What is the consensus on Misdemeanor convictions and acceptance into medical school?

[Goro]

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Would it be possible to speak to someone on an admissions committee at a medical school? I suppose if there are adcoms posting in this thread then there is no difference, right? It's not that I don't like what I'm being told, but of course, who would like being told you're not going to get a second chance to redeem yourself from past mistakes. It's more so, I'm just amazed that the opportunity to correct a couple past mistakes is non-existent.

Moko and I are Adcoms; gonnif has extensive experience with them.

You seem shocked that actions have consequences. My 17 year old behaves this way.

 

[deleted859689]

If they did everything perfectly then you're saying there's no rhyme or reason why they never get into medical school? Clearly, they didn't do everything perfect if they never get in. Unless, acceptance into medical school is luck based? I honestly don't know if the risk is worth it given everything I'm reading, so I'm uncertain as to what I'm going to do at this point. If 60% of all applicants are rejected then what do I have to lose? I wouldn't be the first person who wanted to become a medical doctor, and never got accepted into a medical school, right? So honestly, time is the only thing lost, and it's not entirely lost if I pick a useful undergraduate degree.

If he wants to try, why not. He knows the risks now. OP go for it and please update us throughout your cycle. If you get in, it will be very informative to others in the same situation. If not, still informative to others in the same situation. Go for it. It’s your life and you make the decisions! You’ve read the signs that you are going the “wrong way” against oncoming traffic. Let’s hope you don’t crash and burn.

 

[SUH2160158]

What exactly are teh

Moko and I are Adcoms; gonnif has extensive experience with them.

You seem shocked that actions have consequences. My 17 year old behaves this way.

I'm well aware that actions have consequences, and I was optimistic that people believe human beings deserve second chances. The reason our culture is so messed up today is because people once you've done something wrong, you deserve to be labeled that way the rest of your life. Once a criminal, always a criminal is a terrible way to look at life, and human beings. If an admissions committee would automatically reject my application because of a background check then so be it. I only have the power to control my own actions, and I'm more focused on controlling what I can, and not trying to control what I cannot. If 60% of applicants do not make it into medical school then ending up in that 60% is not the most terrible thing in the world. Honestly, trying and failing seems more appealing then not even trying at all. There has to be one admission committee in medical school that believes in giving someone who's made mistakes in their life an opportunity. I'm focused on showing that I've changed, and deserve that chance through the application process. Again, if I fail then at least I tried, and apparently many have tried and failed with me if I never get accepted, so I wouldn't be alone.

 

[deleted859689]

What exactly are teh


I'm well aware that actions have consequences, and I was optimistic that people believe human beings deserve second chances. The reason our culture is so messed up today is because people once you've done something wrong, you deserve to be labeled that way the rest of your life. Once a criminal, always a criminal is a terrible way to look at life, and human beings. If an admissions committee would automatically reject my application because of a background check then so be it. I only have the power to control my own actions, and I'm more focused on controlling what I can, and not trying to control what I cannot. If 60% of applicants do not make it into medical school then ending up in that 60% is not the most terrible thing in the world. Honestly, trying and failing seems more appealing then not even trying at all. There has to be one admission committee in medical school that believes in giving someone who's made mistakes in their life an opportunity. I'm focused on showing that I've changed, and deserve that chance through the application process. Again, if I fail then at least I tried, and apparently many have tried and failed with me if I never get accepted, so I wouldn't be alone.

1 mistake, sure. Two mistakes? Well now you just got hit by a semi.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

What exactly are teh


I'm well aware that actions have consequences, and I was optimistic that people believe human beings deserve second chances. The reason our culture is so messed up today is because people once you've done something wrong, you deserve to be labeled that way the rest of your life. Once a criminal, always a criminal is a terrible way to look at life, and human beings. If an admissions committee would automatically reject my application because of a background check then so be it. I only have the power to control my own actions, and I'm more focused on controlling what I can, and not trying to control what I cannot. If 60% of applicants do not make it into medical school then ending up in that 60% is not the most terrible thing in the world. Honestly, trying and failing seems more appealing then not even trying at all. There has to be one admission committee in medical school that believes in giving someone who's made mistakes in their life an opportunity. I'm focused on showing that I've changed, and deserve that chance through the application process. Again, if I fail then at least I tried, and apparently many have tried and failed with me if I never get accepted, so I wouldn't be alone.

It's not that medical schools don't believe you deserve a second chance. It's more like they think you might have trouble getting licensed after you graduate, so why put you in extreme debt and all the stress associated with med school in the first place. They're actually doing you a favor by not accepting you.

Sent from my SM-G973U using SDN mobile

 

[Goro]

It's that medical schools don't believe you deserve a second chance. It's more like they think you might have trouble getting licensed after you graduate, so why put you in extreme debt and all the stress associated with med school in the first place. They're actually doing you a favor by not accepting you.

Sent from my SM-G973U using SDN mobile

In addition, we're averse to people who repeated bad choices, or simply don't learn from their mistakes.

 

[gonnif]

[QUOTE="SUH2160158, post: 21316149, member: 1014513]...Do people with high GPA's and high MCATS get turned down by medical schools?

Yes every year people with stellar applications get rejected. Only around 40 percent of applicants get accepted each cycle. Twenty percent get one acceptance and around twenty percent get two or more. That means that around 60 percent are rejected each cycle including applicants with near perfect applications.
You can certainly spend the next several years preparing to apply but as many ADCOMS on SDN say “ always have a plan B”!

just to add to this.
20% with 517+ MCAT dont get in
40% with 3.8+ GPA dont get in
60% with 3.6-3.8 GPA dont get in

Overall applicants (55,000 who apply to an average of 16 schools each)
100% apply
60% get rejected
20% get a single acceptance
20% get multiple acceptance

Overall applications
900,000 individual applications
150,000 total interview slots
only 15%-20% of applications get an interview at max
80%+ applications at any individual school get rejected without even getting interview

 

[deleted978973]

If it's something really small and minor like a MIP or POM no one will care. No one ever brought up my MIP at any of my interviews.

 

[DokterMom]

You've probably given some of the best advice here so far, so I thank you for your input. From what it sounds like, the consensus is that I'm almost hopeless in terms of getting into a medical school, but that it's not completely impossible. If the admissions committee believes I'm worthy of redemption given my mistakes then I may get in, but if not I'm screwed. So going with plan A and B at the same time is probably my best bet. I'm going to try to major in something like biomedical engineering, or any science related field that has a great job outlook. As far as proving my commitment, do you have any recommendations on how I would go about doing that? What I mean is that, are you recommending I volunteer for something specific, or that my extra circulars are tailored differently? How exactly would I define my commitment to the legal system on my application? Sorry, I'm just not following you the greatest as to what I can do to improve my odds legally.

From a legal perspective, would having a crime set aside, or expunged make any difference on a medical school application? Would an adcom committee look at the criminal act in the same way? I've read that even expunged or set aside crimes have to be reported eventually, so I'm just curious as to whether or not this would help in any shape or form.

Activities I'd suggest -- Assuming your motivations were pure in the ICE incident, something having to do with helping legal immigrants would be logical and consistent and help direct your narrative. Consider teaching English as a second language to adult immigrants, volunteering in a health clinic serving the poor, volunteering as a Big Brother/Sister, tutoring immigrant children, registering voters to help change laws you think are unjust, if you speak Spanish, volunteering as a translator or advocate -- something with a social justice angle to it. By legal, I don't necessarily mean with the legal system, just something that is not against the law.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Would jail time for federal law violation preclude gaining a state license? I have no clue. Anybody?

 

[ciestar]

This is tough. I know people with DUI’s who struggled to find a job at all. (A family member in the medical field had multiple DUI’s, got one while employed, was fired for said offense and really struggled to find another job afterward)

Either way, OP, your chances are zero if you don’t apply.

Not gonna get super political and I also don’t know the details of your case, but, given what ICE is/does... idk, i could be sympathetic.

 

[DNAJB6]

Any chance you could get an executive pardon? Per AMCAS offenses for which you were pardoned don't need to be reported. I know it is a long shot. Also if there is a way to have a conviction vacated as suggested by @gonnif , then that would also affect the calculus. An expungement merely deletes the record of a conviction. Vacating a conviction voids it. Make sure that the AZ set aside process is a true vacatur.

You are getting mixed advice in part because you are sparse on facts. Talk to a lawyer, see what you can get accomplished on that end. Then come back and let us know what you're dealing with at that point.

 

[SUH2160158]

Any chance you could get an executive pardon? Per AMCAS offenses for which you were pardoned don't need to be reported. I know it is a long shot. Also if there is a way to have a conviction vacated as suggested by @gonnif , then that would also affect the calculus. An expungement merely deletes the record of a conviction. Vacating a conviction voids it.

You are getting mixed advice in part because you are sparse on facts. Talk to a lawyer, see what you can get accomplished on that end. Then come back and let us know what you're dealing with at that point.

My optimism was placed in possibly expunging the federal misdemeanor until I researched the inability to do that. As far as the DUI is concerned, the only thing I can do is have it Set Aside, which is close to expungement, but not exactly the same thing. I don't think federal courts offer anything for offenses other than an executive pardon, which is a longshot from what I've been reading. It is very challenging to get the President of America to pardon your crime. Realistically, I may get the DUI Set Aside, but the federal misdemeanor may remain on my record. There is the possibility of a presidential pardon five years after the crime was committed, but again I have no idea how realistic it is to obtain a presidential pardon. I think hiring an attorney is probably a good idea here.

 

[Moko]

Too many leaps of logic here. Saying that "serious" misdemeanors will significantly and negatively affect one's chances for admissions does not equate to not believing in second chances. It simply means that there are more qualified candidates.

 

[DrOngoGablogian]

This has been an interesting thread to follow. Just my completely general 2 cents as I certainly cannot offer any qualified advice...

There are a million doors in life. If one shuts it doesn't mean there's no second chances, there's 999,999 other doors out there- thousands of potential opportunities that you might look back and say was the best thing to ever happen to you.

 

[SUH2160158]

Too many leaps of logic here. Saying that "serious" misdemeanors will significantly and negatively affect one's chances for admissions does not equate to not believing in second chances. It simply means that there are more qualified candidates.

I agree with what you are saying, and I'm not undermining the seriousness of the misdemeanors committed. But utilizing your logic, why do medical schools accept anyone with a criminal background? There were clearly more qualified candidates who had no criminal background. Arguably, the nail in the coffin for me maybe the fact I have two misdemeanors, and survival with one was a definite possibility? I mean I'm starting to lean toward the consensus that if I had just one DUI then there would be far more hope. I think it's relevant o bring up the fact that there are countless misdemeanor offenses that are far worse than what I've done. Assault, robbery, fraud, some sexual offenses, etc. It would make more sense that offenses like the ones I've listed automatically disqualify you from medical school, but I'm not the expert here.

I think a guy helping illegals elude inspection sounds better than punching somebody in the face at a bar, or groping a woman. Again, I believe that there are crimes that automatically would disqualify you from any professional job, especially medicine, but I'm just sold on the idea that my offenses were serious enough to not warrant any type of forgiveness.

Maybe I'll give it my all, and join the 60% crowd party one year who don't get accepted. Ultimately, that's the worst thing can happen, right? No one gives me a chance, and I move on with my life.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

I agree with what you are saying, and I'm not undermining the seriousness of the misdemeanors committed. But utilizing your logic, why do medical schools accept anyone with a criminal background? There were clearly more qualified candidates who had no criminal background. Arguably, the nail in the coffin for me maybe the fact I have two misdemeanors, and survival with one was a definite possibility? I mean I'm starting to lean toward the consensus that if I had just one DUI then there would be far more hope.

Look, it just comes down to your money and time. It sounds like you really want this, so shoot your shot. You’ve been told it’s a gamble, but it’s ultimately your life and your call. If you can afford it and are OK with the risks, then apply and see what happens.

For what it’s worth, I think your DUI could actually be more harmful to your overall application than the immigration-related misdemeanor. Depending on the circumstances of the immigration situation, I could see schools (particularly social justice focused programs or those in left-leaning areas) being sympathetic to you. Nobody is going to be OK with your DUI.

 

[deleted859689]

No one here is physically stopping you from applying. At this point in this thread, however, I seriously question your ability to learn from your mistakes. If you want to hear from someone that everything is going to be OK and you have a chance, post on reddit - r/premed. You will find support there.

 

[SUH2160158]

No one here is physically stopping you from applying. At this point in this thread, however, I seriously question your ability to learn from your mistakes. If you want to hear from someone that everything is going to be OK and you have a chance, post on reddit - r/premed. You will find support there.

You seriously question my ability to learn from my mistakes because I have two misdemeanor offenses on my record, or because of this thread? I realize no one is physically stopping me from applying, and that's perfectly fine. Ultimately, I'll have to be the one to decide whether taking such a high risk is worth it, and if i'm willing to invest the time working towards trying to get into medical school. Any and all information I can find regarding my situation is useful to me though, especially if I'm contemplating spending four years of my life working toward something.

 

[Ultimax]

I think that you should apply and see how it turns out. I did show your post to a family member of mine, who is in the admission committee of a medical school, and he says that it does not look good on your application at all. But then again, rather try and fail than not trying at all right.

 

[deleted859689]

You seriously question my ability to learn from my mistakes because I have two misdemeanor offenses on my record, or because of this thread? I realize no one is physically stopping me from applying, and that's perfectly fine. Ultimately, I'll have to be the one to decide whether taking such a high risk is worth it, and if i'm willing to invest the time working towards trying to get into medical school. Any and all information I can find regarding my situation is useful to me though, especially if I'm contemplating spending four years of my life working toward something.

I apologize, I just feel like at this point we are beating a dead horse, so to say. Your views have not changed and neither has our advice. I doubt any new relevant information will present itself. I truly and sincerely wish you the best of luck. But as Goro said, actions have consequences. I would hope a future physician, for instance, would think twice before driving a vehicle inebriated. But then again, I guess that would be hard if you were drunk 😵 then drink responsibly? And for the immigrant thing I’m sure there are legal ways to go about helping those in need.

 

[diasterdream]

I knew it was going to be an uphill battle regarding the possibility of getting into a medical school before I posted, but I'm just shocked to hear people think it'll be impossible with a couple of misdemeanor convictions that are non-sexual, non-assault, non-theft based. I'm not undermining the seriousness of any criminal offense, but some misdemeanors are obviously worse than others. I mean I knew for a fact that for a felony it's a definite impossibility, but I had more optimism that forgiveness for misdemeanor offenses seemed to be more plausible. I've also read around the forums from people who've asked similar questions, and the responses seem to a lot different. As of right now, I'm not sure whether to give up the pursuance, or to try to do everything I can to gain entry.

No offense, but you have a DUI. Many people are not forgiving of DUIs because the serious threat your posed to yourself and others. You can downplay that all you want, but for me, a DUI signals serious judgement and character issues. It's selfish and arrogant to drive under the influence especially in a world where Uber and Lyft exists. Additionally, you have another charge that you went to prison for. These things do not bode well for your character and ability to reason ethically. Sure, if you have a very compelling reason to help someone evade the authorities, then maybe you will get leniency. However, this is banking on your application even getting past digital screens that filter out criminal behavior.

If you want to apply, you need to show immense dedication to showing your growth and reflection on this incident by service and initiative to prevent DUIs. This will take years. Be honest with yourself about your chances, and don't waste time on medicine if you can't get in after a cycle. Because I promise you, the number reason you would be rejected is because your criminal offenses.

 

[deleted480308]

You can go to jail or prison for misdemeanor offenses. Again, going to prison does not mean you have been convicted of a felony from the legal scheme of things. I appreciate your input, and advice. I'll continue to seek the opinions of other people until I'm convinced one way or the other. If I was a felon convict then everything your saying makes perfect sense, but the thing is I'm not a felon. What about expungement regarding the federal misdemeanor conviction? How about how much time that has passed since the convictions? I'm just shocked to hear that misdemeanor convictions alone would weed you out entirely of ever becoming a medical doctor in America.

I have a hard time believing that a near perfect application wouldn't result in a school looking past at a couple mistakes in someones life, and giving them a second chance. That's only assuming I had a near perfect application. Is the application process into medical school that unforgiving? Even for low tier medical schools?

No one with a dui and 4 months in prison has a near perfect application

 

[SUH2160158]

I agree with the last two replies, and mainly being honest about my chances of getting in. This is something that ultimately maybe too high risk for me, so I have to figure out what to do, and figure out what's best for myself moving forward. Locking the thread because any other reply here is pointless. What needed to be said, has been said, and there is nothing left to say. Enough people have expressed how they feel, and I've obtained A LOT of different perspectives, and opinions about my situation. I no longer need the advice, or suggestions from anyone. Moving forward, I'll figure out what's best for my life. I wish you all the best, and hope you have success being doctors or becoming doctors. Thank you for your time. God bless!