What is considered a well-recognied school?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
alibai3ah said:
1) Bearie, there is no way U of A is in the same league as UCLA or Berkeley. And to be honest, I would put UCD, UCI, and UCSD well ahead of UofA as well....as would Newsweek

2) Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Wesleyan, Pomona, Harvey Mudd, Claremont Mckenna, etc. and these liberal arts schools that LizzyM mentioned are in my opinion not that strong.

While they are selective, the applicant pool there is no way near as impressive as the UCs (Top 5), or that of other prestigious researchy public schools like Michigan, University of Virginia, UIC, University of Washington, and so on.

I'm not trying to bash these schools. I'm just saying that the pre-med compeitition there is not as tough.

For the OP, just go on newsweek and look up the Top 50 best schools in the country....But I still think it doesn't matter as long as do well.
Click to expand...

What a ridiculous statement. I went to a small liberal arts college, and not only did I take hard science courses with professors who knew how to teach, but also was exposed to more critical studies of scientific theory and practice than I probably would have at a larger university. Everyone involved in academia knows that these schools are serious and that their graduates often go on to do great things. I didn't prepare myself for med school while attending, so I still have to take my MCATs and what not, but the two students I knew who are matriculated got into Harvard and Brown.
 
alibai3ah said:
2) Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Wesleyan, Pomona, Harvey Mudd, Claremont Mckenna, etc. and these liberal arts schools that LizzyM mentioned are in my opinion not that strong.

While they are selective, the applicant pool there is no way near as impressive as the UCs (Top 5), or that of other prestigious researchy public schools like Michigan, University of Virginia, UIC, University of Washington, and so on.

I'm not trying to bash these schools. I'm just saying that the pre-med compeitition there is not as tough.
Click to expand...

Currently there are three times more Williams kids than U of Mich and seven times more Williams kids than U Washington ( as well as more of them than students from U of Virginia and Berkeley, and an equal number as the students from UCLA) kids at Columbia P&S. There are more Amherst students than U Virg, U Wash, or U Mich, and they are equal with Berkeley. Other than the Swarthmore, the other top 5 LACs are all well represented. Considering the (I assume) much smaller pre-med communities than some of these giants, I think they are doing pretty well.
 
Last edited:
mmmcdowe said:
Currently there are three times more Williams kids than U of Mich and seven times more Williams kids than U Washington ( as well as more of them than students from U of Virginia and Berkeley, and an equal number as the students from UCLA) kids at Columbia P&S. There are more Amherst students than U Virg, U Wash, or U Mich, and they are equal with Berkeley. Other than the Swarthmore, the other top 5 LACs are all well represented. Considering the (I assume) much smaller pre-med communities than some of these giants, I think they are doing pretty well.
Click to expand...

I admit that I was wrong about LACs and I'm sure they are very good academically. However, the OP was talking about name-recognition and I just felt that some of the schools I mentioned were a bit more "recognizable" than the LACs. But again I might be wrong....

In terms of what you are talking about, I think that has less to do with UCLA, Michigan, etc kids not getting into Columbia, but more to do with location. Kids that attend UC's want to stay in California and thus are probably less represented at the East Coast schools (as we have a fair number of good schools here that are cheap). And Williams college, which is an east coast school, probably has a lot of kids that want to stay in the East Coast, thus explaining the numbers that you have provided. But that's great that kids from the LACs were able to do so well.
 
alibai3ah said:
In terms of what you are talking about, I think that has less to do with UCLA, Michigan, etc kids not getting into Columbia, but more to do with location. Kids that attend UC's want to stay in California and thus are probably less represented at the East Coast schools (as we have a fair number of good schools here that are cheap). And Williams college, which is an east coast school, probably has a lot of kids that want to stay in the East Coast, thus explaining the numbers that you have provided. But that's great that kids from the LACs were able to do so well.
Click to expand...

Yes, but even if 1/5 of UCLA's applicants wanted to come to the east coast, they'd still outnumber the LACs I'd bet. It also doesn't explain why they are so well represented compared to UVA and other east coast schools (Emory, NYU, SUNY, U Mass. Even Johns Hopkins and Dartmouth are comparable in number).
 
"Originally Posted by Bearie
Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, Brown, Dartmouth, Cornell, Penn, MIT, Caltech, Stanford, Williams, Amherst, and Swarthmore.
I'd add Wellesley Middlebury, Bowdoin, Pomona, Carelton, Duke, U of Chicago, Davidson, Haveford, Claremont McKenna, Wesleyan, Vassar, Northwestern, Washington University in St. Louis, Grinnell, Harvey Mudd, Hopkins... plus any schools in the Sweet 16. "

I'm a little shocked at LizzyM's list. Not one state school.

I have this feeling LizzyM doesn't work at a public medical school. 🙂
 
alibai3ah said:
I admit that I was wrong about LACs and I'm sure they are very good academically. However, the OP was talking about name-recognition and I just felt that some of the schools I mentioned were a bit more "recognizable" than the LACs. But again I might be wrong....

In terms of what you are talking about, I think that has less to do with UCLA, Michigan, etc kids not getting into Columbia, but more to do with location. Kids that attend UC's want to stay in California and thus are probably less represented at the East Coast schools (as we have a fair number of good schools here that are cheap). And Williams college, which is an east coast school, probably has a lot of kids that want to stay in the East Coast, thus explaining the numbers that you have provided. But that's great that kids from the LACs were able to do so well.
Click to expand...

I think that the OP was talking about name recognition among adcoms...and I would imagine that every adcom recognizes the academic rigor and selectivity of the liberal arts colleges mentioned, some of which are as hard to get into as Ivies.

I'm really surprised that so many posters on this thread don't know Williams, Amherst and Swarthmore...these are really great schools.
 
mmmcdowe said:
Currently there are three times more Williams kids than U of Mich and seven times more Williams kids than U Washington ( as well as more of them than students from U of Virginia and Berkeley, and an equal number as the students from UCLA) kids at Columbia P&S. There are more Amherst students than U Virg, U Wash, or U Mich, and they are equal with Berkeley. Other than the Swarthmore, the other top 5 LACs are all well represented. Considering the (I assume) much smaller pre-med communities than some of these giants, I think they are doing pretty well.
Click to expand...

I've read a lot of arguments on this site and this is probably the worst one ever.

Regardless was the original guy talking about how the public will view it or how ADCOMs view it? Because I guarentee if you said Amherst to the average person where I'm from they would have no idea it was a top institution, or maybe they would think you were talking about UMass-Amherst. But if you told someone you went to U of M here, they would think you were damn smart. So I think it's just kind of where you are in the country, because here we were brought up thinking it was Ivy, then Big 10, then the little guys.
 
Last edited:
ruiner said:
I've read a lot of arguments on this site and this is probably the worst one ever.

Regardless was the original guy talking about how the public will view it or how ADCOMs view it? Because I guarentee if you said Amherst to the average person where I'm from they would have no idea it was a top institution, or maybe they would think you were talking about UMass-Amherst. But if you told someone you went to U of M here, they would think you were damn smart. So I think it's just kind of where you are in the country, because here we were brought up thinking it was Ivy, then Big 10, then the little guys.
Click to expand...

That was not very articulate. No offense, but exactly what are you trying to say? Do you know what you are trying to say? Are you trying to say that average student in the Big 10 has superior academic credentials in comparison to the average student at Amherst or Williams? Hopefully, that is not what you are trying to say.

Or are you just trying to say that the average uneducated person in your area of the country who rates academic institutions on the basis of football polls is not very familiar with the quality of schools like Williams and Amherst. I believe that. Those guys know more about the quality of bratwurst at their tail gating parties than educational insitutions. Yes, Ad Comms do know the difference.
 
LizzyM what about VANDERBILT, EMORY, AND RICE? Your list mentions few, if any, prestigious Southern universities.?
 
^^^ Rice/Vanderblit/Emory are not as prestigious as Claremont? Bowdoin? You do realize that Rice/Vanderbilt have 80+ percent acceptance rate to medical schools? Emory students with 3.5+/30+ mcat scores have a 80-90 percent shot at medical schools. How are they not as prestigious as the other schools mentioned in LizzyMs list? Rice/Vanderbilt/Emory are considered to be "Peer" schools to Northwestern and WashU.
 
ruiner said:
I've read a lot of arguments on this site and this is probably the worst one ever.

Regardless was the original guy talking about how the public will view it or how ADCOMs view it? Because I guarentee if you said Amherst to the average person where I'm from they would have no idea it was a top institution, or maybe they would think you were talking about UMass-Amherst. But if you told someone you went to U of M here, they would think you were damn smart. So I think it's just kind of where you are in the country, because here we were brought up thinking it was Ivy, then Big 10, then the little guys.
Click to expand...

I think you should read what I was arguing about. It wasn't layman prestige, it was the fact that top LACs don't have poor academics which was the argument being made.... And while yes 4 classes in a single medical school isn't that great of evidence that top LACs do have the academics and programs necessary to succeed at pre-med, it does at least cast doubt on the argument that they don't. If this is the worst argument on SDN I suggest you read more of SDN :laugh:.
 
Someone threw out some names... both research universities and LACs ranked in the top 15 of the list my adcom works from in assessing school prestige. I filled out the list to include every school (research or liberal arts college) in the top 15 of the list and threw in the comment about b-ball teams as a bit of a joke.

Vandy, Rice and Emory are in the top 20 of research universities and they are certainly widely recognized by adcoms as producing excellent pre-meds.
 
0kazak1 said:
Well, I sure nearly all the Ivies are on the list along with some of the UC schools. But besides California, what states have State University(ies) which are considered well-known UG colleges.

I go to the University of Arizona, so I am particular interested for what others have to say or know about this school, from a outsiders perspective.
Click to expand...

Well known state schools outside of Ca:
University of Virginia
William and Mary (Va)
UNC
Michigan
U Illinois
U Washington

Arizona is right around that top 100. If you were going to a much worse school I would say it makes a difference but I doubt that going to Arizona is going to negatively affect you.
 
searun said:
That was not very articulate. No offense, but exactly what are you trying to say? Do you know what you are trying to say? Are you trying to say that average student in the Big 10 has superior academic credentials in comparison to the average student at Amherst or Williams? Hopefully, that is not what you are trying to say.

Or are you just trying to say that the average uneducated person in your area of the country who rates academic institutions on the basis of football polls is not very familiar with the quality of schools like Williams and Amherst. I believe that. Those guys know more about the quality of bratwurst at their tail gating parties than educational insitutions. Yes, Ad Comms do know the difference.
Click to expand...

I don't know how I could have put it clearer but yes I am saying that on average here in the midwest people would be more impressed by hearing you went to Northwestern or Michigan then Amherst or Williams because they have never heard of them.
 
Last edited:
mmmcdowe said:
I think you should read what I was arguing about. It wasn't layman prestige, it was the fact that top LACs don't have poor academics which was the argument being made.... And while yes 4 classes in a single medical school isn't that great of evidence that top LACs do have the academics and programs necessary to succeed at pre-med, it does at least cast doubt on the argument that they don't. If this is the worst argument on SDN I suggest you read more of SDN :laugh:.
Click to expand...

You're right, I misread what you were trying to prove. I was just thinking "OK one guy from Michigan at Columbia, well how many actually wanted to go to Columbia or got in and went somewhere else" because obviously that could be a factor. But for sure those schools are just as competitve as any other top school.
 
metallica81788 said:
I've never heard of these - are they some of those ridiculous liberal arts schools in Massachusetts that don't believe in grades?
Click to expand...

small liberal arts schools. No grade inflation.
 
ruiner said:
I don't know how I could have put it clearer but yes I am saying that on average here in the midwest people would be more impressed by hearing you went to Northwestern or Michigan then Amherst or Williams because they have never heard of them.
Click to expand...

As I said, the average guy in the Midwest knows more about bratwurst and football than about the calibre of academic institutions. I am not sure that this has much relevance to med school admissions, though.
 
searun said:
As I said, the average guy in the Midwest knows more about bratwurst and football than about the calibre of academic institutions. I am not sure that this has much relevance to med school admissions, though.
Click to expand...
Even some of us who are involved in med school admissions in the Midwest have never heard of Harvey Mudd College, so it would bear some relevance.
 
TheProwler said:
That's because they're not prestigious schools.
Click to expand...

As an Emory student this statement seems ridiculously biased. Just because ou have never heard of it doesn't mean Adcoms haven't. I am currently aware of 6 people in my class who have interviewed at Harvard this cycle, clearly we are prestigious enough for them, even if we don't meet your standards. Myself and my classmates are definitely OK with that.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProwler
That's because they're not prestigious schools.

is this a joke or are you just an idiot?
Click to expand...
^^^ LizzyM just proved TheProwler wrong. I trust LizzyM's knowledge more than I do TheProwler's, because she is a medical school admin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleargh
is this a joke or are you just an idiot?

I think that it was a little cheese head joke.
Click to expand...
I have a lot of pride in my future alma mater.
 
I've never heard of any of those liberal arts colleges. In terms of knowledge of university's I'm really just a lay person. When I returned to school I got my transfer degree and only applied to UW, I didn't even look elsewhere. I think a lot of people straight out of high school do essentially the same thing, staying in state and not bothering to do research about out of state schools.

Obviously, based on what plenty of people have said those are great schools, I'm just bringing up the point that it shouldn't be surprising that many people haven't heard of them. I never even considered applying to a private school.
 
Schemp said:
I've never heard of any of those liberal arts colleges. In terms of knowledge of university's I'm really just a lay person. When I returned to school I got my transfer degree and only applied to UW, I didn't even look elsewhere. I think a lot of people straight out of high school do essentially the same thing, staying in state and not bothering to do research about out of state schools.

Obviously, based on what plenty of people have said those are great schools, I'm just bringing up the point that it shouldn't be surprising that many people haven't heard of them. I never even considered applying to a private school.
Click to expand...
Of course, but it would be ridic for those people to assume that every school they have never heard of isn't prestigious.
 
sewcurious said:
Of course, but it would be ridic for those people to assume that every school they have never heard of isn't prestigious.
Click to expand...
Indeed. However, it's not as ridiculous to assume the average person hasn't heard of them if you haven't. Still doesn't mean they should come out swinging telling you how you're wrong that they're prestigious though, haha.
 
ruiner said:
I don't know how I could have put it clearer but yes I am saying that on average here in the midwest people would be more impressed by hearing you went to Northwestern or Michigan then Amherst or Williams because they have never heard of them.
Click to expand...

I totally agree. I live in MI and I can tell you that within this state, if you go to a public university that ISN'T Michigan, people will just plain think you weren't smart enough to go to Michigan. It is assumed you applied, even if you didn't.
 
morning said:
I totally agree. I live in MI and I can tell you that within this state, if you go to a public university that ISN'T Michigan, people will just plain think you weren't smart enough to go to Michigan. It is assumed you applied, even if you didn't.
Click to expand...
Same with UW in Washington state. Although the rivalry between UW and WSU is pretty big so unfortunately some kids grow up always wanting to go to WSU... *shudder*

I'm sure plenty of states have this joke for rival schools: "What's do a UW student and a WSU student have in common? They both applied to UW."
 
I know Uof Arizona is good for sun and girls. thats all
 
While there are many liberal arts colleges that are prestigious, there is a big difference between prestigious schools and well-reconigzed schools (which is what the OP was asking). Many schools are both.

Liberal Arts Colleges- have good education and are prestigious, but are really not as well recognized as some people here are deluded into thinking they are.

Big Name Research Schools- Michigan, UC's, etc. Have both the prestige AND the recognition.

You go outside of this country and say i go to Berkeley will have a VERY different response than if you say I go to Harvey Mudd College. Again I don't care how great Harvey Mudd is, in terms of recognition alone, they are not even comparable....

I hope people from LACs are not offended. No one is saying they are dumb or had it easy. But realistically speaking, LACs are just not as well recognized as some other schools. Secondly, the guy who said Vandy, Emory, and Rice aren't prestigious is just plain wrong.
 
I would say people recognize both UW and Michigan across the country as top public schools, along with the UC's, UNC, and I'm probably leaving a couple out... These schools are well recognized for sure. Prestigious? It's debatable.
 
madamebovary said:
^ As a student from a LAC, i obviously agree that LACs are not well recognized among general population. To add on, an LAC only has a student body size of ~1-2k, so cant really expect these students to spread the word out on how great the school is to everyone. We made the trade off for smaller class rooms and getting to know our professors better. Further, big U's get a lot of the recognition from their awesome grad schools and their div 1 sports team (usually).

Whether Mudd (for example) has a comparable recognition as berk to the general populace should not matter that much to a student as long as grad schools adcoms are recognizing Mudd and their students.
Click to expand...
i do want to point out that i went to a relatively large, well known university of "prestige" or whatever, and my classes were also small and i too got to know professors quite well.. just sayin..
 
bleargh said:
i do want to point out that i went to a relatively large, well known university of "prestige" or whatever, and my classes were also small and i too got to know professors quite well.. just sayin..
Click to expand...
if you attend one of those prestigious U, i mean its expected right?, you are paying the same price of tuition as us. obviously the class size will depend on upper div vs intro and what subject.


if we really need to make comparisons....🙄
none of our intro classes have ever exceeded 40 and our profs teach our labs too, no TAs...just sayin...

look im just trying to defend the mentality why some students are going to these LACS
 
Last edited:
madamebovary said:
if you attend one of those prestigious U, i mean its expected right?, you are paying the same price of tuition as us. obviously the class size will depend on upper div vs intro and what subject.


if we really need to make comparisons....🙄
none of our intro classes have ever exceeded 40 and our profs teach our labs too, no TAs...just sayin...

look im just trying to defend the mentality why some students are going to these LACS
Click to expand...

People go where they feel comfortable. Your college/university is where you will spend 4 years of your life and meet tons of people, who may or may not be like you, depending on if you find the right fit. Big universities, prestigious or not, are not for everybody for undergrad.
 
SteinUmStein said:
People go where they feel comfortable. Your college/university is where you will spend 4 years of your life and meet tons of people, who may or may not be like you, depending on if you find the right fit. Big universities, prestigious or not, are not for everybody for undergrad.
Click to expand...

Precisely. I grew up in Oregon and I am a huge Duck fan (For those of you who are not Duck fans, that is the University of Oregon). But I chose to go to one of the best LAC schools in the country. The size of the student body was less than 1,500 hundred students.

I had an absolutely fantastic 4 years. Played varsity sports, sang in an a capella choir, snowboarded in competitions all over the country, belonged to a fraternity, just had a ball. Is this experience for everyone, well, no.

It worked out fine for me. As it will work out fine for students at Ivy league schools and big state schools like Berkeley, or Washington, or Michigan ... find a place that you can excel, and then, excel. If you excel where you are, then the sky really is the limit.

Yeah, it really is about fit. I graduated from this little LAC, and now I am doing fine in med school. Surprising, no, not at all. It is about finding your place in the world, having the necessary talent, and self confidence.
 
So I go to a top 5 LAC and no one from back home has any idea of the prestige and academic rigor of the school. I think adcoms, however, are going to be aware. There's actually grade deflation policies here!
 
alibai3ah said:
While there are many liberal arts colleges that are prestigious, there is a big difference between prestigious schools and well-reconigzed schools (which is what the OP was asking). Many schools are both.

Liberal Arts Colleges- have good education and are prestigious, but are really not as well recognized as some people here are deluded into thinking they are.

Big Name Research Schools- Michigan, UC's, etc. Have both the prestige AND the recognition.

You go outside of this country and say i go to Berkeley will have a VERY different response than if you say I go to Harvey Mudd College. Again I don't care how great Harvey Mudd is, in terms of recognition alone, they are not even comparable....

I hope people from LACs are not offended. No one is saying they are dumb or had it easy. But realistically speaking, LACs are just not as well recognized as some other schools. Secondly, the guy who said Vandy, Emory, and Rice aren't prestigious is just plain wrong.
Click to expand...
Jokes









Your head
 
To summarize imo:

Schools that may impress:
US News national university ranking top 16 (I don't think people care much about Emory).
Liberal arts college ranking top 6.

That's the list.

For anybody here who thinks UoA would help in application, truth of the matter is that it hurts more than helps, but a well put application can trump your problem.

UoA = lots of lazy partier, no tough curve, high acceptance rate. which means you better excel among your peers.
 
fastfingers said:
To summarize imo:

Schools that may impress:
US News national university ranking top 16 (I don't think people care much about Emory).
Liberal arts college ranking top 6.

That's the list.

For anybody here who thinks UoA would help in application, truth of the matter is that it hurts more than helps, but a well put application can trump your problem.

UoA = lots of lazy partier, no tough curve, high acceptance rate. which means you better excel among your peers.
Click to expand...

srsly%20guys.jpg
 
I knew this thread would be pointless before I clicked on it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

FutureDOCTORR123456789
Is hospital volunteering considered clinical or nonclinical
Replies
7
Views
1K
Goro
Goro
cold_urticaria
Is this considered late (and I shouldn't get my hopes up)?
Replies
4
Views
571
Goro
Goro
D
What exactly is a clinical informatics fellowship?
Replies
14
Views
1K
LizzyM
LizzyM
A
  • Question Question
Unconventional Extracurriculars? Is this considered a hobby or nonclinical volunteering?
Replies
4
Views
962
AJS59
AJS59
J
What is considered clinical experience? Do I need more?
Replies
17
Views
2K
LizzyM
LizzyM
Top