What if more people accept than there are open spots?

[chillaxbro]

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So at most of the schools I interview at, they send acceptance to 300-400 people for a class size of 150~200

What if hypothetically all 400 acceptances decided to matriculate? Will they turn some people away?

 

[Icy Snow]

So at most of the schools I interview at, they send acceptance to 300-400 people for a class size of 150~200

What if hypothetically all 400 acceptances decided to matriculate? Will they turn some people away?

I may not be a genius about this but from my understanding, they accept the exact amount of students and for each one that decides otherwise, they crept someone else. I don't think they straight up accept 200 more students than their class size.

 

[sacrament]

Yeah, they will eventually send out that many acceptances, as they work through the waitlist.

 

[sazerac]

It happens. They offer some matriculants the chance to defer for a year. Sometimes a generous scholarship is thrown in to sweeten the deal. It is somewhat analogous to an overbooked airplane.

The opposite also happens. Due to late season withdrawals or orientation no-shows, medical schools sometimes use up their wait list. Then they call up rejected applicants and offer them an acceptance, even during orientation week.

 

[SOMBound13]

@icysnow. No, they don't only accept the number they need. They accept more than they need. Virtually no med school has all their accepted students actually attend....not even the highest ranking ones.

They all use history and models to estimate how many they need to accept and have on the WL in order to get the right number of matriculants. Obviously, they try to error on the low side for acceptances and then to go the WL as needed.

As mentioned above, if a SOM ended up with too many matriculants, they probably try to work something out if they end up with some extra students. If classrooms permit, they may even allow some of the extras to enroll - if there aren't too many of them.

 

[Icy Snow]

@icysnow. No, they don't only accept the number they need. They accept more than they need. Virtually no med school has all their accepted students actually attend....not even the highest ranking ones.

They all use history and models to estimate how many they need to accept and have on the WL in order to get the right number of matriculants. Obviously, they try to error on the low side for acceptances and then to go the WL as needed.

As mentioned above, if a SOM ended up with too many matriculants, they probably try to work something out if they end up with some extra students. If classrooms permit, they may even allow some of the extras to enroll - if there aren't too many of them.

I didn't mean they only accept 200 people for a class of 200. I meant they probably initially accept 200 people and waitlist some more so when those accepted do matriculate elsewhere, they have somewhere to choose from. No matter what models or estimates they make, it doesn't make sense to me to accept 400 people up front hoping that 200 will decide not to attend.

 

[BABSstudent]

So at most of the schools I interview at, they send acceptance to 300-400 people for a class size of 150~200

What if hypothetically all 400 acceptances decided to matriculate? Will they turn some people away?

Look at Penn State. Didn't they offer students two years of free tuition to defer for a year?

 

[NickNaylor]

I didn't mean they only accept 200 people for a class of 200. I meant they probably initially accept 200 people and waitlist some more so when those accepted do matriculate elsewhere, they have somewhere to choose from. No matter what models or estimates they make, it doesn't make sense to me to accept 400 people up front hoping that 200 will decide not to attend.

That's exactly what they do. Most schools have years of admissions data and model pretty accurately how many accepted students matriculate. It's pretty standard to accept 1.5-3x as many students as you plan to matriculate depending on your retention rate.

In any event, the situation the OP describes happens not infrequently. A couple of years ago Texas A&M accidentally accepted twice as many people as they intended to. Ultimately students were asked to defer and then offered scholarships and the opportunity to earn a masters during that year for free. A similar thing happened at UVA before that and students were offered scholarships to defer.

(sent from my phone)

 

[LizzyM]

Offering admission straight out to 1.5-3 times as many applicants as seats means you get your offeers out there to "the very best" with the hope that enrollment will equal available seats with the waitlist as a back-up.

Offering admission to as many applicants as there are seats and counting on the waitlist to fill any gaps will result in a less desirable class as many applicants who have to choose between a good offer and the waitlist at an equally good school will curse the school that waitlisted them and drop themselves from the waitlist. Thus, those left on the waitlist after May 15 are not as desirable as the people who populated it from day 1.

It is nerve wracking for admissions officers from March through May but isn't it nice to know that they get a taste of their own medicine after putting applicants on pins and needles for so many months.

 

[IncognitoGuy]

Look at Penn State. Didn't they offer students two years of free tuition to defer for a year?

This happened to Ohio State as well, except it was one year of tuition.

 

[Icy Snow]

Offering admission straight out to 1.5-3 times as many applicants as seats means you get your offeers out there to "the very best" with the hope that enrollment will equal available seats with the waitlist as a back-up.

Offering admission to as many applicants as there are seats and counting on the waitlist to fill any gaps will result in a less desirable class as many applicants who have to choose between a good offer and the waitlist at an equally good school will curse the school that waitlisted them and drop themselves from the waitlist. Thus, those left on the waitlist after May 15 are not as desirable as the people who populated it from day 1.

It is nerve wracking for admissions officers from March through May but isn't it nice to know that they get a taste of their own medicine after putting applicants on pins and needles for so many months.

This does make sense. It just seems like it diminishes the importance of even having a waitlist. But I guess thats where models and estimates come into play.

 

[NickNaylor]

This does make sense. It just seems like it diminishes the importance of even having a waitlist. But I guess thats where models and estimates come into play.

Lol, at most schools the waitlist is pretty unimportant. I'm not sure what you would really be expecting.

(sent from my phone)

 

[SOMBound13]

it doesn't make sense to me to accept 400 people up front hoping that 200 will decide not to attend.

But that's what they do and it does make sense. If they interview 800 for 200 seats, then they'll often accept 400 outright. They'll designate some number (maybe 150??) for the WL. Then if more than 200 of the accepted go elsewhere, they start using the WL.

 

[Icy Snow]

Lol, at most schools the waitlist is pretty unimportant. I'm not sure what you would really be expecting.

(sent from my phone)

And I though if you were waitlisted, you still have a semi-decent chance at acceptance. Guess I was completely wrong about that.

 

[SOMBound13]

It is nerve wracking for admissions officers from March through May but isn't it nice to know that they get a taste of their own medicine after putting applicants on pins and needles for so many months.

😀 😀

 

[SOMBound13]

And I though if you were waitlisted, you still have a semi-decent chance at acceptance. Guess I was completely wrong about that.

At some schools, you do. Some schools end up seating a number of students from the WL.

 

[NickNaylor]

At some schools, you do. Some schools end up seating a number of students from the WL.

Yeah, this. Some schools (most of the Ivies it seems) have gigantic waitlists that leave you with a pretty small chance of getting accepted even if they pull a good number of people off. Others utilize the waitlist extensively. It even varies from year to year; at my school a not insignificant portion of each class usually comes from the waitlist, but last year no one was accepted off of it because it wasn't necessary.

Let me put it this way: you certainly aren't doomed if you're on a waitlist, but I wouldn't be making plans with the expectation that you're going to get accepted even if you're on multiple waitlists.

(sent from my phone)

 

[sazerac]

It is nerve wracking for admissions officers from March through May but isn't it nice to know that they get a taste of their own medicine after putting applicants on pins and needles for so many months.

I confess I held on to some acceptances until the May 15th deadline, even though I knew exactly where I was matriculating. It was just my little way of sticking it to the man!

 

[Narmerguy]

That's exactly what they do. Most schools have years of admissions data and model pretty accurately how many accepted students matriculate. It's pretty standard to accept 1.5-3x as many students as you plan to matriculate depending on your retention rate.

In any event, the situation the OP describes happens not infrequently. A couple of years ago Texas A&M accidentally accepted twice as many people as they intended to. Ultimately students were asked to defer and then offered scholarships and the opportunity to earn a masters during that year for free. A similar thing happened at UVA before that and students were offered scholarships to defer.

(sent from my phone)

Which thread was it a a year or so back when some med school had over accepted and was basically giving its students the crappiest deal imaginable? I thought it was Texas A&M. There was a hilarious thread where they were coming up with new slogans for the school.

Found it:

If anyone has not heard Texas A&M is threatening to enforce mandatory deferment on some of the class of 2015. Does anyone have incite into whether they can in fact do this? thanks

Some of them:

I just checked out the Texas A&M HSC website, and it said they are currently testing out some new slogans for the school. Here's a sampling.

"Texas A&M: Training the future leaders in medicine. Next year."

"Texas A&M: Tomorrow's doctors, tomorrow."

"Texas A&M: Over-accepting students since 2010."

"Texas A&M: First we accept you. Then we threaten you."

"Texas A&M: We lost count...and our dignity."

Good times.

 

[The Beyonder]

And I though if you were waitlisted, you still have a semi-decent chance at acceptance. Guess I was completely wrong about that.

This..... I guess it's going to be a long summer....

 

[MedPR]

Offering admission straight out to 1.5-3 times as many applicants as seats means you get your offeers out there to "the very best" with the hope that enrollment will equal available seats with the waitlist as a back-up.

Offering admission to as many applicants as there are seats and counting on the waitlist to fill any gaps will result in a less desirable class as many applicants who have to choose between a good offer and the waitlist at an equally good school will curse the school that waitlisted them and drop themselves from the waitlist. Thus, those left on the waitlist after May 15 are not as desirable as the people who populated it from day 1.

It is nerve wracking for admissions officers from March through May but isn't it nice to know that they get a taste of their own medicine after putting applicants on pins and needles for so many months.

Mizzou does the latter option and they are the only school I know of that does so.

Sucks for us (applicants) and for them as you pointed out.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

 

[phunky]

This is actually a problem that game theory is used to mitigate. Lloyd Shapley won the Nobel prize in economics last year for his work on matchmaking, one of the applications being medical school admissions.

 

[darkjedi]

This is actually a problem that game theory is used to mitigate. Lloyd Shapley won the Nobel prize in economics last year for his work on matchmaking, one of the applications being medical school admissions.

The 2012 Nobel was more for the NMRP Match process.

If I remember correctly Columbia also only extends acceptances to the equivalent size of it's class in it's first round. Perhaps surprising, considering they interview something like 1600 people a year, making their initial acceptance rate ~1%.

 

[yehhhboiii]

Look at Penn State. Didn't they offer students two years of free tuition to defer for a year?

I think they offered it as a lottery to those who chose to defer.

I've heard that Columbia has the highest percentage of accepted students matriculating (around 70%). Also, it's the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics (Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel). Alfred Nobel hated economics and didn't want his name to be associated with it.

 

[SOMBound13]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BABSstudent
Look at Penn State. Didn't they offer students two years of free tuition to defer for a year?

they found that their two year no-molestation offer got better results.

 

[darkjedi]

I think they offered it as a lottery to those who chose to defer.

I've heard that Columbia has the highest percentage of accepted students matriculating (around 70%). Also, it's the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics (Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel). Alfred Nobel hated economics and didn't want his name to be associated with it.

Actually, strangely enough, its some of the midwestern state schools with the highest yields. Even Harvard is at a paltry #10 when it comes to accepted students matriculating.

http://www.usnews.com/education/bes.../2012/06/19/10-most-popular-medical-schools-2

 

[LizzyM]

Actually, strangely enough, its some of the midwestern state schools with the highest yields. Even Harvard is at a paltry #10 when it comes to accepted students matriculating.

http://www.usnews.com/education/bes.../2012/06/19/10-most-popular-medical-schools-2

The highest yields seem to be state schools, at least some of which are not OOS friendly (thus less competition for seats), most of which are the only state school in the state (unlike NY, IL, CA, TX, etc which have more than one state funded med school) and all of which, one assumes, are cheap for instate students compared with the alternatives.

 

[Thegreenroom]

Jefferson told us that a third of their class comes off the waitlist. Probably because it's a safety school for a lot of the top applicants.

 

[SOMBound13]

Actually, strangely enough, its some of the midwestern state schools with the highest yields. Even Harvard is at a paltry #10 when it comes to accepted students matriculating.

http://www.usnews.com/education/bes.../2012/06/19/10-most-popular-medical-schools-2

that may be because those with Harvard-like stats end up getting large merit offers elsewhere. I can understand someone taking a full tuition offer to NU or Vandy instead of having that added amount in loans.