What specialties am I open for?

[Pajamasamm]

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Just wanted to know what specialties I can apply for as I'm still undecided? Main interest is EM so far and I believe my scores are competitive enough for that. Just wondering if I could be competitive enough for derm/ortho/plastics and other specialties.

Board scores: Step 1: 239 Comlex 1: 737

Thanks in advance!

 

[sab3156]

There is a lot of key information you are leaving out, which means no one can really answer your question.

1) When do you graduate?
2) You want ACGME or AOA? This ties into question #1. I don't know anything about AOA match, but ACGME is basically not happening (see below).
3) You said nothing about your research activities or who will be writing your letters, which means you probably do not have much research at all or connections in those fields.
4) Considering a below average step 1 for those specialties (Derm/Ortho/Plastics), coming from a DO school, and likely no research/connections, you are going to be wasting your time and money applying to ACGME programs.
5) Ask on the EM forum for better advice regarding EM.

 

[TheRebels]

You got 99th percentile on your comlex. Congrats, man.
With that score, everything is open for you. Decide what you wanna do and boost up your resume accordingly.

 

[DokterMom]

AOA Derm/Plastics/Ortho - yes, absolutely.

ACGME Derm/Plastics/Ortho - no.
Few ACGME Derm/Plastics/Ortho programs even consider DOs seriously and those that do will pay more attention to your 239 than your 737.

 

[TheRebels]

AOA Derm/Plastics/Ortho - yes, absolutely.

ACGME Derm/Plastics/Ortho - no.
Few ACGME Derm/Plastics/Ortho programs even consider DOs seriously and those that do will pay more attention to your 239 than your 737.

Totally agree. And let’s be honest, even if OP scores in the 99th percentile in his/her step 1, his/her odds in ACGME Derm/Plastics/Ortho is unfairly minuscule anyway.

 

[TheRebels]

Totally agree. And let’s be honest, even if OP scores in the 99th percentile in his/her step 1, his/her odds in ACGME Derm/Plastics/Ortho is unfairly minuscule anyway.

DISCLAIMER: this is only anecdotal evidence.
My good mate in med school got 90th percentile in both his steps and comlex. Multiple Research papers. Strong LORs (no reason for me to not believe him). He’s gonna find out his ortho match soon, and he received awesome responses from the AOA side. The ACGME side though, cricket.
Again, just one person’s story.
Regardless, good luck

 

[deleted245139]

I never understand how the thought process goes here. If your main interest is EM, go EM. I get confused when someone gets a good score and magically wants to do Ortho. Do you WANT to do Ortho? Or derm? That's perfectly ok, but do yourself a favor and invest yourself in finding out what you truly want to do. Shadow and pursue research if possible. Start thinking about your elective choices.
Don't let a score magically alter your career choice because of the supposed glitter surrounding other 'competitive' specialties

 

[UTsksk]

I have to agree with most. If you have an interest in those specialties, research should have been pursued during 1st year. Had a friend match optho and he was going all out since day 1 since he knew that's what it would take.

Congrats on your score. EM is definitely there for you on ACGME and I know you didnt mention it but so is gen surg depending on what you did during your 1st 2 years.

 

[sab3156]

I have to agree with most. If you have an interest in those specialties, research should have been pursued during 1st year. Had a friend match optho and he was going all out since day 1 since he knew that's what it would take.

Congrats on your score. EM is definitely there for you on ACGME and I know you didnt mention it but so is gen surg depending on what you did during your 1st 2 years.

100% right. He sounds like he is halfway through third year. Unfortunately, at that point it is a little late (and by that I mean really late) for a DO to jump on the ACGME ophtho/derm/ortho/plastics train. What is really troubling to me is that DO schools do not have any people who can help students regarding understanding the bare basics of the match. How are people coming out of the jungle halfway through 3rd year and no research and asking if their 230s are good enough for ortho and plastics and derm?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

100% right. He sounds like he is halfway through third year. Unfortunately, at that point it is a little late (and by that I mean really late) for a DO to jump on the ACGME ophtho/derm/ortho/plastics train. What is really troubling to me is that DO schools do not have any people who can help students regarding understanding the bare basics of the match. How are people coming out of the jungle halfway through 3rd year and no research and asking if their 230s are good enough for ortho and plastics and derm?

Because the schools themselves have no clue about the ACGME match, and previously someone with a COMLEX like OPs could land a competitive spot on the AOA side without research or any of that stuff you need for ACGME. They better figure it out quick because the merger is going to hit the unprepared rather hard.

 

[atomheart]

Because the schools themselves have no clue about the ACGME match, and previously someone with a COMLEX like OPs could land a competitive spot on the AOA side without research or any of that stuff you need for ACGME. They better figure it out quick because the merger is going to hit the unprepared rather hard.

Correct. I was shown a 4 year old infographic that showed my Level 1 score in 2017 would make me competitive for any specialty. They were clueless about other details such as how many residencies I would need to apply to, what types of residencies would accept my application, or whether I needed volunteer work or research or a USMLE score to match. They were surprised when I rattled off basic statistics from NRMP off the top of my head, and admitted they had never looked at the NRMP statistics for DOs. Many students continue to gobble up these presentations as the truth and become very idealistic because they yielded positive results in the past.

These student affairs departments are run by bachelors or masters in non-medical fields with no skin in the game and no business telling students what they can achieve. They will later doctor their powerpoints using scramble match results to convince new prospective students what is possible. Like always, I ignore them.

 

[sab3156]

Correct. I was shown a 4 year old infographic that showed my Level 1 score in 2017 would make me competitive for any specialty. They were clueless about other details such as how many residencies I would need to apply to, what types of residencies would accept my application, or whether I needed volunteer work or research or a USMLE score to match. They were surprised when I rattled off basic statistics from NRMP off the top of my head, and admitted they had never looked at the NRMP statistics for DOs. Many students continue to gobble up these presentations as the truth and become very idealistic because they yielded positive results in the past.

These student affairs departments are run by bachelors or masters in non-medical fields with no skin in the game and no business telling students what they can achieve. They will later doctor their powerpoints using scramble match results to convince new prospective students what is possible. Like always, I ignore them.

This is very sad. It reminds me of how our executive dean told us that we don't have to take USMLE to be competitive for any specialty. It shows how disconnected DO faculty and administration are from the real world.

 

[Neopolymath]

How would you feel if you went into Ortho and the pay gets cut down to Gen Surg level? Are you ready to do a full surgical career with your primary motivator pulled out from under you?

Interest in field should be driving you (especially considering that EM makes the same as ortho per hour - they just work fewer hours)

Most people pick surgical subspecialities over general surgery for reasons other than money. Your point still matters though.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

This is very sad. It reminds me of how our executive dean told us that we don't have to take USMLE to be competitive for any specialty. It shows how disconnected DO faculty and administration are from the real world.

To be fair in the days of the AOA match this was true. Hell not that long ago it was easier to become an orthopedic surgeon on the DO side because of the AOA match than it was on the MD side. Yeah it was a community program but you still were a board certified orthopedic surgeon. Fairly sure that on a applicant per spot ratio the same thing held up for ENT and Derm. However those days are long long over.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Most people pick surgical subspecialities over general surgery for reasons other than money. Your point still matters though.

Yeah the surgical subs tend to have much more flexible hours when you're done with residency compared to GS, except neurosurgery which is its own special sort of hell.

 

[Blunt Dissection]

This is very sad. It reminds me of how our executive dean told us that we don't have to take USMLE to be competitive for any specialty. It shows how disconnected DO faculty and administration are from the real world.

I feel like DO schools overall need to realize that with the merger, DOs are the new kids on the block. Talk about the merger in the MD world is practically nonexistent - even my friends in allopathic schools across the country don't even realize there's a merger going on. Our administrators and osteopathic governing bodies need to start adapting to the truth that when an old school ACGME program director looks at a 700 COMLEX score versus a 240 USMLE score, the COMLEX "99th percentile" means nothing to him. I've spoken to program directors that have referred to the COMLEX as COMPLEX, COMLE, COMSAE (lol) - the fact that the other half doesn't even know what our board exam is called should be a sign to the higher ups. Unless of course the goal of the AOA is to turn our profession into glorified NPs and PAs, then yeah, they're doing a good job of that. I can't believe that the AOA even came up with the whole Doctors that DO slogan - it's a professional embarrassment. #endrant

OP - Your scores are great, doors will open for you for any formerly AOA program. For ACGME programs, you're probably competitive enough for most things minus surgical subspecialties and Derm. How competitive will depend on the type of program you're interested in (academic vs community) and the LoRs you get along the way.