What happens when you "know someone on the admissions committee"

[Dr. Stalker]

I'm very curious to know about nepotism and personal suggestions within the admissions committee. I'd like to propose a few hypothetical situations, hoping some adcoms and medical students involved in admissions committees can offer insight.

Assumptions:
1. The university is a mid-tier US Allopathic school.
2. The father of the student applying is a physician or professor at the medical school, and has been actively involved in admissions for 10+ years now.

Situation 1: Student has numbers a tiny bit below 10th percentile with respect to MCAT and GPA, but otherwise a decent application (all EC bases covered, etc.).

Situation 2: Student has numbers at the 10th percentile with respect to MCAT and GPA, and an otherwise decent application (all EC bases covered, etc.)

Situation 3: Student has numbers at the school's median with respect to MCAT and GPA, and an otherwise decent application (all EC bases covered, etc.)

Situation 4: Same as situation 1, but the assumption is NOT THE PARENT, but instead a faculty member that highly recommends the student privately tot he dean of admissions.

Situation 5: Same as situation 2, but the assumption is NOT THE PARENT, but instead a faculty member that highly recommends to the student privately to the dean of admissions.

I figure at any given medical school, if the class size is 130, at least 30 students are "privately recommended to the dean of the admission" by a parent involved in admissions or faculty member. However, do medical schools just assume that in every cycle, about 30 of the 130 spots will be "given to faculty member children/close connections" or what exactly happens?

Thanks!

P.S.: This is really out of curiosity, i'm not trying to "game the system" and find out what happens during private admissions committee meetings - if this thread breaks the ToS, I apologize in advance, could a mod just shut it down? Thanks .

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[gyngyn]

The LCME is quite clear on conflicts of interest in admissions.
If the committee doesn't have a clear and enforceable policy, there will be trouble (for the school, not the applicant).

 

[Dr. Stalker]

The LCME is quite clear on conflicts of interest in admissions.
If the committee doesn't have a clear and enforceable policy, there will be trouble (for the school, not the applicant).

That makes sense. I figure that its sometimes these parents have children qualified for that particular medical school and they just end up there. It creates an illusion the school favored them, when in reality the student earned her/his way in.

 

[gyngyn]

That makes sense. I figure that its sometimes these parents have children qualified for that particular medical school and they just end up there. It creates an illusion the school favored them, when in reality the student earned her/his way in.

It is not a conflict to interview an otherwise good candidate whose parent or mentor works at the school.
It is also a common practice to offer "courtesy interviews" even when they are not strong applicants.

 

[deev04]

this is based only on the Adcom setup I'm familiar with, but it really depends on a few factors.

1. The student. If the student is actually competitive that makes things easier and having an Adcom connection can help pull a middle of the pack applicant through the process. If the Adcom connection is the only reason someone gets an interview (courtesy interview), then it really really depends on how subpar the applicant is and how high up this connection is. Legacy or parent on faculty type connections might be a small plus or get you a second look, but your application quality will be the deciding factor.
2. The Adcom connection. I'll bet Adcom structure varies a good deal by school, but the one I'm familiar with has smaller committees/groups that do a bulk of the work/reviewing. Many of the people involved at this level are more junior faculty members or clinical instructors (this is a hard job, with a lot of work), so it's not as though every Adcom is a heavyweight with a direct line to the dean. The main players and more senior Adcom members tend to have more pull and if your "in" is with them, that will probably hold more weight.

It's the people with connections to Deans/Donors that tend to more of an "in." Half the people applying to med school have a physician parent, many with an academic appointment. This usually does quite little.

 

[Dr. Stalker]

@gyngyn @deev04 why do courtesyinterviews even exist? If a student is super borderline with a really high chance of not being admitted, why lead them on lol and waste the resources of a medical school interviewing a serious candidate.

 

[OchemOficionado]

I know a Dean of Admissions and I always thought that would give me an edge when I apply next month, but, nope. I don't think Deans even make decisions unless the committee is tied or something.

 

[deev04]

@gyngyn @deev04 why do courtesyinterviews even exist? If a student is super borderline with a really high chance of not being admitted, why lead them on lol and waste the resources of a medical school interviewing a serious candidate.

As a courtesy to the faculty member/employee. Their kid might not be up to scratch, but the school still values the faculty member and wants to at least keep them (relatively) happy.

edit: agree leading them on can be harsh, but snubbing can be interpreted as too harsh ("thanks for nothing") by faculty members

 

[deev04]

I know a Dean of Admissions and I always thought that would give me an edge when I apply next month, but, nope. I don't think Deans even make decisions unless the committee is tied or something.

Deans likely know many applicants every year. Medicine is a small world and many people who go into medicine come from medical families. The rising popularity of gap years presents additional opportunities for connections. But, there is a big difference between knowing a Dean and being the daughter/nephew/granddaughter of a Dean.

 

[OchemOficionado]

Deans likely know many applicants every year. Medicine is a small world and many people who go into medicine come from medical families. The rising popularity of gap years presents additional opportunities for connections. But, there is a big difference between knowing a Dean and being the daughter/nephew/granddaughter of a Dean.

Ok.

 

[gyngyn]

@gyngyn @deev04 why do courtesyinterviews even exist? If a student is super borderline with a really high chance of not being admitted, why lead them on lol and waste the resources of a medical school interviewing a serious candidate.

It is very hard to discontinue this practice as faculty have come to believe it is a perquisite of their position. It can be painful and cruel.

 

[Goro]

You figured wrong. For 1 and 2 and maybe 3, the candidate is not qualified, s/he will get a polite interview, followed by a polite spot on the wait list, latter followed by a very polite rejection.
For 4 and 5, the recommendation will have little effect, the candidate

BTW, I have personally heard our wily old Admissions dean tell these very same things to Faculty members who try to help candidates they know.

I'm very curious to know about nepotism and personal suggestions within the admissions committee. I'd like to propose a few hypothetical situations, hoping some adcoms and medical students involved in admissions committees can offer insight.

Assumptions:
1. The university is a mid-tier US Allopathic school.
2. The father of the student applying is a physician or professor at the medical school, and has been actively involved in admissions for 10+ years now.

Situation 1: Student has numbers a tiny bit below 10th percentile with respect to MCAT and GPA, but otherwise a decent application (all EC bases covered, etc.).

Situation 2: Student has numbers at the 10th percentile with respect to MCAT and GPA, and an otherwise decent application (all EC bases covered, etc.)

Situation 3: Student has numbers at the school's median with respect to MCAT and GPA, and an otherwise decent application (all EC bases covered, etc.)

Situation 4: Same as situation 1, but the assumption is NOT THE PARENT, but instead a faculty member that highly recommends the student privately tot he dean of admissions.

Situation 5: Same as situation 2, but the assumption is NOT THE PARENT, but instead a faculty member that highly recommends to the student privately to the dean of admissions.

I figure at any given medical school, if the class size is 130, at least 30 students are "privately recommended to the dean of the admission" by a parent involved in admissions or faculty member. However, do medical schools just assume that in every cycle, about 30 of the 130 spots will be "given to faculty member children/close connections" or what exactly happens?

Thanks!

P.S.: This is really out of curiosity, i'm not trying to "game the system" and find out what happens during private admissions committee meetings - if this thread breaks the ToS, I apologize in advance, could a mod just shut it down? Thanks .

 

[Goro]

So would you say that a strong connection to an admissions dean is helpful or no?

It can't hurt.

 

[LizzyM]

I'm very curious to know about nepotism and personal suggestions within the admissions committee. I'd like to propose a few hypothetical situations, hoping some adcoms and medical students involved in admissions committees can offer insight.

Assumptions:
1. The university is a mid-tier US Allopathic school.
2. The father of the student applying is a physician or professor at the medical school, and has been actively involved in admissions for 10+ years now.

Situation 1: Student has numbers a tiny bit below 10th percentile with respect to MCAT and GPA, but otherwise a decent application (all EC bases covered, etc.).

Situation 2: Student has numbers at the 10th percentile with respect to MCAT and GPA, and an otherwise decent application (all EC bases covered, etc.)

Situation 3: Student has numbers at the school's median with respect to MCAT and GPA, and an otherwise decent application (all EC bases covered, etc.)

Situation 4: Same as situation 1, but the assumption is NOT THE PARENT, but instead a faculty member that highly recommends the student privately tot he dean of admissions.

Situation 5: Same as situation 2, but the assumption is NOT THE PARENT, but instead a faculty member that highly recommends to the student privately to the dean of admissions.

I figure at any given medical school, if the class size is 130, at least 30 students are "privately recommended to the dean of the admission" by a parent involved in admissions or faculty member. However, do medical schools just assume that in every cycle, about 30 of the 130 spots will be "given to faculty member children/close connections" or what exactly happens?

Thanks!

P.S.: This is really out of curiosity, i'm not trying to "game the system" and find out what happens during private admissions committee meetings - if this thread breaks the ToS, I apologize in advance, could a mod just shut it down? Thanks .

In Situations 1, 2 and 3, the applicant will likely get an interview and then it will be up to the adcom, minus the parent-member, to decide if the applicant is worthy of admission without regard to parentage. Most of these, particularly those in situation 1 and 2, are waitlisted.


For situation 4 and 5, applicant is unlikely to get an interview. Don't ask me how I know.

 

[Goro]

For situation 4 and 5, applicant is unlikely to get an interview. Don't ask me how I know.

You too, eh?

 

[mw18]

Very famous and influential people have their relatives denied. As far as nepotism goes, I think the advantages of coming from a family of physicians or with ties is probably illustrated by other aspects of the application.