What is more important for residency? Community service or Research?

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jgalt42

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Hi Everyone,

I'm starting medical school in the fall. I guess this question is super broad and it would depend on which specialty/residency I end up applying to in a few years. Besides grades/ranking/board scores, what do residency programs look at more favorably? Research or community service?

I'm still keeping an open mind, and I'm sure this will change, but these are 3 possible specialties I am considering:
- Ophtho
- EM
- Neurology

Thanks for the help and info!
 
no one cares about community service once you get into medical school
 
notbobtrustme said:
no one cares about community service once you get into medical school
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Wrong. If you do Eventually decide EM, then I'd argue community service can be looked at VERY favorably. For Optho or Neuro I'd definitely say research though, either way, you really can't go wrong with research and in all honesty, it's not hard to do both.
 
DreamingTheLive said:
Wrong. If you do Eventually decide EM, then I'd argue community service can be looked at VERY favorably. For Optho or Neuro I'd definitely say research though, either way, you really can't go wrong with research and in all honesty, it's not hard to do both.
Click to expand...

Someone doing access or outcomes or some other kind of research like that would likely be looked upon MUCH more favorably than the guy who volunteers at the free clinic a few times a month for FM/EM, etc.

For competitive specialties it's not even a question.
 
notbobtrustme said:
no one cares about community service once you get into medical school
Click to expand...

Given that one of the listed specialties is EM, this is entirely false.

Well-done community service endeavors will trump crappy research any day of the week.
 
Slack3r said:
Someone doing access or outcomes or some other kind of research like that would likely be looked upon MUCH more favorably than the guy who volunteers at the free clinic a few times a month for FM/EM, etc.

For competitive specialties it's not even a question.
Click to expand...

That's like saying someone making As in one thing will do better than someone pulling Cs in another thing. It has nothing to do with the activities and everything to do with the fact that "volunteering in a free clinic a few times a month" is fairly low on the list of impressive projects one can do related to community service.

Someone doing interesting program planning and design work in community service is absolutely going to be looked favorably upon when it comes to residency work. Project quality and how it relates to future work as a resident is the most important thing.
 
jgalt42 said:
Hi Everyone,

I'm starting medical school in the fall. I guess this question is super broad and it would depend on which specialty/residency I end up applying to in a few years. Besides grades/ranking/board scores, what do residency programs look at more favorably? Research or community service?

I'm still keeping an open mind, and I'm sure this will change, but these are 3 possible specialties I am considering:
- Ophtho
- EM
- Neurology

Thanks for the help and info!
Click to expand...


Research. You spend your career doing plenty of community service as a physician.
 
Slack3r said:
Someone doing access or outcomes or some other kind of research like that would likely be looked upon MUCH more favorably than the guy who volunteers at the free clinic a few times a month for FM/EM, etc.

For competitive specialties it's not even a question.
Click to expand...

Wrong. Horrible comparison too.

The OP noted EM, a specialty of which is quickly becoming very competitive and of which I'm matching into this spring. I have both research (multiple publications, including 1st author) and extensive community service. Guess which one my interviewers were time and again most impressed by? Plus, like I said, why not do both?
 
DreamingTheLive said:
Wrong. Horrible comparison too.

The OP noted EM, a specialty of which is quickly becoming very competitive and of which I'm matching into this spring. I have both research (multiple publications, including 1st author) and extensive community service. Guess which one my interviewers were time and again most impressed by? Plus, like I said, why not do both?
Click to expand...
Generally speaking we don't really care as much about Community Service compared to Research. I say this as a resident involved in selection committees and having talked to my friends elsewhere who are on selection committees. I also here the PDs talking and that great school fair you coordinated is noted but the abstract presented at ACEP or the paper in AEM is looked at more favorably.

There is a push for EM to become more productive as a research specialty hence the recent creation of the NIH EM research division. EM Programs are also clamping down on what counts as "scholarly activity" as vaguely defined by the RRC. Case reports and small posters aren't going to get it done nowadays. They want you to plan a project, submit to IRB, execute the project and either produce a manuscript or present at a national meeting. Being able to critically read literature will serve you well also.

While a few programs are going to be impressed by extensive community experience I assure you while they are discussing you in the resident/PD meetings it is publications that are paid more attention to between the two.

I say this with the caveat that community shops may not care as much as academic institutions.
 
inspirationmd said:
Generally speaking we don't really care as much about Community Service compared to Research. I say this as a resident involved in selection committees and having talked to my friends elsewhere who are on selection committees. I also here the PDs talking and that great school fair you coordinated is noted but the abstract presented at ACEP or the paper in AEM is looked at more favorably.

There is a push for EM to become more productive as a research specialty hence the recent creation of the NIH EM research division. EM Programs are also clamping down on what counts as "scholarly activity" as vaguely defined by the RRC. Case reports and small posters aren't going to get it done nowadays. They want you to plan a project, submit to IRB, execute the project and either produce a manuscript or present at a national meeting. Being able to critically read literature will serve you well also.

While a few programs are going to be impressed by extensive community experience I assure you while they are discussing you in the resident/PD meetings it is publications that are paid more attention to between the two.

I say this with the caveat that community shops may not care as much as academic institutions.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected.
 
Again, without a doubt, research. But why not both? A few high quality endeavors into both will be looked upon much more highly than someone who joins every club etc. but makes no meaningful contribution.

Survivor DO
 
Why the emphasis on research when most people will never do it again? It seems it's becoming a hoop to climb or a box to check.
 
Cyal said:
Why the emphasis on research when most people will never do it again? It seems it's becoming a hoop to climb or a box to check.
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ya, but programs attract top faculty because they have residents that, ostensibly, enjoy doing research for them. These residents increase the ouput of top faculty, such that the entire program benefits in terms of rankings/prestige/NIH funding. The fact that most med students/resident won't pursue a research career afterwards has no real bearing on this state of affairs.
 
notbobtrustme said:
ya, but programs attract top faculty because they have residents that, ostensibly, enjoy doing research for them. These residents increase the ouput of top faculty, such that the entire program benefits in terms of rankings/prestige/NIH funding. The fact that most med students/resident won't pursue a research career afterwards has no real bearing on this state of affairs.
Click to expand...

Makes sense
 
Community Service for medical school, and research for residency.

Sent from my A110 using Tapatalk 2
 
Cyal said:
From your article: "In our survey, grades in preclinical courses are not highly valued by program directors."

That's fine, however, since the USMLE appears to be largely content-based test (as opposed to say the MCAT), shouldn't more acquired knowledge in the preclinical years lead to better performance on the test?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Not all schools teach their pre-clinical years to Step 1. Most courses are taught by Ph.D's who prefer to teach their own research than anything useful. And while there are certain courses that may be highly applicable (pharm, path, phys), you will absolutely need to review a lot of material and learn new material that was never taught. If Step 1 was just a cumulative test from the first two years, people wouldn't freak out about it as much as they do. It is so much more than that.
 
gimghoul said:
Given that one of the listed specialties is EM, this is entirely false.

Well-done community service endeavors will trump crappy research any day of the week.
Click to expand...
That's like saying someone making As in one thing will do better than someone pulling Cs in another thing.

You just chastised someone for doing this right after you did it yourself...

Cyal said:
Why the emphasis on research when most people will never do it again? It seems it's becoming a hoop to climb or a box to check.
Click to expand...
Oh, you'll do it again, as a resident.
 
DreamingTheLive said:
The OP noted EM, a specialty of which is quickly becoming very competitive and of which I'm matching into this spring.
Click to expand...

Eh, I think that might be a bit of a stretch.

As a side note, I don't understand the obsession with EM docs calling their hospitals "shops." Then again, I don't understand the allure of the ER mullet either, so what do I know.
 
DreamingTheLive said:
Wrong. Horrible comparison too.

The OP noted EM, a specialty of which is quickly becoming very competitive and of which I'm matching into this spring. I have both research (multiple publications, including 1st author) and extensive community service. Guess which one my interviewers were time and again most impressed by? Plus, like I said, why not do both?
Click to expand...

No actually it's not. Sorry broski
 
Personally I'd forget about what looks better and just do what you enjoy more. You'll look far better in the interview if you're able to talk passionately about what you did, regardless. Obviously research will look better on paper for top-tier programs, but if you set up some kind of fantastic community service program, or coordinated an international program, then that's probably going to look better (in my mind). Programs want to see that you take initiative and can really lead.

And often that means doing both 🙂
 
TheProwler said:
That's like saying someone making As in one thing will do better than someone pulling Cs in another thing.

You just chastised someone for doing this right after you did it yourself...


Oh, you'll do it again, as a resident.
Click to expand...

No, that was another way of stating the same point - that it isn't what you do, but how well you do it. Perhaps I could have been more clear, but if you took that to say I was arguing that community service > research, you should probably reread and reconsider my posts.
 
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GuyWhoDoesStuff said:
Eh, I think that might be a bit of a stretch.

As a side note, I don't understand the obsession with EM docs calling their hospitals "shops." Then again, I don't understand the allure of the ER mullet either, so what do I know.
Click to expand...

I don't think its much of a stretch at all. But its subjective and I could really give 2 sh*ts.

Otherwise I have no idea what you're referring to with the mullet thing, but, I'm always jealous of anyone who can rock a solid mullet.
 
rocketbooster said:
No actually it's not. Sorry broski
Click to expand...

He seemed to be comparing "strong" research experience with a "weak" community service experience (subjectively), so ya, it was.

I don't really care and I don't want to get into a pissing contest with internet tough guys. I still say just do both or do whatever you're most passionate about. Do that and I really don't think you can go wrong.
 
DreamingTheLive said:
I don't think its much of a stretch at all. But its subjective and I could really give 2 sh*ts.

Otherwise I have no idea what you're referring to with the mullet thing, but, I'm always jealous of anyone who can rock a solid mullet.
Click to expand...


The ER mullet is the classic term for the ED physician's uniform of scrub top and khaki chinos. So odd, and so specific for the ED.
 
I didn't do either, but if you're to believe the 2012 NRMP program directors' survey, both are pretty far down the list of what gets you ranked highly, with research slightly getting the edge. Note that both are considered less important than "other life experience." That said, it's commonly accepted that the importance of research roughly correlates with the competitiveness of the specialty you're going into. I've never heard of any program placing value on community service, though I'm sure it probably happens. Anecdotally, of the 16 places I interviewed at for anesthesia, I was asked about my research interests at maybe half of them. Volunteerism or community service never came up.
 
GuyWhoDoesStuff said:
The ER mullet is the classic term for the ED physician's uniform of scrub top and khaki chinos. So odd, and so specific for the ED.
Click to expand...

Huh. In my 12 weeks of EM rotations I've never once come across this. Interesting.
 
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