What is this LVI Institute???????????

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areucool1234

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What is LVI? I've seen it on the credentials of almost EVERY successful dentists. I know its for cosmetic dentistry and stuff. Is it like a residency?

Should I go to LVI after I finish dental school? Or should I go after I complete like an ortho residency? Do they accept people who are like 1-2 years out of dental school?

Please tell me more about this. THANKS!!!

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From what I gather, LVI is the "Las Vegas Institute". I believe it is a long term studyclub/CE program that focuses on comprehensive treatments dealing with occlusion and TMJ disorders. I know Panki Institute is similar but has some differences. I'm interested to know a little more as well.
 
Basically, they train your office to convince every patient that walks in the office to get a bunch veneers, even if they don't need it or there are much cheaper options for the same result. Everyone dentist that graduate from their $15k class is suddenly convinced they too can do extreme makeover cosmetic dentistry. It's like everyone that graduate from the Micheal Jordan Basketbal School suddenly feel like they can play great basketball, which is not true. I've personally seen some horrible cases and some questionable cases done by these guys. Search dentaltown to see all the back and forth arguments.
 
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You bring all your staffs and an actual patient to do one veneer case over two weekends. They train the frontdesk, the assistants, and doctor on the whole methodology and actual practice. It used to increase your income a few years ago when the economy was hot. Now these offices are the ones suffering the most, as with all high-end retailers.
 
LVI is an embarassment to the profession... hopefully they'll go bankrupt financially because they're already bankrupt morally.
 
Basically, they train your office to convince every patient that walks in the office to get a bunch veneers, even if they don't need it or there are much cheaper options for the same result. Everyone dentist that graduate from their $15k class is suddenly convinced they too can do extreme makeover cosmetic dentistry. It's like everyone that graduate from the Micheal Jordan Basketbal School suddenly feel like they can play great basketball, which is not true. I've personally seen some horrible cases and some questionable cases done by these guys. Search dentaltown to see all the back and forth arguments.

LVI is an embarassment to the profession... hopefully they'll go bankrupt financially because they're already bankrupt morally.

Amen, amen, a thousand times amen.
 
Yeah, after you complete your ortho residency, you should totally, like, do this program because it will make you, like tons of money and then like, everyone will absolutely love you. OMG, like I hear so many great things!!!

I'm gonna do it after my pediatric residency because there's so many children out there with crappy baby teeth that like, need veneers in the meantime.
 
Wow, I had no idea the reputation LVI had. I'm interested to see what I can dig up. What do you all know about Pankey? Same deal?

Comparing LVI and Pankey is simply inequitable. Pankey/Dawson (Many FL guys take both) are practice philosophies as well as sophisticated clinical learning. While some may contend that is the case with LVI as well (neuro-muscular rehab and cosmetic practice surrounded around veneers), Pankey is a longer established (1970 vs. 1995 for LVI) and reputed curriculum that focuses around having a well-rounded practice and the centric-relation based rehab. Now one could argue that NM vs CR can produce excellent clinical results from either philosophy, I do not know enough about NM to disparage it.

However, it seems LVI is most focused upon branding themselves and the docs that take their courses. I am bothered by the fact that they want to market that LVI dentists are somehow superior to others. NM-philosophy aside, I have heard horror stories about how they tell dentists to practice and how now many of those same docs are in serious financial trouble. I do, however, think it's excellent that it helps dentists get out of the benefit plan-based philosophy and free themselves of third party control. Shedding the insurance companies is the greatest feeling in a practice... as long as you can make it work for your market.

I have, however, seen some great work done by both LVI and Pankey guys, so it may seem like this is a West coast / East coast thing. The Pankey course gave some lectures at Nova and the doc I practiced with for almost 2 years was a devoted Pankey / Bill Strupp guy and his work was incredible. I find the philosophy of a repeatable skeletal-based position (CR) works for me 95% of the time, however, there are always those unique cases that make you scratch your head.
 
The funny thing is that they teach you to force veneers on everybody but none of the guys that teach the course have veneers on themselves. :laugh: Sounds like all those Wall Street analysts on CNBC getting paid to hype up the market but their money is not where their mouth is.
 
LVI is an embarassment to the profession... hopefully they'll go bankrupt financially because they're already bankrupt morally.

You should have to turn in the title "Dr" at the start of the LVI course and replace it with "Scamartist" or "D!ckwad" or "Moneygrubber" at the completion of the course.

LVI dentists give us all a bad name....
 
KOM said:
Yeah, after you complete your ortho residency, you should totally, like, do this program because it will make you, like tons of money and then like, everyone will absolutely love you. OMG, like I hear so many great things!!!

I'm gonna do it after my pediatric residency because there's so many children out there with crappy baby teeth that like, need veneers in the meantime.

Where did this come from? Are you mocking someone? Nowhere in this thread did anyone talk like this. You are neither funny nor clever, and you have effectively added nothing to the discussion.
 
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Basically, they train your office to convince every patient that walks in the office to get a bunch veneers, even if they don't need it or there are much cheaper options for the same result. Everyone dentist that graduate from their $15k class is suddenly convinced they too can do extreme makeover cosmetic dentistry. It's like everyone that graduate from the Micheal Jordan Basketbal School suddenly feel like they can play great basketball, which is not true. I've personally seen some horrible cases and some questionable cases done by these guys. Search dentaltown to see all the back and forth arguments.


Have you taken courses? You are completely wrong and misleading. With any educational philosophy there are questions, positives and negatives. If you have a patient that needs their vertical opened >3mm, how do you treat them? If you have a patient with chronic headaches, bruxism, neck pain, how do you treat them? Dont mock what you dont understand. Last time I checked, there are no courses that cost 15k. I have seen patients with chronic pain, collapsed bites, and cosmetic issues rehabilitated with full mouth reconstuction based on neuromuscular principles taught at LVI. Beautiful results. How many full mouth rehabs have you treated, and where do you decide to build the bites to? Your posts about LVI are pure ignorance.
 
Have you taken courses? You are completely wrong and misleading. With any educational philosophy there are questions, positives and negatives. If you have a patient that needs their vertical opened >3mm, how do you treat them? If you have a patient with chronic headaches, bruxism, neck pain, how do you treat them? Dont mock what you dont understand. Last time I checked, there are no courses that cost 15k. I have seen patients with chronic pain, collapsed bites, and cosmetic issues rehabilitated with full mouth reconstuction based on neuromuscular principles taught at LVI. Beautiful results. How many full mouth rehabs have you treated, and where do you decide to build the bites to? Your posts about LVI are pure ignorance.
That's the problem, Ocean. It's all philosophy and principle. There's no science anywhere. Go do a Pubmed on neuromuscular occlusion and see what you get back. Additionally, if I go somewhere to take an expensive CE course in advanced restorative dentistry, I expect to spend at least as much time learning advanced restorative dentistry as I do how to hardball every patient who sits down into believing they have some imaginary occlusal imbalance (that most of them could happily have lived with the rest of their lives without any adverse effect at all) that they need to spend $30,000 to have "fixed."

I've never been to an LVI course, similar to how I've never been to Stalinist Russia. I feel very comfortable maintaining a critical opinion of both.
 
That's the problem, Ocean. It's all philosophy and principle. There's no science anywhere. Go do a Pubmed on neuromuscular occlusion and see what you get back. Additionally, if I go somewhere to take an expensive CE course in advanced restorative dentistry, I expect to spend at least as much time learning advanced restorative dentistry as I do how to hardball every patient who sits down into believing they have some imaginary occlusal imbalance (that most of them could happily have lived with the rest of their lives without any adverse effect at all) that they need to spend $30,000 to have "fixed."

I've never been to an LVI course, similar to how I've never been to Stalinist Russia. I feel very comfortable maintaining a critical opinion of both.

I have watched several patients in my practice have full mouth reconstruction based on the ideal neuromuscular position. Do you know the science behind a tense bite? Do you know the science behind EMG analysis of the muscle of mastication, and placing the mandible in the most comfortable muscular position? LVI is not about $30,000 treatment plans on every patient, and this is made quite clear in all of the courses. Sometimes TMD is corrected through enameloplasty. Your opinion is based on other opinions ,which many of them negative, with no clue about what LVI teaches. I have taken Pankey, Dawson, and LVI courses. Reconstruction through tense bites, or EMG analysis HAS THE MOST SCIENCE IMHO. Now I am not an LVI only doc when it comes to treating patients, it is just another option to provide patients with pain, or the need for reconstruction. It works and I have seen it work. Why don't you take a course before projecting clear cut ignorance based on anti-neuromuscular OPINION.

Your "stalinist" synonym is laughable.
 
I have watched several patients in my practice have full mouth reconstruction based on the ideal neuromuscular position. Do you know the science behind a tense bite? Do you know the science behind EMG analysis of the muscle of mastication, and placing the mandible in the most comfortable muscular position? LVI is not about $30,000 treatment plans on every patient, and this is made quite clear in all of the courses. Sometimes TMD is corrected through enameloplasty. Your opinion is based on other opinions ,which many of them negative, with no clue about what LVI teaches. I have taken Pankey, Dawson, and LVI courses. Reconstruction through tense bites, or EMG analysis HAS THE MOST SCIENCE IMHO. Now I am not an LVI only doc when it comes to treating patients, it is just another option to provide patients with pain, or the need for reconstruction. It works and I have seen it work. Why don't you take a course before projecting clear cut ignorance based on anti-neuromuscular OPINION.

Your "stalinist" synonym is laughable.
I wish I could come to your office for a day or two. Like I said, I haven't been through the LVI curriculum, but I've seen a lot of rotten fruit that has fallen from that tree. Maybe they're distorting what they've been taught, but like I've said before, every LVI office I've been inside has been about money first, patient care a distant second. Whether these offices are representative or not, I hope you can appreciate that my experiences haven't exactly turned me on to the place they all claim to model their practices after.

If you're able to apply the concepts in your practice, without the moral compromise I've seen too frequently and want no part of in my own professional life, I applaud you. As for the science, I can't find any. Show me a few decent articles and I'd be happy to reconsider; but just like you, Ocean, I can only work from what I know, and right now what I know about LVI isn't complimentary.
 
Obviously as a first year student I have very little to contribute to this discussion, but the argument of "all philosophical" doesn't make sense to me. If you're treating a patient with TMD and "science", as us products of Western Medicine call it, has not been successful, why not use a holistic approach to try and treat the patient? Like I said, I'm not even fully sure what the LVI teaches, but I'm all for treating the patient in ways other than "A=B so you HAVE TO do C."
 
Obviously as a first year student I have very little to contribute to this discussion, but the argument of "all philosophical" doesn't make sense to me. If you're treating a patient with TMD and "science", as us products of Western Medicine call it, has not been successful, why not use a holistic approach to try and treat the patient? Like I said, I'm not even fully sure what the LVI teaches, but I'm all for treating the patient in ways other than "A=B so you HAVE TO do C."

Ya aphitis! You first year student you. Get on board with option "C", especially if it makes you loads of cash man. Everybody gets "C"!!! Good times, veneers all around!
Who needs science anyway? What good has science done for us?🙄


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mzjo...B894567A&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=75
 
Abstracts of Select Studies Substantiating the Efficacy of Neuromuscular Dentistry, TENS, EMG, CMS and ESG.

Jankelson, Bernard, (1978) The Myo-monitor: Its use and abuse (I). Quintessence International No. 2: Report 1601, pp 47 51.
SUMMARY - The Myo-monitor transcutaneously stimulates the motor branches of the Vth and VIIth cranial nerves, relaxes the associated musculature, and then records an occlusal position that is compatible with a continued state of relaxation. Additional techniques have been developed for taking denture impressions (or relining old dentures) functional occlusal diagnosis, occlusal adjustment, and treatment of TMJ and MPD syndrome.

Hickman, David, M., Cramer, Richard, Stauber, William T. (1993) The effect of four jaw relations on electromyographic activity in human masticatory muscles. Archs Oral Biol 38:3, pp 261-264.
SUMMARY - Significant differences were found in the electromyographic (EMG) activation between the masseter and temporalis muscles for the leaf gauge (LG), manually manipulated (CR) and neuromuscular (NM) bite positions during maximal static clench. The LG position consistently demonstrated the lowest EMG activity, while the NM position displayed the highest degree of muscle activity. Similarly, the ratio of the masseter/temporalis EMG activity during maximal clench was lower for the LG and CR positions and highest for the NM position. These data indicate that the NM position produced the greatest total muscle recruitment, with more masseter involvement during maximal clench, and enabled the subjects to generate greater clenching forces in the NM position as compared to the LG and CR positions.

Cooper, Barry C. (1997) The role of bioelectric instrumentation in the documentation of management of temporomandibular disorders. Oral Surg Oral Med Oral Pathol Oral Radiol Endod 83:1, pp 91-100
SUMMARY - Temporomandibular disorders (TMDs) can affect the form and function of the temporomandibular joint, masticatory muscles and dental apparatus. Electronic measurement of mandibular movement and masticatory muscle function provides objective data that are defined by commonly accepted parameters in patients with TMDs; these data can then be used to design and monitor therapy and enhance treatment therapy. In this study, data on 3681 patients with TMD are presented, including electronic test data on 1182 treated patients with TMDs. Electronic jaw tracking was used to record mandibular movement and to compare the presenting and therapeutic dental occlusal positions.

Electromyography was used to analyze the resting status of masticatory muscles and occlusal function at presentation and after therapeutic intervention. Transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation therapy relaxed masticatory muscles and aided in the determination of a therapeutic occlusal position. The data show a positive correlation between the clinical symptoms of TMD and the presenting occlusion, accompanied by muscle activity. A strong positive correlation also appears to exist between a therapeutic change in the dental occlusion to a neuromuscularly healthy position with use of a precision orthotic appliance and the significant relief of symptoms within 1 month and at 3 months.

Jankelson, Robert (1990) Analysis of maximal electromyographic activity of the masseter and anterior temporalis muscles in Myocentric and Habitual Centric in Temporomandibular Joint and Musculoskeletal Dysfunction. Front. Oral Physiol., Karger, Basal, Vol. 7, pp 83-97
SUMMARY - A computer review of maximal bite integrated EMG values for 46 consecutive patients referred to a clinical practice for treatment of TMJ/MSD was analyzed for data correlation. The 46 patients included 37 females and 9 males. The average ages of the patients were 42 and 46 years, respectively, for females and males. The patients all displayed 3 or more of the standardized symptoms in the Kinnie-Funt TMJ profile [23]. Only those patients with EMG/CMS profiles indicating a positive rationale for orthosis therapy were selected. This meant that the patients had either an excess of 2.0 mm of freeway space, or had an anterior/posterior discrepancy between neuromuscular and habitual trajectory of closure that precluded selective grinding of the teeth.

(1) Analysis of 46 temporomandibular joint/musculoskeletal dysfunction patients showed masseter EMG activity significantly lower than anterior temporalis EMG activity during maximal bite to habitual occlusion. Since the masseter muscle is the primary force muscle, while the anterior temporalis is the primary posturing muscle, this appears to be a consistent finding in temporomandibular joint/musculoskeletal dysfunction patients with nonoptimal occlusion.

(2) The combined integrated EMG in the symptomatic temporomandibular joint/musculoskeletal dysfunction patient is significantly diminished when the patient maximally occludes in the habitual occlusion as opposed to the myocentric position. Restoration of the occlusion to a neuromuscular myocentric resulted in a 72.2% improvement in motor unit recruitment. The marked increase in motor unit recruitment and the significant reduction in the number of symptoms as reported by the patients in this study, suggests that the myocentric position is a more efficacious functional position for motor muscle recruitment than the existing habitual occlusion in the musculoskeletal dysfunction patient.

(3) The study supports previous studies showing reduced EMG activity during maximal bite in temporomandibular joint and musculoskeletal dysfunction patients. Therefore, integrated EMG of maximal function appears to be a reliable, quantitative modality to identify functional disorders of the masticatory system.

(4) Integrated EMG of maximal bite effort can be used as a quantitative means to monitor patient progress. There appears to be a significant correlation by the increase in maximal EMG activity of the masseter and anterior temporalis, and the reduction in the number of patient-reported symptoms.

(5) Providing a neuromuscular myocentric occlusal position for the temporomandibular joint/musculoskeletal dysfunction patients allowed markedly increased motor unit recruitment during maximal bite. The increase in function correspondingly resulted in concomitant reduction in the patient symptom index.

(6) Treatment to the myocentric position resulted in significantly more symmetrical recruitment of masseter and anterior temporalis motor units. The temporomandibular joint/musculoskeletal dysfunction patient appears to have a greater asymmetry of muscle function during maximal bite to the habitual occlusal position. Restoration of the temporomandibular joint/musculoskeletal patient to a neuromuscular myocentric position resulted in significant improvement of muscle recruitment and symmetry.

To conclude, this study of 46 consecutive clinical dysfunction patients confirmed the findings of Moller, Erikkson, Sheikholeslam, Ruse, Molin, Pruim, Jarabak, Kydd, Bigland, Lous, Prayer-Galletti, and Pantaleo and others in support of maximal bite EMG analysis for diagnosis and temporomandibular joint/musculoskeletal dysfunction.

The restoration of the dysfunctional patient to a neuromuscular myocentric occlusion results in significantly increased function and synergy of the anterior temporalis and masseter muscles.



Coy, Richard E., Flocken, John E., Adib, Fray (1991) Musculoskeletal Etiology and Therapy of Craniomandibular Pain and Dysfunction. Cranio Clinics Intl, Williams and Wilkens, Baltimore, pp 163-173.
SUMMARY - The investigators sent questionnaires and guidelines for submission of case histories to Fellows of the International College of Craniomandibular Orthopedics, who are geographically dispersed over the United States. The practitioners were requested to supply data and case histories on patients who were treated specifically for Craniomandibular pain or dysfunction. Sixty-eight case histories received from 20 practitioners that met the study guidelines were included.

Electronically derived measurement provides an objective quantitative database for diagnosing the existence and extent of myostatic contracture and skeletal malrelation. Compilation of the electronically derived data, correlated with the subjective evaluations of both patient and therapist, establish the existence of significant skeletal malrelation of the mandible to the cranium and consequent myostatic contracture in the pain and dysfunction population. The data reported in these case histories indicate that a common measurable etiology is responsible for the many ostensibly diverse manifestations of craniomandibular pain and dysfunction. The diagnostic validity and usefulness of the electronically derived quantitative data are supported by the correlative subjective perception by the patient of alleviation of symptoms in response to the correction of skeletal malrelation and the consequent reduction of muscle tension (table 7). The course of treatment provides rapid initial palliation followed by long-term resolution as a result of orthopedic correction of skeletal malrelation.

The data clearly established that in the patient population under study:

1. The average electromyograph activity with the patient at rest decreased substantially in the left and right anterior temporalis and masseter muscles after treatment.

2. The average electromyograph activity with the patient clenching increased substantially in the left and right anterior temporalis and masseter muscles after treatment.

3. Following the orthopedic correction of skeletal malrelation, over half of the patients had complete alleviation of symptoms, with the remaining patients experiencing a substantial reduction in the number of their symptoms.

The continuing positive responses to this noninvasive treatment based on quantitative as well as subjective diagnosis indicate the need in every case of craniomandibular pain or dysfunction to rule in or rule out musculoskeletal dysfunction as the most common underlying etiologic factor in most aspects of craniomandibular pain and dysfunction.

In cases in which the data rule out existing musculoskeletal dysfunction as a possible etiology, the patient may then be referred to other appropriate specialties such as neurology, otolaryngology, orthopedics, or psychiatry with the assurance to that specialty that the etiologic possibility of musculoskeletal dysfunction has been explored and ruled out.

Dickerson, William G., Chan, Clayton A., Mazzocco, Michael W. (2000) Concepts of Occlusion, The Scientific Approach: Neuromuscular Occlusion, Signature ,Vol. 7, No. 2; pp 14-17.
SUMMARY - The neuromuscular occlusal approach is based on the precepts of science. We now have scientific instrumentation that can record and verify the observations and symptoms presented by our patients. Neuromuscular dentistry is the science-based philosophy that has brought further understanding of muscle physiology into clinical dentistry. Many of the questions have now been clearly answered, allowing the neuromuscular dentist to investigate further, opening doors that were previously closed in the realm of dental diagnosis and treatment.

The authors believe that everyone is trying to accomplish the same thing – that which is best for our patients. They are happy for everyone who is comfortable with what he or she is doing. For those clinicians uncomfortable with their occlusal expertise, however, and also for those with open minds and the desire to learn as much about the stomatognathic system as possible, this aspect of dentistry may be as transforming as it has been for the authors.

Lynn, Jack M., Mazzocco, Mike W., Miloser, Stephen J., Zullo, Thomas, (1992) Diagnosis and Treatment of Craniocervical Pain and Headache based on Neuromuscular Parameters, American Journal of Pain Management, 2:3, pp 143-151.
SUMMARY - There is increasing evidence supporting the premise that hypertonicity within facial muscles is an etiologic factor for some chronic headache patients. This muscular hypertonicity is the result of neuromuscular imbalances within the head and neck. Through the analysis of electromyograph (EMG) data, it is possible to construct an intraoral orthosis which creates neuromuscular balance and subsequently relieves the pain.

This study attempted to identify (i) the relationship of EMG-measured dysfunction to reported craniocervical pain and (ii) the effectiveness of EMG-based orthoses on reversing myospastic conditions. Results of the study (N=203) indicate a significant (p<.0001) decrease in muscular myospasm at rest and a significant (p<.0001) increase in muscular activity during function following treatment with EMG-based orthoses. Reported craniocervical pain was significantly reduced. Results of this study support the hypothesis that creation of a physiologic neurovasomuscular envelope of craniocervical motion allows reduction of muscular hypertonicity resulting in reduction of pain. Furthermore, utilization of electromyography is a valuable tool during assessment and treatment of chronic facial pain patients.

Chan, C.A., “Applying the Neuromuscular Principles in TMD and Orthodontics”, J. Am. Orthodontic Soc., pp20-29, Spring, 2004
SUMMARY - Neuromuscular dentistry goes beyond traditional dentistry in that it includes consideration of the “physiologic posture” of the mandible. Determining habitual posture vs. physiologic posture requires evaluation of the muscles, joints and nerves involved in mandibular posture and function in addition to the teeth. Today’s computerized measuring and recording instrumentation, together with an understanding of neuromuscular principles, give dentists the ability to be true “physicians of the mouth.” Muscles cannot be evaluated by radiographic analysis alone. With bioinstrumentation it is possible to determine a proper resting jaw position that positively affects the facial, head, and neck muscles and the teeth as well as the joints. A case study is presented in great detail describing how a severe TMD case had failed to respond to long and frustrating traditional dental therapy, but was then resolved through the application of neuromuscular principles and evaluation. Following provisional treatment that proved a symptom-free mandibular position, the case was permanently finished to that position with orthodontic treatment.

Cooper, BC, Parameters of an Optimal Physiological State of the Masticatory System: The Results of a Survey of Practitioners Using Computerized Measurement Devices, J. Craniomandibular Practice, 22:3, pp. 220-233, July 2004
SUMMARY - While bioelectronic instruments have been available for nearly 30 years to assist dentists in day-to-day evaluations of patient’s masticatory systems, little guidance has been published to support physiological norms or ideals. An electronic questionnaire was developed and administered to an international group of dentists familiar with the use of bioelectronic instrumentation. Respondents were asked to provide feedback on the norms or ideal parameters of jaw movement, masticatory muscle function with electromyography, and joint sounds through electrosonography that they use in guiding evaluation and treatment of patients with temporomandibular disorders , neuromuscular occlusion, and orthodontics. Surveys were collated to determine areas of consensus. Out of 150 surveys, 55 responses were received from dentists representing nine different countries. Sixty percent of the respondents reported treating more than 150 cases in the past five years using bioelectronic testing. While experience ranged from 2-30 years with the different types of devices, average experience was longer with mandibular/jaw tracking (mean 15.3 years) and electromyography (mean 14.1 years) than with electrosonography (mean 7.0 years). Parameters proposed as norms or ideals for electromyographic rest and clench values, and mandibular tracking (velocity, freeway space, and trajectory to closure) were very consistent. Although a smaller number of respondents reported utilization of electrosonography, their criteria for data significance and tissue-type genesis of joint sounds were consistent. While the intra-patient variability may limit the use of bioelectronic instruments, the current study demonstrates that through decades of experience, dentists have independently arrived at very consistent definitions of an ideal physiology that can be used to guide treatment.

Cooper, BC, Kleinberg, I, Establishment of a temporomandibular physiological state with neuromuscular orthosis treatment affects reduction of TMD symptoms in 313 patients. J. Craniomandibular Practice, 2008; 26(2) 104-115
SUMMARY - The objective of this investigation was to test the hypothesis that alteration of the occlusions of patients suffering from temporomandibular disorders (TMD) to one that is neuromuscularly, rather than anatomically based, would result in reduction or resolution of symptoms that characterize the TMD condition. This hypothesis was proven correct in the present study, where 313 patients with TMD symptoms were examined for neuromuscular dysfunction, using several electronic instruments before and after treatment intervention. Such instrumentation enabled electromyographic (EMG) measurement of the activities of the masticatory muscles during rest and in function, tracking and assessment of various movements of the mandible, and listening for noises made by the TMJ during movement of the mandible. Ultra low frequency and low amplitude, transcutaneous electrical neural stimulation (TENS) of the mandibular division of the trigeminal nerve (V) was used to relax the masticatory muscles and to facilitate location of a physiological rest position for the mandible. TENS also made it possible to select positions of the mandible that were most relaxed above and anterior to the rest position when the mandible was moved in an arc that began at rest position. Once identified, the neuromuscular occlusal position was recorded in the form of a bite registration, which was subsequently used to fabricate a removable mandibular orthotic appliance that could be worn continuously by the patient. Such a device facilitated retention and stabilization of the mandible in its new-found physiological position, which was confirmed by follow up testing. Three months of full-time appliance usage showed that the new therapeutic positions achieved remained intact and were associated with improved resting and functioning activities of the masticatory muscles. Patients reported overwhelming symptom relief, including reduction of headaches and other pain symptoms. Experts consider relief of symptoms as the gold standard for assessment of effectiveness of TMD treatment. It is evident that this outcome has been achieved in this study and that taking patients from a less to a more physiological state is an effective means for reducing or eliminating TMD symptoms, especially those related to pain, most notably, headaches.
 
Ya aphitis! You first year student you. Get on board with option "C", especially if it makes you loads of cash man. Everybody gets "C"!!! Good times, veneers all around!
Who needs science anyway? What good has science done for us?🙄


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mzjo...B894567A&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=75

You seem to have such deep input.

There are many patients out there with collapsed bites, and the need for full mouth rehabilitation. Neuromuscular rehab is a measurable way to determine where the mandible should be during the restorative process. The science is there. I am speaking from experience, not "He said she said," or "the LVI practice I saw was ......."

Not everyone who learns about neuromuscular dentistry is about overtreatment. Sure there are some bad apples out there, but that is with any CE philosophy. DO you really think a swallow bite, or manipulating the mandible into supposed CR is more scientific than an EMG based or tense bite?

You might want to open your mind a little, you might learn something.
 
You seem to have such deep input.

There are many patients out there with collapsed bites, and the need for full mouth rehabilitation. Neuromuscular rehab is a measurable way to determine where the mandible should be during the restorative process. The science is there. I am speaking from experience, not "He said she said," or "the LVI practice I saw was ......."

Not everyone who learns about neuromuscular dentistry is about overtreatment. Sure there are some bad apples out there, but that is with any CE philosophy. DO you really think a swallow bite, or manipulating the mandible into supposed CR is more scientific than an EMG based or tense bite?

You might want to open your mind a little, you might learn something.


Thank you. I am learning.

On a side note.
Are there any accredited prostho residencies that teach NM rehab? All the prostho peeps chime in plz...

Penn and Teller was a joke, a haha funny funny type of joke- you know the kind. I really think "deep input" should be saved for academic discourse (of which this is not), not interweb forum-fun chitchat.


I am glad that you don't over treat though. Kudos to you. 👍
 
I am thinking of suing my dental school for malpractice. For a few hundred grands I spent with them, how come they deprived me of the simple knowledge of neuromuscular rehab that would have made me tons of money?😡
 
NM in the hands of many LVI practioners is like giving Iran a nuclear weapon. Yes, I'm sure there's science behind it but basically you can hook up anyone to one of their TENS machines and it'll tell you that the bite is 1-5mm from where it actually is which is basicially justification for doing full mouth rehabs on ANYONE. I'm a follower of Frank Spear and Dawson who pretty much discount much of the science behind NM. I'm sure there are certain cases where NM is warranted. I don't have a problem with NM as much as I do LVI and the when they advertise themselves to be better than other dentists. As for the science, You cannot 'paralyze' the pterygoid muscles which are located intraorally which pretty much negates the science behind it. Besides, I don't want to get into a whole debate about the science of NM. I sat through 8 hour presentation with LVI guru Dickerson and it was 1 hour science and 7 hours of a sale pitch... he missed his calling as a used car salesman. The dentists who gravitate to LVI are morally bankrupt. Gordon Christensen says there are a significant number of lawsuits pending amongst LVI dentists as their failure rate is much higher. One of the biggest jams you can get yourself into is trying to Tx a patient and them having TMD AFTER you restore them which can result when you open them up 5+ mm and give them horse's teeth.
Basically my belief is that LVI sucks(no so much NM) and any young, self-respecting dentist should stay far away from these dipsticks. There's lots of great CE out there so invest in yourself but do it wisely.
 
So if I understand NM, they hook you up to a TENS machine and then what? They try to find the spot where your muscles of mastication fire least? -and then restore you to that spot?
 
NM in the hands of many LVI practioners is like giving Iran a nuclear weapon. Yes, I'm sure there's science behind it but basically you can hook up anyone to one of their TENS machines and it'll tell you that the bite is 1-5mm from where it actually is which is basicially justification for doing full mouth rehabs on ANYONE. I'm a follower of Frank Spear and Dawson who pretty much discount much of the science behind NM. I'm sure there are certain cases where NM is warranted. I don't have a problem with NM as much as I do LVI and the when they advertise themselves to be better than other dentists. As for the science, You cannot 'paralyze' the pterygoid muscles which are located intraorally which pretty much negates the science behind it. Besides, I don't want to get into a whole debate about the science of NM. I sat through 8 hour presentation with LVI guru Dickerson and it was 1 hour science and 7 hours of a sale pitch... he missed his calling as a used car salesman. The dentists who gravitate to LVI are morally bankrupt. Gordon Christensen says there are a significant number of lawsuits pending amongst LVI dentists as their failure rate is much higher. One of the biggest jams you can get yourself into is trying to Tx a patient and them having TMD AFTER you restore them which can result when you open them up 5+ mm and give them horse's teeth.
Basically my belief is that LVI sucks(no so much NM) and any young, self-respecting dentist should stay far away from these dipsticks. There's lots of great CE out there so invest in yourself but do it wisely.
Well, *I* can paralyze the pterygoid muscles, but I have to paralyze everything else along with them, and a paralyzed general anesthetic feels like overkill for occlusal diagnosis. Then again, maybe I shouldn't risk giving certain folks any ideas. 😉
 
So if I understand NM, they hook you up to a TENS machine and then what? They try to find the spot where your muscles of mastication fire least? -and then restore you to that spot?

Haha, I tried hooking myself up to a TENS and attempted to target the elevator muscles. It was such a traumatic experience that I cannot imagine hooking up somebody who has little to no knowledge of the scientific process.

Then again, I probably was a) doing it wrong and b) had my settings off.

I imagine this is a very difficult repeatable place to put restored patients, as opposed to CR. I find that CR is very repeatable and works fine in 95% of cases I have done. Then again, 95% of MICP single crowns work just fine as well. Maybe then that 5% should get NM Tx?

Again, I am not disparaging the NM philosophy. Many consider CR to be a philosophy as well. Neither are 100% scientific fact.

Should we ostracize the NM dentists because they work within a different scientific philosophy? Many scientific achievements were ostracized from the beginning by "established science." It took over 50 years to get the Nobel prize to Rous for discovering that cancer could be transferred by a virus (oncoviruses)... he was ostracized for years for this belief.

It's what works for you as a clinician and your patients...
 
Haha, I tried hooking myself up to a TENS and attempted to target the elevator muscles. It was such a traumatic experience that I cannot imagine hooking up somebody who has little to no knowledge of the scientific process.

Then again, I probably was a) doing it wrong and b) had my settings off.

I imagine this is a very difficult repeatable place to put restored patients, as opposed to CR. I find that CR is very repeatable and works fine in 95% of cases I have done. Then again, 95% of MICP single crowns work just fine as well. Maybe then that 5% should get NM Tx?

Again, I am not disparaging the NM philosophy. Many consider CR to be a philosophy as well. Neither are 100% scientific fact.

Should we ostracize the NM dentists because they work within a different scientific philosophy? Many scientific achievements were ostracized from the beginning by "established science." It took over 50 years to get the Nobel prize to Rous for discovering that cancer could be transferred by a virus (oncoviruses)... he was ostracized for years for this belief.

It's what works for you as a clinician and your patients...

this is why I wanted the discussion to separate the NM science from LVI. If I was an ethical practioner using NM as my foundation for doing what I do I'd be deeply concerned about the way LVI is using the science haphazardly to base their aggressive Tx plans to do a full mouth rehab on every patient regardless of age that walks in the door. It really is embarassing to the whole profession to see the crap being done by LVI grads. I've seen 22 year olds with nothing wrong and no pain being told they need 28 crowns because their 'bite is off'. If I based my philosophy off of NM I'd be outing these LVI quacks louder than the non-NM guys in dentistry.
 
Uncle!

All I am saying is that if you have not taken any Core course, or learned about K7 analysis, then you are not seeing the whole picture. Are there LVI grads overtreating and overselling inappropriate treatment? Sure. Are there Pankey and Dawson Dentists doing the same? Im sure. A neuromuscular rehabilitation, when needed, is repeatable and very accurate. Measurements are taken throughout the process, and if done correctly are maintained. LVI is not just about full mouth reconstruction. Skills of preparation, temporization, design of esthetics are all incorporated. There ARE patients out there that want and need full mouth rehabilitation. Some that dont need any change in their verticals. There are patient out there that may walk into your office and want 20 veneers/porcelain restorations. These patients dont want to come back and forth for multiple appointments to complete treatment. Would you be comfortable prepping, impressing, and temporizing 20 teeth in 3-5 hours? These courses prepare you for those patients. Im not talking about 22 year olds who just need braces. You guys can continue to bash based on the bad apples out there. There is lots of usefull training within the LVI program. I mean there are guys like Ron Jackson and Kit Weathers teaching courses out there. I assume these guys are crooks with little valuable information too.
 
uncle!

All i am saying is that if you have not taken any core course, or learned about k7 analysis, then you are not seeing the whole picture. Are there lvi grads overtreating and overselling inappropriate treatment? Sure. Are there pankey and dawson dentists doing the same? Im sure. A neuromuscular rehabilitation, when needed, is repeatable and very accurate. Measurements are taken throughout the process, and if done correctly are maintained. Lvi is not just about full mouth reconstruction. Skills of preparation, temporization, design of esthetics are all incorporated. There are patients out there that want and need full mouth rehabilitation. Some that dont need any change in their verticals. There are patient out there that may walk into your office and want 20 veneers/porcelain restorations. these patients dont want to come back and forth for multiple appointments to complete treatment. Would you be comfortable prepping, impressing, and temporizing 20 teeth in 3-5 hours? these courses prepare you for those patients. Im not talking about 22 year olds who just need braces. You guys can continue to bash based on the bad apples out there. There is lots of usefull training within the lvi program. I mean there are guys like ron jackson and kit weathers teaching courses out there. I assume these guys are crooks with little valuable information too.



no.
 
I believe that CE courses should be used as tools in your arsenal. Some things that are said, you may not agree with and there may be things that you will use every day. Focusing your practice on a CE course that you just took is ridiculous. As for the idea of NM, I believe that it is a positive thing to know. now will you use it everyday? That is for you to decide. As for me no. CR works on a majority of the cases perfectly. However there are cases that it doesn't. In those cases it would be advantageous to know the concept of NM. Now if you feel comfortable treating a patient using NM to determine the vertical dimension, then great its is worth a shot. If you have taken the course but aren't confident in your ability and knowledge then simply refer to a more established practitioner in the concept of NM. I cannot nor should anyone dismiss the concept of NM. It should be a tool in your arsenal. As for the whole LVI overtreatment, that is in the hands of the practitioner. Yes there are dentist that have LVI training that want 28 crowns or 20 veneers, but there are dentist that didn't go to LVI that want to do the same thing. It is all about the practitioner and their morals. Yes it is probably an injustice for patients to have to research their dentist but with the information age people should probably research everything the do, whether dentist, physician, or consumer products.

To get off the soap box, I don't agree with overtreatment that our profession is seemingly growing accustom to, but as to concepts that are taught I believe that we as professionals are obligated to have knowledge on all concepts regarding the oral cavity, whether we agree with them or not.
 
doesn't one, or both teach that if you extract for ortho you basically kill the patient
 
With the cost of the course being so high.....it puts pressure on the dentist to oversell tx. kind of follows the saying "if you have a hammer everything will start looking like a nail".
Another issue from my own personal experience is maintaing those pt's. TMD should be viewed as a systemic condition and those pts are the hardest to tx and maintain. One would be married to these cases for life.
 
You seem to have such deep input.

There are many patients out there with collapsed bites, and the need for full mouth rehabilitation. Neuromuscular rehab is a measurable way to determine where the mandible should be during the restorative process. The science is there. I am speaking from experience, not "He said she said," or "the LVI practice I saw was ......."

Not everyone who learns about neuromuscular dentistry is about overtreatment. Sure there are some bad apples out there, but that is with any CE philosophy. DO you really think a swallow bite, or manipulating the mandible into supposed CR is more scientific than an EMG based or tense bite?

You might want to open your mind a little, you might learn something.

What about referring a patient with a collapsed bite to your local orthodontist to treat the problem and not mask the problem?? I understand that this is not always an option for every patient, but it is the dentist's responsibility to offer all options to their patients regarding full mouth rehabilitation. You cannot simply say, "you have a problem with your bite, so I am going to add things to your teeth and/or grind your teeth away to help you bite better." There is a reason that an individual has the occlusion problem they have, and there is no better person to help with diagnosis and treatment planning than an orthodontist who spends every day of their life treating occlusion related problems. Just saying....
 
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