What to do?

[ncb]

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I have an undergrad GPA of 3.33 in engineering from an Ivy, however took 6 classes this past year at Harvard Extension/Summer school and didn't do so well...B minuses in Bio, but an A- in Orgo over the summer leaving me with a a 3.18 for the postbacc. I am technically done with all of the premed classes, but have 2 years before (hopefully) med school. My question is what should I do in these 2 years, (both academics and workwise) to give myself the best chance of medical school acceptance? Would research at a major Boston hospital be the way to go? How much do these jobs pay? Are they hard to get? I would like to save as much money as possible for school so what about health care policy consulting or something along those lines? Sorry for all of the questions, but any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

Quite honestly, I would take more classes and/or start thinking of a plan B. You did WORSE in your post-bac/pre-med coursework than in your other coursework. That will not look good. You need to take more classes and get all As. Also, you can study for the MCAT and do really, really well (I'm thinking that you will easily need a 35+) Most of all, you need to understand why you didn't do well in your classes and do what you have to do to fix what was wrong so that you can get all As from now on.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

I guess you're applying next summer and hoping to matriculate in 2008? Well, if you've finished the pre-reqs get ready for the MCAT. You need to rock it!

I think you'll find your GPA the biggest hurdle -- the average accepted student is around 3.6 (allopathic schools). If you need the MD you're probably going to want to take upper-level science courses and do well in them.

You might find more love at osteopathic schools, who are traditionally more forgiving on the GPA/MCAT scores.

Research is good. Any work you do that's medically related is good. Try to find something (work, volunteer) where you "smell patients." It doesn't have to be your full-time gig, but you should have some experience dealing with people in a clinical setting. Shadowing a physician might be helpful.

 

[ncb]

Thanks for the advice. I understand that the average gpa of the matriculating student is around 3.6, however one question I have is how much, if at all, can a school's reputation make up for a subpar gpa? Harvard Extension is open enrollment, but relatively difficult. Will the fact that I did a postbacc at HES count for anything?

 

[njbmd]

Thanks for the advice. I understand that the average gpa of the matriculating student is around 3.6, however one question I have is how much, if at all, can a school's reputation make up for a subpar gpa? Harvard Extension is open enrollment, but relatively difficult. Will the fact that I did a postbacc at HES count for anything?

Your undergraduate school reputation is NOT going to make up for a sub-par GPA. Your post-bacc could have accomplished that had you done a better job at "damage control". At this point, you would be wise to take some upper division science courses and get As (not A-, not B+).

You could also help your cause by having an excellent performance on the MCAT. By excellent, I mean take the test once and score well above 30 (the averge for students who matriculated in medical school in 2004).

You still have some significant work to do on your GPA and if you have not taken the MCAT, you have some significant work to do in preparing for that test.

Good luck!

 

[ncb]

My final question: Will taking a year of physics and doing well help my cause, or will A's in Physics not carry as much weight because I took engineering courses in college? (With written permission two engineering courses from undergrad could be substituted for the med school physics requirement, but I think I can boost my postbacc gpa with a year of physics).

 

[njbmd]

My final question: Will taking a year of physics and doing well help my cause, or will A's in Physics not carry as much weight because I took engineering courses in college? (With written permission two engineering courses from undergrad could be substituted for the med school physics requirement, but I think I can boost my postbacc gpa with a year of physics).

An A in any class will boost your GPA. You can boost faster with science courses and get some practice for the MCAT. Just be sure that you are getting As. You can calculate just how much your As in physics will boost your GPA so do this calculation. In any event, you need to do some elevation. By calculating how much your physics As will help you, you can get an idea if you need more.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

Thanks for the advice. I understand that the average gpa of the matriculating student is around 3.6, however one question I have is how much, if at all, can a school's reputation make up for a subpar gpa? Harvard Extension is open enrollment, but relatively difficult. Will the fact that I did a postbacc at HES count for anything?

Had you gotten all As in your post-bac, that would've looked very good, and would have made the statement that while your past GPA was a little lackluster, you are now ready to rock.....but the fact that you did worse in your post-bac classes than in your previous coursework doesn't look good.

Also, since you seemed to do well in your Ochem classes, but not your Bio classes, you might want to ask yourself, "Why medicine?" What about Pharm. or something more Chemistry-related? Not trying to pick on you, just throwing out some thoughts.

 

[mshheaddoc]

My insight, I'm going to suggest to the OP that taking upper level bio classes will give you a great opportunity to bring that post bacc up to the 3.5+ range. This isn't the right "attitude" that you want to start off with if this is a serious endeavor for you.

Also just consider why you didn't do so well. Did you not put enough time into it? Something to consider if you are looking to improve in the future 😀

Also, there has been the debate of whether the school/major really makes a difference. To some schools, it really does. If its a known program that is harder, it might be taken into account.

You could always ask some of your area med schools for feedback.

I agree with previous posters that you need to work on your GPA, also remember EC's and research if you can. Make sure you stay "active" in medical field some how. You are working towards a goal and a year commitment will show alot.

 

[ncb]

Thank you everyone for your advice. I now know what I need to do to better my chances. I'm pretty set on medicine...pharmacy just doesn't seem as appealing. I am hesitant to take upper level bio classes because I'm unsure that I can get A's, however I haven't taken "MCAT Physics" since high school over 5 years ago and if I get an A in both semesters of Physics this year, my gpa would be 3.39. Would this gpa combined with a solid MCAT make me a competitive med school applicant?

 

[mshheaddoc]

Also because you have only taken a few post-bacc classes, the MORE you take the better it looks. Overall gpa is going to be pretty important as well. If you don't know if you can do well in upper bio classes (A's/B's) how do you know you can handle med school?

 

[ncb]

I just meant that I don't know if I could get A's in upper level Bio classes. I'm pretty sure I could get B's, and thus do well in med school, but at this point I need A's, and Physics would be my best chance at getting A's.

 

[Law2Doc]

Thanks for the advice. I understand that the average gpa of the matriculating student is around 3.6, however one question I have is how much, if at all, can a school's reputation make up for a subpar gpa? Harvard Extension is open enrollment, but relatively difficult. Will the fact that I did a postbacc at HES count for anything?

You need to use the time to address your problems and those happen to be your GPA. Research and other ECs are not a substitute. So you must take more science classes and get A's to make yourself competitive. The reputation of HES is great, but there are plenty of folks who come out of there with mostly A's, so a string of B-'s in some of the prereqs is problematic. You need to show recent success in hard sciences. In my opinion, taking a slate of upper level physics creates a harder to explain path than taking something more premed related, like upper level bio or biochem. You don't want your record to suggest a glaring inability to do bio courses, since some of those are more similar to med school classes than physics would be.

 

[ncb]

Its kind of off topic, but I'm frustrated because I can't help but feel that if I went to a state school, saved thousands of dollars, studied less and achieved better grades, I would be in a better position than I currently stand.

Apparently I'm not the only one who feels this way.

"I've taken classes at multiple schools. My main undergrad was a top 20 private school. The others were top 10 public, top 40 overall. The top 20 school forced me to think like hell, and getting the grades were NOT a breeze. At the public schools, I didn't have to break a sweat [or even study] to get 4.0's. All of my friends who have been to top AND lower ranked schools [so far] agree."

It doesn't seem like reputation of school counts as much as it should. Hypothetical. Which one is a better applicant?
State school: 3.86 gpa and 30 MCAT or top 20 school: 3.32 gpa and 33 MCAT.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

Its kind of off topic, but I'm frustrated because I can't help but feel that if I went to a state school, saved thousands of dollars, studied less and achieved better grades, I would be in a better position than I currently stand.

Apparently I'm not the only one who feels this way.

"I've taken classes at multiple schools. My main undergrad was a top 20 private school. The others were top 10 public, top 40 overall. The top 20 school forced me to think like hell, and getting the grades were NOT a breeze. At the public schools, I didn't have to break a sweat [or even study] to get 4.0's. All of my friends who have been to top AND lower ranked schools [so far] agree."

It doesn't seem like reputation of school counts as much as it should. Hypothetical. Which one is a better applicant?
State school: 3.86 gpa and 30 MCAT or top 20 school: 3.32 gpa and 33 MCAT.

I'll disagree with you. I've undertaken engineering coursework at a decent state school (Mizzou) and a nice private (WashU). There was no appreciable difference in the difficulty of the coursework in my experience.

 

[ncb]

Interesting...I'd be curious to know what other people who have gone to both state and private school think.

A friend of mine majored in finance at a decent state school and after graduating said that our public high school was harder than his undergrad.

 

[pingouin]

I went to private undergrad and grad schools, and am at a state school for my post-bacc to save on money, and for the flexibility in scheduling classes.

I've repeated some of my BCPM requirements due to time elapsed since undergrad, and from what I recall, my recent coursework was much more strenuous than what I did in undergrad. More projects in and outside of lab, mandatory (graded) discussion groups with multiple projects...

and to make it an n=2, a fellow post-bacc student went to the same undergrad I did a few years after me, and feels the same way.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

Interesting...I'd be curious to know what other people who have gone to both state and private school think.

A friend of mine majored in finance at a decent state school and after graduating said that our public high school was harder than his undergrad.

I went to both a private school and a public school. I felt that the education that I received from the private school was far superior, but in terms of workload, difficulty, etc there wasn't THAT much of a difference between the private and public schools. This topic has come up before, and the reputation of your school WILL be taken into account, but not as much as you'd like. ADCOMs know that better High School students go to better colleges, and with most classes curved, the students at the better schools have stiffer competition, resulting in less benefit from the curve, etc. That's why it's difficult to ascertain your chances from GPA alone, because that is one of the primary purposes of the MCAT -- to provide some standard of comparison between applicants from different schools.

....and to answer your earlier question, the applicant with the higher GPA and slightly lower MCAT (yet still >= 30) will probably be more attractive applicant, unfortunately (I have a slightly lower than average GPA from a prestigious top-notch in my field private school, and a comfortably higher than average MCAT, so I feel your pain, but that's just the way it is.)

 

[NonTradMed]

I have an undergrad GPA of 3.33 in engineering from an Ivy, however took 6 classes this past year at Harvard Extension/Summer school and didn't do so well...B minuses in Bio, but an A- in Orgo over the summer leaving me with a a 3.18 for the postbacc. I am technically done with all of the premed classes, but have 2 years before (hopefully) med school. My question is what should I do in these 2 years, (both academics and workwise) to give myself the best chance of medical school acceptance? Would research at a major Boston hospital be the way to go? How much do these jobs pay? Are they hard to get? I would like to save as much money as possible for school so what about health care policy consulting or something along those lines? Sorry for all of the questions, but any advice would be appreciated.

Your post-bacc grades are low, and that's bad since you are trying to raise your GPA. Actually, your 3.3 in engineering from a top school wasn't too bad as long as you do well on the MCAT, but your 3.18 at a postbacc kind of made it looked bad. My background is similar to yours. I was also engineering at a selective college (not ivy though) and I came out with a 3.4. My GPA was not an issue, but my BCPM was lukewarm since I did some crazy scheduling when I took those classes. I did ok on the MCAT and took some upper level science classes at the local school and I ended up getting into the local state med school. I think that may be what you need to do. Harvard or not, a 3.18 at *any* school is not good for med school. Spend the next two years proving that the last year's grade was a fluke. I think it goes without saying that you need to do well on the MCAT. A 30 is what you should aim for. Also, depending on where your state residency is, you may find it easier or harder to get into with your current status.


FYI, I took classes at two public universities but went to a selective private university for my undergrad. I found the coursework much more difficult at my school than at the public mainly because they curved harder, their exams were much harder, they taught at a more advanced level (my freshmen bio class covered stuff that was not covered until much later in the public school's upper level cell bio course). The amount of work I put in to get a B at my undergrad, I got an A at the public school I attended.

However, I think it was an unfair comparison. My school was well known for it's bio curriculum and the school where I took the other bio courses at were kind of known to be more of a commuter/adult education types. I actually do believe that the top public schools are comparable to the top private elites (Berkely vs. Johns Hopkins etc). Would I have gone to a public school had there been a good one near where I lived? Yup. However, I didn't have one nearby, and I got a scholarship to attend a private so I ended up paying the same amount as alot of kids at the public schools. A win win for me. 😀

 

[Law2Doc]

Interesting...I'd be curious to know what other people who have gone to both state and private school think.

A friend of mine majored in finance at a decent state school and after graduating said that our public high school was harder than his undergrad.

I've gone to both and found that there was significantly more grade inflation at the prestigious private school. Tests tended to be curved around a B, whereas at public school they tended to be curved around a C and at the public school they were willing to fail far more people. So in my opinion the private schools often give their students the boost you think is warranted, even before the application process.
Also it's dangerous to go on to grad school thinking you know more than others, or are a better student, based on your undergrad. There will always be folks who come out of schools you never heard of that trounce you soundly on every test.