What makes a competitive applicant?

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Irrelevant. You are still incredibly rude. Your attitude is just so poor and you should really reevaluate yourself.

HAHAHAHA, hardly. You aren't qualified to pass judgment on me. My advice will remain salient for years. Read ANYTHING by LizzyM or the profiles of students who've won fellowships and admission to top medical schools...each example will make it very clear that:

1) Students from the tier 1--HYPMS--are evaluated differently than students from other schools. They won in high school and, assuming they don't screw anything up in college and continue to work, they're going to get in *somewhere*.
2) Students from the tier 1.5--Duke, Chicago, Columbia, etc.--have access to superb medical advising. For DETAILED proof, refer to CC posts by bluedevilmike.
3) Students who wish to attend a top school for whatever reason are well aware of the search function on these threads. My goal was to provide a CONCISE summary of the qualities, characteristics, and accomplishments needed to QUALIFY for admission at Hopkins/HMS. Most students who were successful in high school and are currently attending a tier 1 or tier 1.5 school are well aware of these traits and will basically just emulate their peers. For others who are basically unaccompanied on their journey, having a nice summary will do wonders. From there, a student five years from now searching this thread on a Google search will have enough info to then go out and find profiles of students either online or on their college campus who've basically achieved what they want to achieve, deconstruct those achievements into a nice timeline, and then make stuff happen.

.:. As NickNaylor and others have (rightly) suggested, a sexy CV alone won't assure you admission to the school of your choice. My goal was to clarify that FOR TOP STUDENTS THAT POSSESS THE PROFILES THAT ALL MEDICAL SCHOOLS WANT and WHO INTERVIEW WELL/HAVE SEMIDECENT SOCIAL SKILLS, there will ALWAYS BE SPOTS AVAILABLE. Luckily, interview skills can be learned and perfected. A school's desire to have a super-performer will always outweigh any minor personality deficiencies said performer may have.

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HAHAHAHA, hardly. You aren't qualified to pass judgment on me. My advice will remain salient for years. Read ANYTHING by LizzyM or the profiles of students who've won fellowships and admission to top medical schools...each example will make it very clear that:

1) Students from the tier 1--HYPMS--are evaluated differently than students from other schools. They won in high school and, assuming they don't screw anything up in college and continue to work, they're going to get in *somewhere*.
2) Students from the tier 1.5--Duke, Chicago, Columbia, etc.--have access to superb medical advising. For DETAILED proof, refer to CC posts by bluedevilmike.
3) Students who wish to attend a top school for whatever reason are well aware of the search function on these threads. My goal was to provide a CONCISE summary of the qualities, characteristics, and accomplishments needed to QUALIFY for admission at Hopkins/HMS. Most students who were successful in high school and are currently attending a tier 1 or tier 1.5 school are well aware of these traits and will basically just emulate their peers. For others who are basically unaccompanied on their journey, having a nice summary will do wonders. From there, a student five years from now searching this thread on a Google search will have enough info to then go out and find profiles of students either online or on their college campus who've basically achieved what they want to achieve, deconstruct those achievements into a nice timeline, and then make stuff happen.

.:. As NickNaylor and others have (rightly) suggested, a sexy CV alone won't assure you admission to the school of your choice. My goal was to clarify that FOR TOP STUDENTS THAT POSSESS THE PROFILES THAT ALL MEDICAL SCHOOLS WANT and WHO INTERVIEW WELL/HAVE SEMIDECENT SOCIAL SKILLS, there will ALWAYS BE SPOTS AVAILABLE. Luckily, interview skills can be learned and perfected. A school's desire to have a super-performer will always outweigh any minor personality deficiencies said performer may have.

I don't think you read what I posted. I said nothing of your advice. I'm concerned about your holier than though attitude based on your academics. Maybe one day you will realize there is more to life. I hope the real you shines through in interviews....
 
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Yes! This thread is one of the most entertaining things I've read this year.

So this is the most entertaining thread you've read in an one hour and thirty eight minutes? Impressive.
 
varsityblue - I have a couple cousins/distant family in medicine. All of them went to a decent undergrad (not a top tier), had around a 3.8/35, and all of them are at a top 10 medical school. I think if you go to a state school, you are expected to maintain a 3.7/3.8. I don't think you need a 40 to get into a top tier with a 3.7/3.8 though. I have seen a number of students on mdapplicants with 3.7/35s from state schools get into HMS/Upenn/Hopkins.

From all the reading on these forums that I have been doing, I have some notions on what makes a competitive applicant.

1. GPA (3.7-3.9) should suffice for the most part.
2. MCAT (34+)

I think after these two cut-offs, it really comes down to the applicant's extracurricular activities. The amazing stats (3.9+/38+) folks don't need to emphasize as much on extracurriculars. They might have some research, volunteering, teaching, etc. Those should suffice for these amazing stats folks. However, for the folks with average stats at top-tiers (3.75/3.8+, 33/34+), you need to rock your activities.

What does rocking extracurriculars mean?
To my understanding, it means showing passion for your work. Everyone can do some volunteering, trips abroad, research, tutoring, but what makes you unique among thousands of others? Are there common themes among your extracurricular activities? What are some of the issues that you have seen in medicine and how did you try to fix them?

One of the best applicant's that I know was extremely passionate about global health work. He/she started a nonprofit, received several grants to do public health teaching abroad, spent some time at a top notch medical school to do research on safer alternatives for reproductive health for women, started some partnerships, etc. All of her activities, however, had a common theme among them. He/she interviewed at every single medical school he/she applied for.

For great extracurriculars, it's important to have volunteering, teaching, and research. Along with these, you need to have the "WOW" factors. These factors, I believe, will make your application stand-out among other cookie-cutter applications with similar stats as yours.

Another thing that I have noticed that makes a difference for average stats folks is awards. If you receive the Rhodes, Goldwater, or the Truman, that's going to add to the "WOW" factors for average stats folks.

I think another "WOW" factor would be your personal statement/recommendation letters. If you have escaped a genocide or had a really difficult life, I think it will add to the factors.

Again, this is just my opinion based on a number of observations that I have made in the past couple of months. It might not be true at all.
 
lol this is coming from some 19 year old "future dermatologist" that has yet to apply and hasn't even taken the MCAT as far as we know.

There's no need to put off the inevitable. ;P
Troll....

Calm down, buddy. What you fail to realize is that I'm one of the best--if not the best--student in my class and that my graduate school options will be better than they would've been had I merely been a 3.8 nobody at another school. Had I applied to several U.S. schools as a high school senior and not been so hung up on attending medical school in the U.K. and had decided to matriculate at a top school as a frosh and not as a transfer, the situation would've been different. (In that it would've been easier to get involved and stuff.) I really believe that I wouldn't have been able to have made as much of an impact in my school community from the get-go had I transferred to another school. Moreover, I'm happy with my college choice; I attend the best college within the best university in this country.
....Troll............

People who say admissions are a crapshoot are uncompetitive applicants themselves. OP, there are active steps you can take to ensure a brighter future for yourself from day 1.
....Trollllllll..................

She started it, not me.

Aaaaaaaand troll.
 
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Mr. Stumpyman, are you calling me a troll? I don't think I'm a troll :(
 
Ebola, the quality of my ECs and current GPA creams yours in the f-ing face. My MCAT score will likely brutally rape yours. No need to get jealous because you're headed to f-ing Bama as a non-trad.

At least I'm an attractive tool, you proles. :mad:
Doubtless there are other users on SDN who could look down on your accomplishments as well, though they have the decency to keep it to themselves.
Calm down, buddy. What you fail to realize is that I'm one of the best--if not the best--student in my class and that my graduate school options will be better than they would've been had I merely been a 3.8 nobody at another school. Had I applied to several U.S. schools as a high school senior and not been so hung up on attending medical school in the U.K. and had decided to matriculate at a top school as a frosh and not as a transfer, the situation would've been different. (In that it would've been easier to get involved and stuff.) I really believe that I wouldn't have been able to have made as much of an impact in my school community from the get-go had I transferred to another school. Moreover, I'm happy with my college choice; I attend the best college within the best university in this country.
This whole post has me a bit lost now...
 
varsityblue - I have a couple cousins/distant family in medicine. All of them went to a decent undergrad (not a top tier), had around a 3.8/35, and all of them are at a top 10 medical school. I think if you go to a state school, you are expected to maintain a 3.7/3.8. I don't think you need a 40 to get into a top tier with a 3.7/3.8 though. I have seen a number of students on mdapplicants with 3.7/35s from state schools get into HMS/Upenn/Hopkins.

From all the reading on these forums that I have been doing, I have some notions on what makes a competitive applicant.

1. GPA (3.7-3.9) should suffice for the most part.
2. MCAT (34+)

I think after these two cut-offs, it really comes down to the applicant's extracurricular activities. The amazing stats (3.9+/38+) folks don't need to emphasize as much on extracurriculars. They might have some research, volunteering, teaching, etc. Those should suffice for these amazing stats folks. However, for the folks with average stats at top-tiers (3.75/3.8+, 33/34+), you need to rock your activities.

What does rocking extracurriculars mean?
To my understanding, it means showing passion for your work. Everyone can do some volunteering, trips abroad, research, tutoring, but what makes you unique among thousands of others? Are there common themes among your extracurricular activities? What are some of the issues that you have seen in medicine and how did you try to fix them?

One of the best applicant's that I know was extremely passionate about global health work. He/she started a nonprofit, received several grants to do public health teaching abroad, spent some time at a top notch medical school to do research on safer alternatives for reproductive health for women, started some partnerships, etc. All of her activities, however, had a common theme among them. He/she interviewed at every single medical school he/she applied for.

For great extracurriculars, it's important to have volunteering, teaching, and research. Along with these, you need to have the "WOW" factors. These factors, I believe, will make your application stand-out among other cookie-cutter applications with similar stats as yours.

Another thing that I have noticed that makes a difference for average stats folks is awards. If you receive the Rhodes, Goldwater, or the Truman, that's going to add to the "WOW" factors for average stats folks.

I think another "WOW" factor would be your personal statement/recommendation letters. If you have escaped a genocide or had a really difficult life, I think it will add to the factors.

Again, this is just my opinion based on a number of observations that I have made in the past couple of months. It might not be true at all.

Your EC guidelines are spot on but numerous other threads have shown that the threshold minimums are 3.8 and 38 for top 5s. LizzyM states that state school applicants need a 3.7 and a 37 to get an interview at top 20s.
 
Your EC guidelines are spot on but numerous other threads have shown that the threshold minimums are 3.8 and 38 for top 5s. LizzyM states that state school applicants need a 3.7 and a 37 to get an interview at top 20s.

SWEET! MY 3.97 AND 37R SHOULD GET ME AN INTERVIEW ANYWHERE O MY GOSH I SHOULD QUIT SCHOOL HARGJLAGJKLFJG;L. It's not that simple and I've had too much tequila....
 
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Well you are a troll! How long is your beard?

How about I bet you and anyone else that's interested my entire trust fund that following my advice will get me in at least one of Harvard, Hopkins, Penn, or UCSF by March 2014? :)

While I'm at it, I'll also bet my entire stock portfolio that I'll earn above a 40 on my MCAT. Feel free to PM me if you're interested in getting details.
 
How about I bet you and anyone else that's interested my entire trust fund that following my advice will get me in at least one of Harvard, Hopkins, Penn, or UCSF by March 2014? :)

While I'm at it, I'll also bet my entire stock portfolio that I'll earn above a 40 on my MCAT. Feel free to PM me if you're interested in getting details.

You're so cool! Get a clue, no one cares! Also, premed isn't hard, it's just about how much you study! Find something else to hang your hat on please!
 
Wow, amazing observation! Weren't you the one that derailed it?
I said post, not thread. Your individual post confused me because I don't know all of your personal history.
Your EC guidelines are spot on but numerous other threads have shown that the threshold minimums are 3.8 and 38 for top 5s. LizzyM states that state school applicants need a 3.7 and a 37 to get an interview at top 20s.
No and no.
How about I bet you and anyone else that's interested my entire trust fund that following my advice will get me in at least one of Harvard, Hopkins, Penn, or UCSF by March 2014? :)

While I'm at it, I'll also bet my entire stock portfolio that I'll earn above a 40 on my MCAT. Feel free to PM me if you're interested in getting details.
We need fewer users like you on this site.
 
sliceofbread and varsityblue - you guys are really embarrassing yourselves on a forum. Please go to bed. I am thinking you might regret this later. Happy New Year!
 
sliceofbread and varsityblue - you guys are really embarrassing yourselves on a forum. Please go to bed. I am thinking you might regret this later. Happy New Year!

This is an anonymous forum wtf do I care for? And I'm having a good time. Happy new years to you too!
 
I said post, not thread. Your individual post confused me because I don't know all of your personal history.

No and no.

We need fewer users like you on this site.

1) Thanks for the clarification. As Skinceutical pointed out in a PM, I probably shouldn't have disclosed that much information. My goal in that post was to apply my own experience with the increasingly competitive transfer admission process--Columbia's 6%, Penn's 4%, Yale's 2%--as it applied to someone considering going through the process. I spent hours slaving away writing essays and I was obviously disgruntled that someone who appeared to want to get in HC hadn't even done BASIC prelim research before asking others. /endrant
2) Do a search history of LizzyM's posts in her "ask me anything" thread. When asked a question about what kind of stats a state school applicant would need, she replied "37" and "3.7".
3) I'd like to make it very, very clear that I have been absolutely nothing but respectful, helpful, and courteous to all except when provoked by ill-meaning flamers.
4) I'd also like to clarify that when I referred to Ebola's "crapshoot" comment, I meant the linkage between college and medical school admissions. Read http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/is-ug-ivy-acceptance-a-crapshoot, any CC thread on the topic, and an article by Yale's current President about its undergraduate admissions.
5) I'll state again: I haven't yet completed the process but my examinations of profiles of students who have a la extensive interviews and Studyhacks profiling, I'm fairly certain that possessing the right mix of both academics and ec's will land applicants a place at an amazing med school.
6) I don't want to continue to attract this much controversy for stating--what seem to me, a veteran CC user with over 4,000 posts, a 2390, a row of perfect AP, A-level, and SAT II scores--blatantly obvious facts. That said,
a) Ebola, I'm sorry for making you defensive. Your experience with medical school admissions doesn't include a single top school.
b) Jake or whatever from the Virginity thread, I'm far from naive.
 
My advice is salient.

Anyway, I should probably go to bed...I have to wake up in an hour to drive back to campus. #fml Happy New Year, everyone. Drink responsibly.

I pull 350x4 and play a mean tristana on LoL. I bet you can't even drive stick shift!
 
1) Thanks for the clarification. As Skinceutical pointed out in a PM, I probably shouldn't have disclosed that much information. My goal in that post was to apply my own experience with the increasingly competitive transfer admission process--Columbia's 6%, Penn's 4%, Yale's 2%--as it applied to someone considering going through the process. I spent hours slaving away writing essays and I was obviously disgruntled that someone who appeared to want to get in HC hadn't even done BASIC prelim research before asking others. /endrant
2) Do a search history of LizzyM's posts in her "ask me anything" thread. When asked a question about what kind of stats a state school applicant would need, she replied "37" and "3.7".
3) I'd like to make it very, very clear that I have been absolutely nothing but respectful, helpful, and courteous to all except when provoked by ill-meaning flamers.
4) I'd also like to clarify that when I referred to Ebola's "crapshoot" comment, I meant the linkage between college and medical school admissions. Read http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/is-ug-ivy-acceptance-a-crapshoot, any CC thread on the topic, and an article by Yale's current President about its undergraduate admissions.
5) I'll state again: I haven't yet completed the process but my examinations of profiles of students who have a la extensive interviews and Studyhacks profiling, I'm fairly certain that possessing the right mix of both academics and ec's will land applicants a place at an amazing med school.
6) I don't want to continue to attract this much controversy for stating--what seem to me, a veteran CC user with over 4,000 posts, a 2390, a row of perfect AP, A-level, and SAT II scores--blatantly obvious facts. That said,
a) Ebola, I'm sorry for making you defensive. Your experience with medical school admissions doesn't include a single top school.
b) Jake or whatever from the Virginity thread, I'm far from naive.


Hahaha. You are funny. :)
 
2) Do a search history of LizzyM's posts in her "ask me anything" thread. When asked a question about what kind of stats a state school applicant would need, she replied "37" and "3.7".
I can't find any such statement from LizzyM, and I doubt she would ever posit such numbers as "thresholds" as you have. If you disagree feel free to provide a link to the supposed posts you're referencing.
5) I'll state again: I haven't yet completed the process but my examinations of profiles of students who have a la extensive interviews and Studyhacks profiling, I'm fairly certain that possessing the right mix of both academics and ec's will land applicants a place at an amazing med school.
In general, yes (though that is a very simplified description.) However, the idea that one can ensure a definite acceptance at a particular school or a particular range (Top X) is very easily disprovable.
6) I don't want to continue to attract this much controversy for stating--what seem to me, a veteran CC user with over 4,000 posts, a 2390, a row of perfect AP, A-level, and SAT II scores--blatantly obvious facts.
Nice stealth bragging.
 
Ebola, the quality of my ECs and current GPA creams yours in the f-ing face. My MCAT score will likely brutally rape yours. No need to get jealous because you're headed to f-ing Bama as a non-trad.

At least I'm an attractive tool, you proles. :mad:

For those who don't know what a 'prole' is(Not going to lie, I had to look it up):

A prole is a proletarian, a proletarian is part of the proletariat, which is the lowest economic class in a society.

(Source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prole)

You'd be an attractive tool if you could at least feign having restraint and have a little more class about it. x/
 
How about I bet you and anyone else that's interested my entire trust fund that following my advice will get me in at least one of Harvard, Hopkins, Penn, or UCSF by March 2014? :)

While I'm at it, I'll also bet my entire stock portfolio that I'll earn above a 40 on my MCAT. Feel free to PM me if you're interested in getting details.

Well, well, well.:)

Your entire trust fund may be zero or could be arranged to be so by March 2014; most probably you have no authority to bet your trust fund, and the trustee of your trust fund will go to prison if they allow you to bet your trust fund which will be contrary to their fiduciary duty. Trustees are appointed exactly to avoid irresponsible financal behavior you are exhibiting here.:p

Your entire stock portfolio may be zero as well, and much easier to be manipulated to be zero by March 2014. Supposing that your stock portfolio is under your management, that is it is not part of trust fund, are you willing to put that in escrow account?:smuggrin:

Let us all know how much is in your trust fund and stock portfolio before.
Now that would be irresponsible for you to post it here, but without actual numbers your bet is phantom.:(
 
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If you're from a non-tier 1 or 1.5 school, I'd argue that a GPA above 3.8, a MCAT score above 40, amazing LORs, the required 60 hours of shadowing/150 hours of clinical experience, and baller EC's will ensure admission into HMS.

If you're from a tier 1 (HYPMS) or 1.5 school, you'd probably get in with a 3.6 and a MCAT above 36 but you'd still need great LORs, clinical experience/shadowing, and ECs.

varsityblue: My experience applying this cycle has informed me that while SDN is a rich resource for applicants, there is a fair amount of inaccurate, confidence-killing information being passed around. I am not URM, attended an unranked/bottom tier state school, have cumulative and science GPAs significantly lower than 3.7 and a retake MCAT score much lower than 33. However I've received several MD acceptances, including a top 10 school, and have turned down several interviews. This outcome was impossible according to many SDN posts like yours, which insisted that schools had selective screens that would surely cull out applications like mine. While cut-offs may exist, I think they are - in reality - relatively low as to allow applicants to demonstrate their worth beyond numbers. So while high stats may go far in assuring interviews/acceptances, my experience suggests that acceptance at top 10/20/whatever is still viable for less accomplished applicants who can articulate a compelling passion for medicine on paper and in person.
 
Ebola, the quality of my ECs and current GPA creams yours in the f-ing face. My MCAT score will likely brutally rape yours. No need to get jealous because you're headed to f-ing Bama as a non-trad.

At least I'm an attractive tool, you proles. :mad:

Maybe. But I'm not a douche, so it evens out.
 
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Well, well, well.:)

Your entire trust fund may be zero or could be arranged to be so by March 2014; most probably you have no authority to bet your trust fund, and the trustee of your trust fund will go to prison if they allow you to bet your trust fund which will be contrary to their fiduciary duty. Trustees are appointed exactly to avoid irresponsible financal behavior you are exhibiting here.:p

Your entire stock portfolio may be zero as well, and much easier to be manipulated to be zero by March 2014. Supposing that your stock portfolio is under your management, that is it is not part of trust fund, are you willing to put that in escrow account?:smuggrin:

Let us all know how much is in your trust fund and stock portfolio before.
Now that would be irresponsible for you to post it here, but without actual numbers your bet is phantom.:(

Hahaha, I like you. :thumbup:
 
varsityblue: My experience applying this cycle has informed me that while SDN is a rich resource for applicants, there is a fair amount of inaccurate, confidence-killing information being passed around. I am not URM, attended an unranked/bottom tier state school, have cumulative and science GPAs significantly lower than 3.7 and a retake MCAT score much lower than 33. However I've received several MD acceptances, including a top 10 school, and have turned down several interviews. This outcome was impossible according to many SDN posts like yours, which insisted that schools had selective screens that would surely cull out applications like mine. While cut-offs may exist, I think they are - in reality - relatively low as to allow applicants to demonstrate their worth beyond numbers. So while high stats may go far in assuring interviews/acceptances, my experience suggests that acceptance at top 10/20/whatever is still viable for less accomplished applicants who can articulate a compelling passion for medicine on paper and in person.

I haven't gone through the process yet. As others will note about their own experiences, there is room for everyone who qualifies at a medical school and who the adcom feels would make a good doctor. I also don't think adcoms will discriminate against applicants who come from schools with less-established ties to the institution (n=1); the prestige of the institution helps some but doesn't compensate for poor performance. My feeling is that when an adcom sees a candidate that presents what they see as a "mediocre" portfolio by SDN standards--that is likely higher than the average non-SDNer--but who expresses a commitment and passion for medicine that may not be conveyed by those who in it for the wrong reasons, they will admit said candidate. This may or may not explain your success. Not everyone may have the great bedside manner you probably do, for example. ;)

My estimation is that, for people who want to have a very good idea of what the top 0.1% of applicants look like, the characteristics/CVs of the kinds of things highlighted in this thread may be somewhat useful. As you can see from my previous posts, I believe confidence is key to win in top 10 admissions. For top 3-5 admissions, which is what this thread is about, I see things as an entirely different ballgame. (Which doesn't mean that other people see it the same way, obviously...)
 
lol varsity if you don't have any publications, then you are not a lock for any top 5 school. end of story. better get some pubs in toronto.
 
i'm going to shake my head if they are not science-related.
 
Ebola is female. She started the flame war with me in the "what do you look for in a school" thread.

In my eyes everyone on the internet is male. Why bring it into another thread? Why be outright insulting? Why not be the bigger man and let it go?
 
Wait just a minute here. I am not pointing fingers but when you say your ECs are better than someone else's, are you implying that you are not doing them out of genuine interest or would not have done them if not applying to medical school? If so, none of should ever be doctors! You are terrible human beings. :scared:

Just kidding.
 
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