what does everyone think of this

[Fiveoboy11]

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Members don't see this ad.

This has been reported to the state board of PT in PA, hopefully they will do something.


http://www.physicaltherapyphysicians.com/team.nxg

 

[jesspt]

This has been reported to the state board of PT in PA, hopefully they will do something.


http://www.physicaltherapyphysicians.com/team.nxg

I'm pretty sure that "Physical Therapy" is a protected term in Pennsylvania, so I'm guessing they're going to have to change their name...

 

[jblil]

From the website:
Dr. Tabitha Mabie grew up in the Philadelphia and Pocono areas and graduated from Central High School.

That's impressive.

 

[DancerFutureDPT]

I like that they say they also offer psychological services, yet none of them are psychologists or psychiatrists by training.

 

[fozzy40]

From the website:
Dr. Tabitha Mabie grew up in the Philadelphia and Pocono areas and graduated from Central High School.

That's impressive.

I think that they are appealing the fact that she grew up locally. As a patient and consumer, it's kind of nice to give business to those home grown.

 

[jesspt]

I like that they say they also offer psychological services, yet none of them are psychologists or psychiatrists by training.

That's no more aggregious than naming your business Physical Therapy Physicians, yet not employing a single physical therapist.

 

[atstudent]

How do you know that they don't actually employ any physical therapists? They don't list their entire staff; just doctors. They could have physical therapists on staff that just aren't listed..

 

[jesspt]

How do you know that they don't actually employ any physical therapists? They don't list their entire staff; just doctors. They could have physical therapists on staff that just aren't listed..

Technically, they list their "Team." So, you're right; I've made a bit of an assumption. But, one would hope that if you are calling your business Physical Therapy Physicians, that you would list a PT as part of the "team" if you actually have one on staff.

 

[DancerFutureDPT]

Agreed...plus they have chiropractors listed, and many claim to offer PT/rehab services in their offices, even w/o PTs on staff (again, not all chiros, but many around here advertise that way, but word it in such a way that they aren't breaking any state laws).

If you look more closely under their services, they don't list traditional PT as a service (they just list modalities, which chiros can do if I'm not mistaken), so maybe that's their loophole. Although that is a bad name for a practice if they aren't offering real PT.

 

[Fiveoboy11]

It would be an insult for a PT to actually work in this clinic. The name is inappropriate regardless, physical therapy physician's do not exist. They're just using the good and well respected name of physical therapy to attract business without the turn off of the term chiropractic and with the lure of the term physician. It is misleading and unprofessional.

I've found it is quite widespread among chiropractic businesses to advertise they practice and are licensed "physiotherapists." All of which I have found have been reported to state boards.

Any clinic with a website that provides physical therapy should have info on the PT, especially if other clincians are listed.

 

[Lifenwellness]

It would be an insult for a PT to actually work in this clinic. The name is inappropriate regardless, physical therapy physician's do not exist. They're just using the good and well respected name of physical therapy to attract business without the turn off of the term chiropractic and with the lure of the term physician. It is misleading and unprofessional.

I think I see where you going with this...
Are you passing judgement because of your own personal stereotypes of what is "good and well respected" versus what is a "turn off"?
In retrospect, one must differentiate self from the crowd, and that is hard to do when you provide so many services, each of which may be substituted by a lesser trained technician. Physical Therapy is a rehab specialty, and in rehab, I mean neuromusculoskeletal rehabilitation from the pathologies encompassed in the above fields. So long as the patient receives neuromusculoskeletal rehabilitation from a licensed provider AND benefits, I do not understand what the big deal is. At what point did we decide that different specialties targeting health & disease are in competition with one another? I am continuously shocked by the things people question regarding chiropractic, especially when they know next to nothing about it. Their opinions are derived from things they've heard or perceptions they grew up with.
Most chiropractors will tell you they need to put the vertebra into the correct place or get you into alignment. While that is partially true, it's the muscles that need to be worked on and relaxed, otherwise you're looking at long-term biomechanical changes.

 

[Fiveoboy11]

I think I see where you going with this...
Are you passing judgement because of your own personal stereotypes of what is "good and well respected" versus what is a "turn off"?
In retrospect, one must differentiate self from the crowd, and that is hard to do when you provide so many services, each of which may be substituted by a lesser trained technician. Physical Therapy is a rehab specialty, and in rehab, I mean neuromusculoskeletal rehabilitation from the pathologies encompassed in the above fields. So long as the patient receives neuromusculoskeletal rehabilitation from a licensed provider AND benefits, I do not understand what the big deal is. At what point did we decide that different specialties targeting health & disease are in competition with one another? I am continuously shocked by the things people question regarding chiropractic, especially when they know next to nothing about it. Their opinions are derived from things they've heard or perceptions they grew up with.
Most chiropractors will tell you they need to put the vertebra into the correct place or get you into alignment. While that is partially true, it's the muscles that need to be worked on and relaxed, otherwise you're looking at long-term biomechanical changes.

The big deal is that it is unprofessional. Should chiropractors state they offer phyiscal medicine and rehab? Should PM&R doctors say they offer chiropractic? Those professions are similar. But the intelligent answer is -No, because it is misleading, disrespectful, and incorrect. Just because our professions have overlap in what we provide doesn't mean everyone and their mother is a physiotherapist. I have had patient's ask me several times if I know chiropractic manipulation, and I abruptly say no. And explain to them in a professional manner that chiropractic is a different profession, but that I can and do perform manipulation as appropriate. And I go on to explain in most cases patient's complaints are multifaceted (intended) and require different interventions for different reasons. Everything I do is based on a thorough physical therapy eval, the evidence as best I know it, and resources I have. Do physician's or chiropractors know/read physical therapy literature, do a physical therapy eval, or have physical therapy resources?

 

[hefe]

Fiveo, I agree the name of the clinic is quite misleading for the modern-day healthcare consumer. I also, appreciate your posts and desire for proactivity within the profession.

However, what fozzy, jess, and yourself might find helpful piece of history in this thread regarding physiatrists and physical therapists.

Didn't PM&R physicians (physiatrists) call themselves 'Physical Therapy Physicians' upon internal recognition of subspecialty within the medical community in 1937? (JPTA Vol 17, No.3 'History of US PT' M. Moffat) [Fiveo PM for copy if you want...]

This name was kept by MD's up until 1946 when Physical Therapy Physicians decided to call themselves Physiatrists to delineate themselves from physiotherapists at the time and keep the name different for medical practitioners. This then sparked the named change from the APA to the APTA we know are familiar with today for physiotherapists in the US.

So, yes Chiropractics claiming to offer Physical Therapy is disconcerting and incorrect legally. The question is, is it still OK for in modern day for PM&R to go by their former namesake?

Modern consumers would never know this history between the two professions, but PM&R and PT's have had quite a go for many years including the name of "Physical Therapy Physicians'. Hopefully, the two professions will still understand how much they are tied historically and to this day for the benefit of the patients they see. 🙂

Thoughts?

 

[jesspt]

Fiveo, I agree the name of the clinic is quite misleading for the modern-day healthcare consumer. I also, appreciate your posts and desire for proactivity within the profession.

However, what fozzy, jess, and yourself might find helpful piece of history in this thread regarding physiatrists and physical therapists.

Didn't PM&R physicians (physiatrists) call themselves 'Physical Therapy Physicians' upon internal recognition of subspecialty within the medical community in 1937? (JPTA Vol 17, No.3 'History of US PT' M. Moffat) [Fiveo PM for copy if you want...]

This name was kept by MD's up until 1946 when Physical Therapy Physicians decided to call themselves Physiatrists to delineate themselves from physiotherapists at the time and keep the name different for medical practitioners. This then sparked the named change from the APA to the APTA we know are familiar with today for physiotherapists in the US.

So, yes Chiropractics claiming to offer Physical Therapy is disconcerting and incorrect legally. The question is, is it still OK for in modern day for PM&R to go by their former namesake?

Modern consumers would never know this history between the two professions, but PM&R and PT's have had quite a go for many years including the name of "Physical Therapy Physicians'. Hopefully, the two professions will still understand how much they are tied historically and to this day for the benefit of the patients they see. 🙂

Thoughts?

Physical Therapy is still a legally protected term in PA - my take on the whole thing is that they have illegally advertised that they are providing physical therapy. Should they wish to call it Phsyiatry and Chiropractic Physicians, more power to them. Or, Physiotherapy Physicians. But, to name their practice Physical Therapy Physicians, is not only misleading, but it is illegal.

By the way, this place has the look of a work comp/injection mill, where all of the clients are either injured workers or people who have been in an MVA. These patients tend to get all of the interventions that this type of practice offers (initial consult by MD, consult by chiro, 3x4 weeks of chiro, a series of 3 injections, followed by several more weeks of chiro, then IME).

Fozzy, does it look that way to you?

 

[Fiveoboy11]

To me physical therapy and physiotherapy are synonymous, thus neither of the terms should ever be used to advertise services by any practitioner other than a PT, regardless of a baseless state law. You're either a PT or you're not, and if you're not don't imply or state that you are. That's all there is to it.

 

[fozzy40]

Physical Therapy is still a legally protected term in PA - my take on the whole thing is that they have illegally advertised that they are providing physical therapy. Should they wish to call it Phsyiatry and Chiropractic Physicians, more power to them. Or, Physiotherapy Physicians. But, to name their practice Physical Therapy Physicians, is not only misleading, but it is illegal.

By the way, this place has the look of a work comp/injection mill, where all of the clients are either injured workers or people who have been in an MVA. These patients tend to get all of the interventions that this type of practice offers (initial consult by MD, consult by chiro, 3x4 weeks of chiro, a series of 3 injections, followed by several more weeks of chiro, then IME).

Fozzy, does it look that way to you?

Very interesting. I agree that the name is misleading. I guess I'm not sure if this technically "illegal", unprofessional, or both.

Playing devil's advocate, I guess the big question is, are there actually physical therapists there? And even if there aren't does it make using their title inappropriate? Obviously people don't like it but do they have the right to use that collection of words? Interesting!

That aside...I would not work for a place that is offering those services. Plus, I would not want to work for a place that is named that way.

 

[Lifenwellness]

The big deal is that it is unprofessional. Should chiropractors state they offer phyiscal medicine and rehab? Should PM&R doctors say they offer chiropractic? Those professions are similar. But the intelligent answer is -No, because it is misleading, disrespectful, and incorrect.

Last I checked, no other profession except Chiropractors take boards specifically regarding chiropractic (they also take the basic medical science board too). Funny though, how Chiropractors ALSO take 20% of their boards on PHYSICAL THERAPY. Did you know that? It is mandated... has been mandated... and will always be mandated because of how extremely close the skeletal & neuromuscular systems are intertwined. This isn't anything new.

 

[jesspt]

Last I checked, no other profession except Chiropractors take boards specifically regarding chiropractic (they also take the basic medical science board too). Funny though, how Chiropractors ALSO take 20% of their boards on PHYSICAL THERAPY. Did you know that? It is mandated... has been mandated... and will always be mandated because of how extremely close the skeletal & neuromuscular systems are intertwined. This isn't anything new.

So, a PHYSICAL THERAPIST helps write the board exam questions? I think not. And, I don't understand the last part of your post - do you think that physical therapy addresses ONLY the skeletal OR the neuromuscular system?

And, I'm quite certain that few, if any professions, want to include chiropractic within their board examination, given chiropractic's unfortunate historic association with the subluxation theory.

 

[Fiveoboy11]

Last I checked, no other profession except Chiropractors take boards specifically regarding chiropractic (they also take the basic medical science board too). Funny though, how Chiropractors ALSO take 20% of their boards on PHYSICAL THERAPY. Did you know that? It is mandated... has been mandated... and will always be mandated because of how extremely close the skeletal & neuromuscular systems are intertwined. This isn't anything new.

Says who? Perhaps you didn't realize that the theme of this thread is how other professionals (including chiropractors) proclaim to know and practice physical therapy. Chiropractors also proclaim to know how to treat a wide array of non NMSK diagnoses. Nobody knows what PT is or what it means to be a PT until you've gone through the schooling and have actually practiced as a licensed PT (if you're not licensed through a state board of PT, you're not a PT). This is nothing new. PT's learn about medical issues that relate and impact how they practice, this does not mean they can directly treat many of these medical issues. Thus PT's do not practice medicine (and rightly so). I'm sure Chiro's learn exercise and things other than manipulation that are commonly utilized by PT's, this does not mean they are trained and practice PT.


Why have Chiropractor's been labeled as quacks throughout history? See below, this is nothing new.

See #'s 1, 2, 4, and 7. No's 2 and 7 are especially relevant.
quack

2    /kwæk/ Show Spelled[kwak] Show IPA
noun 1. a fraudulent or ignorant pretender to medical skill.

2. a person who pretends, professionally or publicly, to skill, knowledge, or qualifications he or she does not possess; a charlatan.


adjective 3. being a quack: a quack psychologist who complicates everyone's problems.

4. presented falsely as having curative powers: quack medicine.

5. of, pertaining to, or befitting a quack or quackery: quack methods.


verb (used with object) 6. to treat in the manner of a quack.

7.to advertise or sell with fraudulent claims.

 

[Lifenwellness]

So, a PHYSICAL THERAPIST helps write the board exam questions? I think not. And, I don't understand the last part of your post - do you think that physical therapy addresses ONLY the skeletal OR the neuromuscular system?

And, I'm quite certain that few, if any professions, want to include chiropractic within their board examination, given chiropractic's unfortunate historic association with the subluxation theory.

Fortunate or not, science backs chiropractic... 🙂

 

[Lifenwellness]

Why have Chiropractor's been labeled as quacks throughout history? See below, this is nothing new.

See #'s 1, 2, 4, and 7. No's 2 and 7 are especially relevant.
quack

2    /kwæk/ Show Spelled[kwak] Show IPA
noun 1. a fraudulent or ignorant pretender to medical skill.

2. a person who pretends, professionally or publicly, to skill, knowledge, or qualifications he or she does not possess; a charlatan.


adjective 3. being a quack: a quack psychologist who complicates everyone's problems.

4. presented falsely as having curative powers: quack medicine.

5. of, pertaining to, or befitting a quack or quackery: quack methods.


verb (used with object) 6. to treat in the manner of a quack.

7.to advertise or sell with fraudulent claims.

Fiveoboy,
I really hope you're not in medical school...or any doctorate program for that matter... where is the validity in ANYTHING you are saying? There is not any... Besides, this discussion is not about Chiropractor being quacks (which I'm sure is how you were raised to believe...). Again, it shocks me how people are so judgemental when it comes to the professor, yet they have not a single clue what they're talking about.

 

[jesspt]

Fortunate or not, science backs chiropractic... 🙂

Are you saying that science backs Chiropractic, or that science backs some interventions that chiropractors use, such as spinal manipulation?

If it's the former, your idea of science and mine are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Some data that supports subluxation theory, or some evidence that these subluxations even exist, would be nice.

However, if it's the later, we might be able to have a discussion...

 

[Fiveoboy11]

So I got a letter from the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Office of General Counsel responding to my complaint. It says:

Dear ..., (supposedly I'm anonymous to the public)

This letter will acknowledge receipt of your formal complaint against Pheasant Hill Physicians ... .... ...? Then it yaps on about how they will conduct an investigation about the allegations.

I'm not sure how that makes sense because I thought the company name was as the website says.

 

[truthseeker]

I think I see where you going with this...
Are you passing judgement because of your own personal stereotypes of what is "good and well respected" versus what is a "turn off"?
In retrospect, one must differentiate self from the crowd, and that is hard to do when you provide so many services, each of which may be substituted by a lesser trained technician. Physical Therapy is a rehab specialty, and in rehab, I mean neuromusculoskeletal rehabilitation from the pathologies encompassed in the above fields. So long as the patient receives neuromusculoskeletal rehabilitation from a licensed provider AND benefits, I do not understand what the big deal is. At what point did we decide that different specialties targeting health & disease are in competition with one another? I am continuously shocked by the things people question regarding chiropractic, especially when they know next to nothing about it. Their opinions are derived from things they've heard or perceptions they grew up with.
Most chiropractors will tell you they need to put the vertebra into the correct place or get you into alignment. While that is partially true, it's the muscles that need to be worked on and relaxed, otherwise you're looking at long-term biomechanical changes.

OK, I will open a clinic that is called "chiropractic rehab clinic" and employ only physical therapists. Does it sound different to you now?

 

[dg1984]

http://chirotalk.proboards.com/index.cgi

only a PT is a PT