What should I expect on a job interview?

[LaBelleVN]

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I'll be going on a second interview in a couple weeks. The first meeting was an informal one in which I met three of the partners and we just sat around for a couple of hours talking about the general aspects of the practice and getting to know each other. I am not really sure what to expect this second time around. We are having dinner the night before and the official interview will be the next day. I guess I will meet all the other pathologists at this time. What is typically discussed at a second interview? How many interviews are there before things are finalized?

Medical school and residency never really prepares you for what to expect when you're finally searching for a job. I've found that the old threads on this forum regarding things to look for in a practice have been helpful. I'm still not sure when topics like compensation, benefits, hours, responsibilities, coverage etc should be brought up.

Did you get a lawyer to review your contract? I'm hearing mixed things--waste of money vs. necessary in order to not get screwed.

 

[lipomas]

Second interview is likely a good sign. Depending on how many people they are interviewing. What you discuss can vary a lot but probably includes

-Your interests both personally and professionally
-What parts of the lab you have expeirence in and/or would participate in
-what responsibilities the group expects and has
-Description of how the group functions and what role you might play
-questions from you (which should include what happened to recent people that were hired, how the practice is organized, how many hospitals you cover and what expectation of you would be)

There are lots of potential questions. Some might ask about your training and experience, what you like about pathology, how you relate with clinicians, how much you know about billing and administration, ethings like that.

Shouldn't be more than the second interview but who knows. No shame in having someone review your contract but you are unlikely to be able to change much of it.

 

[KCShaw]

Interviews are variable. Depends on the group/institution (academic, private, large, small, personality preferences, etc.), you, what they want out of whoever they hire, and so on and so forth. Sometimes folks talk money right off the bat at the first interview, sometimes not until much later. Sometimes the entire interview process is just about finding whether there is a comfort zone between the group and you. I wouldn't go in with too many -expectations-, but you can go in with some -goals-. If you have no idea what the salary or benefits might be yet, you deserve to get at least a general idea. Have some questions you want answered -- you don't have to be in a rush to interrupt dinner with them, but understand your interview schedule enough that you do address those points.

As far as contracts go, I think it depends. It never really hurts to have it looked over -- what, a few hundred bucks or so for some better understanding and possibly peace of mind? On the other hand, if they point out something then you have to decide whether it's worth it to you to be a thorn about having it changed. But, it's also possible to get screwed or just totally misunderstand something which is actually very important to you, whether it's a non-compete clause or some wording about partnership or tenure or time on service vs research vs teaching or certain benefits....or whatever. Just realize that lawyers are generally designed to be adversarial, which tends to make those they work for adversarial, meaning your lawyer might suggest something be changed and their lawyer doesn't want it changed and suddenly you're crossing swords with a potential employer and have to decide whether to stand firm or back down -- neither necessarily a good thing when trying to get a job in a competitive market. Now, if you've been headhunted, have experience, are otherwise a real jewel for that practice, and simply don't "need" that job unless you get everything you want, then you've got bargaining power and the scales tip the other way. Bottom line, I think you need to understand your goals from the job and how willing you would be to fight over the contract, although it may be easier to make that decision once you know what the contract details mean in layman's terms.

 

[2121115]

Always get someone to review the contract. As posted above, it is unlikely (particularly coming straight out of training) that you will be able to modify it much. But it might contain something that is a deal breaker to you, like maybe a non-compete clause or something along those lines, that would make you not want to sign at all.

Most of these contracts are the same for every new hire in the group. In other words, a good group will likely give you a verbatim contact of the guy they hired last year (or whenever) with similar numbers, etc. and they aren't going to give you more salary than they gave the person last year or a shorter partnership track or whatever because that would make for a pretty awkward work place. So even if they wanted to negotiate salary with you, they don't have as much flexibility as you might think.

 

[Torsed]

Pay to have a CONTRACT attorney look at the contract. Make sure the attorney has done physician contracts before.

Things to look out for in the contract:
1. Make sure they no compete clause is acceptable. Mine only listed the current hosptial system, but I had a friend whose no compete clause listed the whole northern part of the state he was practicing in (if you have a house and kids this could be a massive problem). Think about the issue of how many state licenses you have too, if they limit you from working in half the state, it most likely would limit your job options if you bounced/got fired.
2. Make sure they spell out in words how many weeks off you have and how many days for professional meetings.
3. Does the contract mention what will be required to be a partner? This would be useful to have in words, some will have a timeline and a percentage of profits. VERY useful to have this in writting. Salary should also be stated in writting so there will not be any b.s.

I think at the end of the day ask yourself if you could work with this group. I spend a lot of time with my partner and we get along well. If you happen to get in a group with bizarro pathologists who have the personality of a pickle it will probably be less than an ideal situation. It may be useful to ask former pathologists who worked there. I don't know of a good way to bring it up at the interview, but you could ask about pathologist turn over. Some groups I know hire pathologists and can them after a few years to get a new hopeful/optimistic graduate and do the same process over again.

One thing that helped me was to go on several interviews and compare the groups and personalities. If a group does not give you a sample contract be wary. My starting salary ranged for FULL TIME work (out of fellowship) between groups I interviewed at from 120k to 180k-200k (to throw it out there). I am not sure what others are offered, the few I know of were in the 200 range.

Hope that helps.

 

[LaBelleVN]

Thank you all for the advice. You brought up a lot of issues that I didn't even think of so I'm glad to be somewhat more enlightened now.

I was particularly drawn to this group because they offered me a flexible schedule. Options included part-time vs. full-time with no call/frozens/CP lab coverage vs. full-time on partnership track, etc. The group currently has some part-timers. Ideally, I'd also like to work part-time--something like 5 days a week, but only 6 hour days. Is it stupid for me not to try to work up to being a partner? Lifestyle & family are more important to me than money, but I also don't want to be taken advantage of and get paid like crap. Private practice compensation is baseline salary + RVUs? I was told that in NYC a pathologist pockets $15 for each 88305. That seems low to me.

 

[2121115]

My starting salary ranged for FULL TIME work (out of fellowship) between groups I interviewed at from 120k to 180k-200k (to throw it out there). I am not sure what others are offered, the few I know of were in the 200 range.

You got an offer for 120K from a private practice group? That is borderline insulting, IMO.

To the OP, I recommend looking at the ASCP job survey, which lists ranges for starting salary. When I was applying I think roughly 40% of offers were listed as 150-200K and another 40% were 200-240K. Depends on a lot of factors, particularly location. Larger cities (supposedly more desirable) will offer less. The survey is also broken down by fellowship.

I agree with the comments about non-compete clauses. These can screw you over. My group did not have me sign any non-compete, but I've seen them and some of these are vicious.

The bottom line, however, is what you think of your long term prospects in the group and the general environment. Don't give up a good thing over a few thousand dollars for the first year.

 

[cjw0918]

Careful with the part-time working 6 hrs/ day 5 days/ week. These arrangements have a way of morphing themselves into full-time with part-time pay. IMO, to truly be part-time and not get stuck there late finishing cases since YOU WILL ALREADY BE THERE EVERY DAY, think about working 3 days/ week 10/ hr days and not AT ALL the other 2 days/ week.
Also, you MUST discuss a hand-off for unfinished cases as a part-time person. Some pathologists loathe finishing cases that another person started and won't like helping with your stuff. Ideally, the best way to handle this problem is for you to job share with another one of the part-timers so that there is a designated person for the hand-off at all times. And likewise you will finish their cases.
Good luck. Sounds like an exciting opportunity.

 

[mario2010]

To OP: Non competes are the most important, they can scew you big time. Secondly, there is a significant difference between the starting salary for high volume dermpath vs surg path positions. From my experience last year, starting salaries were anywhere between 250 K to 380K. Do not let anyone low ball you. If you are signing out around 18-20,000 skins per year, you should be getting > 300K, ideally 350 K plus, unless untill it's a partnership tract WITHOUT any buy in at the end of term

Additionaly, you can request a clause in the contract that in the event of unexpected sale/ merger/ acquisition of the group before you become partner, you will become entitle to xx% of shares. I know people who were in 4th and 5th year and the group was sold few months before they become partner and got nothing in the end.

 

[pathstudent]

Additionaly, you can request a clause in the contract that in the event of unexpected sale/ merger/ acquisition of the group before you become partner, you will become entitle to xx% of shares. I know people who were in 4th and 5th year and the group was sold few months before they become partner and got nothing in the end.

I have met a few of those people too and they are the most disgruntled group of pathologists around. They never made the 600k a year. They never got the big payday and now they feel trapped by non-compete clauses and can't get out.