What range of MCAT score would make me competitve?

[WanderingDave]

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I'm a 27 year old nontraditional applicant. I got my BA in Chinese in 2001 from a high caliber institution, and my GPA was 3.1~3.2 (meh). I just finished my science prereqs at a place that won't be giving me a GPA because I'm a continuing ed (i.e. graduate) student taking undergrad classes, but I've pulled mostly Bs.

My life experience and healthcare experience are remarkable if I do say so myself, and I have some glowing LORs to back this up, though this hardly matters for primary applications.

To not miss the combined GPA-MCAT cutoff at most US med schools, what sort of MCAT score should I be aiming for? Yes smartass, I know it depends on the particular school and what they value. But can anyone give me a sort of ballpark figure, below which I ought to seriously consider retaking the MCAT or choosing another career?

 

[blee]

It really does depend and there is no concrete answer to your question.

SDN's version of "common knowledge" would suggest that you want a score at or above 30, with roughly equal contribution from each of the three numerically scored sections. Since your GPA is a bit lower than the average GPA of accepted students, you might want to raise your sights a bit in order to better your chances.

Since there's no way to directly compare two applicants, I can give you an example but it will be of limited use. I graduated with a BA in '99 from an excellent school with a 2.75ish GPA. With post-bacc work, I pulled that up to roughly 3.0, maybe a little less. Despite this, I got an MCAT score of 37R and earned five acceptances this cycle.

Who knows, though, how much my MCAT score really affected the outcome? Would I have gotten as many interviews if I had a 35? 33? 31? There's just no way of knowing. The best I can offer are the data in the MSAR book, which includes plots of acceptance rates vs. GPA and MCAT scores.

My best advice would be to get the highest score you possibly can. If you did your prep work, and as long as nothing unusual happened on test day (traffic jam, flood, fire, etc.), you probably won't improve your score substantially on a re-take. The AAMC website offers some statistics to that effect.

 

[WanderingDave]

Thanks blee. Actually I just checked my undergrad transcript online -- my GPA was a bit higher than I had thought: 3.22. That ought to help a bit.

 

[DrBowtie]

I would say probably somewhere in the 32-34 range.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm a 27 year old nontraditional applicant. I got my BA in Chinese in 2001 from a high caliber institution, and my GPA was 3.1~3.2 (meh). I just finished my science prereqs at a place that won't be giving me a GPA because I'm a continuing ed (i.e. graduate) student taking undergrad classes, but I've pulled mostly Bs.

My life experience and healthcare experience are remarkable if I do say so myself, and I have some glowing LORs to back this up, though this hardly matters for primary applications.

To not miss the combined GPA-MCAT cutoff at most US med schools, what sort of MCAT score should I be aiming for? Yes smartass, I know it depends on the particular school and what they value. But can anyone give me a sort of ballpark figure, below which I ought to seriously consider retaking the MCAT or choosing another career?

The mostly B's in a postbac after a GPA of about 3.2 might make schools nervous about your ability to succeed in sciences. Something higher than a balanced 30 would go a long way towards making places less nervous. But numbers aren't the end all be all, and so I'm not sure it should be the lynch pin in determining your career. If you do fantastically, that doesn't necessarilly mean you automatically will get interviews or in anyplace. If you do poorly that doesn't mean you can't rehabilitate and retake it, or look into paths that might not be as numbers conscious as US allo.

 

[relentless11]

As many have stated, there's no magic number. WanderingDave, as a normal applicant, you should shoot for an MCAT score being above average. Which are the MCAT numbers that people are giving you (30<). However your undergrad performance, and recent performance may require more work to do. I agree with Law2Doc, that undergrad GPA, and post-bacc GPA will raise some red flags. Redemption can only occur if you do better than you did before. I think the standard phrase is to "show significant improvement".

To satisify the adcoms with respect to your undergrad performance, you will need to show them that you can get A's in challenging undergrad upper division science courses including but not limited to the pre-med classes. Additionally you will need to get a really high MCAT score, at the very least 30, but really I think it should be 34 or more.

As everyone inferred, even if you get a 36 on the MCAT, it may not work out. Its very difficult and often times seemingly arbitrary as to who gets into med school. I am essentially in the same position as Blee, but also have a graduate GPA to throw at the adcoms (for whatever its worth..haha). So we can only hope that we are as successful as Blee🙂.

My advice is, get A's from here on out in challenging courses, and get a 34 or higher. Thats waht I would shoot for in your shoes (if not higher). From my side of the planet, our schools in California under the UC system typically screen GPA's between 3.0-3.2. I don't know about the MCAT, but it should not be any less than 24. I would estimate the cut off to be a 26. But obviously a lot of people with higher scores get in since the average MCAT score for those that matriculated at a UC is around 33, and a GPA of 3.7. Getting passed the screening stage only guarantees a secondary. However the ultimate goal is to get in, so when they all sit down and review your application as a whole after interviews. The MCAT and GPA may come back to haunt you. Best to leave them with little room to question your success as a physician.

 

[UMP]

i think a 35 and above would more or less guarantee you a spot somewhere for MD, and probably 30 for DO... although pulling a 3.2 in post-bacc looks very bad, start getting those grades up quick

 

[WanderingDave]

Well, for better or for worse relentless11, what I have now is what I've got to give. There will be no other postbacc program, no further undergrad coursework in the sciences, no MS. Where DO other nontraditional applicants get such time and money? I had to work and take my classes two per semester, and even then it was a struggle to make ends meet and not collapse.

I can aim for As in my final 2 and a half prereqs, but that's about the best I could do.

Once I have the time and the loan money to do nothing but study, I can see myself doing fine at medicine. I'm highly intelligent, a great communicator, and I enjoy working in a medical setting very much. But the physical sciences were never something I was a whiz at (I'm pretty good at bio -- I have an A and a B+ for intro bio).

 

[calliMD]

Well, for better or for worse relentless11, what I have now is what I've got to give. There will be no other postbacc program, no further undergrad coursework in the sciences, no MS. Where DO other nontraditional applicants get such time and money? I had to work and take my classes two per semester, and even then it was a struggle to make ends meet and not collapse.

I can aim for As in my final 2 and a half prereqs, but that's about the best I could do.

Once I have the time and the loan money to do nothing but study, I can see myself doing fine at medicine. I'm highly intelligent, a great communicator, and I enjoy working in a medical setting very much. But the physical sciences were never something I was a whiz at (I'm pretty good at bio -- I have an A and a B+ for intro bio).

Would you consider applying to DO schools?

 

[relentless11]

Well, for better or for worse relentless11, what I have now is what I've got to give. There will be no other postbacc program, no further undergrad coursework in the sciences, no MS. Where DO other nontraditional applicants get such time and money? I had to work and take my classes two per semester, and even then it was a struggle to make ends meet and not collapse.

I can aim for As in my final 2 and a half prereqs, but that's about the best I could do.

Once I have the time and the loan money to do nothing but study, I can see myself doing fine at medicine. I'm highly intelligent, a great communicator, and I enjoy working in a medical setting very much. But the physical sciences were never something I was a whiz at (I'm pretty good at bio -- I have an A and a B+ for intro bio).

Do your best, thats really all you can do. If you can't take any more classes, you should aim even higher for the MCAT. Although most schools treat GPA and MCAT equally, at the very least a really high MCAT may get you an interview and you came make your case with an adcom face-to-face.

As a non-trad, I did post-bacc for 1.5 years, and decided that it was too costly (time and money). Therefore I applied to a PhD program which pays for my tuition, and provides a monthly stipend which i use to pay rent, and food. Others have taken out more loans, and so forth. The problem is taking enough classes to make adcoms feel good that you can do well under high workloads (more than 2 classes) while taking care of personal life so you don't become impoverished. Yes, we all have to work, but ultimately adcoms want quantitative evidence that you can perform well in med school, and we cannot use personal challenges as an excuse since others have succeeded despite such challenges. Adcoms love to see those that overcome challenges.

This is why I chose a PhD program rather than taking out more loans. I wanted to stay at my school, and not pay for school. Therefore I am provided with at least 4 years time to get a doctorate degree and take undergrad class electives to boost my undergrad GPA. As stated others have just taken out loans and done rigorous Special Masters Programs. No time to work in those programs, so loans and financial aid are the only options. So yea, if you want it badly enough, you won't stop at anything to get there. Of course there are many other ways to survive so dont' give up.

 

[LKat]

Dave,
I recently found this forum, and I must say I think the people who post here frequently are a "unique" subset of medical school students and applicants--many who are gifted in the arts of exaggeration and blatant condescension, but who are definitely out of touch with reality. God help us all (including the profession) if these were the folks that made up admissions committees....

Most medical schools value diversity (in many areas), so numbers are NOT everything. I am 27 , am currently an ICU RN, and have very few EC's due to the fact that i worked full time during undergrad and grad school to pay for school and support myself....My physics and 1 semester of O-chem were taken at a community college as well, (which according to these folks is death to an application...) I do not think you need to worry about getting in the mid-thirties in order to have a shot at an MD school.
I had 30R on the MCAT, applied to 20 schools, Was offered interviews at about 15 of those. I turned down all but 6 interviews and with those 6 was accepted at 3 and waitlisted at 3 (outcome still pending). These were all MD schools and several were top-tier.
I also know of a girl who went to Hopkins with a 29....
I spoke with a member of an admissions committe who said he had rejected many people post-interview with 35+ MCATS if they came across as arrogant, uncaring, power-hungry, etc....
Bottom line is do the best you can, aim for 30-ish (as some schools did have an initial cut off)-- but dont be discouraged by some of the responses you are getting here. You never know what will happen...
Most importantly, actually know WHY you want to go into medicine....you'd be suprised by how many people with a very high MCAT are stumped by that question during the interview. Good luck to you 🙂
LKAT
U of Rochester, C/O 2010 ....(unless i change my mind 🙂)

 

[Saluki]

If you have unusual ECs and great letters of recc, you might be able to get in without that high of an MCAT score, as LKat reminded us. But, in general, it would be best to aim for at least a 30. And I would reccommend applying to both MD and DO schools. If you can do fairly well on the MCAT, then you'd have a really good chance at the DO schools., and it's good not to put all your eggs in one basket...

 

[burntcrispy]

I was in a similiar position when I decided to apply to medical school. I had a GPA of around 3.1 or so and took about 60 hours of science classes. I made all A's in those 60 hours and it still didn't bring up my GPA much above a 3.2 It's just hard to bring up after you have a full undergrad degree worth of hours.

As for the MCAT, do the best that you can. Many schools use GPA and MCAT to make their first cut of applicants without ever seeing any other aspects of the application. This is understandable as many schools get over 800 applications for 200 spots. (at least that's how it is here in TX). So a high MCAT can help to offset poorer performance in college classes.

Other advice would be to try to get A's in whatever classes you have left. Your shool may not give you a GPA but I think the online application will calculate a GPA for you and they take count almost every class you have ever taken. For example, at the school I did my prerecs at, they gave B,B+, A-, A, A+ etc. When putting the classes in on the online application it didn't factor anything but the letter grade, no + or -, etc. So, your grades in your post bac work may likely factor into your GPA. Also you colleges GPA may differ from the GPA that will be calculated by the online app.

Finally, keep your options open and apply to all of the DO schools. I got interview invites to all of the DO schools but got rejected from many of the allopathic.

Just keep your head up and stay postivie. I didn't think I had much of a chance and was actually told this by one school's admission office. Now I will graduate with my MD and head off to residency in about a month from now so it definately can be done.

Good luck.

 

[WanderingDave]

Much appreciated, guys. I've decided that I'm going to stay for another month of the summer term at the college where I've been taking courses and take a 200 or 300 level biology course. I plan on cashing in all my unused vacation time at work so that I can get paid to do naught but study that month and get an A.

My ECs are good -- I will have had 2 years experience as a CNA and Med Aide at a locally renowned nursing home by the time I apply, and all the residents and most of my coworkers think I've done an excellent job. I'm planning on going into geriatrics, so I think this is pretty valuable experience.

I'm purposely applying to all schools that send everyone a secondary. I figure if my LORs and my own written essays are my strength (I'm very linguistically gifted and good with words), the least I can do is make sure ALL the schools I apply to see my good side!

I'm going to move to New York City this summer, which is where 5 of the schools I'm applying to are. I plan on continuing my CNA work -- which I hear pays *VERY* well there -- but I've also considered shadowing a DO while I'm there. That way if I don't get in this round, when I reapply next year, I can have a letter from a DO and apply to some DO schools too.

And as for my reason for wanting to be a doctor? That's pretty simple: I want to relieve pain. I've lived and traveled in 15 countries and I've seen how much pain there is in the world. I want a job that makes maximum use of my intellectual abilities to make the world a less painful place. I'll need to say something different to the adcoms of couse, because that sounds cheesy, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

 

[gdk]

state schools average mcat ~30 ish
"upper tier" private schools (emory, duke, etc) 32-36
however, you can get interviews at the latter with scores below that even if you're not URM.. it just depends on the rest of your app.

 

[chrisjohn]

Having worked around medicine, you're going to be far ahead of most non-trads. But, an MCAT score >30 turns heads, saying that you can handle if the academic course work if you so choose.

First off, realize that the medical school process is arbitrary and will continue to be so. ADCOMS are different from year to year and school to school. Hopefully someone on the ADCOM is a non-trad MD who can identify with your situation.

Don't take rejection personally and don't think three acceptances means deification. Good luck.

 

[RxnMan]

...an MCAT score >30 turns heads, saying that you can handle if the academic course work if you so choose.

Look at med school average entering MCAT on the AAMC website. That'll confirm this.

First off, realize that the medical school process is arbitrary and will continue to be so...

I have been a medical researcher in my home town for over 6 years, all of it done in hospitals affiliated with my state's med school. I work with, and have LORs from, med school faculty. All of my clinical experience is at the local level one trauma center and children's hospital. What happened? I got rejected from my state school. Then a private college from across the country offers me an interview and I get in a week later. In many regards, this process makes no sense. Don't get frustrated with it. Always work to maximize your options, and don't restrict yourself to one place.

...and don't think three acceptances means deification.

...and three rejections doesn't mean anything either.

 

[vtucci]

I did my post-bac at CCNY, one of the CUNY schools in New York City. I also did a few credits at York College, another CUNY. Their introduction to Chemistry was very well done. It was very reasonable (I think it was $160/credit for part-time), much,. much less than programs elsewhere so you can definitely do some advanced course work there. I would recommend the summer genetics class. Lolita Wood-Hill and the premed office has a huge program and are very used to dealing with non-trads. You can definitely do more post-bac work to boost your GPA.

If you are looking for research, I Highly recommend Lincoln Hospital in the South Bronx and the ED program led by Dr. Radeos.