What to do when your PI is an irritable individual of few words (and you will need a LoR from them in the future)?

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Ihave Nonamè

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The PI in a lab I've joined is socially awkward and I knew this. Yesterday, he had scheduled to train me in something (my first time working directly with him). He showed up 5-10 minutes late and when I said hello he just kept walking without a word... and I followed. He didn't talk as I followed him through the building.

When I first gave it a try (working with mice) he was snippy and raising his voice (even just taking the lid off a cage "no no no!" and shooing my hand away). He interacted with others there without the usual pleasantries and they seemed a little on edge answering to him. As I got better with the mice over the hour, his attitude had improved but we went through all of it in silence.

I'm hoping he was just having a horrible day. Regardless I'm worried now that this may be someone I can't build a decent relationship with. I do want to gain experience here but also I will need a LoR from from him when I apply to med schools (considering the time I intend to put into research). To add to this, he agreed to bring me on and train me with the expectation that I will be hired and work for them full time in the lab after I graduate this spring. Importantly, I will need that paying job when I graduate. As a graduating senior, it would be a real challenge to find another such arrangement.

Any advice/tips for dealing with a PI (or even a boss) like this when you know you will need them to recommend you in the future? Is it even possible to get a glowing recommendation from such a person? I'll add, the person training me didn't get into the grad programs they applied to and I wonder if this PI simply wasn't much of a mentor and/or wrote about them with little effort.

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This probably isn't the answer you're looking for, but you should just leave the lab and find a new one. These are huge red flags and it's likely you won't get a good letter out of this experience, let alone the toll it will take on your mental health. I have been in 4 different labs over the past 7 years (applying MD/PhD), and I can tell you that your relationship with your PI will make a HUGE impact on your mental health, research productivity, and even how you talk about the experience during interviews. An "expectation" between you and your employer is not legally binding. Someone once said to me that employers don't give a s*** about you at the end of the day, so you need to make decisions based on what serves YOU and not your employer. Run while you can and join a new lab that better matches your needs!
 
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100% agree with @definitely_chondria . I ended up in the lab of a terrible, verbally abusive PI and it was an awful experience. Not only was it demoralizing going to work every day, but the fact that his ill-tempered made it very hard to learn anything from him since I never felt comfortable asking questions. It is hard to put out good research in that type of environment, let alone publish.

It sounds like a reason you're considering staying is because you need a job after graduation. You can find another paid opportunity. Staying here won't do much for your resume and will do bad things for your psyche.
 
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This probably isn't the answer you're looking for, but you should just leave the lab and find a new one. These are huge red flags and it's likely you won't get a good letter out of this experience, let alone the toll it will take on your mental health. I have been in 4 different labs over the past 7 years (applying MD/PhD), and I can tell you that your relationship with your PI will make a HUGE impact on your mental health, research productivity, and even how you talk about the experience during interviews. An "expectation" between you and your employer is not legally binding. Someone once said to me that employers don't give a s*** about you at the end of the day, so you need to make decisions based on what serves YOU and not your employer. Run while you can and join a new lab that better matches your needs!

100% agree with @definitely_chondria . I ended up in the lab of a terrible, verbally abusive PI and it was an awful experience. Not only was it demoralizing going to work every day, but the fact that his ill-tempered made it very hard to learn anything from him since I never felt comfortable asking questions. It is hard to put out good research in that type of environment, let alone publish.

It sounds like a reason you're considering staying is because you need a job after graduation. You can find another paid opportunity. Staying here won't do much for your resume and will do bad things for your psyche.

How about getting through much of the training first so that I have skills on my resume for the next lab? This way I would at least do better applying for a paid position.

With the pandemic, all undergrads were denied the opportunity to join or return to labs for 9+ months. Several still are stating that they have reduced capacity. When looking for a lab a couple months ago, one PI responded "As I'm sure you're aware we're in the middle of a pandemic..."
I honestly do not believe I have a choice. This was a rare opportunity.

So I suppose with such a person, it must be better to try to keep distant while just getting work done and perfecting it.
 
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How about getting through much of the training first so that I have skills on my resume for the next lab? This way I would at least do better applying for a paid position.

With the pandemic, all undergrads were denied the opportunity to join or return to labs for 9+ months. Several still are stating that they have reduced capacity. When looking for a lab a couple months ago, one PI responded "As I'm sure you're aware we're in the middle of a pandemic..."
I honestly do not believe I have a choice. This was a rare opportunity.

So I suppose with such a person, it must be better to try to keep distant while just getting work done and perfecting it.
I would start your search now - a lot more positions are available now compared to a couple months ago. Keep your current position until you are 100% sure you have something else lined up. Labs tend to hire new technicians between March - August to replace students who are leaving for medical/graduate school.

Staying distant from your PI won’t help your research either - this will limit your opportunities to ask questions and have creative input on your project. Though your relationship with your PI may seem trivial right now, almost all graduate students will say your PI and their mentorship style is the single most important thing to consider when picking a lab, and that’s for good reason...
 
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I would start your search now - a lot more positions are available now compared to a couple months ago. Keep your current position until you are 100% sure you have something else lined up. Labs tend to hire new technicians between March - August to replace students who are leaving for medical/graduate school.

Staying distant from your PI won’t help your research either - this will limit your opportunities to ask questions and have creative input on your project. Though your relationship with your PI may seem trivial right now, almost all graduate students will say your PI and their mentorship style is the single most important thing to consider when picking a lab, and that’s for good reason...
Damn this is unfortunate. I'd actually liked working with the two others in the lab these past two months and think I would be learning more than in other labs that just have undergrads washing dishes, stocking, etc.
 
If you want to really build a good relationship with any PI, you need to work there full-time so that your PI actually pays attention to you. Most PIs I've met treat undergrads basically as free/cheap labor for dishes, stocking, or maybe a simple quality assurance PCR. If your school offers a 10-week summer research internship, you should definitely apply and join a lab full-time.

With that being said, I'm really sorry about your situation. My guess is that your PI is an assistant professor who has no breaks scrapping for publications in his CV. I'm not sure how you ended up working for your current PI, but I would transfer to a different lab if I were you. Here are some of the factors that you should consider before cold-emailing professors: number of citations in google scholar (2000+ = star), do they include undergrads in publications (search google scholar or ask your friends), and most importantly does the research actually interest you.

Don't just pick a lab as a checkbox for pre-med requirement. Research is a whole lot more than transferring blots, and things that you learn in labs will last lifetime throughout MD career. In fact, if you're aiming for a competitive medical specialty, it's expected that you have some quality research work/publications - some MD graduates even take research fellowship years just to bulk up their publication stats.
 
If you want to really build a good relationship with any PI, you need to work there full-time so that your PI actually pays attention to you. Most PIs I've met treat undergrads basically as free/cheap labor for dishes, stocking, or maybe a simple quality assurance PCR. If your school offers a 10-week summer research internship, you should definitely apply and join a lab full-time.

With that being said, I'm really sorry about your situation. My guess is that your PI is an assistant professor who has no breaks scrapping for publications in his CV. I'm not sure how you ended up working for your current PI, but I would transfer to a different lab if I were you. Here are some of the factors that you should consider before cold-emailing professors: number of citations in google scholar (2000+ = star), do they include undergrads in publications (search google scholar or ask your friends), and most importantly does the research actually interest you.

Don't just pick a lab as a checkbox for pre-med requirement. Research is a whole lot more than transferring blots, and things that you learn in labs will last lifetime throughout MD career. In fact, if you're aiming for a competitive medical specialty, it's expected that you have some quality research work/publications - some MD graduates even take research fellowship years just to bulk up their publication stats.
I am interested in the research overall -CNS repair.

This PI has just returned from several years overseas and is trying to get up and running again. He is cited by 13k but his name is tied to a few more prominent names. The postdoc and I are both relatively new (a few months). One person was working for him prior to us joining (research associate). This PI is not teaching.

I can't lie, I've been a little busy to focus on getting into another lab at this moment.
 
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You should not tolerate anything that is abusive or feels bad, and I echo others' thoughts about leaving if you do not think this relationship will be good over the long term. That said, it sounds like you enjoy this research, get along with your coworkers, and may get some cool opportunities to learn new stuff beyond what some undergrads get to do. If the latter is true and you develop a good relationship with this person, more cool stuff may come your way. Moreover, these types of people tend to be pretty independent/value independence, so if you can show that you're self-motivated, can be trustworthy while working independently, and don't need handholding, you might get some free rein to do some neat stuff. Of course, I don't know this person and could be 100% wrong. Either way, it sounds like you aren't in a position to leave right away, so I'm giving you some tips that have worked for me when I've dealt with people like this.

I've found "mirroring" to be effective for these very serious, cold, awkward types. Be sure to greet him politely, but after that follow his lead. If he stays silent, you can stay silent. If he doesn't small talk, you don't make small talk. If he handles mice or lab equipment a certain way, notice and copy what he does. If he has certain little things he's picky about (labeling tubes a certain way, etc.), take note and be careful about those things too. The trick is to stay calm and unruffled while you're doing this. Maintain a peaceful silence, not an awkward one. Use the silence to take in every little detail. If he corrects you, try not to be rattled and do NOT take it personally. Take a deep breath and say something like "ok, I understand now. Thanks for showing me that." Doing these things will non-verbally communicate "I can see that you are somebody who doesn't like small talk, may appear cold and awkward, and is stressed/grumpy about something else going on. I accept this about you, you being like this doesn't rattle me, and I am taking seriously the things that you take seriously." This can help validate him in a way that will improve your relationship.

I am also somebody whose default setting is to be introverted, dislike small talk, and come off as chilly (though I would like to think that I have decent social skills and come off better than this PI), so I find it rather natural to "mirror" these types and speak (usually silently lol) their language when they're my boss. Speaking from personal experience, these types of people can deeply appreciate, admire, and respect others, even if they're terrible at showing it. If this individual is just awkward and not talkative (and not abusive, evil, or creepy), I'm optimistic that you can form a good relationship with him if you can meet him on his level. It may not be a relationship with lots of effusive praise or chatter, but a positive, meaningful relationship doesn't necessarily require those things. If you are a good employee, you may be surprised by how much he actually likes you.

Other than that, keep on doing the normal things that make somebody good in the lab. Be on time, get along with your coworkers, work hard, show interest, etc. If he ever mentions something like "it'd be nice if we could do xyz," ask if you could do it. Do what you can to show him that you value what he values, whether that's punctuality, hard work, organization, cleanliness, etc. I'm guessing you are probably communicating with him a lot over email, try and figure out what sorts of emails he prefers. For example, on the scale of micromanaging to hands-off, my PI leans towards the former. If we are emailing about something I provide lots of detail about what is going on and why I chose to do something a certain way, and he obviously appreciates this. Other PIs may have the mindset of "I don't give a **** and don't have time to read this," in which case you'll want to write differently. And finally, always remember to say "thank you" whenever you meet with him.

Only you can decide if this relationship is going to work. If it doesn't, that doesn't mean that you are a failure or did something wrong. Sometimes people just don't click, or are impossible to please, and that's ok. I wish you the best as you navigate this.

EDIT: Another thing that works well with most people is to show that you care about them by showing that you remember certain details about them. For example, if he mentions that one of his family members is ill, you could politely ask after them during a quiet moment (not while he's training you to do something). While this may be in the category of small talk, it is a gesture that shows that you 1) remember and 2) care and is far more meaningful than "hey Dr. X, what did you do this weekend?" Most people appreciate someone caring about them even if they're bad at showing it.
 
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