What percentage of your class gets Honors/High Pass/Pass

[andrewbobert]

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Hey everyone!

Found out that around 40-60% of my class gets honors for each individual rotation, depending on the rotation. 40-50% get high passes, and 0-15% get passes. I feel like this is drastically, drastically inflated in terms of grading...and I feel like getting all honors at my school isn't exactly that impressive in that sense.

I'm wondering what percent of the class gets H/HP/P during rotations at other schools.

Thanks!

edit: clinicals changed to rotations 🙂

 

[mrbreakfast]

For my class it was basically a 30-40-30 split, but highly dependent on individual clerkship. Also, very few people get either mostly honors or mostly passes. Average student gets a mix.

Don't worry about it until you get the MSPE, which tells you the actual breakdown for your school.

 

[WedgeDawg]

We had probably 35/64/1 H/HP/P though varied based on the rotation

 

[mrbreakfast]

Should also add that in my program, your shelf score accounted for about a third of your final grade, and if you did not pass the shelf (>10th percentile) the highest grade you could receive in the clerkship after retaking it was a pass. These two factors likely caused a large percentage of the total passes.

FWIW, according to the MSPE we had one clerkship with a several-percent fail rate.

 

[afib123]

30 percent honors, 20 near honors. 50 pass

 

[RNthenDoc]

 

[Newyawk]

Im not sure but i heard its high. When youre consistently surprised you got honors, its prob not a good sign

 

[y123]

1/3 each H/HP/P

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

It's almost impossible to get honors at my school. I know people who were 3 SDs above the mean on the shelves with great evals from residents/attendings not get honors. It's less than 10%. The only way to really do it is to go to a preceptor based rotation where the doc gives honors to everyone.

I've heard they are trying to change this a bit because we only have H/P/F grading for rotations and all the Ps are going to hurt a lot of people.

 

[Newyawk]

It's almost impossible to get honors at my school. I know people who were 3 SDs above the mean on the shelves with great evals from residents/attendings not get honors. It's less than 10%. The only way to really do it is to go to a preceptor based rotation where the doc gives honors to everyone.

I've heard they are trying to change this a bit because we only have H/P/F grading for rotations and all the Ps are going to hurt a lot of people.

I never understood why schools screw their students over like this

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I never understood why schools screw their students over like this

Me either. It never ceases to amaze me how much schools love to get in the way of their grads. Another example is telling students they can't miss more than two days for interviews in a month. Everyone simply finds ways to do it without telling the school because the school will cause a stink if they found out. Blows my mind.

 

[afib123]

It's almost impossible to get honors at my school. I know people who were 3 SDs above the mean on the shelves with great evals from residents/attendings not get honors. It's less than 10%. The only way to really do it is to go to a preceptor based rotation where the doc gives honors to everyone.

I've heard they are trying to change this a bit because we only have H/P/F grading for rotations and all the Ps are going to hurt a lot of people.

Well hopefully they write on the MSPE the distribution because that is not very good.

 

[afib123]

Me either. It never ceases to amaze me how much schools love to get in the way of their grads. Another example is telling students they can't miss more than two days for interviews in a month. Everyone simply finds ways to do it without telling the school because the school will cause a stink if they found out. Blows my mind.

Our school has that rule too. Very very weird which is why I think med school should be done in December (or however long it takes for the graduation requirements to finish). Maybe February and have couple of months used solely for interviews and them matching. Saves a semester in tuition and lets people interview freely.

 

[deleted645092]

For my school it’s 50/50 preceptor evaluation and COMAT. It’s my understanding that you have to get both honors on the evaluation and COMAT to get honors overall. So even if you get 100 on the preceptor evaluation you won’t get honors if you get below what they consider a 90% after score conversion on the COMAT.

 

[differentiating]

My school had no high pass, and it was up to 45% honors/55% pass. Grades were pretty much entirely based off of evals - the only shelf requirement is that you can't honor if you fail the shelf, but otherwise it was essentially irrelevant, so it was all luck of the draw.

 

[mrbreakfast]

Another example is telling students they can't miss more than two days for interviews in a month. Everyone simply finds ways to do it without telling the school because the school will cause a stink if they found out. Blows my mind.

Yep. To any rising M4s reading this, definitely talk to the class above you to figure out what rotations you should *actually* be taking. Certain departments will have zero issues telling you to cancel an interview so you can round for an hour and go home.

My program was chill and I ended up getting 30-something days "off" for interviews while on other rotations. But I met students who, after a 10 hour interview day, were taking a red-eye home and driving directly to the hospital from the airport for morning rounds. I also met (DO) students whose last day of rotations was the day before commencement.

 

[differentiating]

Yep. To any rising M4s reading this, definitely talk to the class above you to figure out what rotations you should *actually* be taking. Certain departments will have zero issues telling you to cancel an interview so you can round for an hour and go home.

My program was chill and I ended up getting 30-something days "off" for interviews while on other rotations. But I met students who, after a 10 hour interview day, were taking a red-eye home and driving directly to the hospital from the airport for morning rounds. I also met (DO) students whose last day of rotations was the day before commencement.

Some schools are definitely going to be more flexible than others - at my school, you basically needed to be on research/teaching/online course/vacation in order to do interviews, but those opportunities existed - so agree that knowing your school's policies and "flexible" rotations is key. I used up vacation due to a conflict with the online course available at the time and so was on rotations until the end of med school, but that also wasn't a very big deal imo.

 

[andrewbobert]

Some schools are definitely going to be more flexible than others - at my school, you basically needed to be on research/teaching/online course/vacation in order to do interviews, but those opportunities existed - so agree that knowing your school's policies and "flexible" rotations is key. I used up vacation due to a conflict with the online course available at the time and so was on rotations until the end of med school, but that also wasn't a very big deal imo.

Is that online course part of your school only or can others access it? If so, could you share a link with me? I'm kinda looking for flexible rotations during interview season 🙂

 

[mrbreakfast]

at my school, you basically needed to be on research/teaching/online course/vacation in order to do interviews

Yep. Independent research elective, case study elective, dissection elective, etc, are taken by the vast majority of students in my program. Lots of programs have online offerings, but the ones at mine actually involve a moderate amount of work. Good number of people used some vacation weeks as well.

 

[differentiating]

Is that online course part of your school only or can others access it? If so, could you share a link with me? I'm kinda looking for flexible rotations during interview season 🙂

It’s a rotation through my school. You almost certainly would need to find an online course offered by your school in order for it to count.

 

[username456789]

I love how Honors has become anything but these days.

When upwards of 30+% of a class gets it, it has clearly just become ridiculous.

For what it’s worth, I went to a school where letter grading was still used (which worked out just fine), and if you were in the top 10% and your grade was an A (the two did not always overlap completely) you were awarded a grade of Honors. Because, you know, it was an honor.

The designation has now become a joke. But at least it helps explain to me the frantic “OMG I didn’t get Honors is my career over??” posts. Even for SDN that seems neurotic, until you realize it has been so far diluted as to indicate “roughly top half/third of one’s class.”

 

[SpicyMayo]

I love how Honors has become anything but these days.

When upwards of 30+% of a class gets it, it has clearly just become ridiculous.

For what it’s worth, I went to a school where letter grading was still used (which worked out just fine), and if you were in the top 10% and your grade was an A (the two did not always overlap completely) you were awarded a grade of Honors. Because, you know, it was an honor.

The designation has now become a joke. But at least it helps explain to me the frantic “OMG I didn’t get Honors is my career over??” posts. Even for SDN that seems neurotic, until you realize it has been so far diluted as to indicate “roughly top half/third of one’s class.”

Let me guess you're probably annoyed with the focus on med student wellness and avoiding burnout. Get out of here with your letter grades. There's nothing wrong with wanting a little transparency in how your rotations are graded and striving for honors in this very clearly flawed system

 

[Dwan]

I love how Honors has become anything but these days.

When upwards of 30+% of a class gets it, it has clearly just become ridiculous.

For what it’s worth, I went to a school where letter grading was still used (which worked out just fine), and if you were in the top 10% and your grade was an A (the two did not always overlap completely) you were awarded a grade of Honors. Because, you know, it was an honor.

The designation has now become a joke. But at least it helps explain to me the frantic “OMG I didn’t get Honors is my career over??” posts. Even for SDN that seems neurotic, until you realize it has been so far diluted as to indicate “roughly top half/third of one’s class.”

What sucks is students from schools that have tough honors criteria get screwed because residency PDs don't care/know about the breakdown of every school, they just want to see the honors. At my school, HP was equivalent to or harder than honors at many other places, but it's still viewed as a bad grade in the eyes of PDs at competitive programs. Places that spam a lot of honors tend to match really well for their tier.

 

[username456789]

Let me guess you're probably annoyed with the focus on med student wellness and avoiding burnout. Get out of here with your letter grades. There's nothing wrong with wanting a little transparency in how your rotations are graded and striving for honors in this very clearly flawed system

Lolwut

You may want to go back and reread my post before further embarrassing yourself by replying to things that weren’t said.

 

[MSTP18]

Well hopefully they write on the MSPE the distribution because that is not very good.

They have to but a lot of programs don’t pay that much attention to it. A row of honors is hard to ignore no matter what.

 

[sunshinefl]

It's almost impossible to get honors at my school. I know people who were 3 SDs above the mean on the shelves with great evals from residents/attendings not get honors. It's less than 10%. The only way to really do it is to go to a preceptor based rotation where the doc gives honors to everyone.

I've heard they are trying to change this a bit because we only have H/P/F grading for rotations and all the Ps are going to hurt a lot of people.

Me either. It never ceases to amaze me how much schools love to get in the way of their grads. Another example is telling students they can't miss more than two days for interviews in a month. Everyone simply finds ways to do it without telling the school because the school will cause a stink if they found out. Blows my mind.

I’m pretty sure you aren’t at my school, but these 2 terrible policies are.... hmmm....