What is wrong with us (pharmacists)?

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Why are we letting retail corporate idiots control the way we practice pharmacy? Are we so desperate to keep a job that we forget the promise we made at graduation to make our patients' health and wellbeing our PRIMARY concerns? HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO DO THIS when I have people who understand nothing about my responsibilities and obligations as a pharmacist talking to me about ridiculous reward programs and pushing me to fill more and more prescriptions each day?

I'm here complaining but I know I have it better than some of you working at other chains.. If most of us feel this way why aren't we doing something about it? I feel sad for our profession.

 

[awval999]

I would say most of it is due to the fact that pharmacists in general are either:
1. Severely in student loan debt, ie: practicing pharmacists ages 25-35 or
2 .So deeply in debt from their McMansion, 3 suvs, minivans, etc, ie: pharmacists ages 35+

When you are dependent on the corporations to pay the mortgage, car note, student loan note, etc, it's hard to walk away.

They own us, and they know it.

 

[grumps]

I fought back. I wasn't in debt. They got rid of me.

 

[benjee]

I fought back. I wasn't in debt. They got rid of me.

You didn't , you just give in!! cuz you should have stayed back and fight back daily against them, tell them what they did was wrong since they don't know about this profession.

 

[benjee]

Why are we letting retail corporate idiots control the way we practice pharmacy? Are we so desperate to keep a job that we forget the promise we made at graduation to make our patients' health and wellbeing our PRIMARY concerns? HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO DO THIS when I have people who understand nothing about my responsibilities and obligations as a pharmacist talking to me about ridiculous reward programs and pushing me to fill more and more prescriptions each day?

I'm here complaining but I know I have it better than some of you working at other chains.. If most of us feel this way why aren't we doing something about it? I feel sad for our profession.

Actually, this happens to every single profession as long as there are corporate idiots in charge.

 

[nextgenpharm]

Like my grandma used to say, "Money talks, everything else walks." Feel sad for the entire world at this point. Everything is so backwards this day in age.

 

[grumps]

The heroes of the spring have already been born. All it takes is for 10% to awaken.

 

[half life]

Why are we letting retail corporate idiots control the way we practice pharmacy? Are we so desperate to keep a job that we forget the promise we made at graduation to make our patients' health and wellbeing our PRIMARY concerns? HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO DO THIS when I have people who understand nothing about my responsibilities and obligations as a pharmacist talking to me about ridiculous reward programs and pushing me to fill more and more prescriptions each day?

I'm here complaining but I know I have it better than some of you working at other chains.. If most of us feel this way why aren't we doing something about it? I feel sad for our profession.

I'll bite.

You are seeing this solely through the eyes of a pharmacist. Logic dictates that all operations should center around the very expert of a pharmacy... the pharmacist.

However, as long as there is somebody 'above' you (as far as the business is concerned), what you describe will exist to a varying extent. Your virtuous concerns/goals/visions can be marginalized. You see a pharmacy as a care center. Yet, right or wrong, from their perspective, pharmacy is a business. With competing interests, majority (and $) rules.

For your own health, reconcile the general differences in perspective. If that isn't possible -- and it may not be -- you will move on whether of your own volition or theirs.

Actually, this happens to every single profession as long as there are corporate idiots in charge.

+1
This absolutely exists in every profession. Hence why people who cannot tolerate it go into business for themselves... their answer to "doing something about it".

 

[Digsbe]

They are concerned with profits and metrics, and the safest or most pharmacist-friendly community practice model is probably not the cheapest one nor is that necessarily their primary concern in my view.

 

[NateRobinson]

What the heck are you on about?

You're being paid $54 dollars an hour on average to do these tasks. FIFTY-FOUR DOLLARS. AN HOUR. Who else makes that kind of money an hour? Only doctors, some high profile lawyers and those that are in business (and those guys sucked so many people off to get their job that it's not even funny.)

Stop freaking complaining and go do your goddamn job. I'm 15 million percent sure the guy that works at the Popeyes across the street getting paid $7.90 an hour that has to deal with all kinds of people yelling at him and screaming at him because their chicken isnt ready yet would LOVE to switch places with you.

Some of you pharmacists, man. I can't.

 

[Digsbe]

What the heck are you on about?

You're being paid $54 dollars an hour on average to do these tasks. FIFTY-FOUR DOLLARS. AN HOUR. Who else makes that kind of money an hour? Only doctors, some high profile lawyers and those that are in business (and those guys sucked so many people off to get their job that it's not even funny.)

Stop freaking complaining and go do your goddamn job. I'm 15 million percent sure the guy that works at the Popeyes across the street getting paid $7.90 an hour that has to deal with all kinds of people yelling at him and screaming at him because their chicken isnt ready yet would LOVE to switch places with you.

Some of you pharmacists, man. I can't.

Have you ever worked in retail pharmacy?

The guy at Popeyes did not go to school for years to earn a doctorate level degree to do what he does. He isn't going to be sued if he messes up and most likely if he makes an error it doesn't have the potential to seriously harm his customers. If he wants to swap places he can go to college himself, go to pharmacy school, get licensed, and then get hired to be a pharmacist.

So, because pharmacists are well paid compared to the average pay does that mean they should sit back and shut up when chains or corporations do things they disagree with or that may be harmful to patients? The premise of the thread and the point of discussion is non-pharmacist business minded individuals trying to run pharmacy practice and how things should be done. It's about keeping healthcare and patient safety at the forefront of running a pharmacy.

 

[BenJammin]

This is the attitude of the average retail pharmacist:

ARP: I hate how I get paid 6 figures and people treat me with such disrespect.

30 minutes later

ARP: Uh oh, looks like a druggie is coming up to get syringes for his crack addiction.


So pathetic.

 

[Digsbe]

This is the attitude of the average retail pharmacist:

ARP: I hate how I get paid 6 figures and people treat me with such disrespect.

30 minutes later

ARP: Uh oh, looks like a druggie is coming up to get syringes for his crack addiction.


So pathetic.

Exercising professional judgement does not equate with disrespecting someone.

 

[BenJammin]

Exercising professional judgement does not equate with disrespecting someone.

I don't know where you come from but assuming someone is a drug addict by the way they look is disrespectful. Doesn't matter if it IS professional judgment.

 

[Digsbe]

I don't know where you come from but assuming someone is a drug addict by the way they look is disrespectful. Doesn't matter if it IS professional judgment.

I agree that assuming someone must be a crack addict because of how they dress is disrespectful. But it's not disrespectful in all cases to exercise professional judgement and refuse a sail. If I went into retail pharmacy I would most likely not fill a script for massive quantities of methadone for the guy in his 20's that went to a shady pain clinic (then again, I wouldn't fill at all for the shady pain clinic). I also wouldn't sell syringes no questions asked, if the patient fills with me and need it for prescribed drugs I'm fine with it. If someone from out of town comes buy and demonstrates a legitimate need then I'm fine with it, but I'm not going to sell them to anyone that asks. If someone has standards and things they are uncomfortable with that is not wrongful discrimination.

Even so, someone disrespecting a pharmacist solely to be mean or hateful does not equate with someone disrespecting another person by exercizing professional judgement in an attempt to cover their own butt in what they believe is a shady sale or because they don't want to enable someone they suspect of using illegal drugs. The reason for the former is hatred, the reason for the latter is self protection and not based on hatred for the other person.

 

[Nkemjika]

.....

 

[BidingMyTime]

II also wouldn't sell syringes no questions asked, if the patient fills with me and need it for prescribed drugs I'm fine with it. If someone from out of town comes buy and demonstrates a legitimate need then I'm fine with it, but I'm not going to sell them to anyone that asks. If someone has standards and things they are uncomfortable with that is not wrongful discrimination.

Off-topic, but this depends on the state you live in. IL specifically changed their statue moving syringes from RX to OTC for the stated purpose of giving drug users access to clean syringes (the unstated purpose, hoping to cut down on the amount of HIV treatment being paid for through public aid.) So, yes, in IL it would definitely be discrimination to refuse to sell someone syringes because you "think" they might be using them for illegal drugs. (and ethically, if you can legally sell the syringes, why wouldn't you want to? HIV is a horrible disease for those who get it, the medical costs often paid for by taxpayers are tremendous, refusing syringes to someone is NOT going to stop anyone from using illegal drugs....selling syringes OTC has so many benefits, and no negatives, I really don't understand people who are against this.)

 

[Digsbe]

Off-topic, but this depends on the state you live in. IL specifically changed their statue moving syringes from RX to OTC for the stated purpose of giving drug users access to clean syringes (the unstated purpose, hoping to cut down on the amount of HIV treatment being paid for through public aid.) So, yes, in IL it would definitely be discrimination to refuse to sell someone syringes because you "think" they might be using them for illegal drugs. (and ethically, if you can legally sell the syringes, why wouldn't you want to? HIV is a horrible disease for those who get it, the medical costs often paid for by taxpayers are tremendous, refusing syringes to someone is NOT going to stop anyone from using illegal drugs....selling syringes OTC has so many benefits, and no negatives, I really don't understand people who are against this.)

I wouldn't be against it if there weren't legal repercussions. I've been told by some pharmacists (who may be wrong) that in my state some have been sued for contributing to a drug addiction, same thing with early fills.

If possible I would hand out rehab pamphlets with the syringes or the dangers of illegal drug use. It's good to prevent diseases from spreading among people than plan on illegally using drugs, but the best option in my opinion would also be to educate them and at least tell them where they can go to help get clean (or call the cops on them if you have evidence that they are using illegal drugs).

 

[rxlea]

Anyone who won't sell clean needles somewhere where they legally can do so are ****ing ridiculous.

 

[Hope1974]

Off-topic, but this depends on the state you live in. IL specifically changed their statue moving syringes from RX to OTC for the stated purpose of giving drug users access to clean syringes (the unstated purpose, hoping to cut down on the amount of HIV treatment being paid for through public aid.) So, yes, in IL it would definitely be discrimination to refuse to sell someone syringes because you "think" they might be using them for illegal drugs. (and ethically, if you can legally sell the syringes, why wouldn't you want to? HIV is a horrible disease for those who get it, the medical costs often paid for by taxpayers are tremendous, refusing syringes to someone is NOT going to stop anyone from using illegal drugs....selling syringes OTC has so many benefits, and no negatives, I really don't understand people who are against this.)

👍

 

[BenJammin]

I wouldn't be against it if there weren't legal repercussions. I've been told by some pharmacists (who may be wrong) that in my state some have been sued for contributing to a drug addiction, same thing with early fills.

When will you kiddos realize that EVERYONE can be sued for ANYTHING? Hell, I can sue you right now for defamation of character...doesn't mean I'll win. How can a pharmacist be held liable for contributing to a heroin addiction if they aren't akin to that information in the first place? Am I supposed to ask the patient "excuse me sir but are you using this to inject heroin?"

I have never seen a liquor store turn away an alcoholic, why should a pharmacist turn away someone that wants syringes?

 

[Digsbe]

When will you kiddos realize that EVERYONE can be sued for ANYTHING? Hell, I can sue you right now for defamation of character...doesn't mean I'll win. How can a pharmacist be held liable for contributing to a heroin addiction if they aren't akin to that information in the first place? Am I supposed to ask the patient "excuse me sir but are you using this to inject heroin?"

I have never seen a liquor store turn away an alcoholic, why should a pharmacist turn away someone that wants syringes?

But have they held in court? As I said, I may be wrong and as a P1 I'm going off what other pharmacists have told me.

If I know they are using drugs (like bringing them into the pharmacy when they buy needles) I'm absolutely not going to sell them needles, I would probably call the police on them too. If it's some random guy and I have no evidence of drug use? Fine by me, what matters is what may hold up in court or not and that's what I'm still learning. I would also probably have pamphlets or info for drug rehab programs or education on the dangers of drug use though too if my employer allowed me.

 

[iamaninja]

But have they held in court? As I said, I may be wrong and as a P1 I'm going off what other pharmacists have told me.

If I know they are using drugs (like bringing them into the pharmacy when they buy needles) I'm absolutely not going to sell them needles, I would probably call the police on them too. If it's some random guy and I have no evidence of drug use? Fine by me, what matters is what may hold up in court or not and that's what I'm still learning. I would also probably have pamphlets or info for drug rehab programs or education on the dangers of drug use though too if my employer allowed me.

I understand you are P1 and gung ho, but you are going to have to mellow your attitude going forward. We aren't the DEA, and you shouldn't be calling the police on customers unless there is blatant dangerous activity going on. You don't need to be looking for reasons to not sell syringes. Drug users are going to shoot drugs regardless, a syringe only allows them to do so much safer, and shouldn't be denied very often. In this profession you are going to have to show compassion and you are going to deal with drug addicts and you will need to think rationally in how you deal with those patients, something like syringes is not the place to take a stand most of the time.

 

[Digsbe]

I understand you are P1 and gung ho, but you are going to have to mellow your attitude going forward. We aren't the DEA, and you shouldn't be calling the police on customers unless there is blatant dangerous activity going on. You don't need to be looking for reasons to not sell syringes. Drug users are going to shoot drugs regardless, a syringe only allows them to do so much safer, and shouldn't be denied very often. In this profession you are going to have to show compassion and you are going to deal with drug addicts and you will need to think rationally in how you deal with those patients, something like syringes is not the place to take a stand most of the time.

If I go into community I do plan on selling syringes unless I know 100% or see the drugs on the person that they will be used for illegal use. It's not my place to pry, but if it's up to me I would also like to provide pamphlets at the register for people to rehab programs. If illegal activity is going on (like seeing drugs on the person or a sale going on in the parking lot) I would call the police.

Most of the pharmacists I worked with took a very strong line against drug seekers and drug addicts. One of the pharmacies I worked at essentially wouldn't fill any commonly abused CII prescriptions for people that gave him any kind of vibe. I personally disagreed with him, so long as it's a legit prescription from a legit practioner and isn't too soon I would fill it. But that wasn't my call to make as a tech. He also would refuse to fill for some of the pain clinics. He didn't even stock Suboxone or Methadone, he told me it caused more problems than it was worth. At another pharmacy they would not sell syringes without a prescription for insulin or another drug that requires it. That was just their policy. I would be more liberal, but I don't plan on being completely open with it and I draw the line when it comes to knowingly giving a drug user syringes or when something illegal is going on that I have proof of (possession of drugs, etc).

 

[BenJammin]

Good lord, you say you will never dispense syringes to someone if you have proof that they are drug users like someone is going to tell you "yeah, I need some syringes for my heroin addiction". Students can be so delusional.

 

[Digsbe]

Good lord, you say you will never dispense syringes to someone if you have proof that they are drug users like someone is going to tell you "yeah, I need some syringes for my heroin addiction". Students can be so delusional.

If you read my post you would see that those would be instances where I see the drugs physically on them. Sure, 99% of illegal drug users aren't going to tell you "can I buy some syringes to shoot up with my friends?" But, if I have proof of them being used illegally I'm not going to do it. I'm not comfortable with that and I would also call the police if a crime was witnessed (like possession of the drugs or a drug sale in the parking lot... Which I have witnessed before). If some guy asks for syringes I'm not going to prod or interrogate them, I would sell them no questions asked.

 

[bob1234]

If you read my post you would see that those would be instances where I see the drugs physically on them. Sure, 99% of illegal drug users aren't going to tell you "can I buy some syringes to shoot up with my friends?" But, if I have proof of them being used illegally I'm not going to do it. I'm not comfortable with that and I would also call the police if a crime was witnessed (like possession of the drugs or a drug sale in the parking lot... Which I have witnessed before). If some guy asks for syringes I'm not going to prod or interrogate them, I would sell them no questions asked.

I bet you wouldn't call the police on a patient taking their oxy more than prescribed to get high. The above posters are right, you aren't the DEA or local police, spend your time worrying about patient care and less about things you have no control over.

 

[BenJammin]

Pharmacists are begging state boards and legislators to not make pharmacists act like detectives and here we have a student that wants his own honorary DEA badge....

 

[Sparda29]

I'd rather be a drug abuse enabler than a member of a pathetic organization like the DEA any day.

 

[zelman]

Pharmacists are begging state boards and legislators to not make pharmacists act like detectives and here we have a student that wants his own honorary DEA badge....

I'm all for responsibility when it comes with power. Don't tell me to spend hours determining drug abuse and/or diversion is happening so that I can avoid a sale and have the junkie buy their stuff at the chain across the street. Man, I really showed them.

 

[Benelli]

Why are we letting retail corporate idiots control the way we practice pharmacy? Are we so desperate to keep a job that we forget the promise we made at graduation to make our patients' health and wellbeing our PRIMARY concerns? HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO DO THIS when I have people who understand nothing about my responsibilities and obligations as a pharmacist talking to me about ridiculous reward programs and pushing me to fill more and more prescriptions each day?

I'm here complaining but I know I have it better than some of you working at other chains.. If most of us feel this way why aren't we doing something about it? I feel sad for our profession.

Why not just go to a corporation that shares your ideals? There are programs and pharmacies out there that focus on patient health as opposed to filling prescriptions. Transitional care, skilled nursing, and hospice are just a couple of examples.

 

[benjee]

Why not just go to a corporation that shares your ideals? There are programs and pharmacies out there that focus on patient health as opposed to filling prescriptions. Transitional care, skilled nursing, and hospice are just a couple of examples.

You think those corporate idiots would have time for you ? don't be naive . They only see you as some irrelevant entities/leeches taking wages every 2 weeks from company, that's all. They don't expect you to tell them what to do.

 

[MindOverMatter]

selling syringes OTC has so many benefits, and no negatives, I really don't understand people who are against this.)

Anyone who won't sell clean needles somewhere where they legally can do so are ****ing ridiculous.

I'm against it. I won't sell them without a documented medical need on file at my chain.

I used to live in an idealistic world like you guys, until the landscaping people kept reporting finding used needles in the bushes outside. I used to be more sympathetic, until an 8 year old girl found a used, bloody needle in the sink of the public bathroom at my store.

Drug abusers don't care about anyone but themselves, and getting their next fix. Until they agree to dispose of their needles in a safe manner (which they won't), I will refuse to provide them with the tools to cause public harm. Aside from that, I couldn't care less about the damage they do to themselves.

No negatives to selling OTC syringes? Wake up.

 

[rxlea]

I'm against it. I won't sell them without a documented medical need on file at my chain.

I used to live in an idealistic world like you guys, until the landscaping people kept reporting finding used needles in the bushes outside. I used to be more sympathetic, until an 8 year old girl found a used, bloody needle in the sink of the public bathroom at my store.

Drug abusers don't care about anyone but themselves, and getting their next fix. Until they agree to dispose of their needles in a safe manner (which they won't), I will refuse to provide them with the tools to cause public harm. Aside from that, I couldn't care less about the damage they do to themselves.

No negatives to selling OTC syringes? Wake up.

We provide the sharps bin and tell patients "after you use your medicine, throw your needle in the sharps bin please so that nobody accidentally finds it".

Education. I'm not naive. I have plenty of experience working/living in neighborhood with high crime and drug use.

It's a public health issue.

You are not the police. So, YOU wake up and educate yourself on the research related to clean needles and prevention of disease.

Your moral high horse won't help anyone.

 

[DesertPT]

Stop freaking complaining and go do your goddamn job.

"I'm not one for blaspheming, but that one made me laugh."

 

[Angela1234]

I feel like a DEA agent or a detective most days when I worked in retail pharmacy. I am always surprised by how dishonest the customers are about when they got their last refill, etc. I feel almost that the DEA should be paying us to do their jobs. We are the ones getting yelled at when we deny a fill.

 

[BidingMyTime]

Drug abusers don't care about anyone but themselves, and getting their next fix. Until they agree to dispose of their needles in a safe manner (which they won't), I will refuse to provide them with the tools to cause public harm. Aside from that, I couldn't care less about the damage they do to themselves.

No negatives to selling OTC syringes? Wake up.

You really think not selling OTC syringes will prevent syringes lying around in public areas? Seriously? Drug users already get illegal drugs, and you think they aren't going to get illegal syringes? Of course they will, the only difference is the needles gotten illegally will be more expensive, therefore more likely to be shared & more likely to be carrying germs. Syringes have been left in public places long before they were sold OTC.

 

[clachan3]

It is sad, which is why after 6 years of retail, I'm actually thinking about doing a residency even though I'm probably not good enough to get one. I've been called a pushover here a couple times when I was complaining about my retail woes. It's kind of depressing sometimes, I think the hardest part for me has been trying to be the best pharmacist I can to my patients, while complying with every stupid pharmacy operational decision that a kid fresh out of business school who corporate hired to make. It's very ridiculous

 

[MindOverMatter]

We provide the sharps bin and tell patients "after you use your medicine, throw your needle in the sharps bin please so that nobody accidentally finds it".

What do you mean by this? Do you just give them a sharps container? Or let them come back in and dispose of the needles in yours?

I'm seriously intrigued.

 

[vistaril]

What the heck are you on about?

You're being paid $54 dollars an hour on average to do these tasks. FIFTY-FOUR DOLLARS. AN HOUR. Who else makes that kind of money an hour? Only doctors, some high profile lawyers and those that are in business (and those guys sucked so many people off to get their job that it's not even funny.)

This is where you are wrong. A *lot* of people make much more than 54 dollars an hour besides just all doctors and many lawyers. Name a field, just about any field, and most likely there are many people in that field making much more than 54 dollars an hour. The on average part is not all that important because averages in fields that are viewed less like commodities aren't particularly important to individuals.

 

[rxlea]

What do you mean by this? Do you just give them a sharps container? Or let them come back in and dispose of the needles in yours?

I'm seriously intrigued.

the Sharps containers were in the bathroom attached to the wall.