

Uh what? I'd argue certain people have Essentially 100% chance to be accepted to their state school, depending on the state and circumstances.

The more I think about it, the more I realize what a disadvantage it is to live in a state with no true public schools. 😡

 

[pv515]

.

 

[yellowfish]

Sorry KDizzle, I gotta agree with Drizzt on this one, especially on the 100% to state school thing. This, and the following, depends on the person interviewing at a median level, as to neither help nor harm his chances.

I would even argue that once a person has a higher level, early acceptance in hand (UMich on October 15th, for example), the odds of being admitted to other high tier schools skyrocket, to somewhere greater than 50% for Ivy League schools.

At that point, it is hardly an issue of whether the applicant will be admitted to the school of his/her choice, it is a matter of how much money they will receive from the school.

Lol, no need to apologize, but there's really no such thing as an applicant who has a "100% chance of being accepted" to a school. Even talking about an individual applicant in terms of probability in the first place is silly. I'm not sure why I decided to join in on using percentages and probability because I knew people would inevitably bring this up, but seriously, nobody should have that sort of expectation and I'll leave it at that, really don't feel like arguing this moot point.

 

[NickNaylor]

Sorry KDizzle, I gotta agree with Drizzt on this one, especially on the 100% to state school thing. This, and the following, depends on the person interviewing at a median level, as to neither help nor harm his chances.

I would even argue that once a person has a higher level, early acceptance in hand (UMich on October 15th, for example), the odds of being admitted to other high tier schools skyrocket, to somewhere greater than 50% for Ivy League schools.

At that point, it is hardly an issue of whether the applicant will be admitted to the school of his/her choice, it is a matter of how much money they will receive from the school.

And this is all based on...? 😕

I think that's KDizzle's point. Your bull**** is no better than my bull**** is no better than someone else's bull****.

 

[Testosterone]

Assuming you have an app with no glaring weaknesses and all of the typical stuff, I would consider an applicant "competitive" if their numbers were at or above the median. This is obviously completely arbitrary (as is any definition). It's also important to know that "competitive" in this context just means "a good shot." It by no means implies a guaranteed acceptance.

Unfortunately for med school it also seems that 'no glaring weaknesses' also can mean 'cookie cutter'.

 

[NickNaylor]

Unfortunately for med school it also seems that 'no glaring weaknesses' also can mean 'cookie cutter'.

Being a strong but still cookie cutter applicant will not hold you back. MDApps #19291 is an example of that. True, you probably won't get into Harvard, but you can certainly still get into some great schools.

(sent from my phone)

 

[Nymphicus]

Being a strong but still cookie cutter applicant will not hold you back. MDApps #19291 is an example of that. True, you probably won't get into Harvard, but you can certainly still get into some great schools.

(sent from my phone)

Ramping up that view count eh?

 

[basedbear]

Being a strong but still cookie cutter applicant will not hold you back. MDApps #19291 is an example of that. True, you probably won't get into Harvard, but you can certainly still get into some great schools.

(sent from my phone)

Definitely seems that way. There's such a stigma about being "standard," but why not? If standard clearly leads to success

 

[Geebeejay]

I'm going to apply this Spring and I recently had a meeting with my pre-med committee head advisor and he told me that my stats would make me "competitive" for my state school (which is my first option). My question is what does competitive mean in terms of percentages? I hear this term get used a lot but I'm not quite sure what to make of it. Does it mean:

A) 25% chance (i.e. you're in the mix just like everyone else and might be accepted)
B) 50% chance (50:50, who knows? up to luck)
C) 75% chance (barring any lack of social skills that may be displayed during the interview, you should be able to get in)

Thanks.

I take being "competitive" for a school to mean you might actually have a damn chance of them not flat-out laughing at your application and throwing it right in the trash

 

[sommerwing]

Sorry KDizzle, I gotta agree with Drizzt on this one, especially on the 100% to state school thing. This, and the following, depends on the person interviewing at a median level, as to neither help nor harm his chances.

I would even argue that once a person has a higher level, early acceptance in hand (UMich on October 15th, for example), the odds of being admitted to other high tier schools skyrocket, to somewhere greater than 50% for Ivy League schools.

At that point, it is hardly an issue of whether the applicant will be admitted to the school of his/her choice, it is a matter of how much money they will receive from the school.

lol, what?

I guess we're just making things up now.

 

[TheMightySmiter]

If your stats are "competitive" for a school, it means that you won't get rejected from that school solely because your stats are too low. It doesn't mean anything about your chances. It simply indicates that you would be considered for admission, and that if you are rejected, it might be because you weren't a good fit for the school's mission, there was some red flag on your application, you didn't have appropriate ECs, you interviewed poorly, etc.

 

[TheMightySmiter]

Uh what? I'd argue certain people have Essentially 100% chance to be accepted to their state school, depending on the state and circumstances.

I dunno, it depends on the school I think. There's a poster I know on SDN who got accepted to Yake and Duke but rejected post-interview from our state school. To be fair, though, I have no idea what the hell they look for in an applicant. I think they have a Sorting Hat, maybe.

 

[quitethenovelty]

I dunno, it depends on the school I think. There's a poster I know on SDN who got accepted to Yake and Duke but rejected post-interview from our state school. To be fair, though, I have no idea what the hell they look for in an applicant. I think they have a Sorting Hat, maybe.

There's a good chance that poster wasn't as interested in the state school as he was in schools like Yale and Duke, and maybe the interviewer gleaned that from the interview, and determined that he would not make a good fit, on the premise that there is not much interest. But that sure is an anecdote!

 

[TheMightySmiter]

There's a good chance that poster wasn't as interested in the state school as he was in schools like Yale and Duke, and maybe the interviewer gleaned that from the interview, and determined that he would not make a good fit, on the premise that there is not much interest. But that sure is an anecdote!

Well, whatever it was, he was an incredible candidate and I think it just shows (n=1, of course, but there was a blanket statement made) that even the very best candidates aren't always guaranteed admission to their state school.

 

[yellowfish]

Well, whatever it was, he was an incredible candidate and I think it just shows (n=1, of course, but there was a blanket statement made) that even the very best candidates aren't always guaranteed admission to their state school.

That's all I'm saying. 👍

 

[mmmmd]

My answer depends on the number that is assigned to me on October 11th 🙁

 

[sommerwing]

OP,


The higher tier schools are basically a crap shoot.
My close friend, (41R, 3.9 from a top 20 university) was an excellent candidate with 3 years of research/multiple publications/170+ volunteer hours and plenty of shadowing/plenty of outside ECs and leadership activities.
She worked her entire undergrad career to get into a top medical school, and was basically the greatest applicant I've ever known, or even heard of.

She was not even offered interviews at some of the ivy leagues, and did not receive an acceptance from any of the "famous names." She got into Baylor though (which is a amazing medical school btw).


While on the other hand, you hear of some students with 32/3.7 getting into Yale MD.


When you are funneling through >7,000 very qualified applications to accept maybe 300 students, you need a lot of luck. A mental exercise: imagine sitting in a room with 25 other applicants, and only one of you will be chosen. Nothing is 100%

 

[NickNaylor]

Ramping up that view count eh?

If I wanted to ramp up my view count for absolutely no reason I would've left the link on my profile here.

 

[NickNaylor]

Definitely seems that way. There's such a stigma about being "standard," but why not? If standard clearly leads to success

Because this is SDN, and people tend to get a little hyped up about what is actually necessary to get into medical school. There's also a myopic focus on getting into a "top" school, which heavily skews what people recommend in terms of ECs, etc..

 

[ilikevegetables]

If your stats are "competitive" for a school, it means that you won't get rejected from that school solely because your stats are too low. It doesn't mean anything about your chances. It simply indicates that you would be considered for admission, and that if you are rejected, it might be because you weren't a good fit for the school's mission, there was some red flag on your application, you didn't have appropriate ECs, you interviewed poorly, etc.

This. Just make sure the rest of your application backs up those stats well. Again, there are still no guarantees but, by your numbers, you'll at least be in that pool that the adcom considers seriously.

 

[drizzt3117]

I dunno, it depends on the school I think. There's a poster I know on SDN who got accepted to Yake and Duke but rejected post-interview from our state school. To be fair, though, I have no idea what the hell they look for in an applicant. I think they have a Sorting Hat, maybe.

Make that candidate from Mississippi or one of the Dakotas and they'd be admitted for sure, IMO. If you don't agree, then make them 4.0/40+ and Native American...

 

[pv515]

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[sommerwing]

Do you really think that people at top schools who are getting scholarships to them are only being admitted to one or two top school each?

?

Yes. Most scholarship recipients from top medical schools are usually only admitted to one or two top schools each.

And no, your chances do not increase with each subsequent acceptance. You're basing your assumptions off a Baysian probability which is not valid here. Your base chances and not veiled, and hence remain identical to the first evaluation. Schools do not share information with one another, nor do they know if you've received an acceptance before May.

 

[hellocubed]

I think pv515 is confusing med school applications with college applications.

Dude, its very uncommon for acceptees to top medical schools to receive 3 or more acceptances from top medical schools. I think someone has been surfing MDapps for too long.

 

[NickNaylor]

I am pretty certain that gaining admission to a top 20 school early in the process means that your odds for admission to another are drastically increased. A quick look at the higher MCAT scores in the "accepted" data for Mayo on MDapps reveals this. Assuming that they are not all liars, I think it's safe to assume that most of the top school acceptances (not from the waitlist), tend to be concentrated in a limited pool of applicants. I just threw the number 50% out of nowhere, I'll grant you that, but it's an easy visual fix to see the "Accepted" column as three to four times longer than the "Rejected" column for these applicants.

Do you really think that people at top schools who are getting scholarships to them are only being admitted to one or two top school each? I would say that for each acceptance you get, your odds of getting another increase until you've heard back from every school.

Now, give these people a chance at their state school, and I would bet that they are either accepted at a 100% rate, or flat out not interviewed based on the fact that these adcoms know they will go elsewhere.

You're basically saying, "if you get accepted to the schools with the most rigorous admissions processes, you will most likely be accepted to schools with less rigorous admissions processes."

Well... duh.

And yes, most people aren't getting into Harvard, Hopkins, Yale, Penn, Stanford, and whatever other schools all in one cycle. That just doesn't happen very often.

 

[pv515]

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[Testosterone]

There are only about 20 five star recruits in the whole country. Most are scrubs that have to walk on.

 

[commserver]

There's a good chance that poster wasn't as interested in the state school as he was in schools like Yale and Duke, and maybe the interviewer gleaned that from the interview, and determined that he would not make a good fit, on the premise that there is not much interest. But that sure is an anecdote!

This is similar to applying to undergrad. I know of people not being accepted at safety school because the safety school felt that you had better choices and opportunities. Why waste admissions to someone who doesn't really want to go there? It would be better to offer admissions to someone who really wants to go there. How do you compare getting accepted at Ivy and not at school like Tulane, which is often a saftety school.

 

[45408]

Uh what? I'd argue certain people have Essentially 100% chance to be accepted to their state school, depending on the state and circumstances.

Make that candidate from Mississippi or one of the Dakotas and they'd be admitted for sure, IMO. If you don't agree, then make them 4.0/40+ and Native American...

You can ALWAYS f*ck up the interview. Nobody is a lock, ever.