What happens if you hit the patient back?

[RustedFox]

I initially went in to try and defuse the situation. But when the fight started, I was the closest one with the physical ability to take him down. I'm 6'2", 250 lbs and train Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu to have the skill to safely use takedowns, armbars, etc. as needed. "Security" was a joke, there was no way to even call them when it went down. Their response would have been "Stop, or ill say stop again. Sir, please stop assaulting the staff." If he had tried to leave, I would have gladly let him go.

This was not the first time in my tenure there I had to go "hands-on" with a violent psych patient. We'd had staff assaulted, one tried to steal out of another patient's room, even had one barge in to the resuscitation of a critically ill 5 year old. I dutifully reported every one of them up the chain, even safety reported it, and still no change in security, policy, extra duty PD, nothing. Residents even reported it on their ACGME surveys.

Admin don care.
They never feel the consequences of their decisions.

Time to get in the pit, admins.

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[wholeheartedly]

I initially went in to try and defuse the situation. But when the fight started, I was the closest one with the physical ability to take him down. I'm 6'2", 250 lbs and train Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu to have the skill to safely use takedowns, armbars, etc. as needed. "Security" was a joke, there was no way to even call them when it went down. Their response would have been "Stop, or ill say stop again. Sir, please stop assaulting the staff." If he had tried to leave, I would have gladly let him go.

This was not the first time in my tenure there I had to go "hands-on" with a violent psych patient. We'd had staff assaulted, one tried to steal out of another patient's room, even had one barge in to the resuscitation of a critically ill 5 year old. I dutifully reported every one of them up the chain, even safety reported it, and still no change in security, policy, extra duty PD, nothing. Residents even reported it on their ACGME surveys.

News media currently seems very anti violence against healthcare workers… I’d be tempted … f admins

 

[greatnt249]

News media currently seems very anti violence against healthcare workers… I’d be tempted … f admins

They were calling us "healthcare heroes" at one point as well.

 

[wholeheartedly]

They were calling us "healthcare heroes" at one point as well.

true, but he was protecting nurses (among others), that will always be popular publicly

 

[greatnt249]

true, but he was protecting nurses (among others), that will always be popular publicly

It will be popular if he's even allowed to disclose those kinds of details to the media.

 

[wholeheartedly]

It will be popular if he's even allowed to disclose those kinds of details to the media.

do note, i said i‘d be “tempted”

 

[wareagle726]

My standpoint with filing a report has always been that if someone truly has a mental illness I'll never report that. It's not their fault they are paranoid and think staff is trying to take their magical beans that their 600yo grandmother gave them. However, if you get drunk at a party and swing at me you're getting reported. Just like if you walked into a restaurant and swung at a patron or staff the cops would be called on you and you would be arrested. I would hope I have at least the same importance in society as the people at a restaurant but sometimes it doesn't seem that way.

 

[HoosierdaddyO]

This whole conversation brings up another whole point of view. There are these so called “Patients bill of rights”, yata yata yata. But what the he’ll about having some “Physician bill of rights”?? Who is protecting us, who is saving us from patients who make false complaints bc they didn’t get the drugs they wanted, who’s protecting the doctor when they are being good stewards of medicine even if it doesn’t correlate to the patient getting what they want!!! Or when the patient gets threatening or even violent. Why is the patient always right or believed… I am starting to witness this sadly more and more and more as society becomes less and less and less!!

 

[RustedFox]

This whole conversation brings up another whole point of view. There are these so called “Patients bill of rights”, yata yata yata. But what the he’ll about having some “Physician bill of rights”?? Who is protecting us, who is saving us from patients who make false complaints bc they didn’t get the drugs they wanted, who’s protecting the doctor when they are being good stewards of medicine even if it doesn’t correlate to the patient getting what they want!!! Or when the patient gets threatening or even violent. Why is the patient always right or believed… I am starting to witness this sadly more and more and more as society becomes less and less and less!!

Had one file a police report alleging me of assault last year because she didn't get the narcs she wanted.
Thank God she was in a hall bed, with a camera on her.
Complete fabrication.
Still, had to give a statement and missed shifts until I could go before the "Patient Care and Safety Committee" to tell them what the police already saw on video.

Should charge her with making a false police statement; but nothing would happen because "mental illness" excuses her behavior.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Had one file a police report alleging me of assault last year because she didn't get the narcs she wanted.
Thank God she was in a hall bed, with a camera on her.
Complete fabrication.
Still, had to give a statement and missed shifts until I could go before the "Patient Care and Safety Committee" to tell them what the police already saw on video.

Should charge her with making a false police statement; but nothing would happen because "mental illness" excuses her behavior.

And I'm sure you weren't paid for those shifts you missed

 

[RustedFox]

And I'm sure you weren't paid for those shifts you missed

Nope.
Should sue for lost wages, but I'll never recover anything because homegirl (of course) doesn't work and spends her days going from ER to ER in search of (whatever).

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Nope.
Should sue for lost wages, but I'll never recover anything because homegirl (of course) doesn't work and spends her days going from ER to ER in search of (whatever).

Honestly your job should have paid you. Police get pain admin leave whenever there is an investigation. If situations like yours, we should as well - especially if found innocent.

I know this is a pipe dream, but still.

 

[RustedFox]

Honestly your job should have paid you. Police get pain admin leave whenever there is an investigation. If situations like yours, we should as well - especially if found innocent.

I know this is a pipe dream, but still.

If I were an *employee*, then yes.
But the Galactic Empire classifies us as "independent contractors", so they DGAF. Completely expendable.

Ready for this?
I got plonked for Jury Duty last week. Federal stuff. Had to drive to The City for it.
I went to the website for a deferment or excusal, only to see red text saying: "NOPE. NOT THIS ONE. GET IN THE CAR TOMORROW."
Judge asked me: "Is there any reason why you cannot serve if selected?"

I replied: "I'm a nightshift ER doc. I'm generally asleep right now (8am). If I had worked overnight last night, I would have had to drive 2h 40m to be here, which would have been unsafe. I have shifts upcoming. It is my responsibility to arrange for a replacement. There are no replacements."

Judge asserts: "Your employer needs to be accommodating. This is a federal matter."

I reply: "I have no employer, as Corporate Medicine has me classified as an independent contractor. If I don't show up, I had better be in the hospital, or my "services are no longer needed" and I will be terminated without cause. Perhaps labor laws need to protect us, as I would be a perfect juror for this case given my knowledge and background."

Silence from the bench.
I was not selected.

 

[Goro]

If I were an *employee*, then yes.
But the Galactic Empire classifies us as "independent contractors", so they DGAF. Completely expendable.

Ready for this?
I got plonked for Jury Duty last week. Federal stuff. Had to drive to The City for it.
I went to the website for a deferment or excusal, only to see red text saying: "NOPE. NOT THIS ONE. GET IN THE CAR TOMORROW."
Judge asked me: "Is there any reason why you cannot serve if selected?"

I replied: "I'm a nightshift ER doc. I'm generally asleep right now (8am). If I had worked overnight last night, I would have had to drive 2h 40m to be here, which would have been unsafe. I have shifts upcoming. It is my responsibility to arrange for a replacement. There are no replacements."

Judge asserts: "Your employer needs to be accommodating. This is a federal matter."

I reply: "I have no employer, as Corporate Medicine has me classified as an independent contractor. If I don't show up, I had better be in the hospital, or my "services are no longer needed" and I will be terminated without cause. Perhaps labor laws need to protect us, as I would be a perfect juror for this case given my knowledge and background."

Silence from the bench.
I was not selected.

ER docs are considered "independent contractors "????

Holy ****! I need to read these threads more often!

Wasn't there a lawsuit against Uber where the plaintiffs claimed that they were not independent contractors, but actually employees? And the plaintiffs one?

If so, there's a solution to the problem.

PS, your employer is evil. Full stop

 

[Goro]

I once read a book buy an emergency room doc who trained as an intern in the 1950s. He wrote that if a belligerent drunk started acting out and took swings at him, he would just get two muscular orderlies to beat the crap out of the patient.

Then he would treat the patient.

 

[RustedFox]

ER docs are considered "independent contractors "????

Holy ****! I need to read these threads more often!

Wasn't there a lawsuit against Uber where the plaintiffs claimed that they were not independent contractors, but actually employees? And the plaintiffs one?

If so, there's a solution to the problem.

PS, your employer is evil. Full stop

Uhm. Bro?
The IC trap.
We all know it.

 

[Goro]

Uhm. Bro?
The IC trap.
We all know it.

My apologies for my ignorance, Fox, I just learned about this IC horror from this thread.

My notion was that if it worked for Uber drivers, surely it can work for you?

 

[RustedFox]

My apologies for my ignorance, Fox, I just learned about this IC horror from this thread.

My notion was that if it worked for Uber drivers, surely it can work for you?

For real?
Wait. If memory serves, you're... a pharmacist or something closely related to, but not EM? Maybe? I dunno, I'm tired.

I would just be tossed aside with no legal recourse. They'd drown me in lawyerwork until I was bankrupt.

 

[Apollyon]

My apologies for my ignorance, Fox, I just learned about this IC horror from this thread.

My notion was that if it worked for Uber drivers, surely it can work for you?

It's a scam that has to be re-argued each time. TeamHell, USucks, all the CMGs do it.

 

[Goro]

For real?
Wait. If memory serves, you're... a pharmacist or something closely related to, but not EM? Maybe? I dunno, I'm tired.

I would just be tossed aside with no legal recourse. They'd drown me in lawyerwork until I was bankrupt.

This is the case that I was thinking of. Class action lawsuit.

Uber Signs $8.4 Million Settlement Over Driver Misclassification

Uber recently agreed to pay $8.4 million to settle a class-action lawsuit with California drivers who claimed they were misclassified as independent contractors, rather than employees.

www.shrm.org

 

[RustedFox]

This is the case that I was thinking of. Class action lawsuit.

Uber Signs $8.4 Million Settlement Over Driver Misclassification

Uber recently agreed to pay $8.4 million to settle a class-action lawsuit with California drivers who claimed they were misclassified as independent contractors, rather than employees.

www.shrm.org

Although I love that you're looking out for me, amigo; one man does not a class action make. I would be snuffed out like a candle.

 

[Goro]

Although I love that you're looking out for me, amigo; one man does not a class action make. I would be snuffed out like a candle.

Not just you, Fox! All of your long suffering peers!