What you REALLY learned by doing research

[Rockhouse]

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I'm not talking about anything science specific at all. So I'll start with my own example. I learned that PhD students often times don't know $#!t, but love to flaunt their supposed knowledge in front of undergraduates. However, when pressed to the issue in front of mentors, they mumble and provide a lot of excuses. I'm not going to lie, this is partly a way for me to b!tch about a PhD student I work with... because recently she informed me that liquid nitrogen is really just dry ice with some other things mixed in it. I mean seriously, how do some of these people get accepted into graduate programs?

 

[jackbauer]

i learned mostly that i don't want to go into research. which was a very useful thing to learn, because otherwise i might have applied md-phd and that would have been a huge mistake. but i also now have far more respect for the people who are doing research, because it is hard and yet so important. people spend their lives figuring out the smallest details with little recognition and much difficulty getting grants, and somewhere down the line it is probably going to help find a cure for a disease. tough stuff, but not for me

 

[Em1]

I learned how to understand Chinese-style English... about half the people in my lab are foreign

 

[funshine]

i learned mostly that i don't want to go into research. which was a very useful thing to learn, because otherwise i might have applied md-phd and that would have been a huge mistake. but i also now have far more respect for the people who are doing research, because it is hard and yet so important. people spend their lives figuring out the smallest details with little recognition and much difficulty getting grants, and somewhere down the line it is probably going to help find a cure for a disease. tough stuff, but not for me

exactly. I have so much respect for the grad students at my institution....they're all very bright and very motivated. I think you have to love what you're doing in order to "make it" in research. I hated my senior thesis project, but my lab was probably the friendliest, funnest lab to be in, and it was because we had THE BEST gang of grad students to hang out with. Good times, seriously. If I had to go by atmosphere alone, I would totally pick grad school over med school.

Oh, my PI was a gigantic douchebag though...in a way, that contributed to the solidarity within my lab.

Other stuff I learned: Don't do your experiments past 10pm! I was in lab past 2am, practically fell asleep, and ended up centrifuging glass tubes and they all broke. I also dropped a whole box of microscope slides. I felt awful, but at least it was during the night so the only people who had to know about it were the other 2 undergrads...and they were half-conscious too.

 

[omgwtfbbq?]

I learned that safety doesn't come first... it comes last. There was always white mystery powder left on the weights, there was a chemical film 3 inches thick on the tables, and people ate food in the office that was connected to the lab with an open partition. Someone even mouth pipeted! (but at least that didn't expose anyone else)

I learned that research techs who are pissed off that they have to train you in a new technique at the request of the research advisor during your first year will fail to tell you about the dangers of certain things because they can't be bothered

I learned to double glove after a few weeks no matter what.

I learned that there are few things cooler than writing your name in ethanol on an e-coli contaminated lab station and lighting it on fire.

 

[Rockhouse]

I learned that safety doesn't come first... it comes last. There was always white mystery powder left on the weights, there was a chemical film 3 inches thick on the tables, and people ate food in the office that was connected to the lab with an open partition. Someone even mouth pipeted! (but at least that didn't expose anyone else)

I watched a previous grad student from my lab come in with her child. In order to occupy the little tike while she was catching up with some collegues, she grabed a disposible pipet from my lab station and gave it to the kid to CHEW ON! I mean, this stuff is supposed to be sterile, but who in the hell knows what I might have accidently dropped into those things at 2am one morning and quitely cleaned up. Definately, safety, not #1

 

[BozoSparky]

I'm not talking about anything science specific at all. So I'll start with my own example. I learned that PhD students often times don't know $#!t, but love to flaunt their supposed knowledge in front of undergraduates. However, when pressed to the issue in front of mentors, they mumble and provide a lot of excuses. I'm not going to lie, this is partly a way for me to b!tch about a PhD student I work with... because recently she informed me that liquid nitrogen is really just dry ice with some other things mixed in it. I mean seriously, how do some of these people get accepted into graduate programs?

I have found that this happens in medicine, too. I think it's just normal behavior for some types of people, not limited to graduate students.

Give you mentor a table of the elements!

 

[ND2005]

i learned mostly that i don't want to go into research. which was a very useful thing to learn, because otherwise i might have applied md-phd and that would have been a huge mistake. but i also now have far more respect for the people who are doing research, because it is hard and yet so important. people spend their lives figuring out the smallest details with little recognition and much difficulty getting grants, and somewhere down the line it is probably going to help find a cure for a disease. tough stuff, but not for me

Seconded.

And I actually said this in an interview, and got a GREAT reaction. The interviewer thanked me for being honest about it, and said that that's one of the big reasons he personally likes students to have research experience -- so they can figure out whether or not it's for them.

 

[happydays]

I learned that there are other cool nerds in the world (besides myself).

 

[Rogue Synapse]

I had a terrific experience with research. I learned that PhD kids can be just as nerdy and overworked as med students (sometimes more so), and that the intellectual process of answering a scientific question that you actually care about (assuming you're in a lab that you really like) is incredibly rewarding. Whether or not research is in my future, it definitely gave me a set of mental tools that I know I'll draw on as a physician. Most importantly, my research really turned me on to neuroscience - I'm a fan of the brain for life now.

 

[Thundrstorm]

I learned that:

-you should never lose a pregnant mouse or one with an Alzheimer's or Parkinson's lesion (fortunately, these can be attributed to other lab members, not me).

-that research was definitely part of my calling in life.

-that the daily grind can be tedious, but the thrill of positive results can't be beat.

-that it is not a 9-5, 40hr/wk job.

-that there are good PIs, great PIs, and awful PIs.

-that it is difficult to ask the right questions, and even more difficult to get an actual answer.

-that it involves a lot of reading and acquiring background knowledge.

 

[nekrogg]

I learned how to understand Chinese-style English... about half the people in my lab are foreign

LOL me too! although im around it all the time (im asian)


i learned many many phds are very very lazy

 

[jhrugger]

that science is not cut and dry, black and white. All conclusions derived by the scientific method are inherently flawed, imperfect, and are valid only in the statistical framework of probabillity. This is not to say that scientific "knowledge" cannot be useful; however, what is in a paper or textbook is always subject to change and open to interpretation.

jhrugger

 

[PhillyMD2006]

that science is not cut and dry, black and white. All conclusions derived by the scientific method are inherently flawed, imperfect, and are valid only in the statistical framework of probabillity. This is not to say that scientific "knowledge" cannot be useful; however, what is in a paper or textbook is always subject to change and open to interpretation.

jhrugger

well put.

 

[potato51]

I learned how 'easy' we straight MD students are going to have it compared to graduate PhD students.

 

[don juan]

I learned that 99% of the research out there is not worth the massive amounts of waste that it produces.

 

[phosphorus pet]

I learned how 'easy' we straight MD students are going to have it compared to graduate PhD students.

agreed

 

[Labslave]

I learned how 'easy' we straight MD students are going to have it compared to graduate PhD students.

I totally agree. Not only is getting a PhD more intellectually challenging than getting an MD (very little rote memorization yet tons of thinking, crisis management, and problem solving), but they also have to work insane hours throughout their education. And the crazy thing is that they're not gauranteed anything for all their hard work!

 

[moranwoods]

I've learned that 90% of academic research is boring and extremely inefficient. At least clinically irrelivant work on lipid bilayer properties.

I've learned that if you're scared of a single drop of ethanol and cholroform, like a coworker of mine, you should probably not work in a lab where you are surrounded by ethanol and cholroforom.

I've learned that it is scary working around high-pressure nitrogen tanks with no training.

I've learned that if you are a post doc, asking the tech to locate pipettes sitting right in front of your face is much easier that looking yourself.

I've learned from my ethanol-phobic coworker that you can actually spend 8 hours per day playing solitare and IMing friends.

Most importantly, I've learned that reading SDN all day is an effective time killer.

 

[ND2005]

I've learned that 90% of academic research is boring and extremely inefficient. At least clinically irrelivant work on lipid bilayer properties.

Agreed.

I've learned that if you're scared of a single drop of ethanol and cholroform, like a coworker of mine, you should probably not work in a lab where you are surrounded by ethanol and cholroforom.

I've learned a similar principle applies to working with P32 and Meningitits. Germophobes should not work in ID labs.

I've learned that if you are a post doc, asking the tech to locate pipettes sitting right in front of your face is much easier that looking yourself.

Ha. This morning one of my post-docs asked me where the cryo-vials are. I've used them once; he's used them about a million times.

I've learned from my ethanol-phobic coworker that you can actually spend 8 hours per day playing solitare and IMing friends.

Most importantly, I've learned that reading SDN all day is an effective time killer.

I've learned that you can only entertain yourself on the internet for so long each day before your brain starts to rot away.

 

[moranwoods]

Completely do not agree with those who believe we're going to have it easier than PhD candidates.

Those that I work with do spend lots of time in the lab, but that is ALL they do. No classes, no clerkships, no Step 1, no Step 2, no Step 3, no match day, no residency. Plus, nearly all are getting PAID to obtain their advanced degree! The grad students in my lab make more than me, and I already have 2 degrees!

I understand the place of academic research in our institutions of higher education. I also know that being a lab rat is most definitely not my cup of tea.

However, I do not feel sorry for grad students. Their path to being called "doctor" is much smoother than ours.

 

[temmie]

In my apprximately 2 y ears of doing research, i learnt that i dont belong there, that i wont miss it, that i really really love to relate to humans vs a bunch of cells and that i cant wait to graduate this quarter so i can stop doing research. that's my experience. Med school and public health, here i come

 

[BozoSparky]

I learned that 99% of the research out there is not worth the massive amounts of waste that it produces.

how could it be more efficient? i wish it were more efficient, too.

however, i do think it's worth the so-called "waste."

i agree that research does not always result in a positive outcome, but that's why it's called research. you DON'T know the answer.

all the things we will memorize in medical school and shoot out of our mouths like experts were investigated the hard way by someone.

 

[dr.z]

I'm not talking about anything science specific at all. So I'll start with my own example. I learned that PhD students often times don't know $#!t, but love to flaunt their supposed knowledge in front of undergraduates. However, when pressed to the issue in front of mentors, they mumble and provide a lot of excuses. I'm not going to lie, this is partly a way for me to b!tch about a PhD student I work with... because recently she informed me that liquid nitrogen is really just dry ice with some other things mixed in it. I mean seriously, how do some of these people get accepted into graduate programs?

I've seen lots of unqualified students in the Ph.D program that I was in. I'm sure you'll see some of those in med school too.

 

[Thundrstorm]

Completely do not agree with those who believe we're going to have it easier than PhD candidates.

Those that I work with do spend lots of time in the lab, but that is ALL they do. No classes, no clerkships, no Step 1, no Step 2, no Step 3, no match day, no residency. Plus, nearly all are getting PAID to obtain their advanced degree! The grad students in my lab make more than me, and I already have 2 degrees!

I understand the place of academic research in our institutions of higher education. I also know that being a lab rat is most definitely not my cup of tea.

However, I do not feel sorry for grad students. Their path to being called "doctor" is much smoother than ours.

uhhhh. they do have classes. And a qualifying exam, and a thesis defense, and publications, and post-docs. I'm not debating the relative difficulty (I haven't done either one yet), but lab work is not ALL PhD students are required to do.

 

[moranwoods]

Yeah, grad students have coursework totalling 30-40 credit hours. Then they choose a PI and get into their lab work. I know because I have a graduate degree and currently work in a lab with 2 PhD candidates who haven't taken a class in years. Actually, ALL PhD students in the medical sciences are required to do a significant amount of lab work in order to eventually write and defend a thesis.

I can't speak to the difficulty of med school yet, but I can say that the PhD students I am around on a daily basis work hard, but lead a relatively laid back lifestyle. If you believe that it's a more difficult road, let's take it to the Allopathic thread and see what some actual med students think.

Back to the original topic: I've learned that it does not suck to get paid to go to school.

 

[swifty100850]

i learned how hard it is for graduate students. working 65-hour weeks, no vacations, and isolation. they're doing all this work just for a publication which happens ~once a year (if lucky).

 

[BozoSparky]

Completely do not agree with those who believe we're going to have it easier than PhD candidates.

Those that I work with do spend lots of time in the lab, but that is ALL they do. No classes, no clerkships, no Step 1, no Step 2, no Step 3, no match day, no residency. Plus, nearly all are getting PAID to obtain their advanced degree! The grad students in my lab make more than me, and I already have 2 degrees!

I understand the place of academic research in our institutions of higher education. I also know that being a lab rat is most definitely not my cup of tea.

However, I do not feel sorry for grad students. Their path to being called "doctor" is much smoother than ours.

Yep, the PhD is a walk in the park! 🙄

 

[moranwoods]

i learned how hard it is for graduate students. working 65-hour weeks, no vacations, and isolation. they're doing all this work just for a publication which happens ~once a year (if lucky).

Sniffle, sniffle ...

Wipe tears away ...

Sniffle, sniffle.

 

[don juan]

how could it be more efficient? i wish it were more efficient, too.

however, i do think it's worth the so-called "waste."

i agree that research does not always result in a positive outcome, but that's why it's called research. you DON'T know the answer.

all the things we will memorize in medical school and shoot out of our mouths like experts were investigated the hard way by someone.

I said 99%; the stuff we shoot out of our mouths comes from the 1% of good research. I just think the NIH needs to be more careful of what projects they fund. Much of the money that goes to research projects would better serve society going to promoting public health and lifestyle changes.

 

[BozoSparky]

I said 99%; the stuff we shoot out of our mouths comes from the 1% of good research. I just think the NIH needs to be more careful of what projects they fund. Much of the money that goes to research projects would better serve society going to promoting public health and lifestyle changes.

yeah, the NSF and NIH could definitely use a better filter, i agree. i was just trying to point out that "good research" doesn't have to result in a breakthrough that ends up in a textbook. finding out what doesn't work is also a huge part of the battle. but - i think you are calling efficient research "good" research, so i see your point and it's a good one.

sparky

 

[moranwoods]

Yep, the PhD is a walk in the park! 🙄

I'd love to continue this debate, but I have to do some actual lab-rat work.

Then there's the weekly coffee and cookie break organized for the grad students. Followed by a stimulating discussion on who's most likely to win American Idol. Oh, don't forget to throw in a couple dozen games of solitare to round out the day.

It is a rigorous life here in research.

 

[BozoSparky]

I'd love to continue this debate, but I have to do some actual lab-rat work.

Then there's the weekly coffee and cookie break organized for the grad students. Followed by a stimulating discussion on who's most likely to win American Idol. Oh, don't forget to throw in a couple dozen games of solitare to round out the day.

It is a rigorous life here in research.

wow, it sounds like you are carrying the lab! 👍

 

[thehero5000]

I learned that there are three types of grad students: the really smart ones who have no life, the really dumb ones who shouldn't be allowed to handle chemicals, and the really smart ones who have a life but have to smoke, drink, and imbibe endless amounts of caffeine to stay sane while staring at a lab bench for about 13 hours a day. The third type is cool. I used to smoke herb with a guy like that in my lab, right before he sat down to do nuclear spin physics (he was a solid state NMR biophysicist).

 

[don juan]

yeah, the NSF and NIH could definitely use a better filter, i agree. i was just trying to point out that "good research" doesn't have to result in a breakthrough that ends up in a textbook. finding out what doesn't work is also a huge part of the battle. but - i think you are calling efficient research "good" research, so i see your point and it's a good one.

sparky

I think all research should at least aspire to result in a breakthrough. I don't believe in using public money to fund research that is not relevent to human health. There are so many labs that have gone 10 years producing very little and still retain funding. I know it's difficult to predict what projects are worthwhile and what projects aren't but it's surprising to me the number of highly funded scientists out there who concern themselves with finding answers to obscure question that have very little public relevence.

 

[drmota]

i learned that all indian people are smart and talk funny. and that research blows
-mota

 

[beefballs]

I learned that really hate research

 

[RunnerMD]

I think all research should at least aspire to result in a breakthrough. I don't believe in using public money to fund research that is not relevent to human health. There are so many labs that have gone 10 years producing very little and still retain funding. I know it's difficult to predict what projects are worthwhile and what projects aren't but it's surprising to me the number of highly funded scientists out there who concern themselves with finding answers to obscure question that have very little public relevence.

It always amazes me when I read about the funding for certain studies (in the medical field and just in general) that investigates something that seems like common sense. For instance, do we REALLy need to spend $10 million on a study to tell us that people who eat a hamburger and drink a 6 pack everyday are (on average) less healthy than the person who eats a salad and works out 5 days a week? <--just a generic example

It gets me so annoyed--I'm feel like saying, "HEY! For about 1/100 of the cost, I could have told you that! Why don't you use that money to pay for my med school?"

 

[Saluki]

I learned that the grad students aren't motivated by some great noble aspiration of curing cancer.... The answers to "Why are you getting a PhD in Chemistry?"

"I didn't do so hot on the MCAT and I thought it would increase my chances of getting in"

"It's hard getting into humanities grad programs from China"

"They gave me a bigger stipend than the agriculture department"

"I think I'll be able to make more money in industry with a grad degree"

They're all smart and really nice... I guess I'd just imagined research to be more romantic than it turned out to be...

 

[BozoSparky]

I learned that the grad students aren't motivated by some great noble aspiration of curing cancer.... The answers to "Why are you getting a PhD in Chemistry?"

"I didn't do so hot on the MCAT and I thought it would increase my chances of getting in"

"It's hard getting into humanities grad programs from China"

"They gave me a bigger stipend than the agriculture department"

"I think I'll be able to make more money in industry with a grad degree"

They're all smart and really nice... I guess I'd just imagined research to be more romantic than it turned out to be...

graduate students are not as pathetic as you make them out to be.
medicine may not turn out to be as romantic as you think, either...

 

[Saluki]

graduate students are not as pathetic as you make them out to be.
medicine may not turn out to be as romantic as you think, either...

I never said or implied they were pathetic. They're really smart and talented researchers, and they were incredibly nice to me- they just weren't in it to save the world. That's not pathetic....

And I have no doubt medicine won't be any more romantic than labwork... All I was saying was that it was different from what I'd imagined it to be- that doesn't meant I'm saying it's bad or the people I worked with were pathetic.

 

[cadilakgrl]

I've learned that a research career is a really hard road to follow. The percentage of grants that are being funded by the NIH is significantly lower than previous years. Even if you do good research is is hard to get funded. My PI and many others I've encountered are doing exciting, disease-based research, but are having trouble getting grants funded and are having to down-size their labs or apply for grants outside the NIH. The politics are fierce and researchers in small fields form friends and enemies which can highly impact your grants and publications, since your peers are on the review committees and journal editors. Most grad students I've met at my university seem somewhat oblivious to the reality of research. They are doing it because it is fun and exciting, but too many of them don't seem to take it seriously. The job outlook for grad students is pretty poor right now. There is a surplus of students and postdocs for very few faculty positions. Many people go outside academia after they realize how tough it is to get a job. You really have to love research, not care about money, work super hard, network, and ultimately hope you can do good science.

I think one of the main differences between medicine and research, is that you are pretty much guaranteed a job when you get your MD. PhDs have a lot less job security and are always having to worry where the money is coming from to fund their lab (unless you are a very established researcher who has HHMI funding or a tenured profesor position- but you still have to struggle to get to this point). I love research, but I wish the climate wasn't so dismal. In a way I'm jealous of the job security and lifestyle my fellow MD classmates will have. But ultimately I'm trying to do what makes me the most happy- I love research and helping patients. I'm not in it for the money and I hope I'm cut out to face the difficulties of research. It's a tough road.

 

[BozoSparky]

I never said or implied they were pathetic. They're really smart and talented researchers, and they were incredibly nice to me- they just weren't in it to save the world. That's not pathetic....

And I have no doubt medicine won't be any more romantic than labwork... All I was saying was that it was different from what I'd imagined it to be- that doesn't meant I'm saying it's bad or the people I worked with were pathetic.

Hi Saluki,

I tend to get a little defensive when it comes to graduate school, so I apologize, especially for implying you are naive! You have a very good point.

Sparky

 

[boilerbeast]

i learned what kind of coffee my PI and other higher-ups enjoyed. coffee-getting is crucial to the scientific process.

and I can negotiate a finicky xerox machine like no other.

 

[Saluki]

Hi Saluki,

I tend to get a little defensive when it comes to graduate school, so I apologize, especially for implying you are naive! You have a very good point.

Sparky

It's OK... I know what you mean.... I think that a lot of pre-meds tend to get this idea in their head that everyone would do med school if they could, but so many smart people just aren't interested at all... And I'm so happy they aren't- things are competitive enough already 😛

 

[MaryWrathers]

I learned that a professor who is co-owner of your poster (2nd author) can share your template to his other student and tell her to plug and chug her information into the template that you created. I showed up at the research conference and found that she and I had the exact same posters (colors, structure, text box layout, box headings, personalized bullets, etc.). I personalized my template to meet the needs of my poster - to make it easily read/seen and aesthetically pleasing to spectators. She did not personalize hers as instructed by the professor because she was in a time crunch. I developed my poster in 1 month, she in 4 days using my "pretty" model/template. Did I know any of this beforehand? No. On the day of the research conference, yes whilst, push-pinning my poster.

 

[Sondra]

i learned mostly that i don't want to go into research. which was a very useful thing to learn, because otherwise i might have applied md-phd and that would have been a huge mistake. but i also now have far more respect for the people who are doing research, because it is hard and yet so important. people spend their lives figuring out the smallest details with little recognition and much difficulty getting grants, and somewhere down the line it is probably going to help find a cure for a disease. tough stuff, but not for me

Same here. I am not cut out for research. It was a lot of work and little reward. I did not enjoy myself. I will probably give research one more try before i definitely decide it is not for me.

 

[cyclohexanol]

After 2 years in enzymology that:

1) enzymes are a tricky bunch, especially when quantifying kinase activity from 2 dozen samples that are in various stages of the cell cycle

2) my schedule revolves around plates full of cells, and they like to do things at around 3:30am (cell cycle analysis)

3) there are a lot of people that shouldn't be in labs

4) the REAL way to make money, is to make and sell lab equipment... you need a platform for your shaker? NO PROBLEM, here is a piece of sheet metal with a rubber coating... that will be $100 kthx. Oh wait, you need a shaker? No problem, here is an electric drill motor mounted to a $2 piece of iron with some cheap dials and that spiffy $100 sheet metal platform... that will be $1500 kthx

5) working with P32 is lame, use Pro-Q Diamond phosphostain if you are just doing kinase assays in a gel format

6) $300k pieces of equipment break only when you really really need them

7) i really don't want to be a PhD

After all that however, I know that I've learned more about science and doing science in those 2 years than I have anywhere else. I know now that I don't want to do it for a living, but it was fun and exciting while the ride lasted. I had 3 of my own projects though, YMMV.

 

[keedz]

In the time I've done research I've learned:

1. It's not for me, I need to deal with people and not 11 different types of cells.

2. Even though the hours are long, you can miss work if you have a 'long incubation time' or 'my cells are contaminated and I can't set up my expt".

3. That you can time your entry into a lab so well that you end up on a paper that's been in the works for months, just because you did one expt...after being there for only 4 months (a coworker of mine).

4. That women can be catty, but men have HUGE egos in research- "I've been doing this for over ten years, I'm experienced"

5. That running a PCR the first time is neat, after 25 you want to kill yourself.

6. That you need to add the EXACT amount of ammonium persulfate to an SDS-PAGE gel or you'll be reworking the protocol for months.

7. That things don't stress you out as much in the lab when you've already gotten into med school.

 

[coffeebythelake]

it takes 3 times longer to get things done than expected.