What is difference between osteopathic and allopathic surgeons?

[Creightonite]

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How would a DO surgeon treat lets say appendix as compared to an MD?

found this thread on this topic but it does not explain anything:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=318176

 

[Jpc984]

I imagine there wouldn't be a difference.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

DO's perform surgery on the whole person, rather than just a specific organ.

Also, there is OMM. A DO surgeon may elect to make an incision and simply manipulate the internal organs while it is being held open with retractors.

 

[Jpc984]

DO's perform surgery on the whole person, rather than just a specific organ.

Also, there is OMM. A DO surgeon may elect to make an incision and simply manipulate the internal organs while it is being held open with retractors.

I am assuming you are being sarcastic... I am just clarifying that fact for the OP.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

That is probably a safe assumption.

 

[nascardoc]

How would a DO surgeon treat lets say appendix as compared to an MD?

found this thread on this topic but it does not explain anything:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=318176

Usually with a scalpel in the surgical suite. There might be some post-op OMM though.

 

[RySerr21]

DO's perform surgery on the whole person, rather than just a specific organ.

Also, there is OMM. A DO surgeon may elect to make an incision and simply manipulate the internal organs while it is being held open with retractors.

thats probably the 40th time ive heard you say that joke. i chuckled the first time.

 

[Boner]

thats probably the 40th time ive heard you say that joke. i chuckled the first time.

Agreed

 

[gasapple]

The difference is "JP Hazelton versus generally less-pretentious surgeons". 😀

 

[scpod]

Usually with a scalpel in the surgical suite. There might be some post-op OMM though.

Actually, this is very true....when it is used. The surgery is the smae, yet implementing OMM post-op has been studied many times. The incidence of post-op ileus is greatly decreased and the average days of hospital stay are decreased as well. So...there is a potential difference.

 

[Beau Geste]

can this be moved to the MD vs. DO thread? This is that type of post after all.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

The number of times I've told that joke is nothing compared to the number of times the OP has asked this same ridiculous question on here.

 

[Creightonite]

I do not ask the same questions if I get good answers. There is really little comprehensive information about osteopathic medicine on the net so I have to collect bits and pieces from different sources. The information that is out there even on AOA website is plainly insufficient.

 

[spicedmanna]

I do not ask the same questions if I get good answers. There is really little comprehensive information about osteopathic medicine on the net so I have to collect bits and pieces from different sources. The information that is out there even on AOA website is plainly insufficient.

There is no noticeable difference between the two, with the exception of OMM, if the DO chooses to use it. I believe this has been said numerous times.

 

[RySerr21]

The number of times I've told that joke is nothing compared to the number of times the OP has asked this same ridiculous question on here.

eh...you cant excuse your lack of good humor with somoene elses lack of original questions 👍 i think what makes your jokes so irritating is that no matter how many times you say it, there is always someone who takes you literally. so, its not all your fault 😀

 

[Nasem]

DO's perform surgery on the whole person, rather than just a specific organ.

LMAO LMAO, first time seeing that joke

 

[navrad]

I do not ask the same questions if I get good answers. There is really little comprehensive information about osteopathic medicine on the net so I have to collect bits and pieces from different sources. The information that is out there even on AOA website is plainly insufficient.

You ask this on a pre-med site????

 

[Porco Rosso]

DOs uses their magical mind power to open dissection area instead of scalpels. Plus, they are the only doctors to prescribe ferry's dust.

 

[Beau Geste]

I think you mean fairy dust. A ferry is a ship.

 

[Bond8204]

I think you mean fairy dust. A ferry is a ship.

False. Dirt from a boat that transports people or vehicles across a body of water and operates on a regular schedule has shown far reaching benefits for a DO's post-surgical voodoo.

It's science.

 

[BCLumas]

3 main things to take away from this thread..

1.) Threads like this are pointless because they lead to stupid banter and should be in the "MD v DO thread"
2.) People who think TT is an idiot should only criticize when they are perfect
3.) There is a severe lack of pie in this thread

 

[RySerr21]

LMAO LMAO, first time seeing that joke

don't throw fuel into the fire, now hes going to think its funny again. is this the only post youve read cuz its in about every single one just different variations.

for example, the two most recent ( both posted within the last two days)

"the DO treats the whole heart, not just the pericardium"
"the DO treats the the whole bone not just the broken part"

 

[scpod]

Threads like this are pointless because they lead to stupid banter and should be in the "MD v DO thread"

Oh it's certainly gotten pointless now....but it is actually a pretty legitimate topic for discussion. There are quite a few things that a DO can do for a surgical patient post-op to alleviate the chance of an ileus, speed up the healing and recovery time, and decrease the length of a hospital stay. OMM is wonderful in these cases.

A really intelligent conversation could have been begun about this. Probably in your second year of med school, if it's done like mine, you'll begin learning techniques that help pulmonary, cardiac, GI, etc. patients-- both surgical and non-surgical patients-- and help them to either speed their recovery or improve their quality of life.

Instead, when the question gets asked, most of the crowd jumps on the bandwagon with a smart *** answer, almost as if they can't wait to turn the thread into a mocking jocularity festival. Don't blame the OP that this thread turned into a pile of garbage. It could have been a thread where you might have learned something.

 

[Playmakur42]

.

 

[Jpc984]

Oh it's certainly gotten pointless now....but it is actually a pretty legitimate topic for discussion. There are quite a few things that a DO can do for a surgical patient post-op to alleviate the chance of an ileus, speed up the healing and recovery time, and decrease the length of a hospital stay. OMM is wonderful in these cases.

A really intelligent conversation could have been begun about this. Probably in your second year of med school, if it's done like mine, you'll begin learning techniques that help pulmonary, cardiac, GI, etc. patients-- both surgical and non-surgical patients-- and help them to either speed their recovery or improve their quality of life.

Instead, when the question gets asked, most of the crowd jumps on the bandwagon with a smart *** answer, almost as if they can't wait to turn the thread into a mocking jocularity festival. Don't blame the OP that this thread turned into a pile of garbage. It could have been a thread where you might have learned something.

I don't think the OP meant post-op though...

 

[scpod]

I don't think the OP meant post-op though...

That's not the point. He asked how an osteopathic surgeon would treat an appendix case differently from an MD. Pre-op and post-op care is a BIG part of surgery. OMM post-op care is one big difference. It's also where most of the studies have been concentrated-- so for those people who like to shout about "proof"...it's there.

Yet, there are quite a few pre-op things that can be done for patients as well. For an appendix, maybe not, because what you want to do in that case is get it out ASAP so you won't end up with a rupture. The actual pre-op care you would perform for a patient would depend on his or her particular illness.

The actual "surgical" part of the case, where you are doing the cutting, is identical.

 

[Jpc984]

That's not the point. He asked how an osteopathic surgeon would treat an appendix case differently from an MD. Pre-op and post-op care is a BIG part of surgery. OMM post-op care is one big difference. It's also where most of the studies have been concentrated-- so for those people who like to shout about "proof"...it's there.

Yet, there are quite a few pre-op things that can be done for patients as well. For an appendix, maybe not, because what you want to do in that case is get it out ASAP so you won't end up with a rupture. The actual pre-op care you would perform for a patient would depend on his or her particular illness.

The actual "surgical" part of the case, where you are doing the cutting, is identical.

Yeah, that is true. I was referring to post#24 more than yours... What you said here, actually answers all facets of the OPs post.

 

[scpod]

Are there any recommended websites that provide more info on OMM?

I don't really know of any websites. There are a bunch of books out there, but OMM is something you learn by doing it. You can read up on the theory, but without the hands-on stuff, honestly, it can seem pretty boring. 🙂

 

[gasapple]

SCPOD - noted something on the evening news tonight regarding atlas alignment and a reduction in blood pressure. Have you come across anything along these lines in your OMM training?

 

[ThisIsYourLife]

Oh it's certainly gotten pointless now....but it is actually a pretty legitimate topic for discussion. There are quite a few things that a DO can do for a surgical patient post-op to alleviate the chance of an ileus, speed up the healing and recovery time, and decrease the length of a hospital stay. OMM is wonderful in these cases.

A really intelligent conversation could have been begun about this. Probably in your second year of med school, if it's done like mine, you'll begin learning techniques that help pulmonary, cardiac, GI, etc. patients-- both surgical and non-surgical patients-- and help them to either speed their recovery or improve their quality of life.

Instead, when the question gets asked, most of the crowd jumps on the bandwagon with a smart *** answer, almost as if they can't wait to turn the thread into a mocking jocularity festival. Don't blame the OP that this thread turned into a pile of garbage. It could have been a thread where you might have learned something.

👍👍👍

thanks. this WHOLE sdn forum pisses me off sometimes the way people jump all over eachother for nothing. someone needed to say it.

 

[scpod]

SCPOD - noted something on the evening news tonight regarding atlas alignment and a reduction in blood pressure. Have you come across anything along these lines in your OMM training?

Oh yeah. Treatment of the cervical ganglia can reduce hypersympathetic tone. What does the sympathetic nervous system do? Constricts blood vessels. What do constricted blood vessels cause? Hypertension. So...if you decrease the sympathetic tone of the cervical ganglia, would you not reduce blood pressure?

 

[t-funk]

👍

👍👍👍

thanks. this WHOLE sdn forum pisses me off sometimes the way people jump all over eachother for nothing. someone needed to say it.

Me too. 👍 I can get pissy sometimes with my uncontollable incessant urge to defend the little guy, but sometimes I just don't understand why everyone is so uptight and trying to jump down each other's throats, especially lately. It makes me sad.

 

[EEL08]

don't throw fuel into the fire, now hes going to think its funny again. is this the only post youve read cuz its in about every single one just different variations.

for example, the two most recent ( both posted within the last two days)

"the DO treats the whole heart, not just the pericardium"
"the DO treats the the whole bone not just the broken part"

I'm sorry I really don't mean to add something meaningless to this thread but reading those last two quotes makes me crack up all over again. 😆

 

[endocardium]

I don't think the OP meant post-op though...

No, probably not. In fact, I recall similar threads by the OP in the past in various forums. He seems to come around every now and then to ask questions about how osteopathic physicians are different than allopathic ones. Each time people will endulge him and provide him with legitimate answers, but he remains sceptical about the validity of osteopathic medicine. This isn't hard to find out. Just look at his post history.

Nevertheless, scpod is right. This is no reason to jump all over the OP and act like idiots. We should respond with maturity and with knowledge/facts, or not at all. Each of one us, on the path to becoming DO's, is a representative of our profession. Let's step up to the plate and act like professional adults.

 

[JaggerPlate]

don't throw fuel into the fire, now hes going to think its funny again. is this the only post youve read cuz its in about every single one just different variations.

for example, the two most recent ( both posted within the last two days)

"the DO treats the whole heart, not just the pericardium"
"the DO treats the the whole bone not just the broken part"

Whewww ... you have got to relax a little. The reason why Tex posted as he did (which by the way he is a member with 2k + posts who is very well respected and liked around the boards) is because a question of this nature gets asked every ten minutes by a noob who can't use the damn search function. Every thread melts down into a joke, and MD vs DO war, or just fades away ... don't take it personal or offensive or anything else. It's the nature of internet forums, nothing more. When serious questions/discussions arise, they are met with open arms on the boards, but people who have been here for a while know when to crack jokes at the troll/repeat ones.

 

[Beau Geste]

That's not the point. He asked how an osteopathic surgeon would treat an appendix case differently from an MD. Pre-op and post-op care is a BIG part of surgery. OMM post-op care is one big difference. It's also where most of the studies have been concentrated-- so for those people who like to shout about "proof"...it's there.

Yet, there are quite a few pre-op things that can be done for patients as well. For an appendix, maybe not, because what you want to do in that case is get it out ASAP so you won't end up with a rupture. The actual pre-op care you would perform for a patient would depend on his or her particular illness.

The actual "surgical" part of the case, where you are doing the cutting, is identical.

So MD vs. DO threads only get moved when they deteriorate?

This, by your own admission is a DO vs. MD thread, and as such should be moved to the DO vs. MD thread.

You might be annoyed when people jump all over the OP, but I'm annoyed when mods aren't consistent.

 

[scpod]

So MD vs. DO threads only get moved when they deteriorate?
....

If there are legitimate questions that can be answered about differences between and MD and DO training or practice, then it is not an MD vs DO argument. It's just a good question. When peole start silly crap, then it often turns into just another MD vs DO thread that does no good. There is absolutely nothing wrong with calmly discussing digfferences or distinctions among the degrees because there are some. Their are differences in the application process, the matriculation process, the curuculum, the boards, residency, etc. Some people come here to learn things because, even though it is a growing profession, osteopathic medicne is not a big thing in many parts of the country.

OTOH, there are some trolls who come in to start problems or people who want to act like idiots who do their best to start up an argument. However, not every time that you hear MD and DO in the same thread title is that the case. I set up the Final Resting Place as a "home for MD vs DO threads that have run their course." This is one probably headed there soon. But legitimate threads, with relevant discussion, are welcomed.

 

[Bond8204]

We should respond with maturity and with knowledge/facts, or not at all. Each of one us, on the path to becoming DO's, is a representative of our profession. Let's step up to the plate and act like professional adults.

You, and others here, are taking this message board a little too seriously.

 

[Lokhtar]

You, and others here, are taking this message board a little too seriously.

Many people use this as their primary source - I know I did when I was starting out. I don't have any doctors in the family, and when I was starting out with a lot of questions and nowhere to turn to, this site was a life saver. Perhaps other people have other resources, but if the questions I asked when I was starting out had been shot down via sarcastic remarks and condescending attitudes, I have no idea where I would have turned to for help.

Without being over dramatic, this web site has been the most important resource for me in terms of my path to being a physician (this is why I feel obligated to donate and participate in the non-trad and post-bac forum answering questions). Without it, if I had listened to my pre-med adviser and others, I would have given up a long time ago. I am not saying that you shouldn't respond with humor and sarcasm when warranted, but not when its in response to a new person asking a legitimate questions. Many people don't know about DOs - I didn't and really six months ago, I would have had the same question.

 

[Beau Geste]

If there are legitimate questions that can be answered about differences between and MD and DO training or practice, then it is not an MD vs DO argument. It's just a good question. When peole start silly crap, then it often turns into just another MD vs DO thread that does no good. There is absolutely nothing wrong with calmly discussing digfferences or distinctions among the degrees because there are some. Their are differences in the application process, the matriculation process, the curuculum, the boards, residency, etc. Some people come here to learn things because, even though it is a growing profession, osteopathic medicne is not a big thing in many parts of the country.

OTOH, there are some trolls who come in to start problems or people who want to act like idiots who do their best to start up an argument. However, not every time that you hear MD and DO in the same thread title is that the case. I set up the Final Resting Place as a "home for MD vs DO threads that have run their course." This is one probably headed there soon. But legitimate threads, with relevant discussion, are welcomed.

This is not what I am disputing.

The way I see it, any thread that is obviously an MD vs. DO thread should be put in the MD v. DO thread for consolidation purposes, not because of content.

What's the point of having the MD v. DO thread if you don't do that? If it's because of the "trollish" MD v. DO posts, then maybe you should think about closing the MD v. DO thread outright and closing the trollish threads from the start.

If the OP really wants to know the answer to this question, then posting it in the Surgery forum would be more appropriate, as both MD and DO med students, surgical residents, and surgeons post there. Here you will get nothing but the typical MD v. DO banter with some intellectual posts thrown in.

 

[gasapple]

Oh yeah. Treatment of the cervical ganglia can reduce hypersympathetic tone. What does the sympathetic nervous system do? Constricts blood vessels. What do constricted blood vessels cause? Hypertension. So...if you decrease the sympathetic tone of the cervical ganglia, would you not reduce blood pressure?

Thanks for that response - makes sense. 👍

 

[RySerr21]

Whewww ... you have got to relax a little. The reason why Tex posted as he did (which by the way he is a member with 2k + posts who is very well respected and liked around the boards) is because a question of this nature gets asked every ten minutes by a noob who can't use the damn search function. Every thread melts down into a joke, and MD vs DO war, or just fades away ... don't take it personal or offensive or anything else. It's the nature of internet forums, nothing more. When serious questions/discussions arise, they are met with open arms on the boards, but people who have been here for a while know when to crack jokes at the troll/repeat ones.

i know why tex does it and i'm not upset/offended nor am i trying to start a fight. like i said, i chuckled the first time he said it . im just giving him a hard time. my bad if it came off like i was actually mad

 

[scpod]

...If the OP really wants to know the answer to this question, then posting it in the Surgery forum would be more appropriate....

The pre-osteo forums is for learning about all things osteopathic. The surgery forum is for people who either are surgeons or are applying to be surgeons. Medical school students who are looking for rotation spots where they might want to apply for residency are welcomed there. That's where they learn about a craft that they might be entering soon. It's not a place for general surgical questions like this.

 

[Beau Geste]

The pre-osteo forums is for learning about all things osteopathic. The surgery forum is for people who either are surgeons or are applying to be surgeons. Medical school students who are looking for rotation spots where they might want to apply for residency are welcomed there. That's where they learn about a craft that they might be entering soon. It's not a place for general surgical questions like this.

That's not true. There are several posts I've seen by pre-meds in the surgery forum.

 

[scpod]

That's not true. There are several posts I've seen by pre-meds in the surgery forum.

Anybody can post there if they want to. There are no laws being broken if pre-meds post there. But, you're not likely to get a great answer because most people that know what they are talking about don't have the time to give a good responce. Besides, MOST of the people that post there don't know anythingabout OMM. How would they possibly be able to give a good, clear and accurate answer?

 

[Beau Geste]

Anybody can post there if they want to. There are no laws being broken if pre-meds post there. But, you're not likely to get a great answer because most people that know what they are talking about don't have the time to give a good responce. Besides, MOST of the people that post there don't know anythingabout OMM. How would they possibly be able to give a good, clear and accurate answer?

How could a PRE-med give a good, clear, accurate answer?

There are DO surgeons that post there. JPH is not the only DO surgeon on SDN. I think it's a great place for this particular question because they have something pre-meds do not: EXPERIENCE. As a DO, experience as a DO surgeon, and as an MD, experience working with DO surgeons.

All pre-meds can do is talk about their dad's friend or whatever.

 

[scpod]

How could a PRE-med give a good, clear, accurate answer?
....

SDN is not an "ask the expert" service. There ARE mentor forums for people who wish to do that but they are rarely used. oSDN is a place for people to gather and "discover" new things in life. They talk it out amongst each other and hopefully learn to get along at the same time. Sometimes they come to wrong conclusions too. That's just a part of life. Hopefully, along the way, they will learn how to use the kinds of advice they are given and determine whether it is valid or not.

If there was an expert who correctly answered every question every time one was asked, then there would never be any discussion and the free flow of ideas would cease. That free flow of ideas is the thing that keeps people coming to SDN-- but there must always be limits. Debate it good if it is done well. Deciding who to believe is an important concept in life.

 

[Beau Geste]

SDN is not an "ask the expert" service. There ARE mentor forums for people who wish to do that but they are rarely used. oSDN is a place for people to gather and "discover" new things in life. They talk it out amongst each other and hopefully learn to get along at the same time. Sometimes they come to wrong conclusions too. That's just a part of life. Hopefully, along the way, they will learn how to use the kinds of advice they are given and determine whether it is valid or not.

If there was an expert who correctly answered every question every time one was asked, then there would never be any discussion and the free flow of ideas would cease. That free flow of ideas is the thing that keeps people coming to SDN-- but there must always be limits. Debate it good if it is done well. Deciding who to believe is an important concept in life.

That's why I think it's more appropriate to get answers from people with experience, even if they may not be "experts".

If I have a question about surgeon differences, I'm not going to ask a pre-med. Sorry.

 

[scpod]

If I have a question about surgeon differences, I'm not going to ask a pre-med. Sorry.

Not only pre-meds are here. This is THE appopriate place for pre-meds to ask their questions. If they can't be answered, then generally a good way to find the answer can be found. Learning to find those answers is what SDN can help you do...but placing the question in pre-osteo is often the best. first step. Continue to argue all you want. I'm leaving for the weekend.

 

[Beau Geste]

Not only pre-meds are here. This is THE appopriate place for pre-meds to ask their questions. If they can't be answered, then generally a good way to find the answer can be found. Learning to find those answers is what SDN can help you do...but placing the question in pre-osteo is often the best. first step. Continue to argue all you want. I'm leaving for the weekend.

I agree with you except in this case.