What matters the most to medical schools?

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xnfs93hy

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I don't mean Harvard or Dartmouth. I mean like University of Kentucky medical school. I think UK medical school is ranked around the middle as far as Primary Care and Research are concerned.

What I mean by what matters.

I'll take collegeconfidential.com as an example. If you go over there they have a forum where you basically post your high school resume and people tell you your chances. There are people on there that are even more neurotic than my classes possible valedictorian.

I mean, they do so much stuff that it almost seems like it is impossible to do everything they list. Like:

4 years band conductor
2350 SAT I
32 ACT
1000 volunteer hours
science competition.

20 AP classes
All honors.


I mean, what the hell??? How can you even do all that!?

Usually these people are focusing on top 20 schools and the Ivies.

I've basically come to the conclusion that I am smart but not insanely smart. I admit I'm neurotic and an overachiever but I really hope that this is not what it takes to get into a med school like UMDNJ or University of Missouri or University of Kentucky, etc.

I'm not saying that this stuff isn't great, its awesome. I wish I could take all those AP's and stuff.


So my question really just comes down to:

Is this what it takes to get into medical school or just an Ivy or "top 20" med school?

If I have a GOOD (not insane) college resume, do you think I could get into University of Missouri or Kentucky, etc. and get into a competitive residency?

and

Ultimately, does it matter more where you did you fellowship and residency than where you went to UG and Med school?


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Medical School applications are going to be competitive.

First misconception, don't think UK and Mizzou are going to jump at your app if you aren't a state resident. Most state funded medical schools are very biased towards their in state residents and while their admissions criteria might be a bit lower if you're a resident, you'll need some pretty impressive stats to get one of those 5 spare seats they let out-of-state students pay double tuition for. This varies by state of course, but in plenty of states, OOS students need not apply.

Keys to a Med School Application:

GPA-
The average is probably about a 3.6 currently. No clue what it will be when you're applying. In college, straight A's are hard to get so guard this well.

MCAT-
Big test for an important number, do well.

Shadowing and other Clinical Experience-
They want to know you know what it's like to be a doctor. Get plenty of hours of experience. LORs help.


Less important, but don't neglect:
Letters of Recommendation-
What does the faculty have to say about you?

Volunteering-
The obligatory altruism stuff.
 
Depakote said:
Medical School applications are going to be competitive.

First misconception, don't think UK and Mizzou are going to jump at your app if you aren't a state resident. Most state funded medical schools are very biased towards their in state residents and while their admissions criteria might be a bit lower if you're a resident, you'll need some pretty impressive stats to get one of those 5 spare seats they let out-of-state students pay double tuition for. This varies by state of course, but in plenty of states, OOS students need not apply.

Keys to a Med School Application:

GPA-
The average is probably about a 3.6 currently. No clue what it will be when you're applying. In college, straight A's are hard to get so guard this well.

MCAT-
Big test for an important number, do well.

Shadowing and other Clinical Experience-
They want to know you know what it's like to be a doctor. Get plenty of hours of experience. LORs help.


Less important, but don't neglect:
Letters of Recommendation-
What does the faculty have to say about you?

Volunteering-
The obligatory altruism stuff.
Click to expand...

Well it depends where I go, NJ doesn't have great medical schools. If I get accepted to U of Missouri, Minnesota, U of K, etc. then more than likely I will start living off campus after freshman year but if I got an apartment in Minnesota, would I still be a NJ resident? I guess I will have to make it so my apartment in MN is my primary residence. Right?

What is the deal with this OOS thing? You said five seats. I'm assuming that means a pretty small number of slots or literally five seats. Basically, should I apply OOS or not?
 
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jefgreen said:
Well it depends where I go, NJ doesn't have great medical schools. If I get accepted to U of Missouri, Minnesota, U of K, etc. then more than likely I will start living off campus after freshman year but if I got an apartment in Minnesota, would I still be a NJ resident? I guess I will have to make it so my apartment in MN is my primary residence. Right?

What is the deal with this OOS thing? You said five seats. I'm assuming that means a pretty small number of slots or literally five seats. Basically, should I apply OOS or not?
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It depends on the state and the school. Ohio has a lot of state schools and welcomes a lot of OOS students. Maryland pretty much doesn't let any OOS students in.

To establish residency in a state, you generally not only need physical residence (an apartment) but you can't be paying taxes or the dependent of someone in a state that does. So if you go OOS to school but your parents still claim you as a dependent you'd still likely be considered a NJ resident.

Side note: NJ has 3 state medical schools in the UMDNJ system 2 MD and 1 DO, they're not bad schools.
 
Side note: NJ has 3 state medical schools in the UMDNJ system 2 MD and 1 DO, they're not bad schools.
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There's no such thing as a "not great" medical school in the U.S. or Canada, in my opinion. They'll all give you world-class educations.

To establish residency in a state, you generally not only need physical residence (an apartment) but you can't be paying taxes or the dependent of someone in a state that does.
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Many (most?) states also require you to pay taxes, have a job, live there for a certain amount of time (usually a year), and jump through a bunch of other hoops to estavlish residency.
 
MilkmanAl said:
There's no such thing as a "not great" medical school in the U.S. or Canada, in my opinion. They'll all give you world-class educations.

Many (most?) states also require you to pay taxes, have a job, live there for a certain amount of time (usually a year), and jump through a bunch of other hoops to estavlish residency.
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:thumbup: both are good points.
 
MilkmanAl said:
There's no such thing as a "not great" medical school in the U.S. or Canada, in my opinion. They'll all give you world-class educations.
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Agreed. Unlike college, where there are thousands of schools and thus there is a big range in quality, there are only 120 or so US allo med schools and each only has about 150 seats on average. So all are top notch and the range from the "best" to "worst" is pretty nominal. All are solid launching pads to any specialty residency, and all reject far more college hopefuls than they accept. So I wouldn't cast aspersions at any -- you will very likely be working with or for folks who graduated from many of these schools.
 
Ok. I have another question. I am a NJ resident so lets say I attend University of Missouri or University of Kentucky (schools I will most likely get into in 2010. I take all my pre reqs. etc. Would I be at an advantage in any way if I went to one of these schools and wanted to go their med school? Would it give me any advantage at all? Just curious because I think Rutgers and UMDNJ are partners or something and there are a bunch of people who go through Rutgers pre med then go to UMDNJ. I don't know, they have like a partnership of some kind.
 
jefgreen said:
Ok. I have another question. I am a NJ resident so lets say I attend University of Missouri or University of Kentucky (schools I will most likely get into in 2010. I take all my pre reqs. etc. Would I be at an advantage in any way if I went to one of these schools and wanted to go their med school? Would it give me any advantage at all? Just curious because I think Rutgers and UMDNJ are partners or something and there are a bunch of people who go through Rutgers pre med then go to UMDNJ. I don't know, they have like a partnership of some kind.
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some schools have linkage programs.

Outside an official linkage program it gets fuzzy. I'd be willing to guess that the high percentage would be due to people in undergrad setting up their own ties to the med school while in college. So you might start doing research with a med school prof your sophomore year or have shadowed and gotten a letter of rec from a med school attending, that might have some additional pull, but it's nothing official. Also, if it's familiar, a student might be inclined to go to the place they know (esp if it's cheaper).


(without being a state resident, pretty much all bets are off)
 
Depakote said:
some schools have linkage programs.

Outside an official linkage program it gets fuzzy. I'd be willing to guess that the high percentage would be due to people in undergrad setting up their own ties to the med school while in college. So you might start doing research with a med school prof your sophomore year or have shadowed and gotten a letter of rec from a med school attending, that might have some additional pull, but it's nothing official. Also, if it's familiar, a student might be inclined to go to the place they know (esp if it's cheaper).


(without being a state resident, pretty much all bets are off)
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Really? That stinks. So what you are basically saying is unless I get a 4.0 I might have to settle for UMDNJ (granted I get in)? Again, I'm not saying that UMDNJ is a bad school. I'd rather go somewhere else.
 
Depakote said:
some schools have linkage programs.

Outside an official linkage program it gets fuzzy. I'd be willing to guess that the high percentage would be due to people in undergrad setting up their own ties to the med school while in college. So you might start doing research with a med school prof your sophomore year or have shadowed and gotten a letter of rec from a med school attending, that might have some additional pull, but it's nothing official. Also, if it's familiar, a student might be inclined to go to the place they know (esp if it's cheaper).


(without being a state resident, pretty much all bets are off)
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Just curious. What medical school do you go to? and are you a resident of the state in which your medical school is in?
 
jefgreen said:
Just curious. What medical school do you go to? and are you a resident of the state in which your medical school is in?
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Interestingly enough I go to a state school in Ohio, I was a MO state resident and didn't get into Mizzou.

Ohio is one of the rare states where OOS students are make up a significant portion of the class size (~40%) and they'll let you become in state after your first year. I'm now an Ohio resident.
 
Depakote said:
Interestingly enough I go to a state school in Ohio, I was a MO state resident and didn't get into Mizzou.

Ohio is one of the rare states where OOS students are make up a significant portion of the class size (~40%) and they'll let you become in state after your first year. I'm now an Ohio resident.
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How ironic:rolleyes:. I assume you mean Mizzou med school and not UG. What Ohio med school? OSU?
 
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Let me ask you another question. Lets say I go to a university with their own medical school, would I have a good chance of getting in or does it really still depend on state residency?

I don't think I'll be gunning for the "top" med schools either because med school is probably much harder than grad school.
 
jefgreen said:
Let me ask you another question. Lets say I go to a university with their own medical school, would I have a good chance of getting in or does it really still depend on state residency?

I don't think I'll be gunning for the "top" med schools either because med school is probably much harder than grad school.
Click to expand...

going to the affiliated school is far from a sure bet.

State residency is an important factor in determining how many seats you're competing for (x # of seats reserved for in-state residents). Once you apply, they'll look at your GPA and your MCAT, plus the other aspects of your file. Whether you went to the affiliated school or not is only going to tangentially apply. As I mentioned above, it could help in that you might be able to take advantage of research and shadowing opportunities which would make you familiar to staff members but simply having attended X school's undergrad will probably not help you get into X medical school.

As for what makes you competitive for Medical School, the most important factors are your GPA and MCAT, the difference between at "Top" medical school and an "unranked" medical school are only a few average MCAT and tenths of a GPA point. Also the rankings favor research so your higher ranked schools will want you to have performed research in undergrad. The point I'm making now is that trying to figure out which medical schools you'll be competitive for before you've started college is pointless. You could wind up with a 4.0 and a 40+ MCAT, bang out a couple of research publications in which case the "top" medical schools will be fighting over you. Conversely, you could struggle with the basic sciences, wind up with a sub 3.0 GPA and an MCAT in the low 20's and have to spend a few years pulling both those up in order to even have a shot.

Just focus on the task at hand for now and try to figure out where you're going to college... Then worry about med school.
 
Depakote said:
going to the affiliated school is far from a sure bet.

State residency is an important factor in determining how many seats you're competing for (x # of seats reserved for in-state residents). Once you apply, they'll look at your GPA and your MCAT, plus the other aspects of your file. Whether you went to the affiliated school or not is only going to tangentially apply. As I mentioned above, it could help in that you might be able to take advantage of research and shadowing opportunities which would make you familiar to staff members but simply having attended X school's undergrad will probably not help you get into X medical school.

As for what makes you competitive for Medical School, the most important factors are your GPA and MCAT, the difference between at "Top" medical school and an "unranked" medical school are only a few average MCAT and tenths of a GPA point. Also the rankings favor research so your higher ranked schools will want you to have performed research in undergrad. The point I'm making now is that trying to figure out which medical schools you'll be competitive for before you've started college is pointless. You could wind up with a 4.0 and a 40+ MCAT, bang out a couple of research publications in which case the "top" medical schools will be fighting over you. Conversely, you could struggle with the basic sciences, wind up with a sub 3.0 GPA and an MCAT in the low 20's and have to spend a few years pulling both those up in order to even have a shot.

Just focus on the task at hand for now and try to figure out where you're going to college... Then worry about med school.
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Yeah I know but my GPA is so low. I don't even know if I can get into Rutgers: NB uggghhhh. I could get into University of Kentucky though but now that you told me all this OOS med school stuff now I'm thinking about changing my mind :/
 
jefgreen said:
Yeah I know but my GPA is so low. I don't even know if I can get into Rutgers: NB uggghhhh. I could get into University of Kentucky though but now that you told me all this OOS med school stuff now I'm thinking about changing my mind :/
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Just go to college and do well, and then apply widely and broadly, but don't overlook your home state school. You only need to get into one and you can use it as a springboard to whatever career you desire if you do well enough. Doing well in any 4 year university and then any US allo med school and you are golden. I don't know why you guys are all bashing the NJ schools -- I know quite a few folks in very good residencies who came out of those state colleges and med schools. It's hardly a death sentence. This is a race you have to run on your own and your school is neither going to win the race nor lose it for you. Will you have an easier path if you are coming out of Harvard with A's than Rutgers? Sure. Does that mean you can't end up in the exact same place years later? No.
 
jefgreen said:
Yeah I know but my GPA is so low. I don't even know if I can get into Rutgers: NB uggghhhh. I could get into University of Kentucky though but now that you told me all this OOS med school stuff now I'm thinking about changing my mind :/
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Do you mind sharing what your GPA is? I am a Rutgers student so I might be able to tell you what your chances are. I thought I wouldn't really get into Rutgers NB either because my GPA and SAT scores weren't too great but I still got in. Rutgers basically looks at your GPA and SAT scores and they don't care much about anything else. Also, Rutgers does have a combined program with UMDNJ and RWJ but of course they are extremely competitive.
 
Depakote said:
Shadowing and other Clinical Experience-
They want to know you know what it's like to be a doctor. Get plenty of hours of experience. LORs help.
Click to expand...


I would like to know what a LOR is because I'm a Sophmore in HS and i want to start shadowing to see if this really is something I would like to do. And good luck Jeff.
 
poiuyt123 said:
Do you mind sharing what your GPA is? I am a Rutgers student so I might be able to tell you what your chances are. I thought I wouldn't really get into Rutgers NB either because my GPA and SAT scores weren't too great but I still got in. Rutgers basically looks at your GPA and SAT scores and they don't care much about anything else. Also, Rutgers does have a combined program with UMDNJ and RWJ but of course they are extremely competitive.
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Its around a 3.0. Once I graduate I might have like a 3.4, idk. I don't know what you mean by combined program. Why don't they look at anything else, thats stupid. I have tons of volunteer work, will that even matter?:(
 
MedHopeful93 said:
I would like to know what a LOR is because I'm a Sophmore in HS and i want to start shadowing to see if this really is something I would like to do. And good luck Jeff.
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LOR=Letter of Recommendation. and Thanks!
 
poiuyt123 said:
Do you mind sharing what your GPA is? I am a Rutgers student so I might be able to tell you what your chances are. I thought I wouldn't really get into Rutgers NB either because my GPA and SAT scores weren't too great but I still got in. Rutgers basically looks at your GPA and SAT scores and they don't care much about anything else. Also, Rutgers does have a combined program with UMDNJ and RWJ but of course they are extremely competitive.
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OOOH, that, yeah, I have no chance at one of those, nor do I want to be in one. I'm guessing its one of those 7 year M.D things?

I just plan to go through the regular admissions cycle.
 
jefgreen said:
Its around a 3.0. Once I graduate I might have like a 3.4, idk. I don't know what you mean by combined program. Why don't they look at anything else, thats stupid. I have tons of volunteer work, will that even matter?:(
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Anything around 3.2+ will probably be good enough to get in. I don't really know why they don't care much about EC's. Your volunteer work won't have much of an impact but it might give you slight if any advantage over other applicants.
 
jefgreen said:
OOOH, that, yeah, I have no chance at one of those, nor do I want to be in one. I'm guessing its one of those 7 year M.D things?

I just plan to go through the regular admissions cycle.
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I'm not talking about the 7 year programs where you go straight from high school. I'm talking the programs where you apply after sophomore year in college and its kind of like an early acceptance into medical school. Check this website out: http://lifesci.rutgers.edu/~hpo/BAMD.htm
 
poiuyt123 said:
Actually there a lot of colleges out there that do care about ECs, but Rutgers just isn't one of them.
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Yes, I'm aware. I just think it's kind of ridiculous to evaluate high school students on their extracurricular activities. I doubt many high school EC's are significant enough to consider beyond "Oh, John Smith did x," especially for the bulk of applicants to the schools that care about EC's. That is, "I worked through high school to support my family" is probably pretty atypical for someone applying to, say, Princeton. "I stood around a soup kitchen and did as little as possible" is much more likely.
 
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