What is up with the future of dentistry?!!!

[delicious]

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Is anybody else out there interested in going into research? As each day of D-school passes, I grow more interested in specializing and becoming part of a dental school's faculty. Not sure if I'd want to get a PhD and do more basic science research, or if I want to just stick to more clinical stuff. I've done some research before, and have gotten really excited by some projects. I also like the idea of making a contribution to the field of dentistry. 😀 😛

I wanted to start this thread because I feel that on SDN there's a real pooh-poohing of the importance of research in the field of dentistry. 🙁 In the past, I've been really saddened by senior SDN members making comments like : "the real advances in dentistry come from dentists in general practice looking for more effective ways to perform procedures." Although I acknowledge the general point about efficiency being made there, I feel that particular statement is pretty naïve. Research done by PhDs, DDS/DMDs, MDs has made and continues to make a huge contribution to the field of dentistry (in efficiency, quality of care, what can be treated). Dentistry isn't like optometry or plumbing. (no offense to optometrists)

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure a bunch of you know you want to be clinicians and that's awesome. 👍 😍 I just wanted to start a thread to support those with these interests similar to mine. And to praise schools like Harvard and UMichigan which support this philosophy of academic scholarship.

 

[Dentist 2 be]

Is anybody else out there interested in going into research? As each day of D-school passes, I grow more interested in specializing and becoming part of a dental school's faculty. Not sure if I'd want to get a PhD and do more basic science research, or if I want to just stick to more clinical stuff. I've done some research before, and have gotten really excited by some projects. I also like the idea of making a contribution to the field of dentistry. 😀 😛

I wanted to start this thread because I feel that on SDN there's a real pooh-poohing of the importance of research in the field of dentistry. 🙁 In the past, I've been really saddened by senior SDN members making comments like : "the real advances in dentistry come from dentists in general practice looking for more effective ways to perform procedures." Although I acknowledge the general point about efficiency being made there, I feel that particular statement is pretty naïve. Research done by PhDs, DDS/DMDs, MDs has made and continues to make a huge contribution to the field of dentistry (in both efficiency & quality of care). Dentistry isn't like optometry or plumbing. (no offense to optometrists)

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure a bunch of you know you want to be clinicians and that's awesome. 👍 😍 I just wanted to start a thread to support those with these interests similar to mine. And to praise schools like Harvard and UMichigan which support this philosophy of academic scholarship.

I think Columbia also has a strong research aspect tied into their curriculum.

 

[delicious]

I think Columbia also has a strong research aspect tied into their curriculum.

🙂 Just mentioned harvard and Umichigan because i feel those are two of the strongest. Good others are: columbia (like you said), UWashington (?), UPenn, UCSF.....

Oh, and I'm not trying to start a ranking thread like that or anything. Certainly some schools are more blessed with financial resources to pursue research than others. I just want to say it's important dentistry doesn't become considered like a basic trade (by the public, and especially by its practicioners). Dentistry (or dental medicine!!) is waay deeper than that.

 

[USUaggie]

Maryland has a pretty good program, and UCSF is #1 for NIH grants. I'm somewhat interested but Loma Linda's program isn't all that great. I figure once I'm in school I'll know where my interests lie. Delicious, are you sure you're 17?

 

[delicious]

Maryland has a pretty good program, and UCSF is #1 for NIH grants. I'm somewhat interested but Loma Linda's program isn't all that great. I figure once I'm in school I'll know where my interests lie. Delicious, are you sure you're 17?

Yes, i'm sure it seems unusual that a 17-year-old could be in dental school, and furthermore, have such an interest in research. 😀

Oh yeah, and I have heard about Maryland having strong research. Never visited Loma Linda, but i'm sure there's ways to get involved if you become interested.

 

[delicious]

Changed title of thread. Too bad not so many views on this topic. I guess dental research isn't very sexy.

 

[The Godfather]

Yes, i'm sure it seems unusual that a 17-year-old could be in dental school, and furthermore, have such an interest in research. 😀

Oh yeah, and I have heard about Maryland having strong research. Never visited Loma Linda, but i'm sure there's ways to get involved if you become interested.

17. So much that has been going on the past few months makes sense now. 😀

 

[J2AZ]

so Delicioso what school are you attending?

 

[dentist_to_be?]

Yes, i'm sure it seems unusual that a 17-year-old could be in dental school, and furthermore, have such an interest in research. 😀

Oh .

YOU Are 17 😱 😱 😕 and going to dental school... I must have missed something 😛

are you applying to BA/DDS 7 year program? or four year program...??

 

[delicious]

17. So much that has been going on the past few months makes sense now. 😀

Are you implying that my posts are somehow immature?!! REVENGE!!! 😡 😡



I'm 17 in mind, 22 in body (this old, decrepid body) 😛 😀 Oh, and I'm from Maine.

Anyone else interested in participating in research during d-school?!

 

[dentist_to_be?]

Are you implying that my posts are somehow immature?!! REVENGE!!! 😡 😡



I'm 17 in mind, 22 in body (this old, decrepid body) 😛 😀 Oh, and I'm from Maine.

Anyone else interested in participating in research during d-school?!

ohhhhhhh...now it makes sense, lol

i am interested in research, might do a phD, but ill have to see, it means 7 MORE years of school 😱 😱 😱

 

[delicious]

ohhhhhhh...now it makes sense, lol

i am interested in research, might do a phD, but ill have to see, it means 7 MORE years of school 😱 😱 😱

How do you figure 7 years?! Do you mean 4 yrs dds/dmd + 3 yrs PhD? Cause 3 yrs really isn't that bad. Plus the end product is you = super smartie , capable of doing lots of neat important stuff. 😀

 

[Utes]

If you're interested in research, you should check out some of the things going on at the Forsyth Institute in boston.
http://www.forsyth.org/

For example:
Wednesday, March 30, 2005
FORSYTH SCIENTISTS FIND BLUE LIGHT SUPPRESSES ORAL PATHOGENS; Suggest possibility of using light to combat gum disease; envision handheld device
Boston--Scientists at The Forsyth Institute have found that blue light can be used to selectively suppress certain bacteria commonly associated with destructive gum disease. The research, published in the April Journal of Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy, suggests that light in the blue region of the visible spectrum might be useful in preventing, controlling or treating periodontitis—an oral infection that can lead to loss of bone and teeth.

 

[hockeydentist]

How do you figure 7 years?! Do you mean 4 yrs dds/dmd + 3 yrs PhD? Cause 3 yrs really isn't that bad. Plus the end product is you = super smartie , capable of doing lots of neat important stuff. 😀

A typical ph D program is 5-6 years. Those of you that think a phD can get done in 3 years are a little misinformed.

 

[ljca]

This thread got me wondering how schools rank in terms of funding, and interestingly, many dental schools that usually come to mind first for research, such as harvard, columbia, etc.... don't always rank as high as you'd think in terms of funding.

Top Ten Dental Institution NIDCR Grant Recipients for 2004:

1. UCSF
2. UMich
3. Forsyth
4. U Rochester
5. UW
6. UF
7. UCLA
8. U Minnesota
9. UNC
10. Univ. of Texas

Harvard ranks a shocking 34!

complete listing:
http://www.nidcr.nih.gov/Funding/DentalSchools/GrantstoDentalInstitutions2004.htm

 

[delicious]

A typical ph D program is 5-6 years. Those of you that think a phD can get done in 3 years are a little misinformed.

See, this is exactly why I started this thread!! I said 3 yrs because I was trying to work out dentist2be?'s math. I couldn't imagine a 7yr long PhD.

I always thought PhD's were around the 4yr range - anyone else have some input?!!

 

[delicious]

This thread got me wondering how schools rank in terms of funding, and interestingly, many dental schools that usually come to mind first for research, such as harvard, columbia, etc.... don't always rank as high as you'd think in terms of funding.

Top Ten Dental Institution NIDCR Grant Recipients for 2004:

1. UCSF
2. UMich
3. Forsyth
4. U Rochester
5. UW
6. UF
7. UCLA
8. U Minnesota
9. UNC
10. Univ. of Texas

Harvard ranks a shocking 34!

complete listing:
http://www.nidcr.nih.gov/Funding/DentalSchools/GrantstoDentalInstitutions2004.htm

Thanks for the link ljca!! I didn't realize that the Eastman School in Rochester was soo up there. And I've always been confused about Harvard's research funding. Forsyth is a private research institution, but most of the researchers there are affiliated with Harvard in some way. I really don't understand the exact nature of the relationship. But I do know that a lot of Harvard students pursue research projects with people at Forsyth - so that's a great opportunity/resource for them.

 

[dentist_to_be?]

See, this is exactly why I started this thread!! I said 3 yrs because I was trying to work out dentist2be?'s math. I couldn't imagine a 7yr long PhD.

I always thought PhD's were around the 4yr range - anyone else have some input?!!

Well at UMaryland,... I spoke to the head of the DDS/PhD program, and he said it was a seven year program. First two years are dental school, then you leave dental school and work on your phD for the next three years, and then last two years, you finish up dentistry. He said most people finish in three years, I guess they can do it in three years because they get credits from dental school...

Here are website outlining the DDS/phD

http://www.dental.umaryland.edu/admissions/ddsphd/index.html

 

[dentist_to_be?]

How do you figure 7 years?! Do you mean 4 yrs dds/dmd + 3 yrs PhD? Cause 3 yrs really isn't that bad. Plus the end product is you = super smartie , capable of doing lots of neat important stuff. 😀

Seven years more of school... i meant from undergrad... you are going to be in school for seven more years, including DDS (4 years) and PhD (3 Years)

 

[delicious]

Well at UMaryland,... I spoke to the head of the DDS/PhD program, and he said it was a seven year program. First two years are dental school, then you leave dental school and work on your phD for the next three years, and then last two years, you finish up dentistry. He said most people finish in three years, I guess they can do it in three years because they get credits from dental school...

Here are website outlining the DDS/phD

http://www.dental.umaryland.edu/admissions/ddsphd/index.html

Thanks for the link! I always thought a PhD was 3-4 yrs. I've never heard of anyone doing a 6 yr PhD like hockeydentist said, unless the person really screwed up, or they wanted to continue on becaue they loved the specific project.

 

[ecdoesit]

The combined program is not just simple math 4+3.
Usually students take additional classes in their first two years
and take off during their D3 to go into research for 3 yrs.
and then go back to the clinics for their last 2 yrs and finish up whatever they have to.

imo, the program is over-rated. do we really need a phd to do research? the latter two years will be problematic cos you will be behind with ur area of interest for 2 yrs! given how fast things are developing in dentistry. you are done.

but, if u want to be a dean, you could think about this program since it seems everybody in high position is dds/phd.

hehe, ironically, i m a dds/ms student. and taking 8 additional units this quarter! and i dont recommend people getting in the program, yet i have at least 4 more classmates up for the challenge.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Some schools (great links have already been posted) have really strong research programs and/or DSTP (dental scientist training programs).

At other schools it is non-existant.

I'm grateful for those who choose to go into research, similar to those who pursue academia (either right out of school or later down the road).

One of my classmates is leaving shortly for a two-month stint at the NIH, and I applaud his convictions and interests.

There really isn't much in dentistry that is evidence-based, most of what we do is done because we've been doing it with positive results (or no negative results!). More evidence-based research would be a welcome advance to the field.

 

[delicious]

hmm.. you raise a good point ecdoesit. No, you don't need a PhD to do research. Especially if you're doing clinical research. BUT, if you're doing more basic-science dentistry related research (ala bone biolology, muscle, micro/genetics/perio, etc.) I think you would definitely need that hardcore lab experience.

Plus, overall, I think having a PhD could improve getting funding for your projects. (Respect/Credibility Issue) I could be wrong on that.. and would be interested in people's views.

What is it that you don't like about your MS program?! Is it the extra work during your DDS/DMD years? Or the time off in between your training?

 

[ItsGavinC]

Dentistry isn't like optometry or plumbing.

I'm sure they don't take any offense, but how is it unlike those two professions?

 

[dentist_to_be?]

The combined program is not just simple math 4+3.
Usually students take additional classes in their first two years
and take off during their D3 to go into research for 3 yrs.
and then go back to the clinics for their last 2 yrs and finish up whatever they have to.

imo, the program is over-rated. do we really need a phd to do research? the latter two years will be problematic cos you will be behind with ur area of interest for 2 yrs! given how fast things are developing in dentistry. you are done.

but, if u want to be a dean, you could think about this program since it seems everybody in high position is dds/phd.

hehe, ironically, i m a dds/ms student. and taking 8 additional units this quarter! and i dont recommend people getting in the program, yet i have at least 4 more classmates up for the challenge.

do your grades suffer because of the extra classes?

 

[delicious]

I'm sure they don't take any offense, but how is it unlike those two professions?

Hey Gavin. I was trying to say that in the field of dentistry, there is still much that is unknown about the basis of certain diseases, and there are still diseases/congenital abnormalities which we haven't yet perfected the treatment for. So, dentistry is a constantly expanding body of knowledge.

With plumbing (or optometry 😛 ), I feel that you're given a set of skills that pretty much allow you to deal with every problem you'll be presented with. I'm not currently aware of optometry research, but I feel the duties of an optometrist are very clearly defined and somewhat limited (and the techniques to approach those limited duties are near perfect).

[& this is why dentists should have a higher social status than optometrists!! 😱 Oops, save that for another thread.]

 

[ItsGavinC]

Hey Gavin. I was trying to say that in the field of dentistry, there is still much that is unknown about the basis of certain diseases, and there are still diseases/congenital abnormalities which we haven't yet perfected the treatment for. So, dentistry is a constantly expanding body of knowledge.

Gotcha. I'm a little slow tonight!

 

[msf41]

I've been kicking around the idea of the DDS/PhD type of thing or just looking into teaching at a D-school at some point. I've enjoyed the undergrad research I've done so far (I just presented my poster at the Kansas Acadamy of Science last week).

I hate turning everything into an income thead, but does anyone know how much a DDS/PhD makes? I mean if I'm going to go to 7-8 years of graduate school (4 years dent + 3-4 years for PhD) I have to look at the opportunity cost involved in that decision. In that same amount of time I could specialize in endo, ortho etc, and be making $275,000+/yr. I don't know many professors that earn more than $75,000/yr, and they have 6-8 years of grad school for a PhD.

 

[delicious]

I've been kicking around the idea of the DDS/PhD type of thing or just looking into teaching at a D-school at some point. I've enjoyed the undergrad research I've done so far (I just presented my poster at the Kansas Acadamy of Science last week).

I hate turning everything into an income thead, but does anyone know how much a DDS/PhD makes? I mean if I'm going to go to 7-8 years of graduate school (4 years dent + 3-4 years for PhD) I have to look at the opportunity cost involved in that decision. In that same amount of time I could specialize in endo, ortho etc, and be making $275,000+/yr. I don't know many professors that earn more than $75,000/yr, and they have 6-8 years of grad school for a PhD.

Well, keep in mind that there's generally no tuition for the PhD years. You can actually be paid for doing your Ph.D. at some schools. As for your $75,000 figure, I've been hearing differently recently. I was talking to one of my professors the other day, and she said some are now making as much as $120,000. I'm not making that up. Maybe it has to do with the shortage of academic dentists. That's still nothing compared to what you could make in private practice, but still, it's pretty damn good.