What would you do in this situation?

[KO_TV]

I've been fortunate enough to be accepted to several DO schools this cycle, but I retook the new MCAT a while back in September. Previous score was 25, new score is 520.

cGPA is 3.43 and sGPA 3.27 in AMCAS and EC's are decent (research, volunteering, leadership, shadowing), LOR's are very good.

Would you guys try improving app for MD next cycle (would be a first time reapplicant, I only applied this cycle) or go to the accepted DO school? I feel like I'd have a shot at lower tier and in-state MD's (FL resident) but I could be wrong and miss out going to med school.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[WedgeDawg]

I would take DO and run. If you decline your acceptance, you lose your safety net.

In terms of MD, your GPAs are extremely low, your MCAT is fairly high (37 equivalent), but not sky-high, and you still have that 25 hanging around. If you find you can't get into MD, you've lost your shot at DO and you're stuck. There was really no point to retaking your MCAT after you had applied, unless you consider yourself a gambler.

 

[KO_TV]

I would take DO and run. If you decline your acceptance, you lose your safety net.

In terms of MD, your GPAs are extremely low, your MCAT is fairly high (37 equivalent), but not sky-high, and you still have that 25 hanging around. If you find you can't get into MD, you've lost your shot at DO and you're stuck. There was really no point to retaking your MCAT after you had applied, unless you consider yourself a gambler.

Thanks for the reply. I retook because I did apply to some (2) allo schools and wanted to see if I would have had a shot if I gave them updates.

 

[GrapesofRath]

It all comes down to how risk averse you are and how much you believe in your abilities. Only 1% of DO matriculants hit 35+ on the MCAT, not a single one last year hit 40. On the surface I can see why you might want to try to pursue the MD route and not have to face the biases and limitations DO's might face. But you really have to ask yourself what your priorities are and what you think of your abilities. The MD route will probably take two more years and is a risky path.

If MD is the plan an SMP really should be the move here. Long story short, for an SMP to be worth it you need to consistently beat the MS1 class average. Certainly not easy, on one hand your are a 3.3-3.4 student competing against 3.7+ students. On the other hand, the average MCAT of the program you are at will likely be around a 32 and you have a 37.

All in all, even if you do an SMP and do well, there is no guarantee youll still get into an MD program. And while there is some track record of people turning down DO acceptances and later getting one in later cycles(and your 520 will generate interest) it's still a major major gamble to think that a DO school will come biting when you already declined them in the past. And none of this is even talking about your MD chances; even with a good SMP showing you have a 25 on your record and are a reapplicant. Those are two real issues.

All in all, you would need alot of confidence and a really good reason to believe you can do well in an SMP to consider such a move. Me personally, I couldnt justify such a gamble. But I dont blame you for the thought at least popping into your head; I dont think its unreasonable. Ultimately, if you understand the risk you are taking and have solid reasons for doing it and believing you can do well in an SMP, perhaps it might be worthwhile.

 

[Lawpy]

Take the DO acceptance and move on. This would be obviously different had you also received an MD acceptance but that's not the case. And it's not worth giving up DO acceptances to engage in an uncertain route of the MD process as mentioned above.

 

[KO_TV]

It all comes down to how risk averse you are and how much you believe in your abilities. Only 1% of DO matriculants hit 35+ on the MCAT, not a single one last year hit 40. On the surface I can see why you might want to try to pursue the MD route and not have to face the biases and limitations DO's might face. But you really have to ask yourself what your priorities are and what you think of your abilities. The MD route will probably take two more years and is a risky path.

If MD is the plan an SMP really should be the move here. Long story short, for an SMP to be worth it you need to consistently beat the MS1 class average. Certainly not easy, on one hand your are a 3.3-3.4 student competing against 3.7+ students. On the other hand, the average MCAT of the program you are at will likely be around a 32 and you have a 37.

All in all, even if you do an SMP and do well, there is no guarantee youll still get into an MD program. And while there is some track record of people turning down DO acceptances and later getting one in later cycles(and your 520 will generate interest) it's still a major major gamble to think that a DO school will come biting when you already declined them in the past. And none of this is even talking about your MD chances; even with a good SMP showing you have a 25 on your record and are a reapplicant. Those are two real issues.

All in all, you would need alot of confidence and a really good reason to believe you can do well in an SMP to consider such a move. Me personally, I couldnt justify such a gamble. But I dont blame you for the thought at least popping into your head.

Thanks for the reply. My thoughts exactly. I don't know if it's worth the time and money, and if I don't get in I would've wasted a lot of both. I don't know if it's worth mentioning but I didn't apply to the "higher tier DO" schools and it's my understanding that DO schools don't communicate much with each other in regards to admissions of specific students. Would they even know if I was a reapplicant for the cycle if I never even sent them my primary (assuming they don't ask)?

 

[GrapesofRath]

Thanks for the reply. My thoughts exactly. I don't know if it's worth the time and money, and if I don't get in I would've wasted a lot of both. I don't know if it's worth mentioning but I didn't apply to the "higher tier DO" schools and it's my understanding that DO schools don't communicate much with each other in regards to admissions of specific students. Would they even know if I was a reapplicant for the cycle if I never even sent them my primary (assuming they don't ask)?

DO schools from my understanding will know that you are a previously accepted applicant if you apply again. Like I said, there are examples I have seen of people turning down DO acceptances only to get them later on, but that's not anything you can bank on at all. Best bet is to live under the assumption if you turn down a DO acceptance now, you wont get one again and if you are lucky be proven wrong if it comes to it.

If you arent extremely confident in your abilities and your chances of doing well in an SMP program, my thoughts would be to just take the DO acceptance. I get why with such a high MCAT score that only a small handful of DO matriculants have each year you would want to do all you can to pursue the MD route and not have to face the issues DOs still face, but it's just a very risky proposition and it's a lengthy and costly one upwards of 50k.

 

[DrFizition]

Take the DO. Seriously.

If you want the MD for prestige it's kinda silly. Both degrees will be in the same place by the time you graduate from medical school. Waiting another application cycle is not only risky, but also expensive and a waste of a year of your life which could have been used to start your education

 

[AirplaneFruit]

but not sky-high

What would a 525 do for him? How do people handle low GPA high MCAT

 

[WedgeDawg]

What would a 525 do for him? How do people handle low GPA high MCAT

I don't know. Maybe nothing. OP has lost their safety net regardless of their MCAT score.

 

[p0gono]

If you take the DO, the lovely MCAT is not all for naught. It could help for scholarships or maybe even the rare residency that looks.

 

[deleted731525]

Take the DO. Seriously.

If you want the MD for prestige it's kinda silly. Both degrees will be in the same place by the time you graduate from medical school. Waiting another application cycle is not only risky, but also expensive and a waste of a year of your life which could have been used to start your education

I dont think this is true. You could make the argument that DOs will have a harder time matching into specialties now that their previously exclusive residencies will be open to MDs and IMGs. Taking the DO acceptance is still probably the right call and what I would do.

 

[cyang55]

Also, remember it's also about how well you do in med school and how good the school is in preparing you for your future. The MD might open a few more doors for you, but that's if you have the same stats as a DO. Say, you go to a low tiered MD school that won't prepare you as well for boards and you get a low score, or they don't prepare you for your rotations and you can't get a good letter of rec for residency, etc etc. You have to compare the schools on these factors, not so much just the degree they give you. The two letters after your name is just a small part of becoming a successful doctor and can only take you so far. If the DO schools that you got into are good schools with good board scores and match list, then I'd say go for it! Also, your GPA is on the low side, so you are really chancing it if you do want to wait. Especially since GPA the hardest to raise, even if you were to ace a whole year's worth of classes, they will only raise it by a small bit.

 

[235009]

I gotta disagree with the pre-meds who have responded. I think dropping acceptances at these "low tier" DO schools and reapplying with a fantastic new MCAT score is a risk worth taking. You are in a state that has many state med schools and your MCAT score is well above their averages which gives you a good chance despite your low GPA. You would still have DO as a backup...in fact you will likely get into all of the "top" DO schools because they won't be able to pass up on having a student on their roster with that MCAT score. You don't have to do an SMP.

 

[Ho0v-man]

What DO schools did you get into? If you got into pcom, I would just roll with it. If you're going to LUCOM, you should reapply.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Law2Doc]

Thanks for the reply. I retook because I did apply to some (2) allo schools and wanted to see if I would have had a shot if I gave them updates.

I think this really should have been in OPs original post and got lost in the mix. He has ALREADY been rejected by some allo schools with that new MCAT. So the question that would be useful is whether these allo schools were long shots or OPs state schools, because I think that would impact the advice of MeatTornado et al.

My personal view is you have a mediocre gpa and your 25 MCAT is always going to be on your transcript. And now you are a reapplicant to boot, expected to show substantial improvement for any subsequent cycle to get similar consideration (which really is a higher hurdle). So either get started at DO now or do something academic or resume building to take another shot at your allo state school, and similarly ranked places. Don't get deluded into thinking the high MCAT retake will get you into the long shots the second time around. Your odds don't improve with missteps.

 

[Nietzschelover]

I gotta disagree with the pre-meds who have responded. I think dropping acceptances at these "low tier" DO schools and reapplying with a fantastic new MCAT score is a risk worth taking. You are in a state that has many state med schools and your MCAT score is well above their averages which gives you a good chance despite your low GPA. You would still have DO as a backup...in fact you will likely get into all of the "top" DO schools because they won't be able to pass up on having a student on their roster with that MCAT score. You don't have to do an SMP.

I gotta agree here. Each case has to be looked at on individual basis. What is generally a rule of thumb or good advice doesn't necessarily apply in individual cases.

It does seem odd that the OP forged ahead with applying mostly DO and in the middle of that took another crack at the MCAT which has caused pause (and btw OP, did you study for the re-take or just take a flyer on a re-take with very surprising results, and if you did spend a lot of time studying why didn't you wait on applying until you could assess where you were at?). Obviously, especially with the crowd here, you are going to get blasted for poor planning/judgment (taking MCAT first time unprepared, applying while still planning to take another MCAT too late in the cycle, etc, etc). Not saying the critiques will be wrong, but I think those who "do everything right" are sometimes given too much credit (i.e. everything fell right for them, like in terms of good MCAT the first try, but not necessarily because his/her judgment was so impeccable as a 20 year old).

At any rate, I can't imagine you would be shut out at all DOs on a second go round, and the chance for MD is perhaps worth the risk. Certainly worth thinking about when the decision could impact the next 35-40 years of a career.

Also curious about other ways besides SMP to improve GPA, like a year (or two) in bioethics, biomedical engineering, public health, etc.

 

[GrapesofRath]

I gotta disagree with the pre-meds who have responded. I think dropping acceptances at these "low tier" DO schools and reapplying with a fantastic new MCAT score is a risk worth taking. You are in a state that has many state med schools and your MCAT score is well above their averages which gives you a good chance despite your low GPA. You would still have DO as a backup...in fact you will likely get into all of the "top" DO schools because they won't be able to pass up on having a student on their roster with that MCAT score. You don't have to do an SMP.

I dont necessairly completely disagree with this but there a couple things to think about here

a) There's no way anybody can say with any certainty somebody who has already turned down DO acceptances can just waltz their way into all the top DO schools and that they magically wont be able to pass up a student with that MCAT. Yes, there are examples of previous people on here getting into DO schools after turning down acceptances from them in previous cycles. There are also examples if you go through of people struggling to generate interest from DO schools again after turning down acceptances from them. It's a gamble to do what the OP is proposing. You cant just assume DO's will 100% be there as your backup if this plan doesnt work. It's definitely not some 100% guarantee.

b) Many schools and evaluators average multiple MCAT scores regardless of what lip service they will tell you in public. There's a difference between getting a 520 on the first attempt and getting a 25 the first time around and needing a second attempt to hit that score. For evaulators that average multiple MCAT scores OP is looking at a 31 equivalent not a 37. Even for those who dont, the 25 isnt just getting ignored.

c) OP is also a reapplicant at some of the programs in their states. That puts them at a disadvantage. And sure Fl has many state schools but only 20% of their applicants matriculate IS which is a pretty below average number. The reason is there are just way way too many Fl applicants for those schools which are mostly relatively small. We're not talking about West Virginia or something here; Fl isnt some extremely lucky state to be in for admission.

d) Historically somebody with OPs stats gets into medical school about 50% of the time. That's not close to any guarantee. And a number of those 50% accepted will have done post-baccs/SMPs to enhance their academics. Hence when you consider OP has multiple MCAT Scores, is a reapplicant, and the safety net of DOs could be hampered by turning down multiple DO acceptances, they need to do something significant to put them over the top. Hence why I mentioned I would do an SMP in this case if MD is the goal.

I will say the more I have thought about it the more consideration I would give to turning down the DO acceptances than I did last night. But it's still a real gamble and I'd still be on the fence about doing it.

 

[GrapesofRath]

x

 

[235009]

Also curious about other ways besides SMP to improve GPA, like a year (or two) in bioethics, biomedical engineering, public health, etc.

In general these masters programs don't count in improving your GPA since the GPA gets calculated separately

 

[Nietzschelover]

I guess the way I'm looking at it is at least try to get into a top DO school. Yes, there is risk in terms of chances that MD might not work out, but there seems to be protection in place unless all of the top DOs are going to shut him out because of turning down a DO acceptance. The OP does have a very clear-cut reason, though, for explaining a re-application....the unanticipated very high MCAT.

 

[Nietzschelover]

In general these masters programs don't count in improving your GPA since the GPA gets calculated separately

So does that mean you would get no "academic" or EC value out of year of bioethics or a MPH?

 

[235009]

I guess the way I'm looking at it is at least try to get into a top DO school. Yes, there is risk in terms of chances that MD might not work out, but there seems to be protection in place unless all of the top DOs are going to shut him out because of turning down a DO acceptance. The OP does have a very clear-cut reason, though, for explaining a re-application....the unanticipated very high MCAT.

Yea, those "top" DO schools would be happy to hear an explanation that you turned down the acceptances once you had the better MCAT score because you wanted a shot at their schools which are better and provide more opportunities.

So does that mean you would get no "academic" or EC value out of year of bioethics or a MPH?

but ECs are not what's deficient here...it was suggested as a way to make up for a poor GPA

 

[Nietzschelover]

Yea, those "top" DO schools would be happy to hear an explanation that you turned down the acceptances once you had the better MCAT score because you wanted a shot at their schools which are better and provide more opportunities.



but ECs are not what's deficient here...it was suggested as a way to make up for a poor GPA

No, I meant that even if you can't directly impact the official GPA, can you partly compensate for a lower GPA by still showing you have strong academic ability in other ways.

 

[Law2Doc]

... The OP does have a very clear-cut reason, though, for explaining a re-application....the unanticipated very high MCAT.

That's not a clear cut reason that will look reasonable to schools. It's like dumping your prom date because you suddenly realize you might have a shot with a cheerleader.

 

[Nietzschelover]

Another issue might be what the OP is thinking long-term.....primary care, pediatrics, psychiatry....or a more competitive specialty. FWIW, I've heard that there are DO psychiatrists who have outstanding reputations and who do extremely well. In fact, a psychiatrist with Rochester, Harvard-affiliated residency, and NYU fellowship credentials told me that the top psychiatry resident in his residency was a DO.

 

[Law2Doc]

No, I meant that even if you can't directly impact the official GPA, can you partly compensate for a lower GPA by still showing you have strong academic ability in other ways.

Advanced degrees are mostly regarded like ECs. They won't have a big impact in OPs case. Might make him look less focused unless he has a strong career reason. But it might put some time between application cycles, which I think helps a bit in justifying withdrawing applications.

 

[Nietzschelover]

That's not a clear cut reason that will look reasonable to schools. It's like dumping your prom date because you suddenly realize you might have a shot with a cheerleader.

Hahahahaha. And who among us wouldn't do that?

 

[Law2Doc]

Hahahahaha. And who among us wouldn't do that?

Yes, but 80s sitcoms have taught us that it never works out. Bird in the hand.

 

[KO_TV]

I think this really should have been in OPs original post and got lost in the mix. He has ALREADY been rejected by some allo schools with that new MCAT. So the question that would be useful is whether these allo schools were long shots or OPs state schools, because I think that would impact the advice of MeatTornado et al.

My personal view is you have a mediocre gpa and your 25 MCAT is always going to be on your transcript. And now you are a reapplicant to boot, expected to show substantial improvement for any subsequent cycle to get similar consideration (which really is a higher hurdle). So either get started at DO now or do something academic or resume building to take another shot at your allo state school, and similarly ranked places. Don't get deluded into thinking the high MCAT retake will get you into the long shots the second time around. Your odds don't improve with missteps.

Yeah the schools I applied to were very far reaches, but I figured why not at the time, since I was planning to give updates. One was my FL undergrad institution and another was in my home state which I was born. Both are pretty up there in terms of stats and research. I finally figured out the best way for myself to study so I retook and that was the result. I'm not deluded into thinking a high mcat will make up for everything which is why I originally asked if I should take time off to improve my app (includes SMP, more research, more clinical involvement, etc). Thank you for the input though, as I see you suggested the same thing

 

[KO_TV]

What DO schools did you get into? If you got into pcom, I would just roll with it. If you're going to LUCOM, you should reapply.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Of the ones worth mentioning, Touro Nevada, PCOM-Ga, Lecom-SH. I got into many others as well but they weren't as established so those are the ones I'm choosing between as of now

 

[LizzyM]

Go DO. If anyone EVER gives you any sh *t about being a DO, just nonchalantly say, "My MCAT was 520 but I decided to go to DO school. I'm happy with my decision." Watch this happen

 

[Lawpy]

Go DO. If anyone EVER gives you any sh *t about being a DO, just nonchalantly say, "My MCAT was 520 but I decided to go to DO school. I'm happy with my decision." Watch this happen

LizzyM telling like it is.

 

[KO_TV]

Thanks for all the replies, my concerns mostly arose from future matching and career limitations. If there were truly equal opportunities in both I wouldn't even have posted this question. If I really wanted the "prestige" that supposedly comes with the MD degree, I would have gone Caribbean. That being said, I think I'll take the majority advice and start med school in the fall. I appreciate the feedback you all gave!

 

[Ho0v-man]

Of the ones worth mentioning, Touro Nevada, PCOM-Ga, Lecom-SH. I got into many others as well but they weren't as established so those are the ones I'm choosing between as of now

Then I think you're good imo. Good luck in the fall!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[el_duderino]

If you're hot **** you'll still be hot **** at a DO school, and if you're not, you still won't be at an MD school.

Declining the DO acceptances would be insane.

 

[Australopithekus]

If you really want the MD, you could ask your DO schools if they would let you defer for a year, then apply to MD schools this coming cycle. It would be rather Machiavellian, but wiser than dumping the DO acceptances.

 

[GrapesofRath]

If you really want the MD, you could ask your DO schools if they would let you defer for a year, then apply to MD schools this coming cycle. It would be rather Machiavellian, but wiser than dumping the DO acceptances.

I've never heard of a situation where a school will agree to a one year deferral without the stipulation that you are not allow to apply anywhere else during that year.

If you break that contract here is what could happen

a) Youll never get into a DO school again. Any school that sees this kind of unethical behavior from an applicant will report it to the DO application system and all schools will know about this in future cycles. This isnt the type of blemish you are likely to overcome.

b) If you get into an MD school doing this you would basically have to lie to the DO school and say something like "I decided medicine isnt for me, I'm not going to medical school". If you tell the DO school you are breaking their contract to go to an MD school, theyll likely reach out to that MD school. If the MD school finds out you did something like this, I cant imagine it going favorably at all. So basically you are going to have to lie to the DO school and hoping they never find out you went to an MD school instead. You are just playing with fire doing something like that; at any moment if a DO school finds out they could contact that MD School about what you did and that school could expel you for something like this(schools have expelled people in the past for lying about things on their application and this is beyond that really). That's not the type of risk I would ever encourage anybody to take.

 

[Australopithekus]

I've never heard of a situation where a school will agree to a one year deferral without the stipulation that you are not allow to apply anywhere else during that year.

If you break that contract here is what could happen

a) Youll never get into a DO school again. Any school that sees this kind of unethical behavior from an applicant will report it to the DO application system and all schools will know about this in future cycles. This isnt the type of blemish you are likely to overcome.

b) If you get into an MD school doing this you would basically have to lie to the DO school and say something like "I decided medicine isnt for me, I'm not going to medical school". If you tell the DO school you are breaking their contract to go to an MD school, theyll likely reach out to that MD school. If the MD school finds out you did something like this, I cant imagine it going favorably at all. So basically you are going to have to lie to the DO school and hoping they never find out you went to an MD school instead. You are just playing with fire doing something like that; at any moment if a DO school finds out they could contact that MD School about what you did and that school could expel you for something like this(schools have expelled people in the past for lying about things on their application and this is beyond that really). That's not the type of risk I would ever encourage anybody to take.

You might be right about that stipulation; I don't know. I do know someone who did it (successfully), though.

 

[GrapesofRath]

You might be right about that stipulation; I don't know. I do know someone who did it (successfully), though.

I think DrMidLife actually went down a somewhat similar path. Got into a DO school in 2007, but then had some really unforseen circumstances pop up in her life and she had to defer for a year. She ended up during that year of deferal deciding she wanted to go after the MD so she told the DO school she wont be attending and then ended up doing an MD SMP and getting into an MD school in 2011.

That was a different circumstance though in the sense that she didnt apply anywhere during that year of deferral and only went after the MD after turning down the DO, not saying "Im going to go after the MD behind their back then use this DO schools acceptance if things dont work out". She basically went all in, MD or bust which is what the OP would have to do. You cant just keep the DO acceptance in your back pocket for later if you want to go for the MD; you have to drop it now for reasons I mentioned above.

 

[Goro]

As my mother would say, "God should bless you!"

Go DO. If anyone EVER gives you any sh *t about being a DO, just nonchalantly say, "My MCAT was 520 but I decided to go to DO school. I'm happy with my decision." Watch this happen

 

[Goro]

I am SO stealing this!!!

That's not a clear cut reason that will look reasonable to schools. It's like dumping your prom date because you suddenly realize you might have a shot with a cheerleader.

 

[Nietzschelover]

SDN answer -- "Make sure you plan ahead and are really ready so you get the cheerleader to be your prom date"

 

[el_duderino]

SDN answer -- "Make sure you plan ahead and are really ready so you get the cheerleader to be your prom date"

Reality: end up staying home because you blew off the girl who really liked you, and the cheerleader went with the quarterback.

 

[Nietzschelover]

Reality: end up staying home because you blew off the girl who really liked you, and the cheerleader went with the quarterback.

Isn't that what always happens?

 

[Ho0v-man]

SDN answer -- "Make sure you plan ahead and are really ready so you get the cheerleader to be your prom date"

Also, you're going to have to make yourself really competitive and do really well on your boards to get the prom date to do the stuff you want. Even then, it'll probably only be in the back of a "low tier" 1998 Honda civic.

But you don't have to try nearly as hard to get the cheerleader to do all of that stuff and more in the back of a "top-tier" 2017 BMW if you go MD!

It's so unfair that DOs have to work so hard to get laid on prom night!

Break that glass ceiling, OP! Go home with your prom date, the cheerleader, and the hot Spanish teacher! Where'd the Spanish teacher come from? I don't know. This metaphor has really gotten out of hand!

What was this thread about again?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edit: the hot Spanish teacher is IMG option bc it's such an enticing and exotic offer at first, but you know there's no future in it. Now it all makes sense.

 

[prehealthadvisor55]

At about half of the FL MD schools, you'll be auto rejected based on GPA alone, even with a great MCAT. I'd stick with DO.

 

[21Rush12]

So it's:
Choice A - "become a doctor!"

or

Choice B - "become a doctor?"

I think I would pick A if it were my decision to make.