What does it take to get into a dermatology residency program?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

futureherooftime622

Full Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2017
Messages
38
Reaction score
7
I'm an IMG but I'm American. I've just graduated this year and have to do my USMLE exams. Anyway, throughout the entirety of medical school I had no idea what I wanted to do. Now after graduating, I'm very much set on dermatology. Its always been in the back of my head, but I was exploring other options such as psychiatry, general internal medicine, paediatrics, etc. I know a dermatology residency is very competitive. I have no publications as previously stated. Is it mainly based on USMLE scores (I heard minimum you should be getting 240)? Anything I could do to improve my chances?

Would appreciate your thoughts!

Members don't see this ad.
 
It’s nearly impossible for non USMDs or DOs. Research year and focusing on the few programs that accept American IMGs is your best shot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I'm an IMG but I'm American. I've just graduated this year and have to do my USMLE exams. Anyway, throughout the entirety of medical school I had no idea what I wanted to do. Now after graduating, I'm very much set on dermatology. Its always been in the back of my head, but I was exploring other options such as psychiatry, general internal medicine, paediatrics, etc. I know a dermatology residency is very competitive. I have no publications as previously stated. Is it mainly based on USMLE scores (I heard minimum you should be getting 240)? Anything I could do to improve my chances?

Would appreciate your thoughts!

I would focus your efforts elsewhere. I say this kindly and respectfully, with no intention of hurting your feelings, but I had two good friends who were US-IMGs who both made the same mistake. They took years (in one case 2 years!) off to research/make connections. They busted their tails for years, were prolific researchers, and made connections with the right people. It didn't help them. Neither matched after multiple tries.

Having sat on the other side of the admissions process, I have better perspective than I did as an applicant. Look at it from their perspective - you get 100 applications on your desk (this is after most of the applications have been filtered out). You have 3 residency slots to give away. Maybe 3-4 of the apps have lower Step 1s (below 240) that made it through for various interesting reasons - a well connected LoR, a truly noteworthy research project, etc. For most residencies, no DO or US-IMG applications will make it through the pile. There may be 1-2 FMGs (true foreigners) who have made it through because of dedicated research time and connections with the right people.

Now out of the rest of the stack, you're looking at 90+ USMD applicants, all of whom score above 240 (probably 70% of whom are above 250) with substantial publications, strong letters, and many of whom come from medical schools with top derm programs (and therefore have some true bigwig letters attached to their name).

Now can you start to see why it's such an uphill battle? The odds are so stacked against you that it's not even worth trying for, because the amount of time you would spend doing dermatology research (we're talking at least a dedicated year of research) would be better spent elsewhere. For just about every residency program, your application won't even make it through the initial screen.

For a dermatology residency program, a US IMG would fall lower on the totem pole than a true foreign grad, because being American and going abroad comes with its own baggage (I'm not getting into that debate here, but for the purposes of derm residency directors, it's true). Unfortunately when you make the decision as an American to go abroad for medical school, it comes with consequences, and the inability to match into certain fields like dermatology is one of them.

So I'd recommend exploring other fields - you sound like you have varied interests - peds, IM, and psychiatry. All could be reasonable depending on your scores. Best of luck with the application cycle.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 7 users
Members don't see this ad :)
I'm American, but I just graduated from a medical school abroad. I will be studying for my USMLEs soon. I know the STEP score is really high. I want to work as hard as I can. I have never done a rotation in dermatology and I don't have any publications.

I'm just wondering...is there absolutely zero chance for me? Dermatology is my dream program.

I would really like some positive advice/encouragement. What do you guys think?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I think you opened another thread with a similar question. The answers there were accurate. I know you are looking for "positive encouragement" but there's no use in spreading false information.

By consciously choosing to go to a foreign school as a US citizen you will be unlikely to obtain a position. Every decision including the one to attend a foreign school should be taken in light of all positives and negatives. I hope you made this decision considering all the factors.

You chances are not "zero" per se, but the folks who matched from your shoes have special attributes which are difficult to obtain. Examples that I personally know include being prolific derm basic scientist with big shot derm PI +/- having a PhD, and/or being outstanding students at some top med foreign schools like oxford/cambridge/karolinska. Sometimes unfortunately, those who matched also had connections. Even more so, they had all three of the above attributes: high profile research + top med school and scores + connections.

Good luck, that's as much as I know about matching from your situation.
 
Last edited:
I merged the two threads.

Asking multiple times in multiple threads won't change the answer.

It's an uphill climb. If you can't envision yourself doing anything but dermatology, chase it. But as others have pointed out, success rate is low.

If you think you would be happy doing something else, pursue that instead since your chances will be better.
 
I can't imagine doing anything else but dermatology. Do you have any suggestions? Right now, I'm focusing on my USMLEs.
 
I can't imagine doing anything else but dermatology. Do you have any suggestions? Right now, I'm focusing on my USMLEs.

Get as high a score as possible on your USMLE exams

Pursue a research year with a research mentor who has a history of taking American IMGs. Be aware it might take more than a year. Be aware that it might take more than a year and you still might not get a position.

Do as many away electives as possible and ace them.

Make as many connections as possible so that they can vouch for you come application time.

Apply broadly, particularly target programs who have matched American IMGs

Have a very good explanation as to why you chose to pursue medical education outside of the US when you were born here

If the thought of doing all that and not matching churns your stomach, I would echo the advice you've been provided and look to another field.
 
Let me put it even more bluntly since you don't seem to be acknowledging/understanding the posts above.

Do you have a family? Do you plan to have a family?

Ok, now after you think of that answer above.... are you OK busting your behind for 2-3 years and then at the end of doing *absolutely* everything you can, putting your heart and soul into process, you will then roll a set of 3 dice. If you roll ALL THREE 6s then you will get a residency position in dermatology and your dreams come true. If you roll ANYTHING ELSE you will have zero way to support your family, and will have to either leave medicine all together or having wasted 3 years try to get another less competitive residency (with much lower chances than you have right now),

IF you are OK with the above (basically real) scenario then have at it. Just go in with your eyes wide open.

BTW I'm dermatologist in practice.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
This guy seems so out of touch. Completely ignoring the legitimate advice and just wanting affirmation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I'm American, but I just graduated from a medical school abroad. I will be studying for my USMLEs soon. I know the STEP score is really high. I want to work as hard as I can. I have never done a rotation in dermatology and I don't have any publications.

I'm just wondering...is there absolutely zero chance for me? Dermatology is my dream program.

I would really like some positive advice/encouragement. What do you guys think?

This isn't a hype board, it's is a board for advice - most of us try to be as kind and accurate as possible. I can't lie and tell you you have a solid shot when it's close to zero.

Answer a few questions for us - where did you go to medical school? Where did you do your rotations, and did any of these rotations occur at a dermatology residency? Do you have any connections to dermatology programs? These could all change your chances.

The mistake you're making is thinking it's all about Step scores. It's not. Getting a 250+ is just the bare minimum for you; it's just to get your application through one screen. In all honesty, your application still won't make it through the IMG screen at most residency programs.

Dermatology is the dream for a lot of people, including USMDs with top scores. Many of them still fail to match. I know one person who only went to medical school (in the US) to become a dermatologist. She had a thriving career beforehand. She didn't match and is devastated. Unfortunately you can't put all your eggs in one basket. If anything, by talking about just Step scores, I think you're underestimating how difficult it is to get in.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
Members don't see this ad :)
Best bet is probably to do the best academic IM residency you can, and then try for dermatology after. There’s just, frankly, no reason to take you over the multiple other qualified USMDs. Unless you know some very important people (you don’t), or have extensive, high impact research (you don’t), it’s just not going to happen.

If they nerf modifier 25 and significantly cut reimbursement, then maybe derm will be less competitive. But until then, you’re essentially locked out.
 
Hey, so I took a look through your post history, and if it's true that you had to repeat a year of your medical education, then you do not have any chance of getting into dermatology. Harsh advice is what you need, and it's what you're avoiding. Choose family medicine or something else that IMGs are competetive in.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Hey, so I took a look through your post history, and if it's true that you had to repeat a year of your medical education, then you do not have any chance of getting into dermatology. Harsh advice is what you need, and it's what you're avoiding. Choose family medicine or something else that IMGs are competitive in.
If that's true, OP probably has no chance matching into any specialty...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Unfortunately, it sounds like a waste of your time and efforts when so many US grads, with great Step scores, fail to match derm.
 
  • Find a family friend who's a dermatologist or cold-call a program in your area to see if you can rotate there and get involved with research.
  • Concurrently, study for the Steps with the goals of scoring 290+ (if it goes that high). You get one shot for each, and - given your situation - you'll need to score >260 to be even in the ballpark of consideration.
  • If you score <250, save yourself heartbreak and wasted time, and get into a solid program in one of the other specialties.
  • If you score insanely high on Step 1 or 2, it's not enough - you'll probably need to destroy both of them for programs to consider you.
  • If by some chance this does happen, don't bother applying to programs in NYC, Chicago, LA, etc. You might have a chance in Georgia, Oklahoma, or rural Florida.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
The smarter play is to forget the sunk costs of med school and enroll in a PA program in the states. You’ll be doing derm in 2 years.
 
  • Wow
  • Sad
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
What is modifier 25?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
What is modifier 25?

Modifier 25 allows you to bill an E/M code on the same day you bill for a procedure.

It has come under fire in dermatology as obviously we do a lot of skin exams (for which we bill E/M codes) and procedures (biopsies, excisions, etc, for which we bill CPT codes)

There are numerous proposals out there to nerf modifier 25 which would significantly impact compensation.

This is a big complex way to say that what pays well today may not (probably won't) pay well tomorrow. Pick something because you have an interest in it. Or else, when the reimbursement slash inevitably hits, the misery is magnified.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I'm American, but I just graduated from a medical school abroad. I will be studying for my USMLEs soon. I know the STEP score is really high. I want to work as hard as I can. I have never done a rotation in dermatology and I don't have any publications...

You admit to not doing derm, so you cannot know what's it's truly like, and thus you cannot proclaim it's the only path for you. What you are doing is over-idealizing what the specialty represents, and are, in fact, glamorizing either the acceptance by the derm community which will satisfy your ego-ideal (ideal self) to have that title so your super-ego can feel pride and finally realize full validation, or the practicing of derm which is a mere construct of how you think derm is practiced, which, in reality, like all specialties, has its share of frustrations and disappointments. Perhaps somewhere in your evolution you were given the ultimatum to achieve perfection, and you never truly reached full validation.

Only those who have been practicing dermatology can be truthful about a declaration that derm is their only envisioned path and that they cannot imagine doing anything else.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Stumbled over from the EM forum.

Pretty bizarre to say something is your dream when you've never done a rotation in it...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
You admit to not doing derm, so you cannot know what's it's truly like, and thus you cannot proclaim it's the only path for you. What you are doing is over-idealizing what the specialty represents, and are, in fact, glamorizing either the acceptance by the derm community which will satisfy your ego-ideal (ideal self) to have that title so your super-ego can feel pride and finally realize full validation, or the practicing of derm which is a mere construct of how you think derm is practiced, which, in reality, like all specialties, has its share of frustrations and disappointments. Perhaps somewhere in your evolution you were given the ultimatum to achieve perfection, and you never truly reached full validation.

Only those who have been practicing dermatology can be truthful about a declaration that derm is their only envisioned path and that they cannot imagine doing anything else.

You sound like a psychiatrist or something..
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I am a dermatologist from India and am currently doing fellowship in Dermatopathology in USA. I never thought about it earlier but now I am considering the possibility of getting into residency here. I was an attending for 3 years before coming here and have around 10 publications including 2 research articles and 8 case reports. I have also contributed 4 chapters in different dermatology textbooks.
I have heard how difficult it is to get into dermatology residency program here especially for foreign candidates, just wanted to know if it's worth preparing for usmle or not. Thank you!
 
I am a dermatologist from India and am currently doing fellowship in Dermatopathology in USA. I never thought about it earlier but now I am considering the possibility of getting into residency here. I was an attending for 3 years before coming here and have around 10 publications including 2 research articles and 8 case reports. I have also contributed 4 chapters in different dermatology textbooks.
I have heard how difficult it is to get into dermatology residency program here especially for foreign candidates, just wanted to know if it's worth preparing for usmle or not. Thank you!

It's an uphill climb.

That being said, if you are interested in doing this, then yes, you absolutely need to prepare and ace the USMLE exams.
 
Top