What research can I do as an MD?

[JP2740]

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What I'm trying to say is, let's say I don't do the md/phd program and just become an MD, what are my capabilities as an MD in the lab research world?

 

[Neuronix]

You can do anything you want with an MD. You just have to get the training to do the research you want to do somewhere down the line. If you don't get a PhD, you'll have to do several years of research to make up for it at some point.

 

[JP2740]

Can you explain more about that or give me some reading material? Would I be able to direct my own lab? I'm talking lab research here.

 

[CielloStelatto]

From what I understand, as long as you are dedicated to your research goal (leading a lab as an md), then I would think you'd have a shot at it. I have worked with and interviewed with md-only researchers who are PI's of their respective labs. I've also seen that those PI's have varying degrees of the quality of research among them, from fantastic to hardly-know-what's-going-on-in-my-lab, but of course you would see that in a subset of phd researchers also.

 

[JP2740]

So if I go this route how should I go prepare myself ideally?

 

[orrghead16]

So if I go this route how should I go prepare myself ideally?

Ideally--MD/PhD. There are such a multitude of ways to get into it that the ideal one is the one that fits you the most. Could be an NIH postdoc. Could be a good research residency. Could be an extended postdoc during fellowship. And on and on.

 

[lukazo]

Hmm... folks... hi there... I'm an international student and well, I'm obtaining my MD degree in few weeks (graduating my medical school) and I decided to do research after graduation, rather than applying for USMLE Step exams...

Reason is that I do like research, medical sciences and scientific work; also obtaining PhD degree and recommendations (some personal relationships and so on) would help me to get involved in good residency program when I pass the Step exams (of course I know that getting high scores in Steps is the most important thing).

This is because, my medical school doesn't offer MD/PhD program. It offers only MD. I also didn't have the opportunity to do clinical rotations in US, so I think being a PhD, plus MD, would extend my chances in residency. And in case I decide to be a scientist for the rest of my life 🙂)), my degrees (including MD) would give me a chance to be a Principal Investigator and have a wide-range access to clinical and lab research.

What you guys think about my plan? criticize it! give some advices, your opinion, personal experiences and anything u like, just help me to figure it out well 😀

 

[RxnMan]

You can do anything you want with an MD. You just have to get the training to do the research you want to do somewhere down the line. If you don't get a PhD, you'll have to do several years of research to make up for it at some point.

I agree 100%, with the stipulation that you can do whatever research you can get 1) funded or 2) willing to do in your spare time.

 

[RxnMan]

Hmm... folks... hi there... I'm an international student and well, I'm obtaining my MD degree in few weeks (graduating my medical school) and I decided to do research after graduation, rather than applying for USMLE Step exams...

Reason is that I do like research, medical sciences and scientific work; also obtaining PhD degree and recommendations (some personal relationships and so on) would help me to get involved in good residency program when I pass the Step exams (of course I know that getting high scores in Steps is the most important thing).

This is because, my medical school doesn't offer MD/PhD program. It offers only MD. I also didn't have the opportunity to do clinical rotations in US, so I think being a PhD, plus MD, would extend my chances in residency. And in case I decide to be a scientist for the rest of my life 🙂)), my degrees (including MD) would give me a chance to be a Principal Investigator and have a wide-range access to clinical and lab research.

What you guys think about my plan? criticize it! give some advices, your opinion, personal experiences and anything u like, just help me to figure it out well 😀

Your challenge (assuming your goal is getting a US residency) is that you're a IMG, not that you don't have a PhD. A PhD, in general, is not going to be worth the time you spend if you are doing it to increase your chances at a residency. The best way to get into a US residency is to have the same things any applicant has - great grades, great USMLE scores, and great letters of support.

 

[lukazo]

RxnMan, thanks for your comment! but you know, I want PhD and science as much as I want US residency. Just I thought, if one day I decide to go back to practical medicine, being PhD would increase my chances, because as far as I know, for IMG it's vital to have some clinical rotations done in US before applying for USMLE. and as I said above, I never had a chance to do that...... So the general question is, if I decide to take USMLE, would they consider my research past and PhD degree as an advantage?

 

[RxnMan]

RxnMan, thanks for your comment! but you know, I want PhD and science as much as I want US residency. Just I thought, if one day I decide to go back to practical medicine, being PhD would increase my chances, because as far as I know, for IMG it's vital to have some clinical rotations done in US before applying for USMLE. and as I said above, I never had a chance to do that...... So the general question is, if I decide to take USMLE, would they consider my research past and PhD degree as an advantage?

Will being a PhD enable you to do clinical rotations in the US? If so, this is the first time I've heard of it. And USMLE won't be helped or hindered by doing a PhD - you only need to study the general material presented in our first two years of MD school.

But here's another way of looking at things -

If you apply for US residencies now and get in, and you're golden, do the PhD after residency (There are many ways to get a PhD after residency). If you apply and don't get in, then do the PhD, and reapply.

In either situation, you'll still have the opportunity to do research, but I don't think you should pass up a chance to go for residencies.

 

[Neuronix]

I'll second what RxnMan is saying. Research does not give you nor specially enable you to do clinical rotations. The end result is somewhat neutral. The research before residency takes you away from the clinical world for several years, which hurts your chances at obtaining a residency in the US because residency directors are skeptical of someone who has been out of medical school for so long. Also, the number of US medical school graduates is rapidly increasing, and lack of residency positions will become a crisis in another 5 years or so when there won't be enough US residency positions for the number of US medical school graduates. My crystal-ball style prediction is that FMGs are soon to be squeezed out of US residency programs entirely unless the number of positions is increased dramatically.

My advice is to come to the US and get some research and connections under your belt, but don't spend 5 years or so getting a PhD. Spend a year or two maybe getting a master's or just working in research in a clinical department. Focus on the USMLE early before your Step 1 knowledgebase gets old and rusty, as that score will be one of the biggest factors as to whether you obtain a US residency position.

I shouldn't really know anything about this, I've just observing. Over the years I've worked with five FMGs who were dreaming of US radiology residency. None of them got a position so far. In the end they had to settle for non-competitive residencies they likely could have managed without years of research or perhaps with a single year of research. My advice in general is do not trust anyone who benefits from products of your hard research work. I have seen research advisors string along FMGs for their cheap labor for years and in the end you could end up with nothing.

 

[physasst]

Also, the number of US medical school graduates is rapidly increasing, and lack of residency positions will become a crisis in another 5 years or so when there won't be enough US residency positions for the number of US medical school graduates. My crystal-ball style prediction is that FMGs are soon to be squeezed out of US residency programs entirely unless the number of positions is increased dramatically.

Not entirely, the current track to a 30% increase in medical school enrollment in the US will result in squeezing out the IMG spots almost entirely, but as long as residency spots remain stable, there should be enough (per the AAMC data) spots for all US graduates. The big problem is whether or not US medical graduates will be able to get residency spots in their chosen specialties, or if they need to settle. Currently, with the new legislation, any unfilled specialty residency spots may be converted to primary care spots, which will hopefully increase the primary care pool, however, will this result in more US graduates being dissatisfied by not being able to enter residencies of their choosing? That we do not know.

 

[Neuronix]

Not entirely, the current track to a 30% increase in medical school enrollment in the US will result in squeezing out the IMG spots almost entirely, but as long as residency spots remain stable, there should be enough (per the AAMC data) spots for all US graduates.

I saw Tom Nasca (director of the NRMP) speak a few months ago at my home institution. He said current projections show there won't be enough spots for US MD and DO students around the year 2013. Perhaps I interpreted what he said incorrectly.

 

[RxnMan]

Not entirely, the current track to a 30% increase in medical school enrollment in the US will result in squeezing out the IMG spots almost entirely, but as long as residency spots remain stable, there should be enough (per the AAMC data) spots for all US graduates...

This is my interpretation of the situation too, but I had not heard of this:

I saw Tom Nasca (director of the NRMP) speak a few months ago at my home institution. He said current projections show there won't be enough spots for US MD and DO students around the year 2013. Perhaps I interpreted what he said incorrectly.

He may have been talking about DOs. A large chunk of the percent increase in med students (still a small absolute number) are from the new DO schools opening up. In that case, instead of our DO comrades being lumped in with the MD students, they might push themselves onto the other side of the equation with the FMGs.

 

[lukazo]

Well, thank you guys for sharing your ideas...

I just want to make it a bit clear... I'm not doing PhD ONLY because I want to dig my way to residency, no, I just like science, I like research and things like that...

All I wanted to know, was, if one sunny day 🙂)) I decide to get back to US residency, would my scientific work help me in any kind of way, but as you said, it will not, right?

Even more, as Neuronix mentioned, residency directors may even don't like it....

Spend a year or two maybe getting a master's or just working in research in a clinical department.

This sounds good... How can I do it Neuronix? How can I get the right to work in research in a clinical department?

 

[RxnMan]

...How can I get the right to work in research in a clinical department?

If you want to do a masters in clinical research, then start by using google to find programs. Duke has one, as well as Pitt, Mt Sinai, and Penn (if I recall correctly).

If you just want to work for a department, then just start looking at the websites of different programs, find guys who publish, and send them an email with a cover letter and a copy of your CV. You won't get many responses, but if you email enough people, a few of them will respond positively.

 

[lukazo]

If you want to do a masters in clinical research, then start by using google to find programs. Duke has one, as well as Pitt, Mt Sinai, and Penn (if I recall correctly).

If you just want to work for a department, then just start looking at the websites of different programs, find guys who publish, and send them an email with a cover letter and a copy of your CV. You won't get many responses, but if you email enough people, a few of them will respond positively.

aha, I see... can you describe me in few words what exactly does that masters in clinical research comprise?

And even if I get a positive response, I will have to obtain a working visa, not student visa (as in PhD for instance), right? working (job) visas are too hard to get.. must have some CIA connections to get it easily 😀

 

[lukazo]

Where'r u mates? 🙂