What would you do if you were in my shoes?

[md953]

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I realize that. I just get mad when fellow SDNers go off on people and tell them hang it up, and that they have no chance. My statement was more directed at doglover than you. Best of luck!

I know, I totally agree with you. I knew it was coming before I posted thats why I said I dont need to know "what are my chances?" but i listed my grades so that people can better tell me if i should retake classes or not.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

I know, I totally agree with you. I knew it was coming before I posted thats why I said I dont need to know "what are my chances?" but i listed my grades so that people can better tell me if i should retake classes or not.

My advisors have told me not to repeat courses. I got C's in Physics I and II in my freshman year, and even though they are dragging my overall GPA down they suggest that I just take higher-level courses that relate to medical school studies.

 

[trustwomen]

If it is the dream of such applicants to get into medical school, then why haven't they worked harder? Simple question. How you explain a history of B and C quality work?

Well, in my late teens I didn't know I wanted to go to medical school. I graduated highschool two years early, moved out, had my own apartment, two jobs, a boyfriend with a motorcycle, and a whole pile of friends. Oh, and I was in university too. Didn't go to class. Should have flunked out at Christmas, like many of my friends, but I have a somewhat freakish brain and passed almost everything (sometimes barely). Repeat for the next four years, and throw in a change of major and then a second degree for good measure. Never developed study habits, never needed to. (BTW, the "naturally" brightest kids are often the laziest/least self-disciplined, because they never had to work at school, ever.)

Ten years later, it's still a constant struggle against procrastination. I still have relatively weak self-discipline on many levels, but I get As while taking a full course load plus working 30+ hours/week. I know I study far less than my B classmates, but the main difference for me is - I now show up to class. Maybe these students only realized they wanted to go to med school recently. Not everyone knows when they are 16.

 

[tennisguy896]

I realize that. I just get mad when fellow SDNers go off on people and tell them hang it up, and that they have no chance. My statement was more directed at doglover than you. Best of luck!

I've never told anyone to give up on their dreams, and I don't think Doglover was doing that either. We are simply being realistic and encouraging the OP to consider the possibility that medicine may not be for him/her. If we all tell the OP, "sure, just keep plugging away and eventually you'll get in" that's worse than telling him the truth. The fact is that each year, only 50% of medical school applicants get in, and that includes non-traditionals.

 

[tennisguy896]

Well, in my late teens I didn't know I wanted to go to medical school. I graduated highschool two years early, moved out, had my own apartment, two jobs, a boyfriend with a motorcycle, and a whole pile of friends. Oh, and I was in university too. Didn't go to class. Should have flunked out at Christmas, like many of my friends, but I have a somewhat freakish brain and passed almost everything (sometimes barely). Repeat for the next four years, and throw in a change of major and then a second degree for good measure. Never developed study habits, never needed to. (BTW, the "naturally" brightest kids are often the laziest/least self-disciplined, because they never had to work at school, ever.)

Ten years later, it's still a constant struggle against procrastination. I still have relatively weak self-discipline on many levels, but I get As while taking a full course load plus working 30+ hours/week. I know I study far less than my B classmates, but the main difference for me is - I now show up to class. Maybe these students only realized they wanted to go to med school recently. Not everyone knows when they are 16.

So when you were getting bad grades, you were a slacker, yes?

 

[trustwomen]

So when you were getting bad grades, you were a slacker, yes?

Absolutely. I've already copped to it. Slackers probably have a better chance of turning it around than those who actually do their best and still wind up with a 3.0. The OP is planning to do at least two more years, and make them count. If I were an adcomm, that would be good enough for me.

 

[tennisguy896]

Ok guys, I quit. This isn't going anywhere.

 

[Doglover4fever]

(BTW, the "naturally" brightest kids are often the laziest/least self-disciplined, because they never had to work at school, ever.)

BTW, the naturally BEST doctors are NOT the laziest/least self-disciplined!

 

[TypeA]

People make mistakes in their lives, have personal issues that come up (illness, etc.) or don't decide on a career path until late into their undergraduate career. Being a doctor requires all sorts of people to practice good medicine and to provide for the general population. Many people that work hard aren't necessarily cut out for medicine just as people that slack off aren't cut out for medicine. It's not all GPA, MCAT, LOR, Who You Know, Your Life Experience. It's a combination of everything that will get you into medical school.

How are you going to be a good physician if you easily pass judgement on people and dismiss their hopes and dreams? Academia, the pressures to succeed, being around smart people, etc. can really twist one's perception of what the real world is like. We have to understand, work with real people out there when we become physicians.

I concur... you guys would think differently about your supposed "honesty" if the tables were turned. I can see phrases such as "who are you to judge me" and "you don't have any idea what I was going through" being posted. Applying is a terrifying thing if you want it badly enough. So I ask...who are YOU to tell someone to look else where?

 

[bbas]

Yes.

The assertion that having a 3.0 in college means you are a slacker is ridiculous. I know several people who have to work their butt off just to maintain a 3.0 college GPA, which I might add is well above average in the non-premed world. It's easy to automatically assume that a 3.0 student is a slacker, but unless you know the person's specific circumstances thats a gross generalization to make.

 

[md953]

The assertion that having a 3.0 in college means you are a slacker is ridiculous. I know several people who have to work their butt off just to maintain a 3.0 college GPA, which I might add is well above average in the non-premed world. It's easy to automatically assume that a 3.0 student is a slacker, but unless you know the person's specific circumstances thats a gross generalization to make.

Totally agree. Someone with a 3.0 college GPA is not necessarily a slacker. Needless to say, there is an upward trend from every semester. Making such generalizations is ridiculous because these people don't know other person's situation/circumstances.

 

[Doglover4fever]

I concur... you guys would think differently about your supposed "honesty" if the tables were turned. I can see phrases such as "who are you to judge me" and "you don't have any idea what I was going through" being posted. Applying is a terrifying thing if you want it badly enough. So I ask...who are YOU to tell someone to look else where?

Look, I know all of you people who have poor stats and took ten years to "find your way" are going to disagree with me, so this will be my last post. What tennisguy and I are saying is that there are enough applicants who work hard from the get-go, and do well all the way through to fill all of the medical school spots three times over. This person asked for advice, I did not force him to make the OP. Instead of giving him a pat on the back, like I know he was expecting, I told him the truth. If you guys can't handle being told you need good grades to get into medical school, what can I say. I know some people get in with crappy numbers, and I don't pretend to know why (no one does), the world is not a FAIR place.

PS. I have been dealing with personal health problems, and horrible family tragedies for the past five years. My heart goes out to everyone in similar situations. However, I don't think hanging out with your friends and partying classify as a good excuse for a poor perfomance. Trustwoman, I don't know where you were accepted, but you beat the odds. Most people would not be so lucky

 

[md953]

Look, I know all of you people who have poor stats and took ten years to "find your way" are going to disagree with me, so this will be my last post. What tennisguy and I are saying is that there are enough applicants who work hard from the get-go, and do well all the way through to fill all of the medical school spots three times over. This person asked for advice, I did not force him to make the OP. Instead of giving him a pat on the back, like I know he was expecting, I told him the truth. If you guys can't handle being told you need good grades to get into medical school, what can I say. I know some people get in with crappy numbers, and I don't pretend to know why (no one does), the world is not a FAIR place.

PS. I have been dealing with personal health problems, and horrible family tragedies for the past five years. My heart goes out to everyone in similar situations. However, I don't think hanging out with your friends and partying classify as a good excuse for a poor perfomance. Trustwoman, I don't know where you were accepted, but you beat the odds. Most people would not be so lucky

Again, you are making assumptions! You are assuming a 3.0 student parties hard.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

One word I think we pre-meds seem to forget: compassion

 

[bbas]

I am not a mean person, I just get annoyed when people with really low stats act like they should be able to slack off and screw around for 3 years, and then all of the sudden, decide they want to be a doctor. The OP was obviously looking for a confidence boost, not honest advice. For most of us, this goal has required years and years of effort, anxiety, and sacrifice. I am not talking about one or two weak grades here, I am talking about a record (3.0!) that demonstrates years of below average performance. One thing I have learned from this whole process is that nothing is guarantied, and that there are hundreds and hundreds of amazing people fighting for a few precious seats. I just don't get how the OP could do so poorly and then get offended when someone suggests that maybe medicine is not the right career path for him/her. Not everyone was cut out to be a doctor, and there is nothing wrong with that! The world would be pretty boring if everyone picked the same career field. All I was saying was that the OP might want to think about finding a better use of his/her time.

There is also a reason why GPA is only one part of the admissions game. Schools could easily fill their classes with students who all have 3.8+ GPA's and consider nothing else, but they don't. Why? Because having a 3.8 in some college science courses does not guarantee you will be a good doctor, just as someone who has a 3.0 does not gurantee that you will be a bad one.

 

[bbas]

Look, I know all of you people who have poor stats and took ten years to "find your way" are going to disagree with me, so this will be my last post. What tennisguy and I are saying is that there are enough applicants who work hard from the get-go, and do well all the way through to fill all of the medical school spots three times over. This person asked for advice, I did not force him to make the OP. Instead of giving him a pat on the back, like I know he was expecting, I told him the truth. If you guys can't handle being told you need good grades to get into medical school, what can I say. I know some people get in with crappy numbers, and I don't pretend to know why (no one does), the world is not a FAIR place.

PS. I have been dealing with personal health problems, and horrible family tragedies for the past five years. My heart goes out to everyone in similar situations. However, I don't think hanging out with your friends and partying classify as a good excuse for a poor perfomance. Trustwoman, I don't know where you were accepted, but you beat the odds. Most people would not be so lucky

No one is saying that people with subpar grades should get in. However, telling someone with a 3.0 that they need to consider another profession is nonsense. While it is true that the person with a 3.0 will probably not get in right out of undergrad (unless they have very impressive EC's/MCAT), there are opportunitites to raise that GPA and improve one's application. This is why post-bac programs exist. Furthermore, telling someone to "settle" for another profession, such as nursing or PA, is even worse. The person will likely be miserable and burned out which is dangerous, especially in the healthcare field.

 

[Doglover4fever]

Again, you are making assumptions! You are assuming a 3.0 student parties hard.

Oh really....

"moved out, had my own apartment, two jobs, a boyfriend with a motorcycle, and a whole pile of friends. Oh, and I was in university too. Didn't go to class. Should have flunked out at Christmas, like many of my friends...."

 

[TriniToDeBone]

Okay, Like everyone else said work hard, show improvemement, taking your time is a good idea - post bac can help and look at DO schools as well. As for the international part - look very carefully at schools that will take applications from international students, some don't - use the MSAR, school's webites and call their offices to verify this. I have a friend who is international and was able to get into medical school this cycle. I don't know the details but obviously this success story indicates it's possible. The problem you may face is finding a US cosigner for your loans - if that's not an issue go for it. By hte way GPA, prestige of undergrad instituion, MCAT, etc, etc are not the only factors - Med schools look at the whole package.
"Where there is a will there is a way!" Good luck!

 

[haleyrockx]

Oh really....

"moved out, had my own apartment, two jobs, a boyfriend with a motorcycle, and a whole pile of friends. Oh, and I was in university too. Didn't go to class. Should have flunked out at Christmas, like many of my friends...."

She also said she was 16 then. Who, at 16, had the maturity and responsiblity level needed to succeed in college? Very, very few people. It's not like she was doing that at 25- then it would have been slacking, but not at 16.

 

[trustwomen]

BTW, the naturally BEST doctors are NOT the laziest/least self-disciplined!

I never said they were. Just that you can't assume that slackers aren't smart, and/or will never be able to turn it around. They often are, and they sometimes do.

 

[trustwomen]

The assertion that having a 3.0 in college means you are a slacker is ridiculous. I know several people who have to work their butt off just to maintain a 3.0 college GPA, which I might add is well above average in the non-premed world. It's easy to automatically assume that a 3.0 student is a slacker, but unless you know the person's specific circumstances thats a gross generalization to make.

Unfortunately, those who are not slackers (and are busting their hump for that 3.0) probably won't ever make it to med school. You can't "turn it around" if you're doing everything you can to begin with. Now, do I think that solid-B students could make very good doctors, absolutely yes. But the current system is not structured that way, unfortunately.

 

[haleyrockx]

I never said they were. Just that you can't assume that slackers aren't smart, and/or will never be able to turn it around. They often are, and they sometimes do.

Congrats to you for getting in. You have to work much harder when you are a non-trad, but you also appreciate it more. You are proof that the adcoms know what they are doing. 🙂

 

[md953]

Unfortunately, those who are not slackers (and are busting their hump for that 3.0) probably won't ever make it to med school. You can't "turn it around" if you're doing everything you can to begin with. Now, do I think that solid-B students could make very good doctors, absolutely yes. But the current system is not structured that way, unfortunately.

Yeah, absolutely. But what I was saying was that a B student is not necassarily a slacker. Obviously, some studying habits have to be changed but doesnt make them a "slacker".

 

[trustwomen]

Oh really....

"moved out, had my own apartment, two jobs, a boyfriend with a motorcycle, and a whole pile of friends. Oh, and I was in university too. Didn't go to class. Should have flunked out at Christmas, like many of my friends...."

Please note that it was me, and not the OP, that did this. I already copped to being a slacker then. However, there are other reasons that people could have a low GPA. You can't just look at a GPA and say "that's it, buddy, you're done". You certainly would have said that about me as I was going back to school three years ago, with my old 2.5... and you'd have been wrong.

You say I beat the odds... really? I did an entire science degree with a 3.74 GPA (that's what it was at application time, I'll graduate with a 3.75), got a 35S on the MCAT, and have life/work/volunteer experience up the proverbial wazoo. I did beat the odds, inasmuch as only 20% of Canadian applicants get in every year (compared to 50% of US grads), but McGill didn't lower their standards for me. They just counted my recent degree for my GPA, and not my old humanities degrees. This seems like a reasonable approach, no? It's certainly an approach that will get you a better overall quality of students (and future doctors) than just taking the "gunners" who have been studying for this since puberty.

Anyone with stellar stats (3.8 and good MCAT definitely counts) should be able to get in somewhere, unless they applied to "reach" schools only, or - more likely - their PS and interview didn't shine. Arrogance, or thinking that you are better than other people, is a sure way to turn off an interviewer. (And it's one of those character flaws that people never really know they have.)

 

[trustwomen]

One word I think we pre-meds seem to forget: compassion

Thank you for saying this!!! Having compassion for others is an essential quality for doctors - and you don't learn it in class. (Having compassion also generally precludes crapping all over people's dreams, even in an anonymous forum.) I'd take a compassionate 3.4 over an arrogant 4.0 anyday - and I suspect many adcomms would too. Those who have low GPAs and want to be doctors; make sure that you CAN do the science (i.e. if you are working hard and still getting Bs and Cs, maybe it is beyond your reach), make sure it's what you want, and take as long as you need. If you just can't make the grades no matter what you do, or if you aren't willing to sacrifice a great deal to make it happen, then start looking for other options. But don't let people tell you that slackers can't change - and the life you're living (up) now will actually help you later on.

If a doctor has never failed at anything in their entire life, has never been ashamed or kicked themselves or picked themselves up after making a huge mistake, if they've never been the loser in any scenario, how will they relate to their "imperfect" patients?

 

[md953]

Thank you for saying this!!! Having compassion for others is an essential quality for doctors - and you don't learn it in class. (Having compassion also generally precludes crapping all over people's dreams, even in an anonymous forum.) I'd take a compassionate 3.4 over an arrogant 4.0 anyday - and I suspect many adcomms would too. Those who have low GPAs and want to be doctors; make sure that you CAN do the science (i.e. if you are working hard and still getting Bs and Cs, maybe it is beyond your reach), make sure it's what you want, and take as long as you need. If you just can't make the grades no matter what you do, or if you aren't willing to sacrifice a great deal to make it happen, then start looking for other options. But don't let people tell you that slackers can't change - and the life you're living (up) now will actually help you later on.

If a doctor has never failed at anything in their entire life, has never been ashamed or kicked themselves or picked themselves up after making a huge mistake, if they've never been the loser in any scenario, how will they relate to their "imperfect" patients?

I know!

The more times you fail in life = the more successful you are.

Here's a quote from Michael Jordan, which I think says it all.

"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." - Michael Jordan

 

[trustwomen]

there are enough applicants who work hard from the get-go, and do well all the way through to fill all of the medical school spots three times over. If you guys can't handle being told you need good grades to get into medical school, what can I say. I know some people get in with crappy numbers, and I don't pretend to know why (no one does), the world is not a FAIR place.

I don't think that those students would necessarily make the best doctors. And I think people can handle being told you need good grades - just not "once you have gotten bad grades, you're finished". Different messages.

I don't think I got in unfairly, all things considered - or simply due to "luck"; I worked hard and earned my place. Sorry to hear that you seem to disagree.

 

[CardiacIntensivist]

My advisors have told me not to repeat courses. I got C's in Physics I and II in my freshman year, and even though they are dragging my overall GPA down they suggest that I just take higher-level courses that relate to medical school studies.

This has got to be the funniest thread I've seen in my short history with SDN forums!

Anyway, to the OP: I agree with the above statement both my pre-med advisor and the an adcom have said not to repeat courses. They also added that it is better to take an upper level course of a similar subject and do well than to repeat. I.e. did horribly in Orgo 1? Ace Orgo 2. Did Horribly in orgo 2? Ace an upper level Organic Chemistry i.e. Bioorganic or Physical Organic Chemistry. Though I don't know how much I would personally agree with what they say, they ARE more knowledgable than I am (who wouldn't listen to an Adcom?).

 

[Doglover4fever]

Please note that it was me, and not the OP, that did this. I already copped to being a slacker then. However, there are other reasons that people could have a low GPA. You can't just look at a GPA and say "that's it, buddy, you're done". You certainly would have said that about me as I was going back to school three years ago, with my old 2.5... and you'd have been wrong.

You say I beat the odds... really? I did an entire science degree with a 3.74 GPA (that's what it was at application time, I'll graduate with a 3.75), got a 35S on the MCAT, and have life/work/volunteer experience up the proverbial wazoo. I did beat the odds, inasmuch as only 20% of Canadian applicants get in every year (compared to 50% of US grads), but McGill didn't lower their standards for me. They just counted my recent degree for my GPA, and not my old humanities degrees. This seems like a reasonable approach, no? It's certainly an approach that will get you a better overall quality of students (and future doctors) than just taking the "gunners" who have been studying for this since puberty.

Anyone with stellar stats (3.8 and good MCAT definitely counts) should be able to get in somewhere, unless they applied to "reach" schools only, or - more likely - their PS and interview didn't shine. Arrogance, or thinking that you are better than other people, is a sure way to turn off an interviewer. (And it's one of those character flaws that people never really know they have.)

Ok, just wanted to know if you were accepted at an American medical school. I guess not, so you are not competing with me anyway.

P.S. My interviewers all complemented me, and one even said I was the best applicant she had ever interviewed. So....so much for your brilliant theory.

 

[md953]

Ok, just wanted to know if you were accepted at an American medical school. I guess not, so you are not competing with me anyway.

P.S. My interviewers all complemented me, and one even said I was the best applicant she had ever interviewed. So....so much for your brilliant theory.

And yet you got waitlisted at 496975487347557578895409 schools with nada acceptances.

 

[Doglover4fever]

And yet you got waitlisted at 496975487347557578895409 schools with nada acceptances.

How many acceptances are you planning on getting with a 3.0. You are in no position to judge me, or my performance. Get back to work!

 

[md953]

How many acceptances are you planning on getting with a 3.0. You are in no position to judge me, or my performance. Get back to work!

.. and your in the position to judge me and say I should look at other career options when you got waitlisted at zillion schools and havent had any acceptances?

 

[trustwomen]

Ok, just wanted to know if you were accepted at an American medical school. I guess not, so you are not competing with me anyway.

From what I understand, I would have had a much easier time getting in to an American school!!! Canadian schools are not non-trad-friendly at all; I got turned down by four of them because half of my recent degree was part-time (I was also working full-time, but they didn't care). The acceptance rates are also lower here than for US schools.

Don't get me wrong, I do hope you get off the WL and start med school next year; if you don't, it might be good to contact the schools and find out what happened. Your numbers are certainly good enough. I've read on this forum that you can't always trust what interviewers say...

 

[CardiacIntensivist]

So what would you do if you were in my situation? (When to apply, take MCAT, retake ocehm 1 and 2 (?), more upper level sci classes to prove I can do well (?) .. post bacc? SMP? also what about EC's; I dont have much yet but have ~100 hours of volunteer work in the hospital.. I have the summer free, should I shadow, do research, more volunteer? .. anything else you guys recommend..thanks! I appreciate the help in advance!

I would also like to add that you should try to find some shadowing or volunteer time. Yes things like patient transport and changing patients is patient contact (btw, I'm not assuming you did those things volunteering, but am only using them as examples), however it is scut work and doesn't really help you learn. Find a hospital that is pretty lax on the rules and bother the doctors. If you are shy, now is the best time to come out of your shell. I wouldn't have done anything but scut work during my hospital hours if I hadn't forced myself to ask the doctors if I could shadow them. Some of them were really nice and some of them can go to hell It was hard but I kept myself going by telling myself it was good practice for my third year of medical school. Also, whenever in are in a hospital (patient or volunteer) it is ALWAYS ALWAYS a good thing to suck up to the nurses. If they like you like might let you watch them while they prep a patient or teach you do an EKG etc.

I would also not recommend research unless you REALLY have some interest in it. It can get extremely boring sometimes

 

[bbas]

Ok, just wanted to know if you were accepted at an American medical school. I guess not, so you are not competing with me anyway.

P.S. My interviewers all complemented me, and one even said I was the best applicant she had ever interviewed. So....so much for your brilliant theory.

Best applicant ever, and yet you still got waitlisted. Interesting.

 

[tennisguy896]

Best applicant ever, and yet you still got waitlisted. Interesting.

Seems like all you "compassionate" people aren't very good at playing nice.

 

[md953]

Seems like all you "compassionate" people aren't very good at playing nice.

Go play tennis outside. Its nice out.

 

[LadyJubilee8_18]

Thanks everyone for their responses!

Ofcourse I am not"assuming" I'll do well on MCAT, I surely need to work hard. As for classes, I think it is my study habits. I know I can do better and just studdying consistently (like read chapter before class etc) This would help grasp material well.

I am thinking: I will take some upper level sci classes like (Biochem, Microbiology, Neurobiology, Anatomy, Histology etc) and do well. Again, I am not assuming, I have to go back and realize what I am doing wrong and fix it. So don't get on my case! hah

as for that other poster, I never asked "What are my chances?" but still he is telling me about other career options. Hey, other people have started MUCH worse than me and are now in medical school. So, I, for one, dont buy into his advise.

A postbac program may not be a bad idea. Some medical schools offer guaranteed acceptance upon the completion of their postbac program. It seems like you had many other trials (financial, etc) in undergrad that may have contributed to your academic struggles. A postbac program may be a good way to wipe the slate clean and take some of the edge off the stressful application season (since you'll know you have an acceptance at the end). It may take a bit longer, but I've heard it's a good way to do things if you're unsure about the strength of your app.

 

[md953]

A postbac program may not be a bad idea. Some medical schools offer guaranteed acceptance upon the completion of their postbac program. It seems like you had many other trials (financial, etc) in undergrad that may have contributed to your academic struggles. A postbac program may be a good way to wipe the slate clean and take some of the edge off the stressful application season (since you'll know you have an acceptance at the end). It may take a bit longer, but I've heard it's a good way to do things if you're unsure about the strength of your app.

What are some of those programs? I know of Georgetown SMP but its not a guaranteed program.

 

[tennisguy896]

Go play tennis outside. Its nice out.

Go read a book, it sounds like you need some more substance in your head.

 

[Cinnameg]

What are some of those programs? I know of Georgetown SMP but its not a guaranteed program.

MOST post-bac programs do NOT offer guaranteed acceptance at a medical school at the end.

What the really good post-bac programs DO offer is a way to apply to certain medical schools early, and a way to get accepted to these medical schools before finishing the post-bac program and also before taking the MCAT. For example, if you start at Bryn Mawr in Fall 2006, normally you'd have to finish up a year of classes there, take the MCAT, and then have an application year (they call it a "glide year") from 2007-2008, so you wouldn't actually start medical school until Fall 2008. If you get into one of their linkage medical schools, you can start at the linkage medical school a year earlier, in Fall 2007. Usually it's a conditional acceptace, where you have to get a minimum GPA of something like 3.5 and a minimum MCAT score of something like 26. Mills College is another post-bac program with linkage; it's MD linkage school is Tulane. It also has a linkage to an OD school.

 

[EvoDevo]

Closing this thread because of the disgusting displays of immaturity (and TOS violations) observed.

Doglover4fever - If you don't have anything constructive to say then why not say anything at all? You *did* learn manners from your momma, right? Also, when (and if) you get into medschool, realize that it just means that: you got into med school. You're not a genius, you're not that special, and you're there to serve others. They are not there to serve your ego. Better take it down a notch.

md953 - you too. Don't be an ass.

Both of you are on my watch list. Keep your noses clean or else you'll both get time outs.

Peace,

Evo