What does for-profit mean with respect to medical school?

[Ehwic]

As per thread topic.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[austintr]

Well, in short, for-profits aren't funded by taxpayers...they're funded by investors. Unless you count Pell grant money...then they're funded by both.

 

[Ehwic]

Oh really that's the biggest difference?

 

[austintr]

I'm sure there are plenty of differences, and I imagine this thread will receive a lot of input from different people...but, generally, that is the difference. All sorts of ethics come into play, such as: which takes precedence, profit or education? From what I understand about the corporate world, for-profit schools ideally would be concerned with maximum efficiency. How to turn out adequate physicians and keep their doors open so they keep making money for investors.

They say their true goal is to help fight the shortage of healthcare providers in underserved areas. Whether that's legitimate or not probably depends on the school.

Also, most (not all, I'm sure) students that attend a for-profit are ineligible for many federal loan repayment options. Seems kind of counterintuitive, if the schools are truly trying to educate future primary care docs for underserved areas.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Private is different than for profit though, right?

 

[austintr]

Private is different than for profit though, right?

Yeah, private is a much broader umbrella. Most DO schools are private, not-for-profit. RVU, Burrell, and most of the very new schools are for-profit. OSU, MSU and a handful of others are public.

 

[Goro]

Yes.

There are only three for-profit DO schools, BCOM and the tewo RVUs.

There is only one MD: CNU.

There are lots of private MD and DO schools.

Private is different than for profit though, right?

 

[acapnial]

I'm sure there are plenty of differences, and I imagine this thread will receive a lot of input from different people...but, generally, that is the difference. All sorts of ethics come into play, such as: which takes precedence, profit or education? From what I understand about the corporate world, for-profit schools ideally would be concerned with maximum efficiency. How to turn out adequate physicians and keep their doors open so they keep making money for investors.

They say their true goal is to help fight the shortage of healthcare providers in underserved areas. Whether that's legitimate or not probably depends on the school.

Also, most (not all, I'm sure) students that attend a for-profit are ineligible for many federal loan repayment options. Seems kind of counterintuitive, if the schools are truly trying to educate future primary care docs for underserved areas.

I am no expert on federal loan structure, so my word should be taken with a grain of salt, but I'm pretty sure there's no difference in federal loan repayment.

 

[LutGholein]

I am no expert on federal loan structure, so my word should be taken with a grain of salt, but I'm pretty sure there's no difference in federal loan repayment.

RVU has federal loan access for both branches. BCOM I don't think they've graduated a class yet so they may still not be eligible. CNU on the other had the option of getting federal loan access(via their pharmacy school) but did not pursue this option and I suppose CNU college of medicine will receive access to federal loans once they graduate a class.

 

[acapnial]

RVU has federal loan access for both branches. BCOM I don't think they've graduated a class yet so they may still not be eligible. CNU on the other had the option of getting federal loan access(via their pharmacy school) but did not pursue this option and I suppose CNU college of medicine will receive access to federal loans once they graduate a class.

RVU didn't have it until they graduated a class either. I am mystified by CNU not wanting the federal loans though. I wouldn't have even applied to RVU if they didn't have federal loans ready for my class.

 

[austintr]

I am no expert on federal loan structure, so my word should be taken with a grain of salt, but I'm pretty sure there's no difference in federal loan repayment.

This is a good point. I think I worded my post incorrectly. I meant federal loan forgiveness, rather than availability of federal loans. Things like PSLF only work on direct loans, generally, and schools have to be "participating" for students to be eligible to receive this type of fund. Students at almost every med school are eligible for these direct loans, but the few schools that don't "participate" are for-profit. This isn't to say that no students at for-profit schools can do PSLF, but just that the majority of students that don't qualify come from for-profit schools, if that makes sense. There is the option to consolidate loans to make them qualify, you just lose credit for all payments you made before consolidating. I'll see if I can find some info on this...I looked into all this PSLF stuff when I knew for sure I would be attending because I already have 7 years of qualifying employment and was hoping to somehow end up with only 3 years of nonprofit work after residency... 😉

 

[T-ara]

...
Also, most (not all, I'm sure) students that attend a for-profit are ineligible for many federal loan repayment options. Seems kind of counterintuitive, if the schools are truly trying to educate future primary care docs for underserved areas.

The way you worded this make this statement completely false. But you tried to clarify in your follow up post...

This is a good point. I think I worded my post incorrectly. I meant federal loan forgiveness, rather than availability of federal loans. Things like PSLF only work on direct loans, generally, and schools have to be "participating" for students to be eligible to receive this type of fund. Students at almost every med school are eligible for these direct loans, but the few schools that don't "participate" are for-profit. This isn't to say that no students at for-profit schools can do PSLF, but just that the majority of students that don't qualify come from for-profit schools, if that makes sense. There is the option to consolidate loans to make them qualify, you just lose credit for all payments you made before consolidating. I'll see if I can find some info on this...I looked into all this PSLF stuff when I knew for sure I would be attending because I already have 7 years of qualifying employment and was hoping to somehow end up with only 3 years of nonprofit work after residency... 😉

So how did you measure this? As you said, all that matters whether or not a student is eligible for federal loan repayment options is if the student received US direct federal loans, which is true. All current RVU students are eligible for direct federal loans, so those who receive them are eligible for any repayment opportunities afforded anyone else who receives direct federal loans. BCOM has merely admitted a single class of ~160 and is too new to receive federal aid. By law they have to operate a specified number of years before they may receive federal aid. The only school that is electively not "participating" for Title IV is CNU, which has admitted ~150 medical students so far. Any medical student in the country, regardless of tax status of their school, who receives private loans is not eligible for federal repayment options for those specific loans. So how did you factor in all students who took out private loans who don't attend BCOM or CNU when you state that "the majority of students that don't qualify come from for-profit schools?" (If you factor in the thousands of students at for-profit Caribbean schools, like SGU and Ross, who are also qualified to receive US direct federal loans thus qualified for federal repayment options, it makes you statement even more moot.)

To OP's question, the success of schools is measured by quality of education, satisfaction of its students, and residency outcomes. So far, the tax status seems to have no effect on this metric in regard to US med schools... for example, RVU-CO, the only US for-profit we can properly judge, has shown the be highly successful while there are non-profit schools that many would find questionable.