What the F*CK is going on with the stock market?

[RxBoy]

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Anyone other than me shaking in their boots? Dow took a 449 dollar plunge today (4%). Of the 5 gigantic investment banks operating in the beginning of the year, only 2 survive... Bear Stearns, Merrill lynch, Lehman brothers, Freddie Mac, Fannie May, AIG... Morgan Stanley and Washington Mutual on the verge of collapse. Everyday another multibillion dollar company collapses. .. House values are half the cost of what they were in my neighborhood. Nearly impossible to take out loans now. THe value of the dollar is plummeting..

I been following this guy Peter Schiff for quite some time and his predictions always seems to always be right... he called the housing crash back in 06 (when people laughed at him). He has a very very gloomy outlook for the US dollar which makes it that much scarier. The CRNA may not be the only thing we have to worry about. 🙁

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoZV5jt9puc



http://www.europac.net/video.asp

 

[lord_jeebus]

The chickens have come home to roost.

I've been shorting financials for a while now, and this is a week I've been waiting for - I've made thousands of dollars since Monday morning.

I grew up in late 80's and 90's Japan, where we had a remarkably similar situation with a housing bubble, excessive leverage, and inevitable collapse. I think the US government is handling the situation a bit more competently than the Japanese did, but there is no easy solution and I anticipate a prolonged period of economic misery.

The bright side is that our careers are much more secure than most Americans, and when it is over, we'll be in a position to get some great deals in the market and in housing.

 

[RxBoy]

Well Americans borrow to the end... Credit Cards, car loans, housing morgages... You name it...

The Japanese have a different tradition. In the 90's, the federal intrest rate fell to 0% and the citizens still refused to borrow... Thats why they got out of their recession, they stopped spending and kept saving. US doesn't look so bleak.

My older bro's been shorting stocks too... His been making good cash... But honestly in the end think about this way: If the 10,000 dollars you make buy you a fill up and a pack of gum in 10 years... what good is it? Shorting is good for stabilization now... its the 10 years from now that I worry about. After the shorting is done, and every stock is worth a Chinese nickel, what will the US do?

 

[lord_jeebus]

I think there's a role for commodities and TIPS in any portfolio; this is particularly true given the current threat of inflation.

What's the same about us and Japan is that in both, the financial system got stuck with bad assets stemming from stupid lending practices in a housing bubble, exacerbated by irresponsible leveraging. It wasn't just that the Japanese didn't want to borrow - the banks in the 90s were pretty much not lending to anyone with a business. It's not far-fetched to predict that our banks are going to get excessively tight with their lending in the near future as well.

 

[RxBoy]

I am just happy I am on the debt spectrum thanks to student loans. Its a good time to be in debt that doesn't demand immediate pay back. Its the investors (property, stocks, businesses) that bought into the hype 5 years ago that I feel sorry for...

Commodities are def. a smart investment for security and profits... I think a secure one to fight inflation would be gold. If I had money sitting in a bank, I would convert it to gold. The Ameican people's wealth is being robbed as we speak, that is as long as they have US dollars on hand. Keeping the federal printing press on full speed is going to be disastrous in the end.

We all remember what happened to Germany's currency:

Inflation 1923-24: A German woman feeding a stove with currency notes, which burn longer than the amount of firewood they can buy.

 

[badasshairday]

The thing I am getting worried about as a student, is the fact that banks are going under. What if the bank I have my loan money in just closes up shop and the FDIC is running low on $, then what?!?!??

 

[lord_jeebus]

I like the Deutsch Bank commodity fund DBC - it's a nice mix of various commodities including oil, gold, wheat, corn, and aluminum. Perhaps a little too heavy in oil.

I also have invested a bit in silver under the (probably flawed) logic that it is less subject to speculators, and because the silver:gold price ratio is quite a bit lower than usual.

According to the Financial Times, "The Fed also suspended rules that prohibit banks from using deposits to fund their investment banking subsidiaries." Made me think about buying some Krugerrands and keeping them under my pillow .

 

[lord_jeebus]

The thing I am getting worried about as a student, is the fact that banks are going under. What if the bank I have my loan money in just closes up shop and the FDIC is running low on $, then what?!?!??

Most likely, the government would pass emergency legislation to increase FDIC funding.

 

[RxBoy]

The thing I am getting worried about as a student, is the fact that banks are going under. What if the bank I have my loan money in just closes up shop and the FDIC is running low on $, then what?!?!??

There will be millions of other students like you... So you wouldn't be alone. If the economy keeps going sour... there might be another loan opt out for student loans (like foreclosures). I wouldn't find it too far fetched, even though I doubt it.

All I know is I am going to prolong my payments as long as possible. By the last payments, you be thinking should I pay my payment or buy a pack of gum.

 

[bananamed]

I've always been taught that if someone is losing money, someone else is making money.

So who's hot right now? Europe? Asia?

 

[coprolalia]

So who's hot right now?

climbingdocs. 😍

-copro

 

[RxBoy]

No one is really hot right now... A great analogy would be a science one... seeing as our minds think this way....

All the kinetic energy from the US is being transferred to potential energy in all the other markets. The reason they are suffering with us is because their economy is pegged to our dollar. We sink, there economy sinks... But the entire time their economy is being filled with potential. Now whenever they depeg (stop accepting our currency as the standard), foreign economies like China are going to sky rocket while we get flooded with trillions of dollars back in our market. This is where the real inflation is going to take place. Our federal reserve is doing everything in their power to stop countries from depegging our dollar. But I think once the jig is up, and foreign economies understand we are nothing but a nation of debt... it will be an inevitable end.

 

[lord_jeebus]

I've always been taught that if someone is losing money, someone else is making money.

So who's hot right now? Europe? Asia?

The upside has already been realized by people who cashed out at the peak of the housing bubble, or made money selling mortgage securities before the panic.

 

[lord_jeebus]

No one is really hot right now... A great analogy would be a science one... seeing as our minds think this way....

All the kinetic energy from the US is being transferred to potential energy in all the other markets. The reason they are suffering with us is because their economy is pegged to our dollar. We sink, there economy sinks... But the entire time their economy is being filled with potential. Now whenever they depeg (stop accepting our currency as the standard), foreign economies like China are going to sky rocket while we get flooded with trillions of dollars back in our market. This is where the real inflation is going to take place. Our federal reserve is doing everything in their power to stop countries from depegging our dollar. But I think once the jig is up, and foreign economies understand we are nothing but a nation of debt... it will be an inevitable end.

I disagree - currency "strength" is not economic strength. Our economy is export-based, and a weak dollar is actually beneficial. Obviously hyperinflation would not be a good thing, however. (except for us with huge debt at low locked rates!)

I also disagree that foreign economies will be better off with US weakness. A strong global economy can lift all boats, and a weak one can hurt everyone.

 

[RxBoy]

I disagree - currency "strength" is not economic strength. Our economy is export-based, and a weak dollar is actually beneficial. Obviously hyperinflation would not be a good thing, however. (except for us with huge debt at low locked rates!)

I also disagree that foreign economies will be better off with US weakness. A strong global economy can lift all boats, and a weak one can hurt everyone.

You would be right if we were a country of exports... but the reality is we're not.. What do we export other than foreign labor? How are 300 million people going to survive off a country that designs our cars in india, import its material from china, assemble it in Mexico, and sell it to our own citizens? Our steel mills have been long closed, our industrial factories are nothing but urban decay, even our farming has taken a hit. We have relied on importing cheap commodities for so long that we destroyed our very essence of wealth. Our economy is almost exclusively a service economy now. Hell, even our services are being exported... Have you tried talking to a customer representative lately? I'm sure you've noticed its tough to make what they're saying through their heavy foreign language. We make no raw materials. We can probably export our research, but I am sure its far easier just to steal it. The US export business is booming now, but ask yourself why isn't this seeing a benefit to the 300 million American citizens??? Its simple, our export economy is just too damn weak.

The one thing we are superior at creating: military weapons, is the very thing that I would be scared of selling.

 

[lord_jeebus]

I shouldn't have said our economy is export-based - clearly it's not - but that exports are an area of strength. We are still one of the largest exporters in the world - and many services can be exported. We're currently exporting about a trillion dollars worth of goods and services annually, so it's not like we don't have the capacity to create things that are wanted overseas. Many raw materials that are currently imported can be obtained domestically if there is an economic need - petroleum being the big exception, and even that can be replaced with alternatives given the right political leadership.

 

[coprolalia]

The thing I am getting worried about as a student, is the fact that banks are going under. What if the bank I have my loan money in just closes up shop and the FDIC is running low on $, then what?!?!??

You have $100,000 of federally insured protection. It doesn't matter if the bank goes under. Your money is safe, unless the federal government goes belly-up, that is.

What you need to worry about is your bank selling that loan to someone else, and if you miss a payment or two, or worse default, getting screwed on the interest charges.

Banks are the problem. Not the solution. Bad loans, greed, overcharges, bloated payrolls with bloated salaries... you get the picture. A bank is still just about the worst place to keep your money.

-copro

 

[RxBoy]

I 100% agree with that... we need to be self reliant. But the reason I am scared is that the turn around for that is going to take at least a decade... Can our economy survive in the mean time? Thats the question at hand. I just feel we polarized our self for too long. We are going to be hit by a recession... Most economists agree... But how big? With all the taxpayer money being dumped into failed mega corporations (freddie mac, AIG, bear stearns) while our intrest rates fall even lower... where will the dollar be? Where will our income come from to generate the type of startup needed to be self relient? Its a bleak outlook... 🙁

 

[coprolalia]

The upside has already been realized by people who cashed out at the peak of the housing bubble, or made money selling mortgage securities before the panic.

Well, there are a lot of residents who are going to graduate in the next couple of years who are going to get a lot more house than they originally thought when the rest of the iceberg that is the current mortgage crisis finally floats fully into tropical waters and completely melts.

Boys and girls (who are current non-property owners), you are sitting in the catbird seat. There's going to be a huge fire sale, and you're gonna benefit from it.

-copro

 

[Kubed]

climbingdocs. 😍

-copro

👍

It's also important to remember that this week is triple witching hour so there will be a TON of market manipulation as people try to increase the value of the options they hold.

It's going to be interesting to see how high gold gets. The big boys have been buying it up so fast that most places haven't taken new orders for the past few weeks. Anyone else think panic buying is going to give us a 2k an oz?

 

[maceo]

I've always been taught that if someone is losing money, someone else is making money.

So who's hot right now? Europe? Asia?

thats true .. money just doesnt disappear.. it goes somewhere else..

 

[lfesiam]

Most likely, the government would pass emergency legislation to increase FDIC funding.

which means MORE TAXES! yipeee yeah!

sigh..............

 

[lord_jeebus]

which means MORE TAXES! yipeee yeah!

sigh..............

Military costs in Iraq has been much more expensive than these bailouts have been, and we didn't increase taxes for that.

It probably will mean increased debt, which eventually will become less significant with inflation. Not that that is a good thing.

 

[deleted50478]

thats true .. money just doesnt disappear.. it goes somewhere else..

It's not true, markets have been down in all the diversified economies' markets worldwide.

I don't see a huge swing from investment in the US to other countries. I mean people can park their money in anything stable like gold, some commodities, or maybe? select foreign markets which are mostly very unstable, but long term investment opportunities will still have a better risk/benefit in the US than abroad.

 

[deleted77919]

…

 

[urge]

Well, there are a lot of residents who are going to graduate in the next couple of years who are going to get a lot more house than they originally thought when the rest of the iceberg that is the current mortgage crisis finally floats fully into tropical waters and completely melt.

-copro

True. But, salaries will be a lot lower and credit will be hard to get. The overall feeling of "richness" will be gone.

We are in for a bad 30yrs. Boomers don't have retirement savings. So they will keep working. They'll live longer too. New grads will have a harder time getting jobs because of the boomers. Government will have to increase taxes or inflate the dollar. Either way, both of them have the same effect of diminishing your buying power. Americans will have to adjust to the lifestyle of any south american country. America is not rich anymore. It hasn't been since the oil ran out in the late 70's. Ever since Americans have gone into debt to maintain the same lifestyle. We have managed to accumulate so much debt that we cannot pay it back now. That's why banks are going bankrupt.

It sucks to be a young professional nowadays. We got to see how good life could be after putting all the hard work, but we'll never get to live it.

 

[foshizzo]

Great Interview with Jim Rogers:
http://www.gracecheng.com/economy/2...d-the-one-sector-every-investor-should-be-in/

The U.S. financial crisis has cut so deep - and the government has taken on so much debt in misguided attempts to bail out such companies as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - that even larger financial shocks are still to come, global investing guru Jim Rogers said in an exclusive interview.
Indeed, the U.S. financial debacle is now so ingrained - and a so-called “Super Crash” so likely - that most Americans alive today won’t be around by the time the last of this credit-market mess is finally cleared away - if it ever is, Rogers said.
The end of this...

URL to article:

http://www.gracecheng.com/economy/2...d-the-one-sector-every-investor-should-be-in/

 

[RxBoy]

"Paulson gave few details but said he would work through the weekend with leaders of Congress from both parties to flesh out the program, the biggest proposed government intervention in financial markets since the Great Depression." Yahoo News.

Jim Rogers and Peter Schiff have been the only guys that have been right all along. Now that the government is dumping 100's of billions of dollars into failed loans, kiss your dollar goodbye. Inflation is going to sky rocket. Good thing I have a good back, I'm going to need it when I wheel barrel my money to buy a hamburger.

BTW for all you short sellers out there... just thought you should know: the government block short-selling in financial securities.

 

[lord_jeebus]

BTW for all you short sellers out there... just thought you should know: the government block short-selling in financial securities.

looks like the party's over

Or is it? You can still buy put options on financials. shhhh don't tell Paulson

The Proshares Ultrashort Financials (SKF) is also still trading - I think they use some sort of instruments I don't understand to simulate leveraged shorts - but they aren't allowed to create new shares so I don't really know what the situation is there right now.

 

[RxBoy]

GREAT ARTICLE:

http://www.europac.net/externalframeset.asp?from=home&id=14065

 

[KNC]

All I have to say is.... I hope someone does something before we start using the dollar as wallpaper like some of the Germans did after WW II.......MAbe I'll just put it in a wheelbarel and burn it in the middle of the street.....

 

[jwk]

Anyone other than me shaking in their boots? Dow took a 449 dollar plunge today (4%). Of the 5 gigantic investment banks operating in the beginning of the year, only 2 survive... Bear Stearns, Merrill lynch, Lehman brothers, Freddie Mac, Fannie May, AIG... Morgan Stanley and Washington Mutual on the verge of collapse. Everyday another multibillion dollar company collapses. .. House values are half the cost of what they were in my neighborhood. Nearly impossible to take out loans now. THe value of the dollar is plummeting..

And yet by the end of the week, the market is about where it was.

The basics ALWAYS apply. Invest for the long term, diversify, sleep better. My broadly diversified portfolio in the 401k/PPS plan offered by our group is only down 1.5% since July 1. 80% stock mutual funds, 17% well-chosen individual stocks from a rollover plan, and about 3% cash.

What's irritating is that all of this is the result of greed on the part of lenders and stupidity on the part of borrowers, and neither wants to own up to their own stupid mistakes. Making 100% LTV interest-only loans topped off with a 120% LTV HELOC? Does anyone with any intelligence think that might be a little bit of a problem?

Some of you youngsters need to learn some basic economics before you get out in the real world. Start with how the FDIC works along with investing basics.

 

[coprolalia]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/banking/2008-09-21-rescue-plan_N.htm

The tidal wave is coming, folks. It's coming. What we've seen thus far is just the crest of the wave getting ready to crash on the beach... Eventually, we're going to have to pay - all of us - for this debacle. Read this article. It puts it quite bluntly.

Whalen says, "I don't think we need to rescue Wall Street. Wall Street is curing itself quite nicely. If we don't allow our people to feel pain, it's not going to inoculate them" against future crises.

-copro

 

[militarymd]

I've kept 25% of my total portfolio in cash for the last 2 years.

My financial advisors have been giving me a LOT of CRAP for keeping so much cash in a bank account...essentially getting 2 to 3 percent interest....ie losing value on account of inflation.

Guess what? My total portfolio has done quite well through all this...and I'm ready to shop for some bargains now.

I'm glad I didn't listen to those guys. I think a lot of them are out to make money for themselves with YOUR money...and that ultimately leads to this crisis.

When things seem too good to be true...like buy this house and sell it tomorrow and make money...it probably is.

Some people will get lucky, but ultimately we ALL get screwed when the artifically inflated market deflates.

I'm glad I didn't get into the making money for nothing mentality.

 

[cfdavid]

The chickens have come home to roost.

I've been shorting financials for a while now, and this is a week I've been waiting for - I've made thousands of dollars since Monday morning.

I grew up in late 80's and 90's Japan, where we had a remarkably similar situation with a housing bubble, excessive leverage, and inevitable collapse. I think the US government is handling the situation a bit more competently than the Japanese did, but there is no easy solution and I anticipate a prolonged period of economic misery.

The bright side is that our careers are much more secure than most Americans, and when it is over, we'll be in a position to get some great deals in the market and in housing.

I totally agree. The big difference is that in the 80/90's Japan, they didn't have nearly the level of government debt that the US has on it's balance sheet. It's the entire US gov't that is levered to the hilt, and not just the American people or banks.

Do not underappreciate the above dynamic. This is a big deal, and things are going to get worse for the vast majority of Americans.

 

[cfdavid]

I've kept 25% of my total portfolio in cash for the last 2 years.

My financial advisors have been giving me a LOT of CRAP for keeping so much cash in a bank account...essentially getting 2 to 3 percent interest....ie losing value on account of inflation.

Guess what? My total portfolio has done quite well through all this...and I'm ready to shop for some bargains now.

I'm glad I didn't listen to those guys. I think a lot of them are out to make money for themselves with YOUR money...and that ultimately leads to this crisis.

When things seem too good to be true...like buy this house and sell it tomorrow and make money...it probably is.

Some people will get lucky, but ultimately we ALL get screwed when the artifically inflated market deflates.

I'm glad I didn't get into the making money for nothing mentality.

In my experience, the vast majority of "financial advisors" aren't worth a sh..t.

They make money when their clients are vested, and buying. Not sitting idle on boring investments such as gold, or sitting on some cash.

These dudes are all schooled in the same model.... In comes the rep. from the mutual fund company with his pie charts and 10 year history, showing how if you invested (and held) 10k in their fund, you'd have beat the S&P 500 by X$.

But, the fundamental principle of investing is that past performance means jack. Especially, in todays world where change happens SO fast.

Sure, there are good money managers, but most funds don't have the flexibility to maneuver in volatile markets as we have today. They have restrictions, and often are required to stay vested. This means they can (and do) get their asses handed to them when, say in the case of your average U.S. Large Cap Equities Fund, finds itself in the middle of a prolonged Bear Market.

 

[cfdavid]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/banking/2008-09-21-rescue-plan_N.htm

The tidal wave is coming, folks. It's coming. What we've seen thus far is just the crest of the wave getting ready to crash on the beach... Eventually, we're going to have to pay - all of us - for this debacle. Read this article. It puts it quite bluntly.



-copro

Right on. It's a shame that it's come to this. It is what it is. Many of us have been advocating a defensive position for a long time. It's still not too late IMHO.

 

[badasshairday]

I just don't get why we are bailing them out. Let things self correct. Everything is over inflated. Let it correct, so people who were responsible could reap the benefits.

 

[KNC]

I just don't get why we are bailing them out. Let things self correct. Everything is over inflated. Let it correct, so people who were responsible could reap the benefits.

There are too many implications internationally to let this slide......That would cause a disaster within world trade....

 

[badasshairday]

There are too many implications internationally to let this slide......That would cause a disaster within world trade....

So we should all collectively pay for this even the ones who made the right decision? Why does it feel like this country is so much 10x worse then it was just 10 years ago?

 

[coprolalia]

In the U.S., we need to:

(1) Go back to the gold standard,

(2) Make CEOs of corporations financially responsible to their shareholders and not just the voting board (a lot of these guys are still going to get multi-million dollar parachutes... wait and see, if you don't believe me),

(3) Punish people - in the form of no bailouts (and, yes, that includes other companies and countries across the world) - who invest foolishly.

The two concepts, worded exactly the same, has completely fallen out of the day-to-day comprehension of the vast majority of Americans:

"Live well, within your means."

"Live well-within your means."

Why should my hard-earned cash, as someone who does both of those things, go towards greedy, over-reaching financial fools and gamblers who don't get those concepts?

😡

-copro

 

[badasshairday]

In the U.S., we need to:

(1) Go back to the gold standard,

(2) Make CEOs of corporations financially responsible to their shareholders and not just the voting board (a lot of these guys are still going to get multi-million dollar parachutes... wait and see, if you don't believe me),

(3) Punish people - in the form of no bailouts (and, yes, that includes other companies and countries across the world) - who invest foolishly.

The two concepts, worded exactly the same, has completely fallen out of the day-to-day comprehension of the vast majority of Americans:

"Live well, within your means."

"Live well-within your means."

Why should my hard-earned cash, as someone who does both of those things, go towards greedy, over-reaching financial fools and gamblers who don't get those concepts?

😡

-copro

Doctors just can't win. Either you pay up your nose in taxes to let people who don't work live off of your tax money, or you pay for super rich CEOs and wall street types to get off the hook.

 

[jetproppilot]

In Dec 2007, my investment portfolio was worth X amount.

Today, said portfolio is down THIRTY PERCENT.

WOW.

Thats THATS, UHHHH, GEEZ, ALOTTA CASH.

Thats gone.😱

I seriously wouldda been better off puttin' the s hit in a Big Bag like the dudes (DeNiro, Kilmer et al) that robbed the bank on the great, kick a ss movie HEAT and shovin' it behind my shoes in the closet.

 

[VentdependenT]

Buy Heinz ketchup.

You ever try any other ketchup that was worth a damn? Hellz no. Its rock stable. BUY BUY BUY BULL BULL BULL

 

[Gimlet]

Buy Heinz ketchup.

You ever try any other ketchup that was worth a damn? Hellz no. Its rock stable. BUY BUY BUY BULL BULL BULL

Word. I bought Hunt's once because it was on sale and to this day I still regret that purchase.

 

[maceo]

In Dec 2007, my investment portfolio was worth X amount.

Today, said portfolio is down THIRTY PERCENT.

WOW.

Thats THATS, UHHHH, GEEZ, ALOTTA CASH.

Thats gone.😱

I seriously wouldda been better off puttin' the s hit in a Big Bag like the dudes (DeNiro, Kilmer et al) that robbed the bank on the great, kick a ss movie HEAT and shovin' it behind my shoes in the closet.

thats because you are still in garmin that you were pushing last year.. that stock got the beat down of the century.. I got out of the market a few months after this sub prime **** was going on.. everyone was saying ride it out.. i said f that.. im in cash..

 

[jetproppilot]

thats because you are still in garmin that you were pushing last year.. that stock got the beat down of the century.. I got out of the market a few months after this sub prime **** was going on.. everyone was saying ride it out.. i said f that.. im in cash..

NOPE.

I sold some GRMN when it was way up, in increments, then sold the rest of GRMN on the way down when it hit the 90s (which meant the rest was good for more than a double).

GRMN, BTW, was in my little gambling account.

I'm talking about my BIG accounts....with respected investment houses, well diversified-but-aggressive, that are down 30%.

If it werent for GRMN my "gambling account" would be a memory!

That was my best stock. 400% profit. 😱

I'll bet alotta kinda-well-off-but-not-independently-wealthy americans right now are down A THIRD in their portfolios.

 

[cfdavid]

NOPE.

I sold some GRMN when it was way up, in increments, then sold the rest of GRMN on the way down when it hit the 90s (which meant the rest was good for more than a double).

GRMN, BTW, was in my little gambling account.

I'm talking about my BIG accounts....with respected investment houses, well diversified-but-aggressive, that are down 30%.

If it werent for GRMN my "gambling account" would be a memory!

That was my best stock. 400% profit. 😱

I'll bet alotta kinda-well-off-but-not-independently-wealthy americans right now are down A THIRD in their portfolios.

No doubt this is true. That's another reason I tend not to place too much value behind advisors. When's the last time you heard one of em say "dude, things are looking REALLY bad in the market. time to look into a much different approach even if it means i won't get taken out to dinner as often by the mutual fund reps".

Jet, that's not directed at you. I'm making general statements. But my experience is that (aside from a good tax guy if you require it) most advisors don't really have a clue. Most are educated (thus "cut") from the same mold. They tend to be WAY TOO optimistic. And many of their clients suffer as a result.

They'll say "ride it out". Think long term. etc. etc. They'll pull out their pie charts and show you what USED TO WORK.

But, here's the kicker. The world is now a very different place. We are witnessing economic history on an almost daily basis, and on so many fronts. It's crazy, but admittedly a bit exciting.

 

[jetproppilot]

No doubt this is true. That's another reason I tend not to place too much value behind advisors. When's the last time you heard one of em say "dude, things are looking REALLY bad in the market. time to look into a much different approach even if it means i won't get taken out to dinner as often by the mutual fund reps".

Jet, that's not directed at you. I'm making general statements. But my experience is that (aside from a good tax guy if you require it) most advisors don't really have a clue. Most are educated (thus "cut") from the same mold. They tend to be WAY TOO optimistic. And many of their clients suffer as a result.

They'll say "ride it out". Think long term. etc. etc. They'll pull out their pie charts and show you what USED TO WORK.

But, here's the kicker. The world is now a very different place. We are witnessing economic history on an almost daily basis, and on so many fronts. It's crazy, but admittedly a bit exciting.

Absolutely don't take your comments personal, friend.

I'm in for the ride.👍

 

[jetproppilot]

No doubt this is true. That's another reason I tend not to place too much value behind advisors. When's the last time you heard one of em say "dude, things are looking REALLY bad in the market. time to look into a much different approach even if it means i won't get taken out to dinner as often by the mutual fund reps".

Jet, that's not directed at you. I'm making general statements. But my experience is that (aside from a good tax guy if you require it) most advisors don't really have a clue. Most are educated (thus "cut") from the same mold. They tend to be WAY TOO optimistic. And many of their clients suffer as a result.

They'll say "ride it out". Think long term. etc. etc. They'll pull out their pie charts and show you what USED TO WORK.

But, here's the kicker. The world is now a very different place. We are witnessing economic history on an almost daily basis, and on so many fronts. It's crazy, but admittedly a bit exciting.

Funny though, CF, wunna those accounts is from a previous employer....pretty passive....no adviser calling me, etc...justa tax-deferred account (Hartford) that did really well thru about Mar 2008 without any active advisement.....literally down 30% in six months!