What is different about Mayo Medical school?

[Iwannaknow]

I knew that they had an extremely low acceptance rate, but I didn't realize that it was "post-interview". Does that mean that they liberally interview students?

They acceptance rate is low all around. 400 get interviews out of about 5000 that apply. Of the 400, historically, at rochester, 80 are admitted for the class of about 50. Then another 20 or so get off the waitlist. So about 100 acceptances of 400 (25%) and an overall acceptance rate of 2%. I know the 25% is lower than schools like Harvard, JHU, and WashU (33% or so), and I'm fairly certain the 2% is among the lowest, if not the lowest.

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[Iwannaknow]

They acceptance rate is low all around. 400 get interviews out of about 5000 that apply. Of the 400, historically, at rochester, 80 are admitted for the class of about 50. Then another 20 or so get off the waitlist. So about 100 acceptances of 400 (25%) and an overall acceptance rate of 2%. I know the 25% is lower than schools like Harvard, JHU, and WashU (33% or so), and I'm fairly certain the 2% is among the lowest, if not the lowest.

That being said, I think it'll be slightly higher for arizona, or they are gonna have to offer good money. I think theyll be about 120-150 acceptances out of the 400.

 

[gyngyn]

Small, insular, quirky, no university, no city.

 

[libertyyne]

Small, quirky, no university, no city.

Could it be improved if everyone wore pindot ties?

 

[gyngyn]

Could it be improved if everyone wore pindot ties?

Not likely.

 

[Iwannaknow]

Small, insular, quirky, no university, no city.

To be fair, it IS super quirky. The students there were different then every other school I've been to. I loved it, but I doubt everyone does.

 

[libertyyne]

To be fair, it IS super quirky. The students there were different then every other school I've been to. I loved it, but I doubt everyone does.

Have you interviewed at both ?

 

[Iwannaknow]

Have you interviewed at both ?

Yeah, I'm talking about Rochester though. The students I interviewed with in Arizona were less quirky, but they were still super cool. It'll be interesting to see if the student culture between the two schools is different.

Btw, Hollywood Upstairs Medical School is my top choice.

 

[libertyyne]

Yeah, I'm talking about Rochester though. The students I interviewed with in Arizona were less quirky, but they were still super cool. It'll be interesting to see if the student culture between the two schools is different.

Btw, Hollywood Upstairs Medical School is my top choice.

Dr.Nick is a tenured professor now. The clinical rotations are mostly in the morgue, pretty chill besides that. I was afraid I would have to go to Bollywood Upstairs, but the stars aligned.

 

[FeinMS]

Yeah, I'm talking about Rochester though. The students I interviewed with in Arizona were less quirky, but they were still super cool. It'll be interesting to see if the student culture between the two schools is different.

Btw, Hollywood Upstairs Medical School is my top choice.

I agree with Iwannaknow too. I found AZ interviewees more easy going and less quirky compared to MN interviewees.

 

[LoveMed25]

These could be pros or cons depending on your perspective:

It is a small school with a small student body (208 vs 710 at Harvard and 472 at Hopkins)
It is in Rochester Minnesota, population ~112,000
It is in a county that is not very diverse (Non-hispanic White, 90%)
Winters are cold; in January the average high is 23.6 and the average low 7.7.
It is not affiliated with a university.

Totally disagree with you. You just gave the cons...here are some pros.
Class size = 50 means faculty and deans get to know you personally. It's great. You get to know your classmates and develop a great support system. You're not just a number!
Because of Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minnesota has been named a "Destination Medical Center" which means the Minnesota, Mayo and others are investing billions in new development in Rochester over the next decade. There's a huge plan to expand the city, research resources, housing, restaurants, etc.
While the county isn't very diverse, the patients coming to Mayo Clinic are - from all fifty states and 150 countries every year.
Winters aren't much colder than the upper east coast. PLUS...all of Mayo Clinic (including the school) is connected by skyways and subway walking system, so you can get around without going outside. Lots of fun winter sports too.
Not affiliated with a university - correct. However, the flexible block schedules allow you to pursue dual degrees with universities while retaining med school status.
Mayo Clinic is ranked the #1 hospital in the nation. Why would you want to study any where else? And the Mayo hospitals in Florida and Arizona are both ranked #1 in each of those states.
Mayo students match VERY HIGH. Majority getting their top choice. Almost all getting one of their top three choices. It's insane!

 

[Iz_FtB]

Totally disagree with you. You just gave the cons...here are some pros.
Class size = 50 means faculty and deans get to know you personally. It's great. You get to know your classmates and develop a great support system. You're not just a number!
Because of Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minnesota has been named a "Destination Medical Center" which means the Minnesota, Mayo and others are investing billions in new development in Rochester over the next decade. There's a huge plan to expand the city, research resources, housing, restaurants, etc.
While the county isn't very diverse, the patients coming to Mayo Clinic are - from all fifty states and 150 countries every year.
Winters aren't much colder than the upper east coast. PLUS...all of Mayo Clinic (including the school) is connected by skyways and subway walking system, so you can get around without going outside. Lots of fun winter sports too.
Not affiliated with a university - correct. However, the flexible block schedules allow you to pursue dual degrees with universities while retaining med school status.
Mayo Clinic is ranked the #1 hospital in the nation. Why would you want to study any where else? And the Mayo hospitals in Florida and Arizona are both ranked #1 in each of those states.
Mayo students match VERY HIGH. Majority getting their top choice. Almost all getting one of their top three choices. It's insane!

There wasn't much opinion in her post, mostly small facts about the school and location. Given the option, a large chunk of SDN would attend Mayo, I think.

 

[LoveMed25]

Let's look what goes into the ratings. NIH funding... Mayo is small and rural and doesn't pull in as many big federal grants as the big city schools. Competitiveness of the admission process: Mayo has a very small class (~52), is in a relatively remote, Northern location, and it is very picky about sending secondaries so some applicants may eschew it. Fewer applicants means a greater proportion of applicants are admitted compared with some "popular" schools. Students' undergrad GPA/MCAT: Mayo is not a number ***** but looks for interesting students who will be a good fit. There may be other things that go into the formula that disadvantage Mayo.

US News rankings are weird. Geared more toward university systems. Lot has to do with NIH funding and who they count as faculty with NIH dollars. I think it's more important that your training in Mayo Medical School is at MAYO CLINIC. The #1 ranked hospital in the nation!

 

[Shirafune]

As much as I would love to attend Mayo, it certainly isn't for everybody and for good reasons, many of which LizzyM pointed out.

Small class size isn't for everyone. Rochester is a terrible city for young people, especially those from the coasts/bigger cities. Temperature is whatever; students shouldn't make it a determining factor, imo.

From the far more important clinical training perspective, Mayo clinic does not serve a diverse patient population per se. It's a referral hospital and generally deals with (white), affluent folk. Others can speak to this, but I can't imagine you'd want to do your clerkships at Mayo if you wanted to match at an EM program in NYC. I don't think you would be as well prepared. Of course, also not great if you're interested in urban medicine. I think it's very easy to get caught up in the fact that Mayo is ranked #1 in so many specialties, but it truly depends on the career goals of the individual student. If you have no clue what you want to do, then Mayo will be just fine, but if you're looking for something in particular, Mayo may not provide that.

No university affiliation generally means less research going on. You're not going to find the wide buffet of research opportunities that a medical school with an affiliated undergrad will provide. My interviewer said this himself. The small class size certainly helps with getting your "top choice" research project from those that are available to you.

Lastly, yes, 90%+ of Mayo students match to one of their top 3 choices. I don't know how well other programs place students into their top choices, so I can't really make a meaningful comment. However, many students that attend Mayo are from the area and prefer to match within the region which may mislead students who go to MMS thinking they can match anywhere they want. Certainly, purely from anecdotal evidence on SDN, Mayo has no problems placing students into competitive specialties and residencies (i.e. Mayo, MGH, BWH, etc). I'm not sure if it would have helped, but I wish I took a look at their match list during interview day.

 

[mimelim]

Totally disagree with you. You just gave the cons...here are some pros.
Class size = 50 means faculty and deans get to know you personally. It's great. You get to know your classmates and develop a great support system. You're not just a number!
Because of Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minnesota has been named a "Destination Medical Center" which means the Minnesota, Mayo and others are investing billions in new development in Rochester over the next decade. There's a huge plan to expand the city, research resources, housing, restaurants, etc.
While the county isn't very diverse, the patients coming to Mayo Clinic are - from all fifty states and 150 countries every year.
Winters aren't much colder than the upper east coast. PLUS...all of Mayo Clinic (including the school) is connected by skyways and subway walking system, so you can get around without going outside. Lots of fun winter sports too.
Not affiliated with a university - correct. However, the flexible block schedules allow you to pursue dual degrees with universities while retaining med school status.
Mayo Clinic is ranked the #1 hospital in the nation. Why would you want to study any where else? And the Mayo hospitals in Florida and Arizona are both ranked #1 in each of those states.
Mayo students match VERY HIGH. Majority getting their top choice. Almost all getting one of their top three choices. It's insane!

Most of my faculty and deans knew me personally. This is more a function of the student than the school. No medical school is huge. You are going to get to know your classmates at every school in the US, if you want to. Again, this is a function of the student more than the school. Will you know every single student at your school if your classes are larger? No. But, it also means that you have more different people to choose to be around, or not be around. At no school in the US are you "just a number".

"Destination Medical Center" is a marketing push to increase medical tourism to Rochester. There is money coming into Rochester for development of that, creating a medical center. Other than that, there isn't a ton in Rochester. If your spouse works outside of medicine, Rochester is a very hard sell from an employment standpoint.

Patients travelling from different states/countries does not really contribute to your medical education. Medical education is about seeing bread and butter in a cross section of our population. Diversity isn't a bunch of rich people flying in or people with rare illnesses flying in. Mayo does not offer this relative to other schools. Now, it is debatable how important this is overall to a student's development, but trying to trump up diversity of patients because people fly in is a little ridiculous.

Winters are much more severe than the East Coast. Average high for January in Rochester is 24. Boston: 36, NYC: 38. Snow fall? 53inches vs. 46 and 26. It isn't even close. Further, you can talk about skywalks all you want. You still have to go home at some point. Again, if you are single and don't mind living mostly in the hospital, not a big deal. For those with spouses and/or families? A big difference.

"#1 hospital in the nation" by whose standards? #1 for patients (which of course is ridiculous, but sure by some metrics I'm sure an argument can be made) does not mean #1 for students. Argument for residency at Mayo? Sure. Medical school? Pretty poor reason.

 

[Shirafune]

Most of my faculty and deans knew me personally. This is more a function of the student than the school. No medical school is huge. You are going to get to know your classmates at every school in the US, if you want to. Again, this is a function of the student more than the school. Will you know every single student at your school if your classes are larger? No. But, it also means that you have more different people to choose to be around, or not be around. At no school in the US are you "just a number".

"Destination Medical Center" is a marketing push to increase medical tourism to Rochester. There is money coming into Rochester for development of that, creating a medical center. Other than that, there isn't a ton in Rochester. If your spouse works outside of medicine, Rochester is a very hard sell from an employment standpoint.

Patients travelling from different states/countries does not really contribute to your medical education. Medical education is about seeing bread and butter in a cross section of our population. Diversity isn't a bunch of rich people flying in or people with rare illnesses flying in. Mayo does not offer this relative to other schools. Now, it is debatable how important this is overall to a student's development, but trying to trump up diversity of patients because people fly in is a little ridiculous.

Winters are much more severe than the East Coast. Average high for January in Rochester is 24. Boston: 36, NYC: 38. Snow fall? 53inches vs. 46 and 26. It isn't even close. Further, you can talk about skywalks all you want. You still have to go home at some point. Again, if you are single and don't mind living mostly in the hospital, not a big deal. For those with spouses and/or families? A big difference.

"#1 hospital in the nation" by whose standards? #1 for patients (which of course is ridiculous, but sure by some metrics I'm sure an argument can be made) does not mean #1 for students. Argument for residency at Mayo? Sure. Medical school? Pretty poor reason.

Definitely agree with student-faculty relationships. I went to a large public school, but got to know my 2 PIs, 2 upper-division bio professors, and other faculty very well. You can make it work, no matter the class size.

The Arizona campus addresses some of the location issues the Minnesota campus faces, particularly diversity. Sizable Latino population, large city, and dedicated children's hospital probably provide experiences more representative of medicine across the country. Of course, more job opportunities for SO in Phoenix.

But if I could ask, how do you think residencies will view MMS graduates from the Arizona campus? Are there aspects they would scrutinize more?

 

[mimelim]

Definitely agree with student-faculty relationships. I went to a large public school, but got to know my 2 PIs, 2 upper-division bio professors, and other faculty very well. You can make it work, no matter the class size.

The Arizona campus addresses some of the location issues the Minnesota campus faces, particularly diversity. Sizable Latino population, large city, and dedicated children's hospital probably provide experiences more representative of medicine across the country. Of course, more job opportunities for SO in Phoenix.

But if I could ask, how do you think residencies will view MMS graduates from the Arizona campus? Are there aspects they would scrutinize more?

I don't know what aspects they would scrutinize. School you go to matters very little for 95%+ of applicants. Scores, research and letters are so much bigger pieces of the pie. For high end academics, where you go may make a difference, but other than the "Oh hey he went to a 'top' school" moment when your file gets opened, it makes almost no difference.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

There's a huge plan to expand the city

what's the point in expanding a city nobody lives in

 

[IlDestriero]

what's the point in expanding a city nobody lives in

If you build it they will come.
Unless it's one of those creepy deserted cities in China.


--
Il Destriero

 

[mimelim]

what's the point in expanding a city nobody lives in

I mean it is nice to have cities/states investing in the areas around hospitals. The restaurants, entertainment, housing etc. is good for those living there. It definitely makes the area more attractive. My point is that to fix that "nobody lives in" part, you have to have other draws beyond medicine. Something that Rochester is lacking.

 

[libertyyne]

I mean it is nice to have cities/states investing in the areas around hospitals. The restaurants, entertainment, housing etc. is good for those living there. It definitely makes the area more attractive. My point is that to fix that "nobody lives in" part, you have to have other draws beyond medicine. Something that Rochester is lacking.

It is scary going through America in places where healthcare is considered the primary employer. Will there be a healthcare version of rust belt after demographic changes and cost containment makes those hospitals and healthcare systems economically unviable. I digress. I agree with the sentiment that it requires a healthy mix of industries to make a city vibrant.

On the criticism of diversity lacking in the population being treated, does it matter to residency PDs considering the complexity of the cases that mayo see's and the quality of care that they provide? Do people care that Harvard graduates attended a school that predominately has students from higher ses compared to the general population?

 

[Endoxifen]

I don't know what aspects they would scrutinize. School you go to matters very little for 95%+ of applicants. Scores, research and letters are so much bigger pieces of the pie. For high end academics, where you go may make a difference, but other than the "Oh hey he went to a 'top' school" moment when your file gets opened, it makes almost no difference.

This is a digression, but are clinical papers written during undergrad considered significant when applying to residency?

 

[LizzyM]

Every paper you write goes on your CV forever.

 

[Endoxifen]

Every paper you write goes on your CV forever.

Thank you! And what is considered a competitive number of papers?

 

[Lawpy]

Every paper you write goes on your CV forever.

Does this extend to national/international abstracts and presentations?

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Do people care that Harvard graduates attended a school that predominately has students from higher ses compared to the general population?

Are you implying Mayo somehow doesn't draw from a similar pool?

Thank you! And what is considered a competitive number of papers?

Depends on your field

Does this extend to national/international abstracts and presentations?

Yes but as your accomplishments start piling up it might be wise to be more selective with the non-pub section

 

[teenagemutant]

That being said, I think it'll be slightly higher for arizona, or they are gonna have to offer good money. I think theyll be about 120-150 acceptances out of the 400.

Do you really think they'll accept that many more for AZ? Most of the people from my interview were thinking AZ > MN for Mayo, even thought it is a "new school" in AZ.

 

[Shirafune]

Do you really think they'll accept that many more for AZ? Most of the people from my interview were thinking AZ > MN for Mayo, even thought it is a "new school" in AZ.

I agree with the 120-150 acceptances estimate. I think they were too optimistic during interview day in saying they planned on 80 - 100 acceptances. People will definitely be wary of AZ being a new campus: curriculum might be the same, but everything else is different. I think AZ has better clinical experience opportunities in regards to a more diverse patient population, but I really hope the starting AZ faculty/staff/infrastructure will still provide as equal of an education (resources included) as the MN campus. The "getting started" phase for faculty, no upperclassmen, and lack of research opportunities (I would actually like to hear others' thoughts on AZ research) are my concerns.

I'm not sure people are willing to take the QOL "upgrade" the AZ campus offers over the established and proven MN program. I'm not even sure people are willing to risk the AZ campus over other schools, but these are just my two cents.

 

[ChrisMack390]

I agree with the 120-150 acceptances estimate. I think they were too optimistic during interview day in saying they planned on 80 - 100 acceptances. People will definitely be wary of AZ being a new campus: curriculum might be the same, but everything else is different. I think AZ has better clinical experience opportunities in regards to a more diverse patient population, but I really hope the starting AZ faculty/staff/infrastructure will still provide as equal of an education (resources included) as the MN campus. The "getting started" phase for faculty, no upperclassmen, and lack of research opportunities (I would actually like to hear others' thoughts on AZ research) are my concerns.

I'm not sure people are willing to take the QOL "upgrade" the AZ campus offers over the established and proven MN program. I'm not even sure people are willing to risk the AZ campus over other schools, but these are just my two cents.

I think that its the same and even better in a lot of ways, but I do agree that there will be students that get in to Mayo-AZ and another top 20 school and decide against "dealing with" the new school. Personally, I am not dissuaded at all.