What keeps you from cheating?

[devildogdoc]

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Soooo, you want ME to find the research to prove YOUR assertion? Yeah, I'll get right on that...

 

[Jas1360]

I'm a Nihilist, I use logic as my compass. But anyways, I haven't overcome the guilt, that requires millions of dollars worth of therapy.

So if we are talking about moral nihilism, would you like to explain how striving for that is not any different than the lack of social consciousness that a sociopath maintains?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Soooo, you want ME to find the research to prove YOUR assertion? Yeah, I'll get right on that...

If you consider using Wikipedia research, sure. That or you could take intro sociology, they cover this topic.

 

[Ashley1989]

I'm honored you're finding me theatrical, I'm finding you naive.
Anyways, what's easier to believe that most cheaters exist on this edge of the spectrum where they completely cheat v.s people who never cheat or rather that most people lie somewhere in between in a normal curve fashion like almost every behavioral pattern?

The point is that your perception of the world is based on a fallacious premise and thus every thing afterward will fundamentally be wrong.

Actually, if you go back to my original post it ended with a "soooooooooo" meaning I wasn't being completely serious. I realize that there are cheaters on a huge spectrum, but decided to focus on just one kind in particular.

On a side note, I advise you to not take yourself so seriously. Additionally, I advise you to not make such sweeping assumptions about an individual's perception based on a two Internet post exchange, it doesn't fit with your attempt to be intellectually superior.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

So if we are talking about moral nihilism, would you like to explain how striving for that is not any different than the lack of social consciousness that a sociopath maintains?

Sociopathy is defined as a condition with symptoms in the DSM, it is characterized by something even far beyond moral apathy. Moral nihilism is a popular theoretical paradigm in which you examine the world. I despite being a moral nihilist am still filled with cultural norms, values, etc, I just choose to view them from a different paradigm.

 

[Jas1360]

Sociopathy is defined as a condition with symptoms in the DSM, it is characterized by something even far beyond moral apathy. Moral nihilism is a popular theoretical paradigm in which you examine the world. I despite being a moral nihilist am still filled with cultural norms, values, etc, I just choose to view them from a different paradigm.

I was not implying that you were a sociopath, clearly you would not fit the definition because you said you still feel guilt. But you also implied that you are striving to learn to not feel guilty.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Actually, if you go back to my original post it ended with a "soooooooooo" meaning I wasn't being completely serious. I realize that there are cheaters on a huge spectrum, but decided to focus on just one kind in particular.

On a side note, I advise you to not take yourself so seriously. Additionally, I advise you to not make such sweeping assumptions about an individual's perception based on a two Internet post exchange, it doesn't fit with your attempt to be intellectually superior.

Then why bother making this argument to begin with if it is inapplicable?
Either way, we should continue this conversation over tea and some booze.

 

[devildogdoc]

If you consider using Wikipedia research, sure. That or you could take intro sociology, they cover this topic.

Ah, so that's where all your research is coming from, Wikipedia and your SOC101 course? Should've known.

 

[Jas1360]

Sociopathy is defined as a condition with symptoms in the DSM, it is characterized by something even far beyond moral apathy. Moral nihilism is a popular theoretical paradigm in which you examine the world. I despite being a moral nihilist am still filled with cultural norms, values, etc, I just choose to view them from a different paradigm.

I understand the theoretical approach you are taking but where does your path end? If everything is learned perception, why bother to be a doctor? Why do anything that benefits anyone but yourself?

 

[Ashley1989]

Then why bother making this argument to begin with if it is inapplicable?
Either way, we should continue this conversation over tea and some booze.

Maybe because I still have the capacity to be playful, something else I advise you to try doing. Also, let me kindly remind you that you were the one coming balls out about the "fruitless" comment. Don't take yourself so seriously, it will be ok I promise.

And I would prefer tea and crumpets, maybe a little brandy. Thanks so much. 🙂

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I was not implying that you were a sociopath, clearly you would not fit the definition because you said you still feel guilt. But you also implied that you are striving to learn to not feel guilty.

Wait what? Lol, sometimes feelings of guilt are irrational and aspects of mental disorder and dysfunction. Which is why many people go to therapy for feeling guilty about irrational things.
Sociopathy is a whole thing out of the ballpark, so let's keep out of this.
Nihilism has nothing to do with sociopathy nor would even growing up in a nihilist environment lead to sociopathy as sociopathy is completely different. Nilhism is simply a belief that things are things, an acceptance of the reality that objectively we only have perceptions of good and evil, and that they are completely subjective because it depends on your perception. It has nothing to do with feeling guilty and not feeling guilty or even being amoral, but some morals are logical.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Ah, so that's where all your research is coming from, Wikipedia and your SOC101 course? Should've known.

.... No I'm telling you where YOU can find this information. No seriously, the link will probably look like...
Wikipedia.org/collectivistculture
I know this from pew polls, reproduced studies, and journals. It was actually also an mcat passage topic ironically.

 

[Jas1360]

Wait what? Lol, sometimes feelings of guilt are irrational and aspects of mental disorder and dysfunction. Which is why many people go to therapy for feeling guilty about irrational things.
Sociopathy is a whole thing out of the ballpark, so let's keep out of this.
Nihilism has nothing to do with sociopathy nor would even growing up in a nihilist environment lead to sociopathy as sociopathy is completely different. Nilhism is simply a belief that things are things, an acceptance of the reality that objectively we only have perceptions of good and evil, and that they are completely subjective because it depends on your perception. It has nothing to do with feeling guilty and not feeling guilty or even being amoral, but some morals are logical.

So then you are only referring to Nihilism and not moral nihilism?

 

[Jas1360]

Wait what? Lol, sometimes feelings of guilt are irrational and aspects of mental disorder and dysfunction. Which is why many people go to therapy for feeling guilty about irrational things.
Sociopathy is a whole thing out of the ballpark, so let's keep out of this.
Nihilism has nothing to do with sociopathy nor would even growing up in a nihilist environment lead to sociopathy as sociopathy is completely different. Nilhism is simply a belief that things are things, an acceptance of the reality that objectively we only have perceptions of good and evil, and that they are completely subjective because it depends on your perception. It has nothing to do with feeling guilty and not feeling guilty or even being amoral, but some morals are logical.

Do you happen to read books by Kurt Vonnegut?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I understand the theoretical approach you are taking but where does your path end? If everything is learned perception, why bother to be a doctor? Why do anything that benefits anyone but yourself?

..... What? No seriously, are you high? You've just stated that Nilhism is similar to sociopathy, that nilhists only care about themselves, and that self-realization is against it.
None of that has anything to do with that. No literally this is analogous to me saying that Aristeolian logic leads to abortion. Or that Christianity makes you eventually hate your family and live in a closet loving Jesus and rejecting the world.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

So then you are only referring to Nihilism and not moral nihilism?

Both are similar. Morals exist, but nihilist will ask why they exist and why they are there, and acknowledge the philosophical underpinnings that there is a whole bunch of subjectivity. And that as such things are fluid.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Do you happen to read books by Kurt Vonnegut?

No.

 

[Jas1360]

..... What? No seriously, are you high? You've just stated that Nilhism is similar to sociopathy, that nilhists only care about themselves, and that self-realization is against it.
None of that has anything to do with that. No literally this is analogous to me saying that Aristeolian logic leads to abortion. Or that Christianity makes you eventually hate your family and live in a closet loving Jesus and rejecting the world.

I never stated that, I only asked you to explain the difference. I was trying to understand your view of Nihilism.

 

[Ashley1989]

No.

You're quite the charmer. Lol.

 

[Jas1360]

You're quite the charmer. Lol.

Lol 👍

 

[ChartaBona]

Call it arrogance, but I didn't cheat in undergrad, because quite frankly I was the best test-taker in most classes.

I think one of the more interesting moments was when I was getting 80's & 90's on physics exams while the math majors were averaging 40's. I majored in Bio and had forgotten all but the most basic trigonometry and calculus formulas (from when I was in H.S.), but it was enough for the exam questions, which were essentially homework problems on steroids. Was anyone cheating in that class? If they were, they sure as heck weren't cheating off me.

I can't imagine relying on cheating to get a good grade. In the situations where I was really worried about exams, it's not like I would have someone to cheat off of anyway.

I once had people in A&P ask me to not cover my scantron sheet during exams. Without naming people, I told the professor. I wasn't going to be a vindictive jerk and get people slapped w/ academic dishonesty, but I wasn't going to let such flagrant cheating occur either. The prof had to make 2 versions of the exam and had to change the seating arrangements during exams.

 

[Fivo]

Call it arrogance, but I didn't cheat in undergrad, because quite frankly I was the best test-taker in most classes.

I think one of the more interesting moments was when I was getting 80's & 90's on physics exams while the math majors were averaging 40's. I majored in Bio and had forgotten all but the most basic trigonometry and calculus formulas (from when I was in H.S.), but it was enough for the exam questions, which were essentially homework problems on steroids. Was anyone cheating in that class? If they were, they sure as heck weren't cheating off me.

I can't imagine relying on cheating to get a good grade. In the situations where I was really worried about exams, it's not like I would have someone to cheat off of anyway.

I once had people in A&P ask me to not cover my scantron sheet during exams. Without naming people, I told the professor. I wasn't going to be a vindictive jerk and get people slapped w/ academic dishonesty, but I wasn't going to let such flagrant cheating occur either. The prof had to make 2 versions of the exam and had to change the seating arrangements during exams.

Please remind me to never buy you a drink

 

[devildogdoc]

.... No I'm telling you where YOU can find this information. No seriously, the link will probably look like...
Wikipedia.org/collectivistculture
I know this from pew polls, reproduced studies, and journals. It was actually also an mcat passage topic ironically.

"Seek and ye shall find" is what I'm hearing here. To that I say "If you declare it, you defend it". Not my job.

I will add that while I've learned many great things in classrooms (without cheating) 🙂 the knowledge I've gained from doing is much more useful and concrete than the thought-provoking yet generally, well, academic knowledge of the type found in books. That said, collectivist societies generally place great value on individual conformity (in fact, that's basically their definition) and cheating is a considerably nonconformist action. Logically, you'd think it'd be more probable that cheating within a collectivist society would be less tolerated. And that is where I'm coming from, I didn't just read a passage on the MCAT or some articles about it, I've lived in collectivist societies. For almost two years in Japan and for a year on a literal commune, as well as plenty of time in the military (which is not only collectivist but highly insular as well) and I will say that in none of those places is breaking rules any more acceptable than in most places I've been in the US, quite the opposite in fact.

While I don't have any any unfounded assertions or Wikipedia entries to back up my claims, I think I've made my point. Time for bed. Good luck with that nihilism thing though. 👍

 

[911 Turbo]

One time during a freshman bio test this premed looked in the direction of my paper. He may have been stretching his neck, but I couldn't take a chance. Took a candid mugshot of him the next day and sent it to every medical school in the state and every medical school he talked about as his "dream medical school" along with a letter explaining how I think he was looking in the direction of my test paper. I, for one, won't stand for any potential cheaters becoming doctors. I mean who knows what he will do when he becomes a doctor... break HIPPA on a regular basis? And anyways, its one less premed for me to deal with and compete against 🙂

 

[MaenadsDance]

I think people who call themselves nihilists without having a thorough grounding in Western philosophy are cheating, but that's probably because I never got much further than the Nichomachean Ethics when it comes to morality --

As Aristotle said, virtue is a habit. Those who argue that the cheater in undergrad (even this hypothetical one-or-two-questions cheater who's bumping their grade from the A- to the A+) will not stay a cheater into medical school and beyond are, I think, wildly underestimating the effects of habituation. Once one accepts for oneself that it's okay to cheat "just a little", one will continue to cheat "just a little" wherever useful, until there is some reckoning.

((I need to stop talking about philosophy on SDN, whenever I do I find myself incapable of acting like a pretentious dickwad. I should perhaps inculcate in myself a habit of tolerance and patience)).

 

[Josh7]

Call it arrogance, but I didn't cheat in undergrad, because quite frankly I was the best test-taker in most classes.

I think one of the more interesting moments was when I was getting 80's & 90's on physics exams while the math majors were averaging 40's. I majored in Bio and had forgotten all but the most basic trigonometry and calculus formulas (from when I was in H.S.), but it was enough for the exam questions, which were essentially homework problems on steroids. Was anyone cheating in that class? If they were, they sure as heck weren't cheating off me.

I can't imagine relying on cheating to get a good grade. In the situations where I was really worried about exams, it's not like I would have someone to cheat off of anyway.

I once had people in A&P ask me to not cover my scantron sheet during exams. Without naming people, I told the professor. I wasn't going to be a vindictive jerk and get people slapped w/ academic dishonesty, but I wasn't going to let such flagrant cheating occur either. The prof had to make 2 versions of the exam and had to change the seating arrangements during exams.

 

[dbeast]

 

[ChartaBona]

Please remind me to never buy you a drink

What would you do if a couple people who have been sitting around you in class confront you at lunchtime and outright tell you that they've been cheating off you for a while, and tell you to not cover up your test so much next time? These were my lab partners too... The whole situation made me feel sick to my stomach. It was probably the worst I've ever felt in undergrad🙁.

I didn't want to get anyone in trouble, so I told the prof that "some students" were trying to copy off my exams. I wanted people to stop cheating off me, not get branded w/ academic dishonesty. Class sizes are 20-30 at my undergrad, so when i say change seating, I mean people were in every other row of desks during exams, which was standard procedure in some courses.

If you're going to cheat, then cheat. Just don't tell me to help you cheat.

I used the Physics example to reiterate what someone said on the first page, I'd get a MUCH lower grade if I tried cheating in some courses. I also STILL don't get why all us bio majors in that class did consistently better than the math majors.

 

[BABSstudent]

I want to go to medical school. Cheating isn't going to help me get there since I may be caught or I won't learn how to effectively study/take exams. Besides, cheating now will ultimately affect patients so it really isn't ethical.


Sent from my iPod using SDN Mobile app. Please excuse the typos.

 

[ChartaBona]

I didn't say I was the smartest in class, just that I was the best TEST TAKER. Some people knew the material better than me, and knew it long after I forgot it, but I would eke out slightly better grades. I double/triple checked my exams after finishing them to make sure I didn't miss a NOT, as in "What is NOT a _____?"

Why do I think I was the best test taker? Senior year, I received an award for having the highest GPA in my major.

 

[circulus vitios]

In 7th grade, I took an SAT test without preparing for it at all, it was spur-of-the-moment, I knew about it about an hour ahead of time and didn't do any research or anything. I scored higher on it than the average person using it to apply for college in my area.

An IQ test has shown me to be in the 99.9th percentile for IQ. This is the highest result the test I was given reaches; anything further and they'd consider it to be within the margin of error for that test.

My mother's boyfriend of 8 years is an aerospace engineer who graduated Virginia Tech. At the age of 15, I understand physics better than him, and I owe very little of it to him, as he would rarely give me a decent explanation of anything, just tell me that my ideas were wrong and become aggravated with me for not quite understanding thermodynamics. He's not particularly successful as an engineer, but I've met lots of other engineers who aren't as good as me at physics, so I'm guessing that's not just a result of him being bad at it.

I'm also pretty good at engineering. I don't have a degree, and other than physics I don't have a better understanding of any aspect of engineering than any actual engineer, but I have lots of ingenuity for inventing new things. For example, I independently invented regenerative brakes before finding out what they were, and I was only seven or eight years old when I started inventing wireless electricity solutions (my first idea being to use a powerful infrared laser to transmit energy; admittedly not the best plan).

I have independently thought of basically every branch of philosophy I've come across. Every question of existentialism which I've seen discussed in SMBC or xkcd or SDN or anywhere else, the thoughts haven't been new to me. Philosophy has pretty much gotten trivial for me; I've considered taking a philosophy course just to see how easy it is.

Psychology, I actually understand better than people with degrees. Unlike engineering, there's no aspect of psychology which I don't have a very good understanding of. I can debunk many of even Sigmund Freud's theories.

I'm a good enough writer that I'm writing a book and so far everybody who's read any of it has said it was really good and plausible to expect to have published. And that's not just, like, me and family members, that counts strangers on the Internet. I've heard zero negative appraisal of it so far; people have critiqued it, but not insulted it.

I don't know if that will suffice as evidence that I'm intelligent. I'm done with it, though, because I'd rather defend my maturity, since it's what you've spent the most time attacking. The following are some examples of my morals and ethical code.

I believe firmly that everybody deserves a future. If we were to capture Hitler at the end of WWII, I would be against executing him. In fact, if we had any way of rehabilitating him and knowing that he wasn't just faking it, I'd even support the concept of letting him go free. This is essentially because I think that whoever you are in the present is a separate entity from who you were in the past and who you are in the future, and while your present self should take responsibility for your past self's actions, it shouldn't be punished for them simply for the sake of punishment, especially if the present self regrets the actions of the past self and feels genuine guilt about them.

I don't believe in judgement of people based on their personal choices as long as those personal choices aren't harming others. I don't have any issue with any type of sexuality whatsoever (short of physically acting out necrophilia, pedophilia, or other acts which have a harmful affect on others - but I don't care what a person's fantasies consist of, as long as they recognize the difference between reality and fiction and can separate them). I don't have any issue with anybody over what type of music they listen to, or clothes they wear, etc. I know that's not really an impressive moral, but it's unfortunately rare; a great many people, especially those my age, are judgmental about these things.

I love everyone, even people I hate. I wish my worst enemies good fortune and happiness. Rick Perry is a vile, piece of **** human being, deserving of zero respect, but I wish for him to change for the better and live the best life possible. I wish this for everyone.

I'm pretty much a pacifist. I've taken a broken nose without fighting back or seeking retribution, because the guy stopped punching after that. The only time I'll fight back is if 1) the person attacking me shows no signs of stopping and 2) if I don't attack, I'll come out worse than the other person will if I do. In other words, if fighting someone is going to end up being more harmful to them than just letting them go will be to me, I don't fight back. I've therefore never had a reason to fight back against anyone in anything serious, because my ability to take pain has so far made it so that I'm never in a situation where I'll be worse off after a fight. If I'm not going to get any hospitalizing injuries, I really don't care.

The only exception is if someone is going after my life. Even then, I'll do the minimum amount of harm to them that I possibly can in protecting myself. If someone points a gun at me and I can get out of it without harming them, I'd prefer to do that over killing them.

I consider myself a feminist. I don't believe in enforced or uniform gender roles; they may happen naturally, but they should never be coerced into happening unnaturally. As in, the societal pressure for gender roles should really go, even if it'll turn out that the majority of relationships continue operating the same way of their own accord. I treat women with the same outlook I treat men, and never participate in the old SDN "women are crazy" circlejerk, because there are multiple women out there and each have different personalities just like there are multiple men out there and each with different personalities. I don't think you do much of anything except scare off the awesome women out there by going on and on about the ones who aren't awesome.

That doesn't mean I look for places to victimize women, I just don't believe it's fair to make generalizations such as the one about women acting like everything's OK when it's really not (and that's a particularly harsh example, because all humans do that).

I'm kind of tired of citing these examples and I'm guessing you're getting tired of reading them, if you've even made it this far. In closing, the people who know me in real life all respect me, as do a great many people in the SDN community, where I spend most of my time and where I'm pretty known for being helpful around the community. A lot of people in my segment of the community are depressed or going through hard times, and I spend a lot of time giving advice and support to people there. Yesterday someone quoted a case of me doing this in a post asking everyone what their favorite motivational/inspirational quote was, and that comment was second to the top, so I guess other people agreed (though, granted, it was a pretty low-traffic post, only about a dozen competing comments).

 

[sliceofbread136]

This thread is so full of fail and ******ry it hurts my eyes

 

[pre med 2014]

cheating is harder than just studying for the damn test. The only way that cheating is more efficient than studying is if you hack into the university servers and physically change your grade. Which is probably illegal.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

In 7th grade, I took an SAT test without preparing for it at all, it was spur-of-the-moment, I knew about it about an hour ahead of time and didn't do any research or anything. I scored higher on it than the average person using it to apply for college in my area.

An IQ test has shown me to be in the 99.9th percentile for IQ. This is the highest result the test I was given reaches; anything further and they'd consider it to be within the margin of error for that test.

My mother's boyfriend of 8 years is an aerospace engineer who graduated Virginia Tech. At the age of 15, I understand physics better than him, and I owe very little of it to him, as he would rarely give me a decent explanation of anything, just tell me that my ideas were wrong and become aggravated with me for not quite understanding thermodynamics. He's not particularly successful as an engineer, but I've met lots of other engineers who aren't as good as me at physics, so I'm guessing that's not just a result of him being bad at it.

I'm also pretty good at engineering. I don't have a degree, and other than physics I don't have a better understanding of any aspect of engineering than any actual engineer, but I have lots of ingenuity for inventing new things. For example, I independently invented regenerative brakes before finding out what they were, and I was only seven or eight years old when I started inventing wireless electricity solutions (my first idea being to use a powerful infrared laser to transmit energy; admittedly not the best plan).

I have independently thought of basically every branch of philosophy I've come across. Every question of existentialism which I've seen discussed in SMBC or xkcd or SDN or anywhere else, the thoughts haven't been new to me. Philosophy has pretty much gotten trivial for me; I've considered taking a philosophy course just to see how easy it is.

Psychology, I actually understand better than people with degrees. Unlike engineering, there's no aspect of psychology which I don't have a very good understanding of. I can debunk many of even Sigmund Freud's theories.

I'm a good enough writer that I'm writing a book and so far everybody who's read any of it has said it was really good and plausible to expect to have published. And that's not just, like, me and family members, that counts strangers on the Internet. I've heard zero negative appraisal of it so far; people have critiqued it, but not insulted it.

I don't know if that will suffice as evidence that I'm intelligent. I'm done with it, though, because I'd rather defend my maturity, since it's what you've spent the most time attacking. The following are some examples of my morals and ethical code.

I believe firmly that everybody deserves a future. If we were to capture Hitler at the end of WWII, I would be against executing him. In fact, if we had any way of rehabilitating him and knowing that he wasn't just faking it, I'd even support the concept of letting him go free. This is essentially because I think that whoever you are in the present is a separate entity from who you were in the past and who you are in the future, and while your present self should take responsibility for your past self's actions, it shouldn't be punished for them simply for the sake of punishment, especially if the present self regrets the actions of the past self and feels genuine guilt about them.

I don't believe in judgement of people based on their personal choices as long as those personal choices aren't harming others. I don't have any issue with any type of sexuality whatsoever (short of physically acting out necrophilia, pedophilia, or other acts which have a harmful affect on others - but I don't care what a person's fantasies consist of, as long as they recognize the difference between reality and fiction and can separate them). I don't have any issue with anybody over what type of music they listen to, or clothes they wear, etc. I know that's not really an impressive moral, but it's unfortunately rare; a great many people, especially those my age, are judgmental about these things.

I love everyone, even people I hate. I wish my worst enemies good fortune and happiness. Rick Perry is a vile, piece of **** human being, deserving of zero respect, but I wish for him to change for the better and live the best life possible. I wish this for everyone.

I'm pretty much a pacifist. I've taken a broken nose without fighting back or seeking retribution, because the guy stopped punching after that. The only time I'll fight back is if 1) the person attacking me shows no signs of stopping and 2) if I don't attack, I'll come out worse than the other person will if I do. In other words, if fighting someone is going to end up being more harmful to them than just letting them go will be to me, I don't fight back. I've therefore never had a reason to fight back against anyone in anything serious, because my ability to take pain has so far made it so that I'm never in a situation where I'll be worse off after a fight. If I'm not going to get any hospitalizing injuries, I really don't care.

The only exception is if someone is going after my life. Even then, I'll do the minimum amount of harm to them that I possibly can in protecting myself. If someone points a gun at me and I can get out of it without harming them, I'd prefer to do that over killing them.

I consider myself a feminist. I don't believe in enforced or uniform gender roles; they may happen naturally, but they should never be coerced into happening unnaturally. As in, the societal pressure for gender roles should really go, even if it'll turn out that the majority of relationships continue operating the same way of their own accord. I treat women with the same outlook I treat men, and never participate in the old SDN "women are crazy" circlejerk, because there are multiple women out there and each have different personalities just like there are multiple men out there and each with different personalities. I don't think you do much of anything except scare off the awesome women out there by going on and on about the ones who aren't awesome.

That doesn't mean I look for places to victimize women, I just don't believe it's fair to make generalizations such as the one about women acting like everything's OK when it's really not (and that's a particularly harsh example, because all humans do that).

I'm kind of tired of citing these examples and I'm guessing you're getting tired of reading them, if you've even made it this far. In closing, the people who know me in real life all respect me, as do a great many people in the SDN community, where I spend most of my time and where I'm pretty known for being helpful around the community. A lot of people in my segment of the community are depressed or going through hard times, and I spend a lot of time giving advice and support to people there. Yesterday someone quoted a case of me doing this in a post asking everyone what their favorite motivational/inspirational quote was, and that comment was second to the top, so I guess other people agreed (though, granted, it was a pretty low-traffic post, only about a dozen competing comments).

You're kinda like amazing right about now lol. But seriously enough, how do you debunk Freudian theory.... other than the classy it has no statistical basis, because to be completely frank Freudian theory is still extraordinary central to mental health and it does work very well. Other than that it's all kinda metaphorical.

Er... anyway..

 

[circulus vitios]

You're kinda like amazing right about now lol. But seriously enough, how do you debunk Freudian theory.... other than the classy it has no statistical basis, because to be completely frank Freudian theory is still extraordinary central to mental health and it does work very well. Other than that it's all kinda metaphorical.

Er... anyway..

I....I didn't really write that.

 

[Josh7]

I....I didn't really write that.

It's an excellent coy pasta

 

[Ost3oclast]

I want to go to medical school. Cheating isn't going to help me get there since I may be caught or I won't learn how to effectively study/take exams. Besides, cheating now will ultimately affect patients so it really isn't ethical.


Sent from my iPod using SDN Mobile app. Please excuse the typos.

This! Cheating doesnt lead to the self confidence that studying and crushing an exam does. When you are put into a situation where you need to trust your knowledge, you wont have the confidence you should if you cheated through a class.

 

[Fivo]

You're kinda like amazing right about now lol. But seriously enough, how do you debunk Freudian theory.... other than the classy it has no statistical basis, because to be completely frank Freudian theory is still extraordinary central to mental health and it does work very well. Other than that it's all kinda metaphorical.

Er... anyway..

I really hope you didn't read all of that?

 

[phikapdoctor]

He cheated by plagiarizing that.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile app please excuse punctuation and spelling

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I really hope you didn't read all of that?

I skimmed for key words. That's how I successfully read 10+ page research articles.

 

[kasmir8199]

I'm so paranoid that someone would accuse me of cheating that I probably appear more awkward in testing situations, lol.

 

[Catman21]

Well your poll is missing a response - at least i think its an appropriate response - 90% of the time, I dont need to cheat.


edit: Its not that I'm morally against cheating or anything, I can say for sure I have at some point in my undergraduate career, but for the most part, if you can't hack it at this level, you probably wont make it through the real deal. But I can't really knock someone for trying

 

[music2doc]

I'm not going to pretend I've never thought about cheating. That time when you look at the test, realize "wtf, I don't know any of this", and want to see what someone else wrote or perhaps go outside and google a term on your phone real quick so you'll actually have a fighting chance.

This has happened to me probably 2 or 3 times in college, and what has kept me from cheating is the belief that we should be responsible for our actions and accept the consequences of our actions. If I wanted better grades I should have studied more--I have no one to blame but myself.

I think a lot of people should learn to embrace their failures. When you do something wrong, don't try to rationalize it (or cheat) to make yourself feel better. Just go ahead and let yourself feel like crap, accept that you are solely (or at least primarily) responsible for your shortcomings, and that better behaviors/decisions would have mitigated your current struggles. Make these adjustments and stuff just falls into place easier in the future, and you will have the added bonus of always knowing that you earned it all, the failures and the successes.

Absolutely. I would guess most everyone has been (or will be) in this place. I know med school has made me feel that way on some exams. You sit down and the first question is something you could easily look up online in 30 secs with your phone if you just went to the restroom. I could never bring myself to do that, though. I would feel pretty guilty for doing something like that not to mention less accomplished (i.e., couldn't be proud of my achievement on that exam) as well as the simple fact that getting caught would mean it was all over. I think all of those factors play into my decision even during the toughest of exams not to try to take advantage of any "opportunities" that may present themselves.

 

[music2doc]

You're kinda like amazing right about now lol. But seriously enough, how do you debunk Freudian theory.... other than the classy it has no statistical basis, because to be completely frank Freudian theory is still extraordinary central to mental health and it does work very well. Other than that it's all kinda metaphorical.

Er... anyway..

Ummm... no, it doesn't. It has literally NO scientific basis. The research doesn't pass scientific muster and, in fact, one could effectively argue that people who "believe" Freudian theory are what is holding psychology back from being considered a legitimate science. I wouldn't be surprised if 100 yrs down the road, psychodynamic theory had been completely discarded (instead of simply relegated largely to the "quack" zone). Behavioral and cognitive theories are much more scientifically based and have legitimate research behind them.

 

[Arbor Vitae]

What keeps me from cheating?

The fact that I don't need to.

 

[Freesia88]

I suppose this is as good a time as any to advice any of the people claiming they have no issues with cheating to be careful what they say on teh internetz if they can't stand by it in real life....

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Ummm... no, it doesn't. It has literally NO scientific basis. The research doesn't pass scientific muster and, in fact, one could effectively argue that people who "believe" Freudian theory are what is holding psychology back from being considered a legitimate science. I wouldn't be surprised if 100 yrs down the road, psychodynamic theory had been completely discarded (instead of simply relegated largely to the "quack" zone). Behavioral and cognitive theories are much more scientifically based and have legitimate research behind them.

Yes, but I have yet to see someone disprove any of Freud's theories lol. You can't disprove something that is either a metaphor or an expression of the mind. Either way, these days Psychodynamic/Psychanalytic theory is really not all that Freudian and to some degree well researched at Universities like Columbia and Maryland ( i.e Hill does a lot of research on Psychodynamic research and Therapist-Patient interactions, and published a lot of good work on it).
But obviously no one is talking about oepdipal complexes, or etc, these days, it's more or less talking about generally the fact that past experiences are important and have affected you and understanding them will help you.

 

[45408]

I didn't cheat in college because there was at least a 95% chance that I would have been looking at the test of someone who studied/knew less than I did.

But seriously, if you cheated to get into med school, you then have to live with the fact that you were unable to get into med school on your own. If you could have, you would have, but you couldn't. I like knowing that I was able to do it entirely on my own.

 

[Geebeejay]

I suppose this is as good a time as any to advice any of the people claiming they have no issues with cheating to be careful what they say on teh internetz if they can't stand by it in real life....

Yeah, because that would be.....cheating. 😱

 

[BlueCircle]

There is definitely a Hollier Than Thou attitude here on SDN. And I see various assumptions being made that are quite frankly incorrect. Those being: cheaters don't study whatsoever and expect to get by, by cheating alone and cheaters simply memorize the answers to old exams, when they are available because they are to lazy to learn the material. All of the premeds that I know (some of whom are my friends) who have cheated don't go around memorizing the answers to old tests. They use the old tests as a study tool, meaning they've done all the reading and homework that has been assigned. I don't consider that cheating in the slightest bit: teachers who don't want that occurring would simply not allow their students to keep their exams, as I've had many of my teachers do. Those that actually try to get by by memorizing old test questions are a minority of cheaters; I've only known one guy like that, a pre-pharmacy guy, who memorized old calc 1 exams and ended up with a B in the class. Needless to say this guy screwed himself over in the end because he's pretty much lost his chances at pharm school based on his success in other classes. I've also had friends who only cheated to "check their answers' after they do the work. So cheating isn't all about not knowing whatsoever going into the test. Many also only cheat to check their work. Anyway, I can proudly say that I have never cheated in college, and more for fear of getting caught than for the morality issues. The morality issues is important to me, don't get me wrong. But the fact that the consequences are so severe makes cheating that much more undesirable. Anyone who says they don't cheat solely out of respect for the moral code is not being honest with themselves. Just saying.