What else can I do to make more than the average medical doctor?

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grindtime1

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Can someone explain to me what other fields give you anything close to $200,000-$500,000 per year?

My friends are telling me that if money is what you are interested in, go into engineering, dentistry, pharmacy or business.

I'm sure engineering is better at first because you're at a solid $70,000+ after 4 years, but who honestly believes 70K > 200-500K?

Once again with dentistry, how do people come to the conclusion that 110-130K is > 200-500K?

And business is different because it requires a different set of skills. For example, I assume that most doctors could have become engineers or dentists or pharmacists because they seem to excel in math/science.

I laugh when people tell me I should have gone into business if I wanted money. I took a basic business class in high school and finished dead last in net profits for one of the projects. Bottom line is that I suck at business and wouldn't be able to make it big at all. And if I don't make it big in business (unlike in medicine) I do not make that much money at all.

So how exactly can I make more money in a field other than medicine?
 
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Dentistry is the easiest way to make your money. I have couple of friends that graduated from dent school 3 years ago and this year one made 500k and the other made 430k. They are practicing in Texas. I think going into medicine for money is the most *****ic thing you would do.

Do you think when you make 200-300k a year as a MD that is all money in your pocket? In most specialties 100k of that is automatically gone for your liability insurance. Plus you are paying for an MD with your life and time. If you are looking for money, dont do it.
 
Dentistry is the easiest way to make your money. I have couple of friends that graduated from dent school 3 years ago and this year one made 500k and the other made 430k. They are practicing in Texas. I think going into medicine for money is the most *****ic thing you would do.

Do you think when you make 200-300k a year as a MD that is all money in your pocket? In most specialties 100k of that is automatically gone for your liability insurance. Plus you are paying for an MD with your life and time. If you are looking for money, dont do it.
430K and 500K is pretty high for an MD and outrageously high for a dentist. I'm not saying I don't believe you, but the average dentist doesn't make anywhere near that much. 125-130K is probably the median dentist salary. Every field will have outliers.

I'm talking about the median though. If you weren't going to make it big and were simply average in your field, what could you do to make more than 200K/year? Nothing.
 
The thing is with medicine is that it takes many years to make that much money... and it's only the specialized fields that are in the salary range that you mentioned.

Engineering is good because you can get a solid well-paying job in 4 years, and if you go to a cheap undergrad school, you might not even end up with that much debt. Compare that to medicine where you might spend 12 years training and come out with a lot of debt you will have to pay off.

Besides, I find it odd that you're asking what jobs make more money than medicine. What kind of lifestyle are you looking for anyway?
 
Dentistry is the easiest way to make your money. I have couple of friends that graduated from dent school 3 years ago and this year one made 500k and the other made 430k. They are practicing in Texas. I think going into medicine for money is the most *****ic thing you would do.

Do you think when you make 200-300k a year as a MD that is all money in your pocket? In most specialties 100k of that is automatically gone for your liability insurance. Plus you are paying for an MD with your life and time. If you are looking for money, dont do it.

Salaries reported are after malpractice insurance. (Did you think OB/GYNs make like $70k?)

If you really want money (and you're smart) - go to a good (top 15) law school. You can start getting 6 figures by age 25, and by age 30 you'll be making as much money as a doctor without nearly as much debt. Partners at a good law firm make > $200k.
 
The point is, if you're smart enough to make it through the process of becoming a doctor, you could have applied your skills in fields that are more rewarding to those who are that smart and skilled, i.e. business.

How do you make that much in business? Couple of different ways without "making it big" or coming up with the next "Google" discovery. I-Bankers get paid well over $100,000 if bonuses are included THEIR FIRST YEAR out of school and literally work over 100 hours per week. This gets up around $200,000 shortly (1-2 years) thereafter. Then you get an easy-in into a top 10 MBA program after 2-3 years of I-banking, come out and rejoin Goldman and make ~$500,000. Do the math including debt and timeline and opportunity cost, and I-banking is at least ONE field that can make you significantly more money than medicine.

There are other fields I'm sure, but I investigated i-banking before medicine and turned it down to do what I felt I'd enjoy more and derive more satisfaction out of. Medicine does not reward smarts, skills, and hard work in the form of money as much as other fields do.
 
The thing is with medicine is that it takes many years to make that much money... and it's only the specialized fields that are in the salary range that you mentioned.

Engineering is good because you can get a solid well-paying job in 4 years, and if you go to a cheap undergrad school, you might not even end up with that much debt. Compare that to medicine where you might spend 12 years training and come out with a lot of debt you will have to pay off.

Besides, I find it odd that you're asking what jobs make more money than medicine. What kind of lifestyle are you looking for anyway?
Looking around, I don't see my friends' parents who are engineers or dentists driving around in a Lexus/Benz or living in million dollar houses.

But my friends whose parents are doctors? Every single one of them has that stuff.

So how is it smarter to go into engineering, pharmacy or dentistry when these guys cannot afford half of what doctors have?
 
Can someone explain to me what other fields give you anything close to $200,000-$500,000 per year?

My friends are telling me that if money is what you are interested in, go into engineering, dentistry, pharmacy or business.

I'm sure engineering is better at first because you're at a solid $70,000+ after 4 years, but who honestly believes 70K > 200-500K?

Once again with dentistry, how do people come to the conclusion that 110-130K is > 200-500K?

And business is different because it requires a different set of skills. For example, I assume that most doctors could have become engineers or denists or pharmacists because they seem to excel in math/science.

I laugh when people tell me I should have gone into business if I wanted money. I took a basic business class in high school and finished dead last in net profits for one of the projects. Bottom line is that I suck at business and wouldn't be able to make it big at all. And if I don't make it big in business (unlike in medicine) I do not make that much money at all.

So how exactly can I make more money in a field other than medicine?

Are we really at this part of the pre-med SDN cycle AGAIN?! Ok... once again, the answer to this question is -- medicine doesn't pay well enough to go into it for the money. If you want to make a lot of money, try a field where you make a lot per hour and have lower liability. Especially considering Obamacare, medical doctors are unlikely to be making 250+k/yr anymore in any specialty within the next few yrs. With med school debt and 10 yrs of your life beyond college basically gone, this is a bad career choice unless you are willing to give your life to your patients. It is a career of self-sacrifice. No career is without risks. Business is your best bet for "a lot of money"...or law. Both of these incur large risks, that is, most people in these fields make crap, but their earning potential, at least in theory, greatly exceeds that of physicians. (It's just that the mean is much lower with a much wider SD.)
 
But my friends whose parents are doctors? Every single one of them has that stuff.

Don't have any friends whose parents are pediatricians?🙂

I drive a decade old Subaru and love it and have no plans on getting rid of it in the next 10 years or so. Our house is fully paid off and appraised at WAAAAY less than a million dollars or even half of that. I do have a thing for new Macintosh computers though and am waiting to buy Diablo 3.

YMMV. We now return to the usual daily thread about whether doctoring or financing is a better way to get rich.
 
So how exactly can I make more money in a field other than medicine?

Dentistry is really the only sure shot on your list of stuff to make lots of money. Orthodontics in particular is super competative and could put you into the high end of your listed earnings range.

Law and business, despite what you may hear here, are currently average much lower paying than medicine. The plus is the earning ceiling is damn near unlimited, but your chances of making the big bucks are slim. The other plus is you can start making money earlier, but on a long-term time line they're still on average going to be surpased by docs. Worse job stability too.

So basically the whole go into business thing is a lie propagated by those who want to feel like they're super-selfless.

If Obama care changes any of this remains to be seen. I don't think it'll be as drastic a change as some on here think it'll be.

Edit:However, if you want to be a super-millionare/billionare medicine isn't where it's at.
 
The thing about medicine is that while you're spending time in school going massively in debt your engineering friends are making solid incomes and are able to put away money for retirment and accrue wealth. That interest on those savings really adds up over the 7 years or so of training.

As for the docs driving the expensive cars and living in mansions, don't assume they own those outright and don't owe anything on them. They might still be up to their eyeballs in debt. I have an aunt that's a CPA lives in a huge house with a 6 car garage and has all sorts of cool toys, doesn't have much of a retirement fund and I don't know if she's happy. If you're really interested in this topic there's a great book that does an in depth investigation of how truly wealthy people got that way called the Millionaire Next Door. You might not like what you read though...
 
The point is, if you're smart enough to make it through the process of becoming a doctor, you could have applied your skills in fields that are more rewarding to those who are that smart and skilled, i.e. business.

How do you make that much in business? Couple of different ways without "making it big" or coming up with the next "Google" discovery. I-Bankers get paid well over $100,000 if bonuses are included THEIR FIRST YEAR out of school and literally work over 100 hours per week. This gets up around $200,000 shortly (1-2 years) thereafter. Then you get an easy-in into a top 10 MBA program after 2-3 years of I-banking, come out and rejoin Goldman and make ~$500,000. Do the math including debt and timeline and opportunity cost, and I-banking is at least ONE field that can make you significantly more money than medicine.

There are other fields I'm sure, but I investigated i-banking before medicine and turned it down to do what I felt I'd enjoy more and derive more satisfaction out of. Medicine does not reward smarts, skills, and hard work in the form of money as much as other fields do.

My friend also in the field of finance, not i-banking, made at least 120k right out of college, but she definitely put in the hours, as in coming home after midnight and randomly working weekends. No pain, no gain.
 
My friend also in the field of finance, not i-banking, made at least 120k right out of college, but she definitely put in the hours, as in coming home after midnight and randomly working weekends. No pain, no gain.
Crazy hours, for sure. A friend of mine at one of the smaller banks who worked 100+ hours/week and didn't make as much as she would have at one of the bulge bracket firms crunched the numbers to discover that even though she gets paid like $90,000, her hourly pay was essentially that of a McDonald's employee, lol
 
For every guy in "business" that makes $200k that a doctor could make on average, there's 50 guys in "business" that make $50k. For every lawyer that makes $150k in corporate law, there's 50 guys that make $60k as a public defendant. For every genius engineer that patents some amazing design, there's 50 engineers that cap out at $100k by the time they're 35.

There are no careers that on average pay as well as medicine. Yeah, there's outliers in every field. But guess what? You aren't one of them. I'm sick and tired of hearing that pre-meds can succeed in anything just because they have a 3.5 GPA. Anyone with functioning brain and a half-ass work ethic can do that.
 
The point is, if you're smart enough to make it through the process of becoming a doctor, you could have applied your skills in fields that are more rewarding to those who are that smart and skilled, i.e. business.

How do you make that much in business? Couple of different ways without "making it big" or coming up with the next "Google" discovery. I-Bankers get paid well over $100,000 if bonuses are included THEIR FIRST YEAR out of school and literally work over 100 hours per week. This gets up around $200,000 shortly (1-2 years) thereafter. Then you get an easy-in into a top 10 MBA program after 2-3 years of I-banking, come out and rejoin Goldman and make ~$500,000. Do the math including debt and timeline and opportunity cost, and I-banking is at least ONE field that can make you significantly more money than medicine.

There are other fields I'm sure, but I investigated i-banking before medicine and turned it down to do what I felt I'd enjoy more and derive more satisfaction out of. Medicine does not reward smarts, skills, and hard work in the form of money as much as other fields do.
Nope. Investment banking requires more than just smarts/hard work. You need a certain personality to make it big in business. You need to be persuasive and able to convince people. Why do you assume that everyone can do this?

It's much easier for me to sit and study science or math all day and get straight A's.

If I were to go into investment banking, I'd be nothing more than average. I would therefore make around 100K at the very best.

If I'm an average or even crappy doctor, I earn an income that puts me in the top 5% of the US population.

I couldn't say that about any other field. The point is that most of the "you can make a lot more money if you chose something other than medicine" people assume that I have what it takes to be an elite businessman. I do not.
 
Nope. Investment banking requires more than just smarts/hard work. You need a certain personality to make it big in business. You need to be persuasive and able to convince people. Why do you assume that everyone can do this?

It's much easier for me to sit and study science or math all day and get straight A's.

If I were to go into investment banking, I'd be nothing more than average. I would therefore make around 100K at the very best.

If I'm an average or even crappy doctor, I earn an income that puts me in the top 5% of the US population.

I couldn't say that about any other field. The point is that most of the "you can make a lot more money if you chose something other than medicine" people assume that I have what it takes to be an elite businessman. I do not.

Oh, believe me, there is much more of a certain personality required to become a doctor than just studying math and science all day and getting As.
 
How do you make that much in business? Couple of different ways without "making it big" or coming up with the next "Google" discovery. I-Bankers get paid well over $100,000 if bonuses are included THEIR FIRST YEAR out of school and literally work over 100 hours per week. This gets up around $200,000 shortly (1-2 years) thereafter. Then you get an easy-in into a top 10 MBA program after 2-3 years of I-banking, come out and rejoin Goldman and make ~$500,000. Do the math including debt and timeline and opportunity cost, and I-banking is at least ONE field that can make you significantly more money than medicine.

Slogging through pre-med coursework with a 3.5 does not mean you can play investment banker. Investment banking is unattainable unless you're from a target school, or an all-star 4.0 from a non-target. You will likely never get into Goldman or any other prestigious bank with anything less than an Ivy league degree. Certain banks recruit exclusively from a single Ivy. Analysts don't make $100k their first year, it's closer to $80-90k after bonuses / 100 hours a week with no vacation / NYC living expenses. After 2 or 3 years, analysts have the option of going to business school. Many quit because they realize how much investment banking sucks. After business school, analysts come back as associates and make ~$200k after bonuses. Associates will not get into Goldman unless they go to a top tier business school (HBS/Columbia/NYU/etc) and have great connections. The only ones pulling down $500k in IBD are managing directors.
 
430K and 500K is pretty high for an MD and outrageously high for a dentist. I'm not saying I don't believe you, but the average dentist doesn't make anywhere near that much. 125-130K is probably the median dentist salary. Every field will have outliers.

I'm talking about the median though. If you weren't going to make it big and were simply average in your field, what could you do to make more than 200K/year? Nothing.

That's the thing, 90% of dentists aren't "salaried," they work as associates and earn a % of production or own their own practice, in which case they can make much, much more. Is 500K average? No, but it's pretty well established that private practice dentists on average make more than PCP docs. This becomes especially true when you consider the $/hour. My personal dentist I shadowed said she didn't know one dentist that worked over 40 hours a week (not that that doesn't happen, just her experience, and mine as well).
 
not to mention IB comes with considerably less job security. right now capital markets activity is in vogue again, but who had the guts to go into business a year ago when we were facing financial Armageddon?
 
I would never go into IBanking.
 
not to mention IB comes with considerably less job security. right now capital markets activity is in vogue again, but who had the guts to go into business a year ago when we were facing financial Armageddon?
...all also great reasons to go into medicine lol
 
If you really want money (and you're smart) - go to a good (top 15) law school. You can start getting 6 figures by age 25, and by age 30 you'll be making as much money as a doctor without nearly as much debt. Partners at a good law firm make > $200k.
I'm guessing you missed that recent article in the New York Time about law schools, debt and the chances of making it big. Google it.

I love when premeds come in here and run their mouth about other professions when really they (you) haven't got the slightest clue. :laugh:
 
I'm guessing you missed that recent article in the New York Time about law schools, debt and the chances of making it big. Google it.

I love when premeds come in here and run their mouth about other professions when really they (you) haven't got the slightest clue. :laugh:

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Here's the average salary for the class of 2008. The majority are lawyers make peanuts, unless they're lucky enough to fall into that ~$160k corporate law range.

http://www.elsblog.org/the_empirica...modal-distribution-for-the-class-of-2008.html
 
I'm guessing you missed that recent article in the New York Time about law schools, debt and the chances of making it big. Google it.

I love when premeds come in here and run their mouth about other professions when really they (you) haven't got the slightest clue. :laugh:
Thank you, enlightened one!
 
One of my pet peeves are presumptuous pre-med and med students who act like medical students would be at the top of any other field. Just because you're a med student doesn't mean you'd land a sweet job at a hedge fund or a prestigious law firm. Please...
 
I'm guessing you missed that recent article in the New York Time about law schools, debt and the chances of making it big. Google it.

I love when premeds come in here and run their mouth about other professions when really they (you) haven't got the slightest clue. :laugh:
Everyone knows that the minute you declare yourself a pre-ed you are endowed with absolute knowledge.
 
Don't have any friends whose parents are pediatricians?🙂

I drive a decade old Subaru and love it and have no plans on getting rid of it in the next 10 years or so. Our house is fully paid off and appraised at WAAAAY less than a million dollars or even half of that. I do have a thing for new Macintosh computers though and am waiting to buy Diablo 3.

YMMV. We now return to the usual daily thread about whether doctoring or financing is a better way to get rich.

YEAA diablo 3!
 
Nope. Investment banking requires more than just smarts/hard work. You need a certain personality to make it big in business. You need to be persuasive and able to convince people. Why do you assume that everyone can do this?

Yeah, it requires a unique level of agressiveness I certainly do not possess.
 
I'm guessing you missed that recent article in the New York Time about law schools, debt and the chances of making it big. Google it.

I love when premeds come in here and run their mouth about other professions when really they (you) haven't got the slightest clue. :laugh:


Haha. I actually posted that article on SDN a little while back. The grass is greener on the other side right? Not......:laugh:

SDN thread:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=660409

NYT article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/26/business/26lawyers.html?_r=2&ref=us
 
Can someone explain to me what other fields give you anything close to $200,000-$500,000 per year?

My friends are telling me that if money is what you are interested in, go into engineering, dentistry, pharmacy or business.

I'm sure engineering is better at first because you're at a solid $70,000+ after 4 years, but who honestly believes 70K > 200-500K?

Once again with dentistry, how do people come to the conclusion that 110-130K is > 200-500K?

And business is different because it requires a different set of skills. For example, I assume that most doctors could have become engineers or dentists or pharmacists because they seem to excel in math/science.

I laugh when people tell me I should have gone into business if I wanted money. I took a basic business class in high school and finished dead last in net profits for one of the projects. Bottom line is that I suck at business and wouldn't be able to make it big at all. And if I don't make it big in business (unlike in medicine) I do not make that much money at all.

So how exactly can I make more money in a field other than medicine?

I know a Mexican contractor without high school education who netted 500K last year laying down sheetrock.
 
This is the same guy who posted the "WashU vs. Harvard vs. Hopkins" thread and the "Advice on taking Adderall for the MCAT" threads. :troll:
 
Don't have any friends whose parents are pediatricians?🙂

I drive a decade old Subaru and love it and have no plans on getting rid of it in the next 10 years or so. Our house is fully paid off and appraised at WAAAAY less than a million dollars or even half of that. I do have a thing for new Macintosh computers though and am waiting to buy Diablo 3.

YMMV. We now return to the usual daily thread about whether doctoring or financing is a better way to get rich.

what class are you gonna pick? I'm guessing the healing monk?? I am waiting for that game also.
 
I know a Mexican contractor without high school education who netted 500K last year laying down sheetrock.

Yeh and you also had a nurse "friend" make $500k supervising an AIDS clinic...🙄
 
I'm guessing you missed that recent article in the New York Time about law schools, debt and the chances of making it big. Google it.

I love when premeds come in here and run their mouth about other professions when really they (you) haven't got the slightest clue. :laugh:

That's why I included the bit about going to a top 15 law school Ms. Smartass. And good job referencing an article about the economic downturn's effects on lawyers - we all know that recessions are permanent, right? Please take an economics class before trying to use articles about the economy to argue about how bad going into law is, especially to a freaking economics major such as myself. 😉

Obviously, someone as intelligent as you (which is not at all) would never make it in law. Stick with medicine - at least you'll have a job if you somehow make it through. Which is just the saddest thing ever because you're the epitome of a bad doctor - arrogant, pretentious, and a completely brainless (lol good luck even getting married). Ehh, you'll probably just fake your way through interviews though. Hope you don't kill too many people in your life.

Oh, and here are some median starting salary statistics (for those who chose to go into the private sector):

Northwestern - $160k
http://www.law.northwestern.edu/career/statistics/

UCLA - $160k
http://www.law.ucla.edu/home/index.asp?page=1307

USC - $160k
http://lawweb.usc.edu/why/facts/

NYU - $153k
http://www.law.nyu.edu/careerservices/employmentstatistics/jobtype/index.htm

Stanford - $160k
http://www.law.stanford.edu/experience/careers/ocs/prospective/statistics/
 
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That's why I included the bit about going to a top 15 law school Ms. Smartass. And good job referencing an article about the economic downturn's effects on lawyers - we all know that recessions are permanent, right? Please take an economics class before trying to use articles about the economy to argue about how bad going into law is, especially to a freaking economics major such as myself. 😉

Obviously, someone as intelligent as you (which is not at all) would never make it in law. Stick with medicine - at least you'll have a job if you somehow make it through. Which is just the saddest thing ever because you're the epitome of a bad doctor - arrogant, pretentious, and a complete *****. Ehh, you'll probably just fake your way through interviews though. Hope you don't kill too many people in your life.
This is getting a little ridiculous... especially considering the OPs thread starting history and the personal attacks. Lock it up? Anyone?
 

:laugh: back at you.

He runs a business, employing 6 other guys. It's quite easy to net 500K on a good year if you know how to run a business.



I also know a dog-sitter who made 200K two years ago.

You could never imagine, living in your sheltered bubble, what a resourceful and hard-working human is capable in this (still) great country of ours.

Here is a recent article from popular press:

http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/career-articles-newest_professions_growing_salaries-992

Anesthesiologist assistants work under the direction of a licensed and qualified anesthesiologist in hospitals. They perform preoperative tasks, support therapy, recovery room care, and intensive care support. They do well money-wise: around $90,000 to start and more than double that with 10 years of experience, according to the American Medical Association.

I hope you enjoy 10 years of medical education, knowing that there is a good chance you will be making less than somebody without college education.
 
:laugh: back at you.

He runs a business, employing 6 other guys. It's quite easy to net 500K on a good year if you know how to run a business.



I also know a dog-sitter who made 200K two years ago.

You could never imagine, living in your sheltered bubble, what a resourceful and hard-working human is capable in this (still) great country of ours.

Here is a recent article from popular press:

http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/career-articles-newest_professions_growing_salaries-992

Anesthesiologist assistants work under the direction of a licensed and qualified anesthesiologist in hospitals. They perform preoperative tasks, support therapy, recovery room care, and intensive care support. They do well money-wise: around $90,000 to start and more than double that with 10 years of experience, according to the American Medical Association.

I hope you enjoy 10 years of medical education, knowing that there is a good chance you will be making less than somebody without college education.

Do you think getting accepted to a medical school means you're capable of making $200k dog-sitting or $500k hanging sheetrock? The average construction worker is lucky to break $40k. If you hate medicine and you're so smart and hard working, why don't you leave it all?
 
what class are you gonna pick? I'm guessing the healing monk?? I am waiting for that game also.

Not sure yet. It's been a while since I played the earlier DIABLO versions. The other problem is that I use a MacAir so I'll need to lug along the external drive. Of course, this assumes that the endlessly sloooow moving Blizzard releases the darn game before I die of really old age.🙄
 
Dentist make a lot more money per hour worked. They work 35 hours a week and pull a greater income than primary care docs..... who definitely work more than 35 hours a week.
 
So how exactly can I make more money in a field other than medicine?

To actually answer your question:

1. Partner at major Hedge Fund/PE Shop
2. Associate level or higher in investment banking or trading
3. Partner at "Big Law" corporate law firm
4. Very successful Entrepreneur
5. C-Level (CEO, CFO, etc.) at Fortune 100 Company

Good luck!
 
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To actually answer your question:

1. Partner at major Hedge Fund/PE Shop
2. Associate level or higher in investment banking or trading
3. Partner at "Big Law" corporate law firm
4. Very successful Entrepreneur
5. C-Level (CEO, CFO, etc.) at Fortune 100 Company

Good luck!

ie. successful business people.

As for the unsuccessful ones....
 
Join a drug trafficking cartel, either Colombian or Mexican...Make sure you do well in Chem and Ochem and decent on your MCAT. Being Bilingual also helps..
 
Maybe it's just me, but I just can't see why someone would choose a job that makes them rich over the job that they'd be happier with, and still allows them to live comfortably and struggle-free. Your occupation is such a big part of your life. If you choose a job simply for the money, you could be miserable your whole life and regret it forever.
Besides, no one needs a private helicopter or a bugatti veyron to feel complete.
 
Do you think getting accepted to a medical school means you're capable of making $200k dog-sitting or $500k hanging sheetrock? The average construction worker is lucky to break $40k. If you hate medicine and you're so smart and hard working, why don't you leave it all?

I'm not talking average.

I gave you two examples of actual living breathing people whom I know, who are running successful businesses, and making more than your run-of-the-mill doc. Draw your own conclusions.

I am staying in medicine for the same reason: because I am way better than average.
 
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