What have I got myself into...

[Dr. Breyean]

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So I'm one of those people that decides at the last minute that they want to go to medical school. I had originally intended to simply go to graduate school, but then I really became interested in medical research so I thought it would be great to get into an M.D./Ph.D. program. I'm taking the MCAT for the first time in a week and I'm not feeling real good about it. I've only had about three weeks to study and prepare and during that time I've been working 40 hours a week. I'm averaging about 28 or 29 on the few practice tests I've taken, but I think I can probably get up to 30 on the real thing. However, I know if I had more time to study I could do significantly better, but there just wasn't enough time.

My dream right now would be to get into an MSTP program, but I really don't think I have what it takes to get in as of now...
I have around a 3.75 GPA.
I have absolutely no clinical experience.
I've been working in a molecular biology lab for two years doing research which should yield atleast two publications by the time I graduate.
I'll probably get around a 30 on the MCAT.

I havn't even started filling out my primary application yet so I feel like I'm really behind in this whole application process.

That was all background information: Here is my question...

Should I go ahead an apply this year even though I'm so far behind and my application isn't really all that competitive?

OR

Should I just forget about applying for this year and retake the MCAT next year after I've had adequate time to study(I could probably bump it up to atleast a 35)? During that year off from school, I could be doing additional research and get some clinical experience.


I could really use some advice here becuase I'm really not sure what my best option is.


Thanks,
Brian 🙂

 

[malchik]

In addition to looking for bright people with good grades, high scores, and research experience, MSTP programs are looking for evidence of commitment. It is a long haul, and they want to invest in people who have made a thoughtful, informed decision to pursue the physician-scientist life. It appears that your grades and research experience are competitive, but that you have quite impulsively decided on MD/PhD. Aside from the goal of getting in, the greater goal is making the right decision for your future, and it seems to me that both of these goals could be addressed by taking another year to prepare. That's what I did. Just as you suggest, it not only allowed me to get into an MSTP (which would otherwise have been out of the question), but to educate myself more about clinical medicine, formulate my goals, and feel good about the decision. I'm sure it also made my essays about what I wanted to do more plausible, believable. I recommend taking the year and exploring your options.

 

[jameslynton]

Depends on whose practice tests - I say go for it. You will most likely score higher than the practice tests. If they are Kaplan they are a bit harder than the real thing. Have you done the old released MCAT tests from registration site? Those are more like what you will see on the real tests.
Just keep taking test sections for time and speed every day - stay positive - you will do fine on test day. The application thing is ok. Working in a lab is very good also. Your grades are fine. Be cool!

Best wishes on test day! And for all the rest of you out there crush the test!!!! I did it last year at this time - so I know how I felt like why am I going to stuff this pain???

 

[jameslynton]

Some people will over analyze how prepared they are for school - if you made the decision - I say it has been there in your head for awhile and you are ready. Don't wait - do it. You have already signed up done the work for several weeks getting ready for the MCAT.

Now do temper this advice with the fact that in younger days I jumped off bridges (into deep water - I am not that dumb) for fun, scuba dive and was in some extreme sports. So take it with a grain of salt. In a year you can either be in the same place or you can be heading to medical school choice is yours....

 

[hawkeey]

I think you really, really need to think about this and figure out

1) Why you want to do an MD/PhD program?
2) Why have you not acquired any clinical experience?

Perhaps you should apply to graduate school. If not, tell us why. That's what the adcoms are asking...

It's not terribly late to apply, but by applying now you are making things so much more difficult for yourself. If you want to do it, then do it now and fill out and send out that primary AMCAS by the end of this week. If you can do that, you will survive; otherwise, either apply to grad school (Harvard HST?) or wait for next year. People start working on these applications in April or earlier.

 

[lundysd]

I agree that you should gut-check your reasons for md/phd, but as far as timing you're not too late in the game yet. I applied mid-August last year and had no problems whatsoever (though the earlier the better, and I wouldn't put it off any)

 

[Dr. Breyean]

1) Why you want to do an MD/PhD program?
2) Why have you not acquired any clinical experience?

Perhaps you should apply to graduate school. If not, tell us why. That's what the adcoms are asking...

Medical school has kind of been something in the back of my mind since high school, but it was one of those things I figured I'd never be able to do with it being such a competetive field and so expensive so I never really even looked into it when it was time to go to college. Instead I decided that research was a more logical track. I have done undergraduate research now for two years and I have absolutely love it. However, the research I've been doing so far is not medically related and mainly involves the plant cell wall. I guess I realized one day that while studying the plant cell wall may be extremely fascinating, it isn't really something I could see myself doing my whole life. Mainly becuase it isn't something that can really have an impact on human lives. No matter what kind of breakthrough we make, the only people who could possibly care are a select few scientists that study the same thing.

That is what lead me to think about doing medical research. If a person makes a major breakthrough in medical research then lives are going to be changed. It may not change the world, but some person in need somewhere will be affected. That is what makes me desire to do medical research...

I don't know if that answers the question of why to get an M.D./Ph.D. rather then simply a Ph.D. though... Although I certainly believe that a person could be effective in medical reserach with only a Ph.D (or only an M.D.), I feel like having both would make them that much more effective. I can certainly investigate a disease in the lab alone with a Ph.D., but with an M.D. I can also get in the clinic and interact with the patient firsthand. If your going to be investigating a human disease, I believe you need to have training about them (medical school) and your going to want to be able to have patient contact. It seems that this cannot be accomplished with a Ph.D. alone. I could be totally wrong here, so please correct me if I am...

I first heard about these M.D./Ph.D. a little over a month ago. Before that I had no idea such a thing even existed. While it probably seems like I'm being rather impulsive, I have given this a great deal of thought before comming to a decision. This may sound dumb, but as soon as began to read about M.D./Ph.D., I just got this gut feeling and I knew deep down that this is what I needed to do.

 

[Maebea]

I am with Malchik on this one. If doing the MD-PhD is really the right thing for you, then waiting a year should not matter too much. You need to have a good rationale for both the MD and the PhD. Some programs care a lot about having medical experience, others place less importance on this; by not having any clinical experience you hurt your candidacy at those institutions that think this is an important thing. I am not saying that you have no chance of getting into a MD-PhD program, but I think that your chances will be diminished by the lack of clinical experience and the fact that your application will not be complete until the middle of the semester.

If you do apply this year, I hope you force me to eat my words by getting into the great programs. Good luck, whatever you decide to do.

 

[cadilakgrl]

I would say to definitely wait a year before applying. I was in a similar situation as you when I graduated. I had worked in a lab for a couple years during undergrad and I was thinking about applying to PhD programs, but was unsure if that's what I really wanted to do. I also hadn't heard of MD/PhD programs. So I took a couple years off, and when I found out about MD/PhD programs through an MSTP student working in my lab I decided it was a good fit for me. I think the couple of years I took off really helped solidify my decision and helped me to become a much more competitive applicant. I had 6 months to study for the MCAT, was able to get some more research publications, had stronger letters of rec from my mentors, got more clinical experience, and was able to take the time to really think about my decision. As a result I feel I am much more prepared mentally and emotionally for the long road ahead, and I have the advantage of experience and kinda knowing the highs and lows of research.

I would be wary of taking the MCAT with only a couple weeks of studying time and scoring low on practice tests. But this is your call. You could wait until April and have 6 more months to study and just lose some money.

Another question is do you have your letters lined up yet? If you haven't finished your primary and haven't spoken to your mentors yet, I would wonder if you could pull it all off in just a few months. You could ask your PI for advice about taking a year off. He/she might be able to guide you to some people who you could work for or volunteer for if you decide to take a year off.

Also you may just want some extra time to relax. Burnout is very common and I already see some bad signs of this coming on in my fellow classmates (who are only just beginning their first lab rotation!).

Just some things to think about...

 

[ClarinetGeek]

In my opinion, I say wait a year, definately. Can you apply this year and be successfully, possibly. It will be an uphill battle. However, with this concept of MD/PhD being so new, you need time to think this through. I can forsee some interviews being very difficult. So use the year to make yourself a stellar applicant. Study for the MCAT and take it in April. Use the time for more research experience, perhaps something less plant based and more "disease" based (but you certainly don't have to if you feel that you are in a good lab setting that will provide valuable experiences that you lose by switching labs). Most importantly get some clinical experience. Working on boosting your application so you can walk into an interview with confidence when they ask "why MD/PhD?", "where do you see yourself when you are all done with training?" "Why not just a Phd" etc etc.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Dr. Breyean]

For those of you who are suggesting that I wait a year and take the MCAT in April, what is your suggestion for the August MCAT that I have already registered for? In your opinion would it be better to take it and see how I do since I already paid for it and everything? How does taking the MCAT twice appear to admission committees? If the 2nd attempt is significantly better, would it show that the applicant really focused and prepared the 2nd time or would they just think I was lazy the 1st time and didn't study at all?

 

[QofQuimica]

For those of you who are suggesting that I wait a year and take the MCAT in April, what is your suggestion for the August MCAT that I have already registered for? In your opinion would it be better to take it and see how I do since I already paid for it and everything? How does taking the MCAT twice appear to admission committees? If the 2nd attempt is significantly better, would it show that the applicant really focused and prepared the 2nd time or would they just think I was lazy the 1st time and didn't study at all?

No, you should not take the MCAT just to see how you do. That score is worse than a bankruptcy; it stays on your record for life. I took the MCAT in 1996 the first time, and guess what: when I applied last year, that score got sent to all the med schools right along with my more recent score. It's not that my old score was bad, but my point is that you don't want a poor score on your record, because that will be just another strike against you. I'd like to also caution you against counting on your 30 before you take the real test. I hope you are successful and earn that 30 or even better, but it is certainly possible to score lower on the real test than you have on your practice tests, especially if you were not following strict test-day protocols while you took them. So my advice is the following:

1) Do not take the MCAT this week, unless you are convinced that a score in the high 20s/30ish is the best that you can possibly do. (It doesn't sound like it is based on your schedule and what you've said.) You're probably going to be out the $200, and that sucks, but you might as well get used to throwing money away....the whole app process is hellishly expensive.

2) You didn't mention this, but have you taken all four pre-reqs yet? If not, that is where you should start. You should not take the MCAT before you finish a year each of physics, gen chem, organic, and biology.

3) You will want to spend about 2-3 months preparing for the MCAT during a period in your life when you have enough time to devote to preparing for it properly (i.e., during a period when you can cut back on work and other oblications). Buy a set of prep books to study yourself, or take a prep course, and make sure to take several practice tests under timed conditions.

4) Start thinking about your career goals and how you will justify why you want the MD/PhD instead of just the PhD. Get involved with activities that you can point to in essays and during interviews to back yourself up. Think about whom you will ask to write your LORs.

5) Go into this whole thing like you mean it. Applying to med school isn't for the faint of heart, or the unsure of mind. MSTP applicants tend to be among the best of the best in terms of stats and ECs. If you're not ready and willing to make some sacrifices and give this your all, don't waste your time and money.

Best of luck to you. 🙂

 

[Shatterstar17]

As well as wholeheartedly agreeing with what others said about the MCAT (this thing might be as important as your GPA in college, you need to do as well as possible for you) I think it's possible you'll have some problems with your clinical experience. I shadowed a couple of doctors for brief periods, and spent 6 months abroad participating in pre-med shadowing/seminars, and I still felt way underprepared clinically (I still kind of do). Compared to traditional MD applications, MD/PhD apps don't need to be as candy striper-y, but I nevertheless received a few comments about it during the interviews.

I just think you're very underprepared for this process. Take a year off while maybe doing some clinical research down at NIH (check out their postbac IRTA program) and make sure you know for YOU whether you want this. Those grey hairs will come in faster than you think..

 

[jameslynton]

If you have not done your MCAT prep - old exams etc - Go with what Q said. That is seriously good advice.

 

[hawkeey]

Yeah, I think waiting is a good idea. This is not a race. Believe me you are going no where fast by doing an MD/PhD. If you are going to do it, then do it right and do it well.

 

[Dr. Breyean]

I just wanted to thank you all for the great replies. After debating all the isses I have to agree that taking a year off is the way to go for me right now. It will be great to take a break and really figure out if this is what I want to do before I atleast 7 more years of my life is school. I think the main issue is the fact that I have no clinical experience; I can spend the year doing that. I'm certainly going to look into the NIH ITRAs too, from what I've read it sounds like that would be a great experience. 🙂

 

[ClarinetGeek]

I just wanted to thank you all for the great replies. After debating all the isses I have to agree that taking a year off is the way to go for me right now. It will be great to take a break and really figure out if this is what I want to do before I atleast 7 more years of my life is school. I think the main issue is the fact that I have no clinical experience; I can spend the year doing that. I'm certainly going to look into the NIH ITRAs too, from what I've read it sounds like that would be a great experience. 🙂

I think you are being really smart with this decision! This shall bode well for your future. Best of luck.