What does your pharmacy manager hate most about you?

[nikkai]

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Does this also correspond to the OTC recommendations that you probably make at this point?

I doubt you do a full history with a patient asking for something for his muscle aches. Instead of finding out that they're taking Coumadin for their A. Fib, or that they had a reaction to aspirin many years back, you probably just send them straight for the Aleve...

Er... bad example...

I don't think many practicing pharmacists are that miticulous either, unfortunately. Sad, but yeah.

And to be on-topic: My manager hates it that I start rumors about her. ie: Pregnant with one of our tech's babies (sextuplets, no less). But the surprise baby-shower was fun.

 

[Carboxide]

Can I just say that my favorite thing about this thread is that Sparda29 said in a thread in the pre-pharm forum that the assistant dean of his pharmacy school knows who he is on this board and checks it?

I will laugh so hard when they read this and freak out on him.

 

[Sparda29]

Does this also correspond to the OTC recommendations that you probably make at this point?

I doubt you do a full history with a patient asking for something for his muscle aches. Instead of finding out that they're taking Coumadin for their A. Fib, or that they had a reaction to aspirin many years back, you probably just send them straight for the Aleve.

You're not going to realize how many people you've potentially harmed until later on in your schooling. Stop messing with peoples' lives just to make yourself feel better.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I actually do ask questions about their medication history even for OTC medications, if they have any medical issues or anything like that, and before I make my suggestion, I confirm with the pharmacist. And if I don't know the answer, the pharmacist will ask it.

Legal or illegal, if I didn't do half of the things that I do, our pharmacy would be extremely dysfunctional.

I'm trying to convince my boss to just ignore the tech hours rules that CVS passes down.
**** the 11 scripts/tech hour rule.

 

[cn998]

Wow, I have been patiently waiting for someone to call out Sparda29. I have been reading his posts for sometime now and I cringe everytime I read something that he writes.

Sparda29, you are out of control. You are a scary person, and will be an even scarier pharmacist (if you ever become one). You think you are king of the pharmacy... yet you probably aren't even capable of doing half of those tasks correctly. Why do I say that? Because you are so arrogant that you would never ask someone for help or ever think you are doing something wrong. I really feel sincerely bad for the patients you have dealt with/will deal with.

First of all, you come on these message board and talk like you know everything. You think that your classmates are annoying because they ask too many questions... that is ridiculous. They want to learn something, they go to pharmacy school to be trained to become a pharmacist and it is normal that they have questions. You know what, I have been a pharmacist for a few years now and I still need to ask questions and look things up... I don't know it all and I never will. I don't pretend to know things just to make myself feel better about myself. You are a student, your job is to learn... not to do the job of a pharmacist. You can do that after you graduate. You cannot counsel people before you get your intern license either... nor can you do half the tasks that you are doing. Your preceptor pharmacist can lose his/her license because of your arrogance.

Second, you act like you know everything already... you are just finishing your first semester right? You don't even know 10% of what you need to know to become a competant pharmacist.

You barely got into to Touro as I recall, right? It's not like 20 schools wanted you so bad because you are so amazing and knowledgeable.

Ugh, you need to take a step back and realize that you are a student and that there are so many things to learn that you don't even know about yet. Being a tech is nothing like being a pharmacist. While I do admit that it will help a little, it doesn't qualify you for the job of a pharmacist... thats why there is pharmacy school.

Please stop acting like you know everything and that you are god of the pharmacy world.

 

[ToldYouSo]

Seriously whatever Sparda does is his responsibility not yours mind your own life and stop being angry b/c he's able to get away with stuff. Worry about your on life please.

 

[Praziquantel86]

I think you may find that issues at your store may come not from misguided CVS policies, but from the fact that the "best" employee is a tech who practices pharmacy without a license.

 

[ItsOverZyvox]

Wow, I have been patiently waiting for someone to call out Sparda29. I have been reading his posts for sometime now and I cringe everytime I read something that he writes.

Sparda29, you are out of control. You are a scary person, and will be an even scarier pharmacist (if you ever become one). You think you are king of the pharmacy... yet you probably aren't even capable of doing half of those tasks correctly. Why do I say that? Because you are so arrogant that you would never ask someone for help or ever think you are doing something wrong. I really feel sincerely bad for the patients you have dealt with/will deal with.

First of all, you come on these message board and talk like you know everything. You think that your classmates are annoying because they ask too many questions... that is ridiculous. They want to learn something, they go to pharmacy school to be trained to become a pharmacist and it is normal that they have questions. You know what, I have been a pharmacist for a few years now and I still need to ask questions and look things up... I don't know it all and I never will. I don't pretend to know things just to make myself feel better about myself. You are a student, your job is to learn... not to do the job of a pharmacist. You can do that after you graduate. You cannot counsel people before you get your intern license either... nor can you do half the tasks that you are doing. Your preceptor pharmacist can lose his/her license because of your arrogance.

Second, you act like you know everything already... you are just finishing your first semester right? You don't even know 10% of what you need to know to become a competant pharmacist.

You barely got into to Touro as I recall, right? It's not like 20 schools wanted you so bad because you are so amazing and knowledgeable.

Ugh, you need to take a step back and realize that you are a student and that there are so many things to learn that you don't even know about yet. Being a tech is nothing like being a pharmacist. While I do admit that it will help a little, it doesn't qualify you for the job of a pharmacist... thats why there is pharmacy school.

Please stop acting like you know everything and that you are god of the pharmacy world.

I act like I know everything! That's my job!

 

[Carboxide]

Seriously whatever Sparda does is his responsibility not yours mind your own life and stop being angry b/c he's able to get away with stuff. Worry about your on life please.

No, it's everyone's responsibility because he could kill someone.

 

[Sparda29]

Wow, I have been patiently waiting for someone to call out Sparda29. I have been reading his posts for sometime now and I cringe everytime I read something that he writes.

First of all, you come on these message board and talk like you know everything. You think that your classmates are annoying because they ask too many questions... that is ridiculous. They want to learn something, they go to pharmacy school to be trained to become a pharmacist and it is normal that they have questions. You know what, I have been a pharmacist for a few years now and I still need to ask questions and look things up... I don't know it all and I never will.

Yeah, you can ask questions in lecture but don't ask the same damn question over and over again especially when the professor just talked about it 3 minutes ago. It prevents the professor from completing the lecture.

How many times are you going to ask the professor how pKa Vs pH works?

 

[Requiem]

How many times are you going to ask the professor how pKa Vs pH works?

How many times are you going to give clinical recommendations without a clinical background?

We all get annoyed with each other. The difference is their questions don't physically harm people.

Although to be fair I completely agree with you and I nearly exploded after 3.5 years of ******ed questions.

Pharmaceutics: "Can you burn water?"
Law: "Wait, you can fax paper?" in reference to narcotic pad scripts.

 

[Sparda29]

how many times are you going to give clinical recommendations without a clinical background?

We all get annoyed with each other. The difference is their questions don't physically harm people.

Although to be fair i completely agree with you and i nearly exploded after 3.5 years of ******ed questions.

Pharmaceutics: "can you burn water?"
law: "wait, you can fax paper?" in reference to narcotic pad scripts.

lmao!

 

[Quiksilver]

Wow, I have been patiently waiting for someone to call out Sparda29. I have been reading his posts for sometime now and I cringe everytime I read something that he writes.

Sparda29, you are out of control. You are a scary person, and will be an even scarier pharmacist (if you ever become one). You think you are king of the pharmacy... yet you probably aren't even capable of doing half of those tasks correctly. Why do I say that? Because you are so arrogant that you would never ask someone for help or ever think you are doing something wrong. I really feel sincerely bad for the patients you have dealt with/will deal with.

First of all, you come on these message board and talk like you know everything. You think that your classmates are annoying because they ask too many questions... that is ridiculous. They want to learn something, they go to pharmacy school to be trained to become a pharmacist and it is normal that they have questions. You know what, I have been a pharmacist for a few years now and I still need to ask questions and look things up... I don't know it all and I never will. I don't pretend to know things just to make myself feel better about myself. You are a student, your job is to learn... not to do the job of a pharmacist. You can do that after you graduate. You cannot counsel people before you get your intern license either... nor can you do half the tasks that you are doing. Your preceptor pharmacist can lose his/her license because of your arrogance.

Second, you act like you know everything already... you are just finishing your first semester right? You don't even know 10% of what you need to know to become a competant pharmacist.

You barely got into to Touro as I recall, right? It's not like 20 schools wanted you so bad because you are so amazing and knowledgeable.

Ugh, you need to take a step back and realize that you are a student and that there are so many things to learn that you don't even know about yet. Being a tech is nothing like being a pharmacist. While I do admit that it will help a little, it doesn't qualify you for the job of a pharmacist... thats why there is pharmacy school.

Please stop acting like you know everything and that you are god of the pharmacy world.

this. is. the. best. post. ever.👍👍

 

[npage148]

This is also the same kid that overrides DURs with any combination of codes that will get the reject to clear and tries to make shady boarderline unethical deals with cops. So, he's got that going for him too👍

 

[Praziquantel86]

Yeah, you can ask questions in lecture but don't ask the same damn question over and over again especially when the professor just talked about it 3 minutes ago. It prevents the professor from completing the lecture.

How many times are you going to ask the professor how pKa Vs pH works?

You seem like you take it upon yourself to tell everyone else the answers, so why not them? You might finally be helping someone.

 

[AngelaCL]

Wow, I have been patiently waiting for someone to call out Sparda29. I have been reading his posts for sometime now and I cringe everytime I read something that he writes.

Sparda29, you are out of control. You are a scary person, and will be an even scarier pharmacist (if you ever become one). You think you are king of the pharmacy... yet you probably aren't even capable of doing half of those tasks correctly. Why do I say that? Because you are so arrogant that you would never ask someone for help or ever think you are doing something wrong. I really feel sincerely bad for the patients you have dealt with/will deal with.

First of all, you come on these message board and talk like you know everything. You think that your classmates are annoying because they ask too many questions... that is ridiculous. They want to learn something, they go to pharmacy school to be trained to become a pharmacist and it is normal that they have questions. You know what, I have been a pharmacist for a few years now and I still need to ask questions and look things up... I don't know it all and I never will. I don't pretend to know things just to make myself feel better about myself. You are a student, your job is to learn... not to do the job of a pharmacist. You can do that after you graduate. You cannot counsel people before you get your intern license either... nor can you do half the tasks that you are doing. Your preceptor pharmacist can lose his/her license because of your arrogance.

Second, you act like you know everything already... you are just finishing your first semester right? You don't even know 10% of what you need to know to become a competant pharmacist.

You barely got into to Touro as I recall, right? It's not like 20 schools wanted you so bad because you are so amazing and knowledgeable.

Ugh, you need to take a step back and realize that you are a student and that there are so many things to learn that you don't even know about yet. Being a tech is nothing like being a pharmacist. While I do admit that it will help a little, it doesn't qualify you for the job of a pharmacist... thats why there is pharmacy school.

Please stop acting like you know everything and that you are god of the pharmacy world.

Sparda is a troll, I hope. I've thought that ever since I noticed his posts long ago, when he mentioned that he is too lazy to count out 480 tablets and instead would just weigh out about half the bottle, or when he said that he just punches in PA codes until he gets an override. Someone who takes shortcuts like that is not someone i want behind the counter.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

He is not a troll. He is however an ambitious student imo who wants to be somebody. However, he will learn that some things take time to learn like how the profession and the world works.

 

[Sparda29]

Sparda is a troll, I hope. I've thought that ever since I noticed his posts long ago, when he mentioned that he is too lazy to count out 480 tablets and instead would just weigh out about half the bottle, or when he said that he just punches in PA codes until he gets an override. Someone who takes shortcuts like that is not someone i want behind the counter.

Alright, after I discovered that the weighing doesn't work, I've stopped doing that.

 

[Ross434]

Sparda is a troll, I hope. I've thought that ever since I noticed his posts long ago, when he mentioned that he is too lazy to count out 480 tablets and instead would just weigh out about half the bottle, or when he said that he just punches in PA codes until he gets an override. Someone who takes shortcuts like that is not someone i want behind the counter.

trolls are people who are only here trying to deliberately piss people off. while i disagree with sparda (because of the gun thing) definitely not a troll!

 

[AngelaCL]

He just says so many crazy things that I really am hoping that he is deliberately annoying.

 

[Praziquantel86]

He is not a troll. He is however an ambitious student imo who wants to be somebody. However, he will learn that some things take time to learn how the profession and the world works.

I agree. It should be something that the school teaches much earlier in the curriculum, however.

 

[twester]

its not the pharmacist's license, its the lack of an intern license that is at stake. You are falsely practicing pharmacy posing as a pharmacy intern. I am pretty sure that is criminal. It has nothing about being progressive, its about the rest of the country lacking some educational standards. My regressive state is progressive in ensuring adequate patient care, someone who doesn't understand law, someone who doesn't have a basic understanding of the kinetics, drug design and pharmacology, or compounding has no business in calling themself an intern. Learn it in school before you practice, so you don't make a fool lof yourself and hurt a patient. Thanks.

Its kind of like letting a 1st year medical student practicing in real clinical situations, this is proposterous and I would even bet you wouldn't feel comfortable with that thought. As a doctor, I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable getting my information from a 1st year pharmacy student. Someone who does not even understand what the pharmacology of a quinolone, and why there is CI in that said drug.

your argument is based around the idea that there has to be a starting point, and to this I agree. The starting point is having some formal education before you can consider yourself as an intern and get some hands on experience.

You're talking to me? My preceptor is responsible (to a large degree) for the recommendations I make. He always asks if I'm comfortable counseling on a drug and I say no if I'm not. I rule the OTC aisles in my pharmacy, however. Sorry if that upsets you (and others in here).

I live in a state where interns are licensed and get the privilege of practicing pharmacy in a supervised setting. You calling that illegal is just a stiff, stinky gust of wind. It's been a marvelous supplement to my education. Sorry you've been cheated out of your education (or are just too naive to recognize the value of active learning).

Oh, I just want to add that comparing pharmacy education to medical education is absolutely ridiculous. You've heard of teaching hospitals right. Chances are, if you go to the ED at a teaching hospital for stitches, a 3rd year med student is going to do it. She spent the previous two years immersed in books (and maybe observing, depending on the school). Are you her first suture patient? Oooh, scary!

Sure, the second year resident will remove your gall bladder, but observed and early in training. You've never heard the cliche, "Watch one. Do one. Teach one." Medical students and faculty are always throwing that around. And you have problems with a pharmacy student counseling? Amazing and ridiculous.

 

[njac]

the reference to something illegal was a pharmacy student who is not yet an intern counseling in a state where an intern license is required. I don't think anyone is questioning your OTC counseling with your intern license.

The legality is via the Board of Pharmacy and it has been confirmed by multiple students from New York that one must complete their first year of pharmacy school in New York to obtain an intern license.

 

[twester]

the reference to something illegal was a pharmacy student who is not yet an intern counseling in a state where an intern license is required. I don't think anyone is questioning your OTC counseling with your intern license.

The legality is via the Board of Pharmacy and it has been confirmed by multiple students from New York that one must complete their first year of pharmacy school in New York to obtain an intern license.

Sorry, Quicksilver quoted me and said "you". That usually means the post is directed at me.

So, let me get this right. It's the law that's running this attack on a poster? Really, seriously? Every law is valid, after all, and that New York doesn't allow pharmacy students to "practice" means that students in New York are unqualified to counsel on medications? That defies logic. It's the epitome of what's wrong with the medical establishment.

It's illegal to drive a black car on Sunday in Denver, but you see black cars everywhere on Sunday. Some laws are just meant to be broken. If this student is being supervised, I have no problem with what he's doing.

 

[njac]

frankly, even if you're doing everything legal, if you're a douchebag we're going to give you a hard time.

You being a generic identifier, not a specific address for you twester.

 

[Praziquantel86]

Sorry, Quicksilver quoted me and said "you". That usually means the post is directed at me.

So, let me get this right. It's the law that's running this attack on a poster? Really, seriously? Every law is valid, after all, and that New York doesn't allow pharmacy students to "practice" means that students in New York are unqualified to counsel on medications? That defies logic. It's the epitome of what's wrong with the medical establishment.

It's illegal to drive a black car on Sunday in Denver, but you see black cars everywhere on Sunday. Some laws are just meant to be broken. If this student is being supervised, I have no problem with what he's doing.

I agree that some laws defy logic; this, however is not one that fits in that category. The law is designed to prevent a person who has very little beyond an introductory pharmacy knowledge from making judgment calls based on clinical know-how. I don't see how it's possible to make accurate recommendations based upon the knowledge that one might accumulate during the first semester of P1 year.

Laws like this are meant to protect the public and, to some degree, the profession of Pharmacy. For someone to blatantly disregard these well-established laws and then flaunt it in a public forum is disrespectful at best and criminal at worst.

 

[atticus27]

Seriously whatever Sparda does is his responsibility not yours mind your own life and stop being angry b/c he's able to get away with stuff. Worry about your on life please.

I think it would do you good to take a gander at a little thing they call medical ethics.

 

[Sparda29]

If it was that shocking that an unlicensed tech was making recommendations, I wonder how shocking it will be if I say what MDs allowed me to do while shadowing 😱. But I'm not gonna go there.

Whatever, I'm not gonna argue here.

Carry on with the original topic. What does your pharmacy manager hate about you?

 

[meister]

If it was that shocking that an unlicensed tech was making recommendations, I wonder how shocking it will be if I say what MDs allowed me to do while shadowing 😱.

This is true. My school sets all us M1s up with an MD preceptor once every two weeks for half a shift, just to remember why we're even here. My preceptor will let me do pretty much anything I want or feel comfortable doing. I've had to say no a few times. Pretty lol when you compare that to pharmacy where no one but an RPh or intern is allowed to talk to the high school student who's giving the MD's order for DENTIKILLIN 50 grams one tab quid.

Pharmacists should be allowed the discretion to allow technicians to do anything short of final verification of new prescriptions.

 

[Sparda29]

This is true. My school sets all us M1s up with an MD preceptor once every two weeks for half a shift, just to remember why we're even here. My preceptor will let me do pretty much anything I want or feel comfortable doing. I've had to say no a few times. Pretty lol when you compare that to pharmacy where no one but an RPh or intern is allowed to talk to the high school student who's giving the MD's order for DENTIKILLIN 50 grams one tab quid.

Pharmacists should be allowed the discretion to allow technicians to do anything short of final verification of new prescriptions.

Yes, but you were still in Med School when you went to a MD preceptor. I was in undergrad and trying to figure out if I wanted to do pharmacy or medicine, so yeah...

 

[Praziquantel86]

Well, I guess we're lucky it wasn't medicine, so that's a plus.

 

[njac]

If it was that shocking that an unlicensed tech was making recommendations, I wonder how shocking it will be if I say what MDs allowed me to do while shadowing 😱. But I'm not gonna go there.

Whatever, I'm not gonna argue here.

Carry on with the original topic. What does your pharmacy manager hate about you?

when shadowing a MD, they know you are a student.

When you are just answering the phone in the pharmacy they don't know you from Joe Blow. If you said "I'm a first year Pharm.D. student and can't legally give recommendations" they may not be so willing to listen to you. Or they might - depends on their relationship with pharmacy.

 

[PumpkinSmasher]

Well, I guess we're lucky it wasn't medicine, so that's a plus.

It is not surprising that CVS hired this prodigy of pharmacy.

 

[Quiksilver]

This is true. My school sets all us M1s up with an MD preceptor once every two weeks for half a shift, just to remember why we're even here. My preceptor will let me do pretty much anything I want or feel comfortable doing. I've had to say no a few times. Pretty lol when you compare that to pharmacy where no one but an RPh or intern is allowed to talk to the high school student who's giving the MD's order for DENTIKILLIN 50 grams one tab quid.

Pharmacists should be allowed the discretion to allow technicians to do anything short of final verification of new prescriptions.

I don't know about that, there is a lot more to being even a community pharmacist then what meets the eye. Techs lack training in law, pharmacology and even calculations. These 3 areas are basics that would prevent me from letting a tech do much more then they are comfortably.

I certainly don't trust them to counsel on anything more then an antibiotic, I know that they don't understand rules about Controlled Substances and stupid Medicaid. I know most dont know that ACE-I cause a dry cough. I don't know if I trust them more then being able to input scripts and cash people out, I know there are a few outstanding exceptions of course.

And I don't mean to be condescending to techs at all. They have their place in the pharmacy and I have mine. Confusing the 2 or implying that they are interchangable is a big mistake in my opinion. They have a job to do and they do it well. Lets not even give them the opportunity to do such a thing, as we see in this thread, it is a dangerous proposition to even allow a tech who is in his first year get such power

 

[loo]

Why is everybody's panties in a knot?

Sparda's just a youngin' with a lot of bravado...everybody goes through this stage of development at one point or another.

We all get humbled at some point too. If it hasn't already happened, it will.

No need to keep smacking each other around. "Knowledge" is a funny thing...a little can get you in just as much trouble as too much.

Now just drop it...time to kiss and make up.😍

 

[meister]

I don't know about that, there is a lot more to being even a community pharmacist then what meets the eye. Techs lack training in law, pharmacology and even calculations. These 3 areas are basics that would prevent me from letting a tech do much more then they are comfortably.

I certainly don't trust them to counsel on anything more then an antibiotic, I know that they don't understand rules about Controlled Substances and stupid Medicaid. I know most dont know that ACE-I cause a dry cough. I don't know if I trust them more then being able to input scripts and cash people out, I know there are a few outstanding exceptions of course.

And I don't mean to be condescending to techs at all. They have their place in the pharmacy and I have mine. Confusing the 2 or implying that they are interchangable is a big mistake in my opinion. They have a job to do and they do it well. Lets not even give them the opportunity to do such a thing, as we see in this thread, it is a dangerous proposition to even allow a tech who is in his first year get such power

You must work with a bunch of idiot technicians then or something, because as a tech at my pharmacy I knew more about the Controlled Substance Act, Medicaid or other stupid technical stuff like that more than any pharmacist I ever worked with bothered to know. Not bragging, but most of them just wanted to do their job well and didn't consider knowing the intricate details of such things to be necessary information. They had just enough knowledge to do their job well and legally.

However, my only point was that pharmacists should be given the discretion to allow technicians to do more than they currently do. MDs can let unlicensed personnel do almost anything (although their malpractice insurance probably wouldn't want to hear about it), why can't a pharmacist let a licensed tech who has been doing the same stuff for years take an antibiotic prescription over the phone?

It's even more silly because if you want to get really technical, state pharmacy laws in California don't even allow technicians to input new prescriptions in the computer, or take refill authorizations over the phone. There are just too many arbitrary rules that make it all seem pretty pointless.

 

[JackFruitLover]

Because I always arrive late and take too long talking to customers!

 

[nikkai]

However, my only point was that pharmacists should be given the discretion to allow technicians to do more than they currently do. MDs can let unlicensed personnel do almost anything (although their malpractice insuranceprobably wouldn't want to hear about it), why can't a pharmacist let a licensed tech who has been doing the same stuff for years take an antibiotic prescription over the phone?

I am totally for tech-check-tech systems, and empowering the tech. I love supertechs a lot more than a lot of pharmacists I've worked with.

But yeah, our insurances can't handle the liability...

 

[Sparda29]

Because I always arrive late and take too long talking to customers!

Depends how late you are, I kinda always show up at 10:05 when I'm supposed to be there at 10AM. My boss view on that changes depending on what's going on, if there are 5 customers at drop-off and 2 at pick-up and I'm 5 minutes late, he will explode into a tirade. If it's quiet, than he is like, ahh don't worry about it. For this, I usually buy coffee for the two of us and usually it counts as the biggest apology in the world for being late.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

You must work with a bunch of idiot technicians then or something, because as a tech at my pharmacy I knew more about the Controlled Substance Act, Medicaid or other stupid technical stuff like that more than any pharmacist I ever worked with bothered to know. Not bragging, but most of them just wanted to do their job well and didn't consider knowing the intricate details of such things to be necessary information. They had just enough knowledge to do their job well and legally.

However, my only point was that pharmacists should be given the discretion to allow technicians to do more than they currently do. MDs can let unlicensed personnel do almost anything (although their malpractice insurance probably wouldn't want to hear about it), why can't a pharmacist let a licensed tech who has been doing the same stuff for years take an antibiotic prescription over the phone?

It's even more silly because if you want to get really technical, state pharmacy laws in California don't even allow technicians to input new prescriptions in the computer, or take refill authorizations over the phone. There are just too many arbitrary rules that make it all seem pretty pointless.

You'll be surprised at how little you know as it's application into pharmacy. In NYS also, the laws get revised every year. I have been to several pharmacies where technicians think they know everything as per legal and pharmacy requirements, but in actuality knows nothing. What they do know was what was taught to them by the pharmacist while training. I was one of those technicians at a point in my life.

Really, unless you are a lawyer who specializes in healthcare, pharmacists are the only other professionals in healthcare who studies the laws intensively. Heck, we are the only health professionals who have to pass a law exam.

 

[Quiksilver]

You must work with a bunch of idiot technicians then or something, because as a tech at my pharmacy I knew more about the Controlled Substance Act, Medicaid or other stupid technical stuff like that more than any pharmacist I ever worked with bothered to know. Not bragging, but most of them just wanted to do their job well and didn't consider knowing the intricate details of such things to be necessary information. They had just enough knowledge to do their job well and legally.

However, my only point was that pharmacists should be given the discretion to allow technicians to do more than they currently do. MDs can let unlicensed personnel do almost anything (although their malpractice insurance probably wouldn't want to hear about it), why can't a pharmacist let a licensed tech who has been doing the same stuff for years take an antibiotic prescription over the phone?

It's even more silly because if you want to get really technical, state pharmacy laws in California don't even allow technicians to input new prescriptions in the computer, or take refill authorizations over the phone. There are just too many arbitrary rules that make it all seem pretty pointless.

when it comes down to it, the pharmacist is the last to give the prescription the final "ok". I would rather have everything and anything that leaves the doctors office, verbally, written or by computer fax, be seen/heard then having a tech do that. I don't think that the tech would really understand why fluoroquinolones are a no no with Johnny's Flintstone's Vitamins.

 

[Quiksilver]

You're talking to me? My preceptor is responsible (to a large degree) for the recommendations I make. He always asks if I'm comfortable counseling on a drug and I say no if I'm not. I rule the OTC aisles in my pharmacy, however. Sorry if that upsets you (and others in here).

I live in a state where interns are licensed and get the privilege of practicing pharmacy in a supervised setting. You calling that illegal is just a stiff, stinky gust of wind. It's been a marvelous supplement to my education. Sorry you've been cheated out of your education (or are just too naive to recognize the value of active learning).

Oh, I just want to add that comparing pharmacy education to medical education is absolutely ridiculous. You've heard of teaching hospitals right. Chances are, if you go to the ED at a teaching hospital for stitches, a 3rd year med student is going to do it. She spent the previous two years immersed in books (and maybe observing, depending on the school). Are you her first suture patient? Oooh, scary!

Sure, the second year resident will remove your gall bladder, but observed and early in training. You've never heard the cliche, "Watch one. Do one. Teach one." Medical students and faculty are always throwing that around. And you have problems with a pharmacy student counseling? Amazing and ridiculous.

sorry I missed this gem to respond to, even though this is cleared up, I have a few points to add.

Let me explain this to all and everyone, According to NYS law, technicians are not allowed to counsel patients, take phone orders or give recommendations. As simple as it may seem. A correlation to these rules states that a Pharmacy intern, may do anything that a pharmacist does in so much that the pharmacist countersigns everything and that there is a pharmacist present. A pharmacy intern must have completed his/her 1st professional year, and completed training in law and basics of pharmacy. They must have malpractice insurance and carry their license with them wherever they practice.

I must say that I am all about proactive learning. Learning in the trenches is the best way to go. My med school analogy is definitely applicable. Here's why, while you see 3rd year med students out in the hospital, they have a basic fundamental knowledge that they are supposed to fall back upon. While it may be Tammy 3rd Year closing up your wound, she certainly will know the pathogens that are in hospital that could likely cause sepsis if she decides to f it up.

It is this fundamental knowledge that is essential to be an effective pharmacist/pharmacy intern. It serves as a building block and an effective 1st step so that while you are new and have a lot to learn, you have a foundation to build upon while at the same time protecting the patient from any undo harm. In NYS, this is how it is viewed and having lived this, I'd say, it doesn't hurt the student to shut up and listen to what the pharmacist do/says for 1 year. Watch someone a little wiser handle all sorts of situations. Its to protect the patients, and instill a sense of confidence into the patients. You still get a pay raise, and you have 3 full years where you can say all you want.

 

[meister]

I am totally for tech-check-tech systems, and empowering the tech. I love supertechs a lot more than a lot of pharmacists I've worked with.

But yeah, our insurances can't handle the liability...

I don't think the effect would be quite as pronounced as you think, but what do I know?

when it comes down to it, the pharmacist is the last to give the prescription the final "ok". I would rather have everything and anything that leaves the doctors office, verbally, written or by computer fax, be seen/heard then having a tech do that. I don't think that the tech would really understand why fluoroquinolones are a no no with Johnny's Flintstone's Vitamins.

Funny thing is the pharmacists I worked with would rarely have time to check anything as they are on the phone with an MD's office. The actual checking for interactions and contraindications was done at the point of final verification. Inefficient? Yeah, obviously, but retail can be hell sometimes.

Anyway my only point is that a lot of the rules regarding the practice of medicine and pharmacy are arcane and arbitrary, and it would be nice to give pharmacists more discretion sometimes if they want it. They can always say no to techs wanting to do more **** in that case.

 

[Old Timer]

when it comes down to it, the pharmacist is the last to give the prescription the final "ok". I would rather have everything and anything that leaves the doctors office, verbally, written or by computer fax, be seen/heard then having a tech do that. I don't think that the tech would really understand why fluoroquinolones are a no no with Johnny's Flintstone's Vitamins.

Of course then you would know that anyone young enough to be on Flinstone Vitamins is too young to be on a fluoroquinolone.....

 

[meister]

To be fair, I'm 25 and take a (CVS generic) Flintstone vitamin every day.

 

[Old Timer]

To be fair, I'm 25 and take a (CVS generic) Flintstone vitamin every day.

Would you admit you are in the very very small minority of Flintstone vitamin users......???

 

[meister]

I'd argue with your characterization of "very very" small, but you're generally correct. 😀

 

[laimyours]

It's even more silly because if you want to get really technical, state pharmacy laws in California don't even allow technicians to input new prescriptions in the computer, or take refill authorizations over the phone. There are just too many arbitrary rules that make it all seem pretty pointless.

Actually that is not correct, technicians in CA can take refill authorizations over the phone and input new prescriptions into the computer...

The only difference in CA compared to some states is you must be licensed by the state by completing the CPhT exam, and the pharmacist to tech ratio is 1:1, then it is 2:3... and so on.

 

[meister]

It's pretty clear that a refill is still considered a prescription by the California state board, and oral prescriptions are only to be transcribed by a registered pharmacist. This regulation is almost never followed in practice, at least in my experience. Techs are allowed to input new ones though, you're right about that of course.

The ratio is 2:1, and it shall not be exceeded unless there are enough technicians performing clerical functions instead of allowed technician functions. 4:2 would be fine.

 

[Quiksilver]

Of course then you would know that anyone young enough to be on Flinstone Vitamins is too young to be on a fluoroquinolone.....

I thought about that, I left it in there because I like flintstone kids. I knew someone would catch on and say something. "Ten million strong and growing"

To be fair, there is some evidence out there that supports the use of them in certain cases. whether or not the concerns over toxicity are warranted, use is still not very high.

But going back to the Flintstone Kids,
I personally like the red ones, I hated the grapes. Man those were awful. If I still took vitamins I would take Flintstone Kids, they are less boring then Centrum or One-A-Day. I've been eyeing up the gummy ones at work for awhile now.

 

[kismet]

The only difference in CA compared to some states is you must be licensed by the state by completing the CPhT exam,

Or complete an accredited training program, or get an associates degree in pharmacy technology.

It's pretty clear that a refill is still considered a prescription by the California state board, and oral prescriptions are only to be transcribed by a registered pharmacist. This regulation is almost never followed in practice, at least in my experience. Techs are allowed to input new ones though, you're right about that of course.

Actually ANYONE can type new scripts..

1793.3(a) "In addition to employing a pharmacy technician to perform the tasks specified in section 1793.2, a pharmacy may employ a non-licensed person to type a prescription label or otherwise enter prescription information into a computer record system, but the responsibility for the accuracy of the prescription information and the prescription as dispensed lies with the registered pharmacist who initials the prescription or prescription record. At the direction of the registered pharmacist, a non-licensed person may also request and receive refill authorization."

(I usually can't regurgitate the lawbook off hand but I've been studying it like crazy these days preparing for a CDPH visit..) There is nothing in the lawbook that states a technician can or cannot accept a refill authorization but I'd think if a non-licensed person can do it, a tech can do it too.

This thread has been interesting... We're starting a tech-check-tech program per 1793.8.. from what I've read that will make some of you poop your pants! 😱