What minimum LizzyM constitutes a high stat applicant?

[bae2017]

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I 100% agree that those things happened are wrong, and I firmly believe that an African American or Hispanic or whatever else ethnicity constitutes URM status with high stats and better ECs than me should get accepted over me. But someone with an MCAT of 500 and a 3.3 GPA should not be sitting on 5+ IIs right now because of their skin color. Everybody wants to eliminate discrimination and racism, but in order to do that youve got to eliminate it from both sides.

Let me ask you - what is the purpose of a doctor in society? Presumably to protect the health and well-being of the citizens - all the citizens - of that society, right? So then when medical schools ask themselves - what does it mean to produce good doctors and how do we select them from our gigantic applicant pools? - you have to understand that creating a population of good doctors is not always going to be an easy task in which you can just take the applicants with the highest scores and those who have checked the boxes the best. You have to consider differential access to resources that might provide context for those applications, as well as how they're going to fit into the future healthcare system.

Historically, and presently, medicine in the US has been dominated by white and Asian people. This is a problem, as we have seen, time and time again, because it ultimately manifests itself in the form of injustice. If you don't know what I'm talking about, you can refer to Tuskegee, or the myriad of scientific literature that justified slavery by arguing that Black people had higher pain tolerance, or the story of Henrietta Lacks. If we truly want to create doctors who will be good doctors - those who will care for and protect the health of all citizens - that necessarily requires a population of diverse doctors, with diverse interests and diverse backgrounds.

 

[gonnif]

Not necessarily.

By “those communities”, I am trying to reference communities with high black/Latin populations. I believe that we’ve generally defeated the purpose of affirmative action if the people benefitting from it do not make an attempt to revitalize the communities that caused affirmative action to become a thing in the first place.

Or we reinforce the concept that only "those" doctors should only "work" in those communities, there by perpetuating the idea of segregated communities, perhaps a separate but equal by societal forces, which occurs far too much.

 

[mydogmolly]

I swear this forum could turn a thread about the merits of granny smith's vs. fuji apples into a URM debate.

 

[DPTinthemaking15]

I swear this forum could turn a thread about the merits of granny smith's vs. fuji apples into a URM debate.

I'm a Fuji apple kind of guy... But if you look closely, you can tell that the Granny Smith apples oppress the Fuji apples. Darn Granny Smith apples! Always taking sales away from the poor Fujis.

 

[gonnif]

I swear this forum could turn a thread about the merits of granny smith's vs. fuji apples into a URM debate.

Granny Smith? are you implying an age discrimination based on the common slang for a Grandmother or perhaps gender discrimination for females
Fuji? Pacific Islanders are a recognized US Census classification and a URM
Whats next? Macintosh for Scottish preference? Red Delicious as a color identity ?

(humorous but true story. had a female senior manager who once overhear a male supervisor call a young asian woman "honey." The female senior manager started ripping into the supervisor for using such a term until the young asian woman informed her that was her name, translated from the Chinese along the lines "sweet as bee nectar." )

 

[Goro]

I swear this forum could turn a thread about the merits of granny smith's vs. fuji apples into a URM debate.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

[DPTinthemaking15]

Granny Smith? are you imply an age discrimination based on the common slang for a Grandmother or perhaps gender discrimination for females
Fuji? Pacific Islanders are a recognized US Census classification and a URM
Whats next? Macintosh for Scottish preference? Red Delicious as a color identity ?

(humorous but true story. had a female senior manager who once overhear a male supervisor call a young asian woman "honey." The female senior manager started ripping into the supervisor for using such a term until the young asian woman informed her that was her name, translated from the Chinese along the lines "sweet as bee nectar." )

Crap... I would be in all kinds of trouble. In the south I'm used to "Sugar, honey, sweetie, and the ever so sweet, darlin."

 

[mydogmolly]

Granny Smith? are you imply an age discrimination based on the common slang for a Grandmother or perhaps gender discrimination for females
Fuji? Pacific Islanders are a recognized US Census classification and a URM
Whats next? Macintosh for Scottish preference? Red Delicious as a color identity ?

(humorous but true story. had a female senior manager who once overhear a male supervisor call a young asian woman "honey." The female senior manager started ripping into the supervisor for using such a term until the young asian woman informed her that was her name, translated from the Chinese along the lines "sweet as bee nectar." )

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOO @gonnif always dropping the awesome stories.

 

[Davemed]

One cannot begrudge any URM applicant that has had to excel to get to where they are. Our country definitely needs a diverse work force. However, I do believe that economic status should play a role in deciding URM vs ORM. I know of poor rural Caucasian kids who had a difficult upbringing, but worked multiple jobs to get them through high school and college and yet are ORM when they apply to med schools. Same with Asian kids, whose parents came to the US with hardly any money, struggled to make a better life for themselves and pushed their kids to study hard, only for those kids to be considered ORM while applying to med schools.

 

[Orthopedics101]

One cannot begrudge any URM applicant that has had to excel to get to where they are. Our country definitely needs a diverse work force. However, I do believe that economic status should play a role in deciding URM vs ORM. I know of poor rural Caucasian kids who had a difficult upbringing, but worked multiple jobs to get them through high school and college and yet are ORM when they apply to med schools. Same with Asian kids, whose parents came to the US with hardly any money, struggled to make a better life for themselves and pushed their kids to study hard, only for those kids to be considered ORM while applying to med schools.

You seem to be missing the point of designating some ORM and others URM. URM means that a particular ethnicity’s representation in Medicine does not match its percentage of the US population. Why does this matter? Because there has been countless research done on healthcare disparities among people of different race/socioeconomic status leading to health disparities. There has also been research done that shows that “people help and relate to their own.” An AA doctor is more likely to help disadvantaged and underpresented communities (where these health and healthcare disparities are rampant) more than a poor Caucasian or Asian doctor regardless if his parents were millionaires or if he lived in the ghetto as a kid. There’s also the mistrust that minority communities have against doctors and hospitals but that’s a whole other can of worms. And don’t forget there’s a disadvantaged section on the AMCAS where applicants can talk about the struggles they faced as a child. If that’s on the AMCAS, it’s reasonable to believe that it plays a role in admissions.

 

[CyrusHabs7695]

You seem to be missing the point of designating some ORM and others URM. URM means that a particular ethnicity’s representation in Medicine does not match its percentage of the US population. Why does this matter? Because there has been countless research done on healthcare disparities among people of different race/socioeconomic status leading to health disparities. There has also been research done that shows that “people help and relate to their own.” An AA doctor is more likely to help disadvantaged and underpresented communities (where these health and healthcare disparities are rampant) more than a poor Caucasian or Asian doctor regardless if his parents were millionaires or if he lived in the ghetto as a kid. There’s also the mistrust that minority communities have against doctors and hospitals but that’s a whole other can of worms. And don’t forget there’s a disadvantaged section on the AMCAS where applicants can talk about the struggles they faced as a child. If that’s on the AMCAS, it’s reasonable to believe that it plays a role in admissions.

Understood, but if we keep feeding this fire of "white doctors will help white patients" and "black doctors will help black patients", the segregation and grouping of populations we see in medicine will continue. Its just a better idea in my opinion to incorportate proper training and things to prepare physicians to serve different communities instead of assuming each doctor will only serve its own race. Just my opinion

 

[LizzyM]

Understood, but if we keep feeding this fire of "white doctors will help white patients" and "black doctors will help black patients", the segregation and grouping of populations we see in medicine will continue. Its just a better idea in my opinion to incorportate proper training and things to prepare physicians to serve different communities instead of assuming each doctor will only serve its own race. Just my opinion

We train all physicians to care for women and men but some female patients still prefer to seek out a female physician. Should we prohibit or discourage that activity on the part of patients?

 

[PreMedMissteps]

We train all physicians to care for women and men but some female patients still prefer to seek out a female physician. Should we prohibit or discourage that activity on the part of patients?

I can understand female patients preferring female OB/Gyns. But I'm not sure if there will be issues if we have male patients insisting on only male doctors and female patients insisting on only female doctors.

 

[drmantistobbogan]

Man, how did some of y'all pass the P/S section on the MCAT?

 

[PreMedMissteps]

I swear this forum could turn a thread about the merits of granny smith's vs. fuji apples into a URM debate.

Well, I have found that Fuji apples are underrepresented in pies. I blame it on green privilege.

 

[Lucca]

Closing thread as OP has been answered and discussion has reached escape velocity.