what would you do?

[scrubsaresexy]

I'm facing this sort of ethical dilemma right now, and I'm to the point where I'm pretty upset about it because I just don't know what to do.

A final for one of my science classes (ie: important to get a good grade in) was scheduled on the day of my professor's daughter's First Communion, so he decided that instead of missing that, he would give us two times a day for the whole week of finals when we could stop by, pick up a test, go take it and return it in a specified period of time. He said nothing about it being open book or a take-home test, and he specifically said that he tried take-home tests once, and it essentially turning into a **** show.

Someone in my class mentioned to me that he was going to take his exam with a bunch of other people in the class, and with the help of someone who is really good at this subject and took the class a few years ago.

Not only is this person a good friend of mine and my lab partner, but he is also failing the class and needs to do well on this exam to pass the class. He is also switching is major from bio to psych, so its not like this is important to him anymore; he just doesn't want that F on his transcripts.

The question is...do I turn him in? I'm taking my exam tomorrow and I really need to do well on it to counteract one bad exam grade. I don't know if the exam will be curved or not; I don't think it is, but I'm sure that my prof will take into account the class average when he does final grades. I tried to find out whether I was obligated to turn him in based on my school's academic dishonesty policy, and I couldn't find anything concrete.

What would you do?

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[armybound]

I tell you what I'd do, man...


two chicks at the same time.

I'd personally never say anything because I avoid confrontation like it's the plague. Ideally you'd want to bring it to the professor's attention and let them know which students may have taken outside help.

 

[pennybridge]

ronald mcdonald

 

[Wanna_B_Scutty]

If I were you, I'd send the following e-mail. It doesn't name names, but it gets the point across loud and clear, while giving the Prof info I am sure he would appreciate having:

-----
Dear Prof X,

Writing this e-mail to you is somewhat uncomfortable for me. However, it has come to my attention that at least one individual who will be taking your test tomorrow is planning to cheat. As such, I wanted to warn you that perhaps enlisting a proctor might be a good idea.

I hope you can understand my discomfort with this situation, as well as my desire for discretion. Since the information I have is only hearsay, I would prefer not to divulge the individual's name at this time. Please contact me with any questions you might have.

Sincerely,
Scrubs

 

[Doc Henry]

I don't generally give a damn if someone else wants to cheat...It would totally suck if it hurt you because it increased the average but its not my style to turn people in. I don't really see how you could get in trouble for not turning them in either; how could anyone prove that you knew?

So I wouldn't turn them in, but I'm not you...so take it with a grain of salt

I'm sure if I said that in my med school interview it wouldn't go over well...but oh well

 

[Vvandenn]

I wouldn't turn him in. But doing that just isn't my bag, baby~

 

[jochi1543]

I would do this:

"dear Professor,
It recently came to my attention that several individuals in our class have decided to cooperate on their final exams by writing them together and have invited me to join. However, I first wanted to clarify whether working in groups was permitted."

Result:
1) you are safe (didn't name any people....very responsible and honest by asking whether it was allowed or not)
2) you will either get the ok to work with other people yourself OR the prof will take the necessary measures to make sure people don't do it. Either way, your friend won't be cheating, but s/he won't get in trouble for it. If the prof does decide that group work is cheating and pesters you for your friend's name, simply tell him that you cannot name the person for ethical reasons and thus made sure the prof was made aware of the act of potential cheating BEFORE it occured. Play stupid, basically.

 

[Wanna_B_Scutty]

I would do this:

"dear Professor,
It recently came to my attention that several individuals in our class have decided to cooperate on their final exams by writing them together and have invited me to join. However, I first wanted to clarify whether working in groups was permitted."

Result:
1) you are safe (didn't name any people....very responsible and honest by asking whether it was allowed or not)
2) you will either get the ok to work with other people yourself OR the prof will take the necessary measures to make sure people don't do it. Either way, your friend won't be cheating, but s/he won't get in trouble for it. If the prof does decide that group work is cheating and pesters you for your friend's name, simply tell him that you cannot name the person for ethical reasons and thus made sure the prof was made aware of the act of potential cheating BEFORE it occured. Play stupid, basically.

Seconded. This one is better than mine.

 

[Bacchus]

Follow your school's handbook. It will work out in the end. Your school will protect your confidentiality.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm facing this sort of ethical dilemma right now, and I'm to the point where I'm pretty upset about it because I just don't know what to do.

A final for one of my science classes (ie: important to get a good grade in) was scheduled on the day of my professor's daughter's First Communion, so he decided that instead of missing that, he would give us two times a day for the whole week of finals when we could stop by, pick up a test, go take it and return it in a specified period of time. He said nothing about it being open book or a take-home test, and he specifically said that he tried take-home tests once, and it essentially turning into a **** show.

Someone in my class mentioned to me that he was going to take his exam with a bunch of other people in the class, and with the help of someone who is really good at this subject and took the class a few years ago.

Not only is this person a good friend of mine and my lab partner, but he is also failing the class and needs to do well on this exam to pass the class. He is also switching is major from bio to psych, so its not like this is important to him anymore; he just doesn't want that F on his transcripts.

The question is...do I turn him in? I'm taking my exam tomorrow and I really need to do well on it to counteract one bad exam grade. I don't know if the exam will be curved or not; I don't think it is, but I'm sure that my prof will take into account the class average when he does final grades. I tried to find out whether I was obligated to turn him in based on my school's academic dishonesty policy, and I couldn't find anything concrete.

What would you do?

You are probably violating your school's honor code if you don't turn him in (very few allow you to ignore cheating). No ethical dilemma here --cheating is not acceptable under any academic code of conduct. You are presumably hoping to enter a self policing profession that holds itself to the highest ethical standards. The fact that you felt the need to play up that the dude is failing and not a bio major (all irrelevant facts) makes us see you already know it is wrong and are trying vainly to justify it to yourself. I agree with pennybridge that you need to find your balls but disagree with his/her conclusion. Someone with balls would turn the cheater in and let those cards fall where they may.

 

[postbacker]

You might ask your buddy if he is worried that he is cheating...in other words, warn him that you think he is cheating...his answer might ease your conscience.

Bottom line: unless your school has a really lax honor code, your knowledge of this cheating implicates you unless you report it. At my school, you would be subject to expulsion, too. (and imagine the case where you say nothing about and then YOU get dragged into an honor trial where you will have to reveal under oath that indeed you knew about it and did nothing to alert officials).

 

[Wanna_B_Scutty]

You are probably violating your school's honor code if you don't turn him in (very few allow you to ignore cheating). No ethical dilemma here --cheating is not acceptable under any academic code of conduct. You are presumably hoping to enter a self policing profession that holds itself to the highest ethical standards. The fact that you felt the need to play up that the dude is failing and not a bio major (all irrelevant facts) makes us see you already know it is wrong and are trying vainly to justify it to yourself. I agree with pennybridge that you need to find your balls but disagree with his/her conclusion. Someone with balls would turn the cheater in and let those cards fall where they may.

Just curious, Law2Doc:

Do you think scrubs is morally and/or ethically required to name this individual? Or would e-mails like the ones jochi and I suggested be adequate? Why?

 

[Green Pirate]

leave people to handle their own affairs unless it directly affects you (i.e. if the test is on a curve and their high scores could deflate yours).

 

[Law2Doc]

Just curious, L2D:

Do you think scrubs is morally and/or ethically required to name this individual? Or would the e-mail jochi be adequate? Why or why not?

A heads up in advance without naming names so that the prof could remedy the problem would be reasonable. But if all the tests are in, you might have to go further to satisfy your obligations.

 

[Law2Doc]

leave people to handle their own affairs unless it directly affects you (i.e. if the test is on a curve and their high scores could deflate yours).

Whether it affects you personally has never been the standard for ethical obligations. Some would argue the duty is greater if it's someone else getting affected.

 

[postbacker]

I am pretty shocked by some of the responses to this thread telling the OP to mind his own business, etc.

Any of you read the newspaper today - cheating scandal nets 34 MBA students at Duke?

Pretty sad...

 

[Green Pirate]

Whether it affects you personally has never been the standard for ethical obligations. Some would argue the duty is greater if it's someone else getting affected.

you're right. but, in this particular case, I would feel very little moral obligation to take action. if there is no curve, the only people being affected are the cheaters, and they will learn to be responsible for their actions sooner or later.

 

[Green Pirate]

I am pretty shocked by some of the responses to this thread telling the OP to mind his own business, etc.

Any of you read the newspaper today - cheating scandal nets 34 MBA students at Duke?

Pretty sad...

so what's your point? People cheat around us everyday, are we all supposed to be policemen all of a sudden?

 

[Wanna_B_Scutty]

I am pretty shocked by some of the responses to this thread telling the OP to mind his own business, etc.

Any of you read the newspaper today - cheating scandal nets 34 MBA students at Duke?

Pretty sad...

Methinks it's an inevitable outgrowth of moral relativism.

In a world in which the only morally wrong thing you can do is to "judge others," no one will see the necessity of stepping up.

 

[slipperyslope]

wow i'm on the "don't turn anyone in" side, but for a very different reason. the professor is not an idiot, right? because i am sure he knows that letting students take the test unattended and in a location of their choosing is going to result in an open-book, open-note, open-classmate test. if he didn't want that, then he would've had a TA proctor the exam at the various times. maybe he previously said he didn't like take-home-tests, but his scheduling conflict has turned this into a last resort. does no one else think this?

 

[pennybridge]

ronald mcdonald

 

[Law2Doc]

so what's your point? People cheat around us everyday, are we all supposed to be policemen all of a sudden?

If you are on the path to a profession which holds itself to certain high ethical expectations the answer is yes. And if you are under an honor code which requires such (as is the case in many schools) the answer is again yes. And since when did a policeman become such a bad thing?

 

[Wanna_B_Scutty]

wow i'm on the "don't turn anyone in" side, but for a very different reason. the professor is not an idiot, right? because i am sure he knows that letting students take the test unattended and in a location of their choosing is going to result in an open-book, open-note, open-classmate test. if he didn't want that, then he would've had a TA proctor the exam at the various times. maybe he previously said he didn't like take-home-tests, but his scheduling conflict has turned this into a last resort. does no one else think this?

Perhaps the Professor is an older man and comes from a different time.

This may shock you, but cheating was truly not always as rampant as it is now. While I'm sure that some of the people have always cheated, there existed not too long ago a true sense of honor. At least, that's what my father and grandfather tell me. As for me, I have only very rarely seen it in my time.

 

[Dookter]

I am not the type of person to turn people in for anything...it's just not me. But lately I have started to change my mind. In my medical school class we have tons of little $hIt$ who skip like every single test to study extra, we have people that cheat, etc. We have people that have gone entire blocks without taking a single test on time. I am so freaking sick of it that I want to puke. I have never encountered this type of thing before in my life. So it's up to you on what to do....but realize that these people keep coming back to annoy the hell out of you over and over and over in the future unless someone stops them.

 

[postbacker]

wow i'm on the "don't turn anyone in" side, but for a very different reason. the professor is not an idiot, right? because i am sure he knows that letting students take the test unattended and in a location of their choosing is going to result in an open-book, open-note, open-classmate test. if he didn't want that, then he would've had a TA proctor the exam at the various times. maybe he previously said he didn't like take-home-tests, but his scheduling conflict has turned this into a last resort. does no one else think this?

But this is why schools have honor codes, to place the burden on each and every student to conduct himself honorably...

Jeez, I am really, honestly, disgusted by the rationalizing of cheating that the majority of the people on this thread espouse.

 

[da8s0859q]

I wouldn't snitch on 'em. I think it's questionable to make an ostensibly solo project a group endeavor, but I would not rat them out.

And I'm not justifying cheating - I'm just saying that I will not be the one to run to faculty about it.

 

[pennybridge]

ronald mcdonald

 

[Wanna_B_Scutty]

I wouldn't snitch on 'em. I think it's questionable to make an ostensibly solo project a group endeavor, but I would not rat them out.

And I'm not justifying cheating - I'm just saying that I will not be the one to run to faculty about it.

If you don't mind me asking, exi, why not?

 

[pcguy2]

If you are on the path to a profession which holds itself to certain high ethical expectations the answer is yes. And if you are under an honor code which requires such (as is the case in many schools) the answer is again yes. And since when did a policeman become such a bad thing?

Wow. Law2Doc is the only honorable one here aparently...

 

[postbacker]

you're using the wrong word.

nobody is rationalizing cheating. Everyone here agrees it is universally wrong. What you're seeing here is a combination of two things: apathy and relativism.

get it right

Oh, I used the right word.

Your views on this thread disgust me.

 

[Law2Doc]

you're using the wrong word.

nobody is rationalizing cheating.

Disagree. The OP made a point as to how this person was already failing, no longer a bio major, and that the prof wasn't explicit in instructions. All these things suggest to me a good amount of trying to rationalize away the problem.

 

[Wanna_B_Scutty]

Oh, I used the right word.

Your views on this thread disgust me.

 

[scrubsaresexy]

Let's add to the fun here. In the code of conduct, the very first bulleted point under cheating is:

"Assisting another student or receiving assistance from anyone to complete quizzes, tests, examinations, or other assignments without the consent of the instructor."

Also, it says explicitly in the syllabus, which I just found, that "Students may not work with others on exams."

 

[Law2Doc]

Let's add to the fun here. In the code of conduct, the very first bulleted point under cheating is:

"Assisting another student or receiving assistance from anyone to complete quizzes, tests, examinations, or other assignments without the consent of the instructor."

Also, it says explicitly in the syllabus, which I just found, that "Students may not work with others on exams."

Sounds pretty cut and dry to me. Time to sharpen the guillotine.

 

[scrubsaresexy]

Additionally, I've already made my decision of what to do, its one that I feel very comfortable with and am kind of wondering why I had to ask people's opinions in the first place. In the meantime, I'm enjoying this debate immensely because people are bringing up a lot of interesting points.

 

[pennybridge]

ronald mcdonald

 

[pcguy2]

Off with their heads! Lower the curve!

 

[pennybridge]

ronald mcdonald.

 

[Bartelby]

undo your belt, drop your pants, get out that magnifying glass and don't stop searching down there until you find YOUR BALLS. (and if you're a girl, they'll be figurative balls)

take your damn test and let the cards fall as they may. Unless other people are actively killing you, your family, or your friends, very little of what they do actually affects your life. Grow up.

Yeah, I only hope more people can find the BALLS to sit by while others cheat. If everyone could man up and avoid confrontation at all costs, what a great world this would be.

Honestly, I have known of several cheaters (sometimes, it's pretty egregious). I have never reported any of them. I hate cheating, I never do it myself, I go to a school with a single sanction honor policy, and I am technically honor bound to report any cheating I observe. I think reporting the person is the right thing to do, but reporting them would really take balls.

 

[degoo_]

The prof isn't stupid. Giving out such an exam without ensuring the proper test taking setting is his/her mistake and he/she must know what would happen in such a situation. The question of ratting people out shouldn't even arise.
Email him/her like Jochi and others suggested and go from there.

Heck, it seems to me the prof should also be in hot water for administering a final in such a fashion. Why not just go to the dean or the ombudsperson and rat the prof and the students out?

 

[Green Pirate]

If you are on the path to a profession which holds itself to certain high ethical expectations the answer is yes. And if you are under an honor code which requires such (as is the case in many schools) the answer is again yes. And since when did a policeman become such a bad thing?

nothing is wrong with being a policeman. We need the policemen to enforce the code for us... all I'm saying is that I do not feel that policeman is my role. My honor code requires me to be accountable for my actions--that I will not give or receive illicit assistance on exams and whatnot. I think I'm holding to that by being responsible for my actions.

And how does this have to do with going into medicine? Doctors are required to make ethical decisions (sometimes), but that's because it's their responsibility. They are responsible for their patients, etc. I am not responsible for the cheaters who try to break the code, I have no duty to see that they receive a fair education. It would be nice if I did see to it that they followed the code, and maybe I would be a nicer person if I turned them in because it would help them in the long run. But I'm not morally obliated to be a nice person, and it would not be wrong of me to just focus on my own performance.

 

[Law2Doc]

ok, the OP is rationalizing cheating for this "friend" of his/hers

I'm not. I just could care less what other people do with their lives.


for all you people who are so "disgusted" I want to see your cell phone bill where you call Highway Patrol every time you see someone speeding on the freeway, how many MIP assists you have by calling the cops when you see someone under 21 drinking, and all kinds of other stuff you do to fuel your moral superiority complex.

If you wanted to be a police officer, it's not too late to get out of medicine. Doctors, of all people, are not the police.

Ah but there's a difference. The law is explicit that you don't have a duty to get involved. Schools' honor codes generally impose the opposite duty - you are supposed to report academic dishonesty.

Being a member of a profession imposes duties of its own as well; you may find yourself in positions where you have to blow the whistle on people in medicine, and in that respect be serving a policeman-like function.

 

[da8s0859q]

If you don't mind me asking, exi, why not?

Not at all. It's sort of a personal thing, really - I've always been the one that will focus on what I can do for my own performance, as well as trying to help my own friends in whatever way(s) I can (short of cheating, anyway). At the same time, I have never been one that felt the motivation to tell on others that wanted to resort to less-than-ethical methods to do things in school.

When it comes to ethical conflicts regarding other, arguably more acutely important issues (quality of life while in practice, well-being of my friends, significant financial situations, etc.), things are a bit different. But as regards a test, while I may understand the reasoning for doing so, I just do not feel incredibly compelled to snitch.

 

[Law2Doc]

And how does this have to do with going into medicine? Doctors are required to make ethical decisions (sometimes), but that's because it's their responsibility. They are responsible for their patients, etc. I am not responsible for the cheaters who try to break the code, I have no duty to see that they receive a fair education.

In many schools you are obligated by the honor code to turn in cheaters. Similarly as a professional you will be obligated by the code of your profession and perhaps the terms of your employment to turn in certain unethical conduct (drug and alcohol problems, patient mistreatment, insurance fraud, etc). Failure to meet your obligations at the academic level doesn't reflect highly on your ability to meet your obligations at the next level either. You are either an ethical person who satisfies his obligations or you aren't.

 

[youngnflyy]

I personally wouldn't snitch. I've seen scores of people cheat throughout college, and previously in highschool. The way I see it, I'm in school to garner an education for myself, what other people choose to do is their business. Further more, how could anyone bring themselves to snitch on a friend? What I would do would be to ask my friend if he would like me to help him prepare for the test so that he wouldn't have to resort to cheating. In a world in which a grade is all high and mighty, I cannot fault anyone for doing what they deem to be necessary to pass. The time spent contemplating this question would be better spent studying for the exam in an attempt to do your personal best.

 

[pcguy2]

It would be nice if I did see to it that they followed the code, and maybe I would be a nicer person if I turned them in because it would help them in the long run. But I'm not morally obliated to be a nice person, and it would not be wrong of me to just focus on my own performance.

Ah but there's a difference. The law is explicit that you don't have a duty to get involved. Schools' honor codes generally impose the opposite duty - you are supposed to report academic dishonesty.

Being a member of a profession imposes duties of its own as well; you may find yourself in positions where you have to blow the whistle on people in medicine, and in that respect be serving a policeman-like function.

Like Law2Doc said, you do have an obligation to report according to the honor code.

 

[Wanna_B_Scutty]

ok, the OP is rationalizing cheating for this "friend" of his/hers

I'm not. I just could care less what other people do with their lives.


for all you people who are so "disgusted" I want to see your cell phone bill where you call Highway Patrol every time you see someone speeding on the freeway, how many MIP assists you have by calling the cops when you see someone under 21 drinking, and all kinds of other stuff you do to fuel your moral superiority complex.

If you wanted to be a police officer, it's not too late to get out of medicine. Doctors, of all people, are not the police.

Actually, I have called the cops twice while driving: once, when I saw someone grossly speeding, and once when I saw someone weaving in a dangerous pattern.

I've never called the cops when I've seen people < 21 drinking moderately, because they're only potentially hurting their own futures. However, I do intervene when I see people drinking enough to make themselves sick. Likewise, I am (in)famous for taking away people's car keys after they've had a few. So yeah, I'm kind of like the Mom at parties... but if I don't step up, then who will?

So no, I'm not the police. But as a member of society who benefits from all the protections that our social institution gives us, I view it as a reciprocal resposibility to protect other members of our society from harm.

 

[Green Pirate]

In many schools you are obligated by the honor code to turn in cheaters. Similarly as a professional you will be obligated by the code of your profession and perhaps the terms of your employment to turn in certain unethical conduct (drug and alcohol problems, patient mistreatment, insurance fraud, etc). Failure to meet your obligations at the academic level doesn't reflect highly on your ability to meet your obligations at the next level either. You are either an ethical person who satisfies his obligations or you aren't.

I see. I guess I haven't read my school's honor code carefully enough then.

in that case, you're right, it would be wrong to not report the violation.

 

[pennybridge]

ronald mcdonald

 

[pennybridge]

ronald mcdonald